Author Topic: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.  (Read 18541 times)

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Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2349
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2017, 06:04 PM »
Lee Valley sold a kit that would help those in need a a quick hand tool solution;

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71776

Just the block plane alone is a very useful tool.  I had a guy bring a worn oak threshold to my shop to see if I could cut it thinner on my table saw since his elderly parents were having such a difficult time getting over it without tripping.  A few minutes later holding it in my hands I used the block plane to cut down and flatten the warped board.  I told him that pushing short thin waves boards through the table saw was looking for disaster.  Hand tools have their place!

here is the Veritas block plane that replaced my old block plane which could never hold it setting in a deep cut;

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=61963&cat=1,41182,48942

This is an excellent plane and will last a lifetime.

Jack
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 06:14 PM by jacko9 »

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Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 143
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2017, 12:41 AM »
A lot of the cheaper homes being built or remodeled these days are full of MDF, which I'm guessing doesn't plain well or at all, but I've never tried before.

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.


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Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2349
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2017, 01:57 AM »
A lot of the cheaper homes being built or remodeled these days are full of MDF, which I'm guessing doesn't plain well or at all, but I've never tried before.

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look at Lee Valley's Veritas Mk2 sharpening kit.  You can keep all your planes in razor sharp condition with a 500 and 1000 grit water stone.  Look for the splash and go stones like Shapton Glass Stones.

Jack

Offline J Voos

  • Posts: 19
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2017, 03:34 AM »
As a furniture making hobbyist for 35+ years, I found that my work was limited by my routine use of power tools.  My work was defined by the limitations of power tools, and I began working and learning more about hand tools.  I studied Japanese woodworking, joinery, as well as spending two summers at the Krenov School in Fort Bragg.  This changed my woodworking for the better.

Although pieces take more time, they have a subtlety to them that was missing before.  Highly recommended that woodworkers up their game in the use of hand tools.  Although time is money, higher quality work can also be rewarded.

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2017, 06:53 AM »
A lot of the cheaper homes being built or remodeled these days are full of MDF, which I'm guessing doesn't plain well or at all, but I've never tried before.

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your in for a surprise once you have your planes sharpened up, try them out on some MDF, it won't be  as satisfying as planing wood but the end results should be really good.

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 231
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2017, 11:12 AM »
Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.

I've never used this technique, but Rob Cosman makes the whole sharpening process look so fast and easy: https://youtu.be/bx-D9hsaosM?t=3m54s.  He actually makes it look fun.  He has numerous videos where he shows how to sharpen a plane blade.  He also has several videos how to setup a brand new Woodriver planed from right out of the box.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1810
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2017, 11:59 AM »
I bought four DMT Dia-Sharp stones, (course, fine, extra fine, and extra extra fine)  though Lee Valley along with their honing guide and really like the results.  I spent most of my woodworking experience working with power tools but have been steadily discovering that for custom work, hand tools are often quicker, give better results and are more time efficient.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 857
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2017, 12:26 PM »
I am a site carpenter, I carry a Lie Neilsen 60 1/2 with an extra blade and a Stanley Bedrock 604.

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 96
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2017, 12:29 PM »
Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.

I've never used this technique, but Rob Cosman makes the whole sharpening process look so fast and easy: https://youtu.be/bx-D9hsaosM?t=3m54s.  He actually makes it look fun.  He has numerous videos where he shows how to sharpen a plane blade.  He also has several videos how to setup a brand new Woodriver planed from right out of the box.

I'm going down the Cosman sharpening path... got the Trend diamond plate and the Shapton stones (finally in stock again) and even the additive for the water you spritz on the stones... I can't confidently maintain the bevel by feel yet, but I think I'm getting better at it with the limited time I have to play on weekends. I DID resort to using the Veritas sharpening guide as an interim measure. The "ruler trick" for the back bevel was something completely new to me, and seems to many to be a wonderful sharpening innovation... I recommend this method highly.
Larry

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 117
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2017, 05:44 AM »
A lot of the cheaper homes being built or remodeled these days are full of MDF, which I'm guessing doesn't plain well or at all, but I've never tried before.
As said elsewhere it actually planes very well providing your iron is sharp - but it knocks the edge off the irons pretty quickly (all the resins in it)

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them.
OK. I'll give you that. Our last apprentice has been taught at college that you need a honing jig to sharpen a plane iron. Yeah, like that's going to work on a job site........ Two of us "old timers" showed him how to touch-up a blade freehand using a figure-8 motion - you can use the jig at home when you have the time. His college tutor apparently censured him for doing that!  [eek]
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1072
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2017, 07:09 AM »

As said elsewhere it actually planes very well providing your iron is sharp - but it knocks the edge off the irons pretty quickly (all the resins in it)

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them.
OK. I'll give you that. Our last apprentice has been taught at college that you need a honing jig to sharpen a plane iron. Yeah, like that's going to work on a job site........ Two of us "old timers" showed him how to touch-up a blade freehand using a figure-8 motion - you can use the jig at home when you have the time. His college tutor apparently censured him for doing that!  [eek]

Sadly the powers that be don't want to train up craftsmen and women the way they used to be, a guy I know got a teaching job at a local college and is absolutely rubbish at actually making stuff but boy can he talk the talk! [wink]

I spent a morning sharpening tools the other day and counted how many planes I have in the shop............29.
I think I may have a problem other than the Festool one.

