Author Topic: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels  (Read 15321 times)

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Offline Bob Marino

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A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« on: March 24, 2013, 10:19 PM »
Started from another topic. This is actually runhard ' s question.



Dan,

  I would offer these sugestions/advice and this may sound crazy coming from a Festool dealer. That advice is get a block plane and a smoothing plane, rather get a good block plane and a good smoothing plane - Lee Valley, Lie Nielson make excellent ones.  Perhaps a really fine rasp. Hands tools are quite essential, and often times even more "fun" to use than power tools. Don't think you need every Festool tool to make furniture.  It's a hobby - enjoy the show.

  Bob





EDIT> Topic management
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 12:56 PM by SRSemenza »
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Offline Tim Raleigh

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PLANE
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 10:54 PM »
Dan,
  I would offer these sugestions/advice and this may sound crazy coming from a Festool dealer. That advice is get a block plane and a smoothing plane, rather get a good block plane and a good smoothing plane - Lee Valley, Lie Nielson make excellent ones.  Perhaps a really fine rasp. Hands tools are quite essential, and often times even more "fun" to use than power tools. Don't think you need every Festool tool to make furniture.  It's a hobby - enjoy the show.

I agree. You might want to consider a set of   ]Mortising chisels.

Offline Bob Marino

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PLANE
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 10:57 PM »
Dan,
  I would offer these sugestions/advice and this may sound crazy coming from a Festool dealer. That advice is get a block plane and a smoothing plane, rather get a good block plane and a good smoothing plane - Lee Valley, Lie Nielson make excellent ones.  Perhaps a really fine rasp. Hands tools are quite essential, and often times even more "fun" to use than power tools. Don't think you need every Festool tool to make furniture.  It's a hobby - enjoy the show.

I agree. You might want to consider a set of  ]Mortising chisels.
[/quote]
 Yep, chisels - another essential tool.
Bob
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 06:34 PM by Peter Halle »
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Offline Runhard

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PLANE
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 11:38 PM »
Dan,
  I would offer these sugestions/advice and this may sound crazy coming from a Festool dealer. That advice is get a block plane and a smoothing plane, rather get a good block plane and a good smoothing plane - Lee Valley, Lie Nielson make excellent ones.  Perhaps a really fine rasp. Hands tools are quite essential, and often times even more "fun" to use than power tools. Don't think you need every Festool tool to make furniture.  It's a hobby - enjoy the show.

I agree. You might want to consider a set of  ]Mortising chisels.

 Yep, chisels - another essential tool.
Bob
  [/quote]

This might need to be moved into the "hand tool" thread, but:

Should I get the standard or low angle http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=60_5

Or regular block plane? http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1221

Which smoothing plane: LN or LV? 4 or 4-1/2?

For hand work I already have:
Blue Spruce- 5 piece bench chisel set, mallet, large and small marking knives, and marking gauge.
LN- dovetail and crosscut saws, dovetail marker and card scrapers.
Knew Concepts- 5" fretsaw.
Veritas- (2)marking gauges and MKII honeing guide.
BCTW- (2)Japanese pull saws and 2 saw blades that I need to build handles for (I bought what I could during their clearance sale.)
Starrett- 6" combination square and 4" double square.
DMT-sharpening stones and leather strop.

I'm thinking about getting some more chisels, some that aren't as nice but will still do a good job (I don't want to damage my Blue Spruce ones  [unsure]) and some specialty chisels. What are more useful, fishtail or skew?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 10:28 PM by SRSemenza »
Daniel

Offline Bob Marino

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PLANE
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 11:56 PM »
Dan,
  I would offer these sugestions/advice and this may sound crazy coming from a Festool dealer. That advice is get a block plane and a smoothing plane, rather get a good block plane and a good smoothing plane - Lee Valley, Lie Nielson make excellent ones.  Perhaps a really fine rasp. Hands tools are quite essential, and often times even more "fun" to use than power tools. Don't think you need every Festool tool to make furniture.  It's a hobby - enjoy the show.

I agree. You might want to consider a set of  ]Mortising chisels.

 Yep, chisels - another essential tool.
Bob
 
 

This might need to be moved into the "hand tool" thread, but:

Should I get the standard or low angle http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=60_5

Or regular block plane? http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1221

Which smoothing plane: LN or LV? 4 or 4-1/2?

For hand work I already have:
Blue Spruce- 5 piece bench chisel set, mallet, large and small marking knives, and marking gauge.
LN- dovetail and crosscut saws, dovetail marker and card scrapers.
Knew Concepts- 5" fretsaw.
Veritas- (2)marking gauges and MKII honeing guide.
BCTW- (2)Japanese pull saws and 2 saw blades that I need to build handles for (I bought what I could during their clearance sale.)
Starrett- 6" combination square and 4" double square.
DMT-sharpening stones and leather strop.

I'm thinking about getting some more chisels, some that aren't as nice but will still do a good job (I don't want to damage my Blue Spruce ones  [unsure]) and some specialty chisels. What are more useful, fishtail or skew?
[/quote]


This may well be bettered answered in the Hand Tool section, but I would get an adjustable block plane rather than the one you linked to.
Not qualified regards low angle vs standard angle, but you can always call LV and LN.

 Good chisels are meant to be used and can take the pounding.
Actually, except for a couple of planes, you have a nice assortment of hand tools.
Same admonition about hand tools that I mentioned about Festool tools  - you don't need every hand tool
To make furniture. I understand the temptation - over the years I bought more tools than I actually used.

Bob
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 10:29 PM by SRSemenza »
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Offline RL

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PLANE
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 12:13 AM »
I have the Lie Nielsen bronze low angle block plane. Bought an extra blade for it which I sharpen at 35 degrees, making it a standard angle block plane too. Changing blades takes less than 5 seconds.

I also have the Veritas adjustable low angle block plane. Rarely take it out of the tool cabinet to be honest. It's just too heavy for me to use as a block plane. Jack of all trades, master of none. If it's the first and last plane you'll buy, then it's excellent. Otherwise, there are better, more specific options.

I prefer the 4 to a 4 1/2, but then again I also use a 5 1/2 a lot. I feel like a 4 1/2 is an average of the two without being as good as either.

P.S. I'm deeply envious of your Blue Spruce collection.

Offline Tim Raleigh

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PLANE
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 01:40 PM »
I do have some hand tools, but no planes yet. I decided not to buy any machinery until I move and can have a decent shop (that's not in a basement.)  

Daniel:
While you can go nuts with hand tools, you really should have one, even if it's a cheap Stanley Adjustable Block Plane . I have (this) one in my tool box and when it's sharp it works well.

My favorite block plane is the LN 601/2 low angle block plane. Beautiful tool to use on end grain.
If you like big planes I think the L-N 51/2 smoothing plane is the one to get but for all round usefulness (jointing and planing) the L-N Low angle Jack plane is a workhorse.

I just noticed that my post for the Ray Isles Mortising chisels didn't include a link.
Tim

Offline Runhard

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PLANE
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 01:47 PM »
I do have some hand tools, but no planes yet. I decided not to buy any machinery until I move and can have a decent shop (that's not in a basement.)  

Daniel:
While you can go nuts with hand tools, you really should have one, even if it's a cheap Stanley Adjustable Block Plane . I have (this) one in my tool box and when it's sharp it works well.

My favorite block plane is the LN 601/2 low angle block plane. Beautiful tool to use on end grain.
If you like big planes I think the L-N 51/2 smoothing plane is the one to get but for all round usefulness (jointing and planing) the L-N Low angle Jack plane is a workhorse.

I just noticed that my post for the Ray Isles Mortising chisels didn't include a link.
Tim

Thanks for the link.

I have never owned a plane or really used one before. Too many choices and decisions  [eek]
Daniel

Offline Bob Marino

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PLANE
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 01:54 PM »
Dan,

You like quality tools.  I would echo what Tim said about the LN
Low angle block. It is very highly regarded.

Bob
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Offline Tim Raleigh

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PLANE
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 02:00 PM »
I have never owned a plane or really used one before. Too many choices and decisions  [eek]

Start with the L-N low angle block plane you won't be disappointed.
Veritas and Stanley Bailey also make very nice high end block planes, I just have never used them.
It makes the decision easy and you can go from there.
You will wonder why you never got one before.
It has a lot of uses from chamfering edges to cleaning up end grain.
Tim

Offline regdor1999

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PLANE
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 02:01 PM »
This is what I'm thinking about ordering today: Festool MFS 400, LR32 set and FS1400/2-LR32 rail. Lie-Nielsen "The Plane set" (low angle jack plane, 4-1/2 smoothing plane and low angle/adjustable mouth block plane.) Veritas router plane and fence.