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 262
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2017, 07:28 AM »
Sadly the powers that be don't want to train up craftsmen and women the way they used to be, a guy I know got a teaching job at a local college and is absolutely rubbish at actually making stuff but boy can he talk the talk! [wink]

I have an apprentice and her teachers at school are the type who have never worked at a small shipyard a day in their lives. I constantly had to un-teach her everything they teached her at school. Luckily she has now reached the point that she does whatever they want her to do at school to get her diploma and when school is out she throws it out the window. When she's at work in my company she does things the right way.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1810
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2017, 09:12 AM »
Those that can do...do, those that cannot teach

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2017, 11:49 AM »
Quote
Luckily she has now reached the point that she does whatever they want her to do at school to get her diploma and when school is out she throws it out the window. When she's at work in my company she does things the right way.

This has been my observation of formalized education across many fields.  Schooling very rarely trains the student to do a job. 

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 716
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2017, 04:53 PM »
Red Rocks Community College in Denver used to hire in people who were working at what they were teaching.  They had a great program for quite a long time - they had two department heads who believed in that strategy.  For various reasons both of the heads that I knew are gone now, but from the website it looks like they are still hiring experience.

I took a bunch of classes there, which exposed me to a lot of different perspectives and tools.  The best part was sitting around talking about design and techniques.  There was one guy who had about 40 years of high-end architectural woodworking under his belt, and is still doing it as far as I know.  He had an awesome ability to describe practical ways to do high quality work quickly.

I keep hearing rumors that there is tension in the administration about whether or not to keep the program.  Personally I think it would be a huge mistake to cancel it.

Lemwise mentioned that he had to train a new employee by getting her to unlearn what she had learned at school and re-learn things the way that his company does things.  I think that's always the case to some degree, because every company that has figured out how to make money by quality craftsmanship has ways of doing things that are uniquely tailored to a process that gets the right quality of work done quickly for that company - part of the competitive advantage.  I don't know about the school in question, but I would hope that it is not totally incompetent.  I think a good craftsman matures into a personal style of work over time, and that all their earlier experiences in the craft (including schools & work) are just grist for the mill that eventually creates and evolves their mature style.  That said, the better the grist, the better the resulting craft :).

Offline KGB pilot125

  • Posts: 62
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2018, 12:24 PM »
I have taken my company back to doing primarily interior finish work. I am on a new construction site. I pull out my hand plane and know he back off a panel to get a snug fit to some casing. The builder was like what the heck are you doing? Fitting this panel. He yells at the out side guys and asks if any of them have a hand plane. They all laugh.

 I find it astounding and outright a travesty that the trades have lost appreciation for timeless methods. It saves me a trip down 2 flights of stairs and a table saw setup to get the fit i need. Granted it is all paint grade work. I still feel there is a lack of pride in workmanship and using the proper tools to get you there.

JMO

Its not a matter of people carrying hand planes its a matter of people taking pride in work.  My parents just built a home that appraised for over 1 million dollars, custom builder whole nine yards.  The punch list and the items still wrong after a year of living there are massive.  Almost every drawer front has fallen off, they were missing stucco on the entry way, missing rock on a column out front, the foundation wall sits 8 inches higher than plans call for which comes from the dirt work guy which is believable based they placed the septic tank in the wrong part of the yard... Luckily the GC left a voicemail stating that and they are now in a legal battle over the 40k or so it cost for my dad to bring in his own guys to move it to the downhill side of the property...

I also see it in my field (auto mechanic)  the amount of things that get put back together with an impact and never torqued or even checked is astonishing.  Its all about getting it done that absolute quickest way and dont give two shits about quality.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1810
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2018, 01:32 PM »
KGB is spot on about money having nothing to do with quality anymore.  I install mirrors in high end houses frequently.  It is not at all unusual for a mirror to be out of plane by .375 or more.  Couple years ago I worked in a house where the driveway alone had to cost $70,000.  The mirror was in the kids end bathroom and was only 24" wide.  The wall was out 3/4" in that width.  I also would have like to be there when the owners moved in.  They must have been fans of IKEA as both the kids bedrooms were at opposite ends of short halls that were only 42" wide and the 32" doors were at right angles to the hall.  This was not a spec house this was an architect designed house.  The lead carpenter told that the second floor was two inches out of plumb from the fascia to the floor...Mennonite framers.

Offline CrazyLarry

  • Posts: 276
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2018, 04:51 PM »
In the last year having a few hand tools, a router and scrapers has got me out of a number of scrapes on historic buildings where there was an urgent need for a few feet of a specialised moulding to be run, but the client simply couldn't justify the cost of setting-up and running it. In those cases my basic kit was used to provide a more than acceptable replacement - good enough to pass muster with the Conservation Officer. But it ain't rocket science when all said and done

I suppose that is my age showing, or maybe I'm turning into a curmudgeon after all! Bah! Humbug!

Nah you're just right, I had a single day job once easing the rebates on 30 conservation matched oak window frames with metal inner frames...

Somehow the joiner (not me) and the metal worker had got their wires crossed and all the metal frames were some 3 mm oversize in both directions... a chisel plane  a bullnose and a 3 in 1 rebate with spare blades for each + few coffee break / sharpening sessions for all 6 blades and everything fitted snug. The alternative: remake either the 30 oak or 30 metal frames, neither of which would be a one day fix of course, and changing the metal frames would have meant 30 new glazed units!

Power tools just aren't always the fastest or most effective.