What do you think?

Daniel

That is great first set of planes.  I have the the Lie-Nielsen's mentioned (the 4 instead of the 4 1/2 smoother, and the monster #8), and they are wonderful tools.  The quality is great.  If you decide to sell them later, they also retain their value very well.  The Veritas router plane is excellent too (as is LN's).  If you get one of the small router planes, go with the LN instead of the Veritas:  The shaft is square rather than round, helping to keep the blade straight.  I had the Veriras small one, and didn't like how the blade could move.  For the large size, either one is a good choice.  Enjoy!

Offline Tim Raleigh

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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 02:12 PM »
If you get one of the small router planes, go with the LN instead of the Veritas:  The shaft is square rather than round, helping to keep the blade straight.  I had the Veritas small one, and didn't like how the blade could move.  For the large size, either one is a good choice.  Enjoy!

Agreed.
Tim

Offline RL

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PLANE
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 02:46 PM »
This is what I'm thinking about ordering today: Festool MFS 400, LR32 set and FS1400/2-LR32 rail. Lie-Nielsen "The Plane set" (low angle jack plane, 4-1/2 smoothing plane and low angle/adjustable mouth block plane.) Veritas router plane and fence.

What do you think?

Daniel

Ln now make a jack rabbet plane- go for that instead of the jack. Its exactly the same as the jack but it doubles as a rabbet Plane.

I see I'm clearly in a minority in that I prefer non adjustable block planes!

#4 or 4 1/2 is down to personal preference.

Offline Runhard

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PLANE
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 02:55 PM »
This is what I'm thinking about ordering today: Festool MFS 400, LR32 set and FS1400/2-LR32 rail. Lie-Nielsen "The Plane set" (low angle jack plane, 4-1/2 smoothing plane and low angle/adjustable mouth block plane.) Veritas router plane and fence.

What do you think?

Daniel

That is great first set of planes.  I have the the Lie-Nielsen's mentioned (the 4 instead of the 4 1/2 smoother, and the monster #8), and they are wonderful tools.  The quality is great.  If you decide to sell them later, they also retain their value very well.  The Veritas router plane is excellent too (as is LN's).  If you get one of the small router planes, go with the LN instead of the Veritas:  The shaft is square rather than round, helping to keep the blade straight.  I had the Veriras small one, and didn't like how the blade could move.  For the large size, either one is a good choice.  Enjoy!

Open or closed throat router plane?
Daniel

Offline ScotF

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PLANE
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 03:05 PM »
Daniel,

Lots of good advice here...I have a good assortment of hand tools and my favorite plane by far is the little LN 102 block plane -- this is small but very capable.  It is great for all kinds of things you would need a block plane for and it fits in an apron pocket.  To me it just feels so great in the hand.  I own the adjustable one too and honestly use the smaller 102 15 - 20 times more than the latter.  The Low-Angle Jack or the Rabbet Plane as Richard mentions is great at so many tasks and you might find that you can do most of your work with just those two.  One thing that makes low-angle planes so nice is their versatility -- different angles on the plane can dramatically change performance for soft-wood, hard-wood and tricky grain.  Add a toothed blade or one with a camber and you can tackle lots of work.  It makes a very nice smoother too (although I think that the 4 1/2 is pure perfection in this category).

Scot

Offline Runhard

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A few questions
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 03:24 PM »
I have a topic on the festool tools and accessories page, but it has turned into a mostly hand tool discussion, so I will try to pick it up here.

I'm probably going with LN over LV.

What is better an open or closed throat router plane?
What is more useful, skew or fishtail chisels?
What is the best block plane, low angle, standard, adjustable,...?
Smoothing plane, 4, 4-1/2, 5,...?
Low angle jack or low angle jack rabbet?

I do not have the option to try any of these out in person.

Thanks,

Daniel
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 04:14 PM by Runhard »
Daniel

Offline ScotF

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Re: A few questions
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 03:37 PM »
I have a topic on the festool tools and accessories page, but it has turned into a mostly hand tool discussion, so I will try to pick it up here.

I'm probably going with LN over LV.

What is better an open or closed throat router plane?
What is more useful, or fishtail chisels?
What is the best block plane, low angle, standard, adjustable,...?
Smoothing plane, 4, 4-1/2, 5,...?
Low angle jack or low angle jack rabbet?

I do not have the option to try any of these out in person.

Thanks,

Daniel


Hi Daniel,

The router plane issue really comes down to stability when working on edges (where the wood might go into the space) verses visibility.  Closed is better for edge stability and open is better for visibility.  Christopher Schwartz wrote about this in is Blog at some point if memory serves and I think that PW might have written an article too.

I prefer low angle block planes and as I mentioned, love the LN 102.  Does everything I have asked of a block plane.

Smoother -- 4 1/2 -- it is bigger and weighs more, but wider means more efficient and the weight can help you push through tough grain.

Jack - the low-angle is awesome -- again, so useful for so many different tasks.  Not as wide as the 5 1/2, but more versatile IMHO with the different blades and sharpening you can do on it.

For chisels, I guess it depends on what you want to do with them...I have a pretty complete bench chisel set and a mortise chisel and that is it -- I have done lots of work with these from hand-cut dovetails to squaring mortises to trimming tenons.  Some chisels get specialized and excel at certain tasks. 

Hope this helps.

Scot

Offline JayStPeter

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Re: A few questions
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 04:03 PM »
I have a topic on the festool tools and accessories page, but it has turned into a mostly hand tool discussion, so I will try to pick it up here.

I'm probably going with LN over LV.

What is better an open or closed throat router plane?
What is more useful, or fishtail chisels?
What is the best block plane, low angle, standard, adjustable,...?
Smoothing plane, 4, 4-1/2, 5,...?
Low angle jack or low angle jack rabbet?

I do not have the option to try any of these out in person.

Thanks,

Daniel

I think the answer to all is "it depends".  But ...

What is better an open or closed throat router plane?
Reviewers tended to pick the LV over the LN because it was closed.  LN now has both.  There are certain situations where each is desired.  Search the pop woodworking blog, I think there is some good info on the differences in the reviews of the LN closed throat.

What is more useful, or fishtail chisels?
Don't know what the thing before "or" is, but I'll say chances are the answer is not fish tail.

What is the best block plane, low angle, standard, adjustable,...?
The most popular is low angle with adjustable throat.  I have the LV version and the LN rabbeting block, which is also low angle.  Can't answer why I'd want a standard angle as I haven't found any issues with what I have.

Smoothing plane, 4, 4-1/2, 5,...?
I think the most versatile as a smoother is a 4.  It is best for small pieces and works for larger.  The others are larger, can be harder to push.  But, they are heavier which helps in some situations.  I'd say LN #4 bronze.

Low angle jack or low angle jack rabbet?
I'd say it's a pretty unusual situation when you need a rabbet plane that large.  I used to be a huge proponent of low angle planes over standard.  But my default plane has become my #5 over the low angle jack.  I recently got a #4 to see if I prefer it over my low angle smoother.

Also, I wouldn't discount LV entirely.  I like their low angle stuff equal to LN at a lesser cost.  Handles are a little "rougher" feeling (for lack of a better description), but they work equally well.  I really like my LN chisels, but the new technology LV ones are the new rage.  I'm hoping to pick up a large one of those as my largest LN is 3/4".  As I said, read the reviews on router planes, I don't have one yet but am leaning toward the LV.  I was planning a back-to-back comparison, but missed the Baltimore woodworking show this year.
Jay St. Peter

Offline JayStPeter

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Re: A few questions
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 04:46 PM »
Daniel,

There's a pretty big learning curve to hand tools.  I suspect you'll be frustrated if you go spend the $1K to get all the stuff you're talking about here.  I'd recommend getting regular bench chisels and a block plane first (LN rabbeting block is a good first plane IMO).  Also, some sort of sharpening method is crucial to being able to use this stuff and where much of the frustration lies.  You're likely to spend lots of time and money on sharpening until you find something you're willing to stick with.  I think most of us stick with a method because we're tired of buying different sharpening equipment and figure one of them will have to do.  Ask 10 woodworkers what the best sharpening method is and you'll get 15 answers.

You're used to doing things a different way and it takes time to come around to realizing when it is easier to use a hand tool over a power tool, and be willing to experiment to figure that out.  I bought a bunch of handplanes and didn't actually use them much for several years.  When I did I often had bad results and ruined some wood.  I was pretty aggrivated I chose to buy that stuff over other equipment for a long time until I got over the learning curves and had occasion to use them on projects to build my skills up rather than jump into trying to smooth an exotic panel ... what the heck, the one I used at the WW show made it glass smooth and mine just shreds it ... well, I'll just get out a sander to fix this.

What I do now is plan up front.  If I'm building something where it makes sense, I'll decide to try a new technique prior to building it, make sure I get the tools I want, get them tuned and practice a bit.  Buying tools and having them lay around while you really need something else is very frustrating.  For example, if you plan to make a dining table using dominoes, your new router and rabbet planes are going to sit around literally gathering dust while you wish you bought a couple longer clamps or something.

All that said, you did forget handsaws.  Another very useful handtool (hmmm no devil smiley on this board, so this will have to do  [tongue])
Jay St. Peter

Offline Runhard

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Re: A few questions
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 05:02 PM »
Daniel,

There's a pretty big learning curve to hand tools.  I suspect you'll be frustrated if you go spend the $1K to get all the stuff you're talking about here.  I'd recommend getting regular bench chisels and a block plane first (LN rabbeting block is a good first plane IMO).  Also, some sort of sharpening method is crucial to being able to use this stuff and where much of the frustration lies.  You're likely to spend lots of time and money on sharpening until you find something you're willing to stick with.  I think most of us stick with a method because we're tired of buying different sharpening equipment and figure one of them will have to do.  Ask 10 woodworkers what the best sharpening method is and you'll get 15 answers.

You're used to doing things a different way and it takes time to come around to realizing when it is easier to use a hand tool over a power tool, and be willing to experiment to figure that out.  I bought a bunch of handplanes and didn't actually use them much for several years.  When I did I often had bad results and ruined some wood.  I was pretty aggrivated I chose to buy that stuff over other equipment for a long time until I got over the learning curves and had occasion to use them on projects to build my skills up rather than jump into trying to smooth an exotic panel ... what the heck, the one I used at the WW show made it glass smooth and mine just shreds it ... well, I'll just get out a sander to fix this.

What I do now is plan up front.  If I'm building something where it makes sense, I'll decide to try a new technique prior to building it, make sure I get the tools I want, get them tuned and practice a bit.  Buying tools and having them lay around while you really need something else is very frustrating.  For example, if you plan to make a dining table using dominoes, your new router and rabbet planes are going to sit around literally gathering dust while you wish you bought a couple longer clamps or something.

All that said, you did forget handsaws.  Another very useful handtool (hmmm no devil smiley on this board, so this will have to do  [tongue])

Thanks for the information and I agree with you. When I started this topic over in the festool tools and accessories thread I was asking about what festools to buy to build a bed and it ended up into hand tools, so I started this topic. In the other thread i posted most of my current hand tool:

For hand tools I already have:
Blue Spruce- 5 piece bench chisel set, mallet, large and small marking knives, and marking gauge.
LN- dovetail and crosscut saws, dovetail marker and card scrapers.
Knew Concepts- 5" fretsaw.
Veritas- (2)marking gauges and MKII honeing guide.
BCTW- (2)Japanese pull saws and 2 other japanese saw blades that I need to build handles for (I bought what I could during their clearance sale.)
Starrett- 6" combination square and 4" double square.
DMT-sharpening stones and leather strop.
Daniel

Offline RL

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Re: A few questions
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 05:16 PM »
LN or LV is not an either/ or choice. I prefer the LV router plane, spokeshaves, shoulder plane and plough plane but I prefer the LN bench planes.

I don't have any skew or fishtail planes and don't miss them. I do, however, have a 1/8" LN chisel to get into the corners when I need to. I think I may grind an old chisel into a skew shape one day.

There's no "best" block plane- just what you yourself prefer. As I said before, I like the LN 102 and have a low angle and a standard angle blade for it. I use my LV Veritas adjustable block plane for the crap stuff like plywood!

Likewise, a smoothing plane is an evolving choice. I started with a #4 because what I read pointed me in that direction, but over time I have come to prefer a 5 1/2. Now I use my #4 for general bench work.

I use my LN low angle jack on a shooting board, for preliminary board flattening, planing a straight edge when the board is not that long,  sometimes for smoothing on softwoods...but I would have bought the jack rabbet if it was available at the time. Then again, I would go for the LV jack rabbet over the LN jack rabbet...more features.

At the end of the day, these hand tools overlap each other a lot, so much comes down to the way you prefer to work. Sometimes you just reach for the nearest tool because it's the only sharp one left.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 05:21 PM by Richard Leon »

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

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Re: A few questions
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 05:18 PM »
Hey Daniel,  RE: LA jack planes.  I have the L-N which is great but if I had to do it over again I'd go with L-V.  if you ever get into shooting end grain,  Lee Valley's has a little beefier sides that are less prone to tipping and a very nice "dimple" depression in the sides that your thumb fits nicely into. 

Offline kfitzsimons

  • Posts: 295
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 11:07 PM »
You actually have a great opportunity April 5 & 6 to attend a Lie-Nielsen Hand Tool Event in Cincinnati. There you can try out every tool L-N makes and the L-N crew will help you pick out the tools you need. It's a really fun event. Blue Spruce, Drake, Daed, and several other tool makers are there. You'll learn a ton and have a great time. It's at the offices / shop of the Popular Woodworking magazine. It might be a several hour drive from northern Indiana, but it's worth it.

Offline Runhard

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Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2013, 12:42 PM »
I ordered the LN 60-1/2 low angle adjustable mouth plane an LV large router plane plane with fence. I hade the LN no.4 bronze smooting plane in my shopping cart, but decided to take it out at the last second. I will try these out for a while and go from there.

Thanks for the help,

Daniel
Daniel

Offline Michael_Swe

  • Posts: 361
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2013, 01:00 PM »
Haha, I did the exact same thing when I ordered my 60 1/2. Had the #4 bronze in the shopping cart, but lifted it out just before ordering. Today I ordered the smaller 102 bronze and did the same thing again - lifted the #4 out. The L-N bronze planes are so beautiful and nice. I can't see myself resisting the #4 many days more [tongue]. I'll just stop spending money on food for a couple of weeks and then I can order "my precious"..

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 730
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2013, 01:12 PM »
Haha, I did the exact same thing when I ordered my 60 1/2. Had the #4 bronze in the shopping cart, but lifted it out just before ordering. Today I ordered the smaller 102 bronze and did the same thing again - lifted the #4 out. The L-N bronze planes are so beautiful and nice. I can't see myself resisting the #4 many days more [tongue]. I'll just stop spending money on food for a couple of weeks and then I can order "my precious"..

That's funny  [laughing]
I placed a Festool order too, so I didn't want to go overboard. I'm sure I will get the LN #4 bronze soon. 
Daniel

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3446
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: A few questions
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2013, 09:53 AM »
Hey Daniel,  RE: LA jack planes.  I have the L-N which is great but if I had to do it over again I'd go with L-V.  if you ever get into shooting end grain,  Lee Valley's has a little beefier sides that are less prone to tipping and a very nice "dimple" depression in the sides that your thumb fits nicely into.  

Jim:
Did you get the "hotdog" with the L-N? I have never used my L-N to shoot end grain so I can't comment but when I bought mine it came with that attachement.
Tim
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 01:32 PM by Tim Raleigh »

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1549
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2013, 11:18 AM »
I recommend chris schwartz' anarchist tool chest

Offline GregBradley

  • Posts: 192
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2013, 11:22 PM »
The viewpoint of a mostly Festool power tool user is that you do want a plane or two or three. Lie Nielson is mostly a company that continues the tradition of the Stanley Planes made as well or better than Stanley made them in the "good old days". Lee Valley is making planes of the same quality with less regard to following the traditions. If there is a better way to do it, they generally move in that direction.

In the ultra small low angle block plane, I prefer the LN 102 over the LV apron plane.

In the full size low angle block plane the LV DX60 is just an amazing piece of technology. It is superior to the LV Low Angle Block Plane, which has some technological advantages over the LN 60 1/2. I actually went with the NX60 Nickel verson of the DX60 which is crazy expensive but really, have you seen it? WOW.

You can't go far wrong sticking with either company but I prefer to take advantage of the strong points of each company.

 

Offline Rickfisher

  • Posts: 51
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2013, 12:41 AM »
I think that as anyone moves into hand planes or chisels, the first priority is sharpening. 

A few chisels and a selection of good stones is more useful than a set of the finest chisels and no way of sharpening them ..

Good chisels hold an edge longer than cheap ones.  Often an a whole bunch longer.   

I would suggest you obtain a 1000 x 4000 x 8000 set of stones at the bare minimum and spend as much time as possible sitting in front of the TV practising sharpening.   Truly sharp hand tools are amazing to use..  They take woodworking to the next level .. 

On the planes..  I have 6 x Veritas planes and a couple Lie Nielsen.  Quality of both is outstanding ..  Lee Valley tends to be a bit more advanced, Lie Nielsen are stunningly beautiful and absolute top quality.   There is no bad choice.   

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 424
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2017, 08:39 AM »
I think that as anyone moves into hand planes or chisels, the first priority is sharpening. 

A few chisels and a selection of good stones is more useful than a set of the finest chisels and no way of sharpening them ..

Good chisels hold an edge longer than cheap ones.  Often an a whole bunch longer.   

I would suggest you obtain a 1000 x 4000 x 8000 set of stones at the bare minimum and spend as much time as possible sitting in front of the TV practising sharpening.   Truly sharp hand tools are amazing to use..  They take woodworking to the next level .. 

On the planes..  I have 6 x Veritas planes and a couple Lie Nielsen.  Quality of both is outstanding ..  Lee Valley tends to be a bit more advanced, Lie Nielsen are stunningly beautiful and absolute top quality.   There is no bad choice.


This is a rather old thread (2013), but it really hits the nail on the head when it comes to the path I am currently on.  Having just finished purchasing the essentials of the Shapton sharpening system, I am now looking to purchase a decent set of chisels, and then hand planes.  I did not want to go any further until I had a system in place to sharpen hand tools, as nothing is worse than a dull edge while woodworking.    While I make my chisel and hand plane choices, I am busy refining my sharpening skills on our kitchen cutlery, which which was in desperate need of sharpening. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 08:42 AM by McNally Family »
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RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3176
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2017, 09:01 PM »
Good luck!

Reading over this thread, i feel grateful that people on the FOG took time to answer the almost exact same set of entry level hand plane questions I posted over the past year, despite many of the same people having already posted essentially the same answers in this thread.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 09:05 PM by Edward A Reno III »
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Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 500
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2017, 02:17 AM »
...   While I make my chisel and hand plane choices, I am busy refining my sharpening skills on our kitchen cutlery, which which was in desperate need of sharpening.

Points with the cook for sure :).  If you do the cooking, it is oddly self-serving.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 132
    • In The Woodshop
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2017, 08:06 PM »
Reading through this thread, if I had been present to reply to the OP, I would have advised him to design something to build before buying more tools. He was more focussed on buying the perfect tool without understanding what make it so. Plus he had more than sufficient tools, but was afraid of using them in case they were damaged!

My advice to those starting out with handtools is to purchase adequate but not excellent chisels. Learn to sharpen them, discover what will damage them, master the techniques of use ... and then buy the chisels of your dreams. For example, a small set of Narex is a far better incentive to dive in than a set of Blue Spruce, which look great in the cabinet (BS are excellent chisels, by the way).

This is not a rail at premium tools - I own and use them - but a recognition that many newbies want to start out with a full tool chest of the best, which is fine if all you plan to do is look at them. They are not the tools to learn on.

Regards from Perth

Derek


Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3176
Re: A Few Questions -- Planes and chisels
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2017, 06:39 AM »
Good advice, especially about the damaging part.  I was chopping out a mortise on a board last year, and wasn't paying close enough attention when I hit a screw (with not one but two mallet strikes) and chipped the heck out of the edge on my chisel (i wasn't making furniture -- rather the board was recycled from my lumber pile for a utilitarian purpose).  Fortunately it was just a Narex, otherwise I would have broke down crying.  And after an hour with the coarse diamond stone I had learned how to restore a damaged edge!

Reading through this thread, if I had been present to reply to the OP, I would have advised him to design something to build before buying more tools. He was more focussed on buying the perfect tool without understanding what make it so. Plus he had more than sufficient tools, but was afraid of using them in case they were damaged!

My advice to those starting out with handtools is to purchase adequate but not excellent chisels. Learn to sharpen them, discover what will damage them, master the techniques of use ... and then buy the chisels of your dreams. For example, a small set of Narex is a far better incentive to dive in than a set of Blue Spruce, which look great in the cabinet (BS are excellent chisels, by the way).

This is not a rail at premium tools - I own and use them - but a recognition that many newbies want to start out with a full tool chest of the best, which is fine if all you plan to do is look at them. They are not the tools to learn on.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3