Author Topic: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.  (Read 11589 times)

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Offline Gr8trim4u

  • Posts: 42
Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« on: January 26, 2017, 07:37 PM »
 I have taken my company back to doing primarily interior finish work. I am on a new construction site. I pull out my hand plane and know he back off a panel to get a snug fit to some casing. The builder was like what the heck are you doing? Fitting this panel. He yells at the out side guys and asks if any of them have a hand plane. They all laugh.

 I find it astounding and outright a travesty that the trades have lost appreciation for timeless methods. It saves me a trip down 2 flights of stairs and a table saw setup to get the fit i need. Granted it is all paint grade work. I still feel there is a lack of pride in workmanship and using the proper tools to get you there.

JMO
Not my first rodeo!!!

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Offline RustE

  • Posts: 166
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 09:22 PM »
I have started taking more interest in 'classic' hand tools.  The turning point was a project when I realized I couldn't use a power tool safely and didn't have a block plane at the time.

Now I have two block planes and a low-angle jack plane.  Still want a few more block planes from various makers.  Then I'm planning to find some decent hand saws. 

Offline sheperd80

  • Posts: 75
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 09:51 PM »
I carry a 6" block plane and use it all the time. Its amazing the number of off jobs it excels at. And as u mentioned i dont have to go outside to the saws or hop down off a scaffolding for a small scribe or adjustment. I wouldnt leave home wihout it.

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Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 958
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 10:04 PM »
I learned woodworking with hand planes about 50 years ago. I have dozens of hand planes that never get used anymore.
My turning point was years ago when I was teaching my late Son cabinetmaking & finish work. I was teaching him the use of hand planes. He asked me why he needed to to learn this when we had a shop & truck full of power tools. The only answer I had for him was that was how I was trained. The difference when I learned woodworking & finish work, they did not have the quality saw blades, sanders & sandpaper that are available now. Back then I would cut all of the trime for a new house with a hand miter saw & then hand nailed all of it. Hand planes got lots of use back then.

Since going to Festool, I only carry a block plane in my tool box for quick fits. For anything else, I use my Festool track saw or one of my Festool sanders. When they are hooked up to a vac, there isn't even any cleanup to do. In my case, the quality of my trim work is better now then it was when I used hand tools. The jobs also go a lot quicker. 

I still get a thrill out of finding old plane shavings when I am working on an old house. I just do not care to make my own anymore to leave behind.
 

   

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1173
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 10:33 PM »
Perhaps it's why the outside guys are working outside in the middle of winter  ::)

Offline justinh

  • Posts: 164
    • Profiled Edge Woodworks
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2017, 10:55 PM »
By and large in modern carpentry power tools trump hand tools for efficiency but a block plane is  a production tool. If you know what you're doing they save a lot of footsteps.  Mine hangs off my vest every day.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 527
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 01:31 AM »
I started out as a power tool guy, but find that I'm using hand planes more frequently, because they are just faster for jobs where the power tool setup would take forever.  I find that I use the smallest plane that will do the job - my apron plan first, then my block plane.  My medium shoulder plane also gets a fair amount of use.  Granted my projects are small to medium size woodworking that lend themselves to those kinds of tools.  The other advantage of planes (and chisels) is the quiet - I don't have to don ear and dust protection to use them inside.

That said, I'm not one to use hand tools if they aren't the best tool for the job.  I've never dimensioned lumber with planes, although I'd like to get good at it one of these days.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 254
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 01:48 AM »
Way back when before power tools became commonly available, and used, craftsman and other trades still had to get their work done, and preferably as quickly as possible, because the tradesman still wanted to take home money at the end of the day like modern tradesman still do.

There were and are a large number of specialty tools, that are either not available new, or only available thru specialty sources, that would allow a tradesman to complete certain tasks very quickly and easily by hand. A large variety of hand planes, many of which are no longer manufactured constitute some of the tools, but there are also a number of specialty saws, files, drills, layout tools etc.

While some jobs can be done much quicker using power tools, like drilling large numbers of holes, and  ripping and crosscutting large amounts of wood, there are other jobs that can be accomplished just as quickly, and probably far more safely  with hand tools.

Online Lemwise

  • Posts: 251
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2017, 03:18 PM »
For me as a shipwright a block plane and No 4 are indispensable. On a boat nothing is perfectly straight or square, we deal with so many different lines and angles that doing it by hand with a hand plane to get a perfect fit is the only option. Another thing we also have to deal with is limited space. When I'm doing carpentry work in the owners cabin for example (usually the aft cabin) there just isn't enough room to do everything with power tools. Leaving the boat and going over to a workbench all time isn't an option because it takes too much time. Most of the time the only viable and the quickest way is to do it by hand.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 805
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2017, 05:34 PM »
I am a site carpenter,  I carry my lie neilsen 60 block plane and either a Stanley bedrock 604 or a Stanley bailey no3.  A sharp plane is an incredible tool.  I use one everyday.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 99
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2017, 09:47 AM »
I'm a hobbiest / DIY guy and wouldn't be without my Veritas apron plane.  Although I haven't used hand tools extensively and really like my power tools, this little plane is just so handy and quick that I seem to find uses for it on almost every project I do.

The other thing I have come to appreciate with a hand plane is that it has forced me to learn to sharpen correctly.  That skill has made me really enjoy working with a truly sharp tool edge.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 311
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2017, 03:22 PM »
I have taken my company back to doing primarily interior finish work. I am on a new construction site. I pull out my hand plane and know he back off a panel to get a snug fit to some casing. The builder was like what the heck are you doing? Fitting this panel. He yells at the out side guys and asks if any of them have a hand plane. They all laugh.

 I find it astounding and outright a travesty that the trades have lost appreciation for timeless methods. It saves me a trip down 2 flights of stairs and a table saw setup to get the fit i need. Granted it is all paint grade work. I still feel there is a lack of pride in workmanship and using the proper tools to get you there.

JMO

I wonder why they are mostly doing first fix work...

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 855
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2017, 04:50 PM »
I'm getting into handtools as well, concerns about the noise footprint when I work around apartment buildings, and the need to move from one job to another in the course of a days work means handtools being less bulky in some cases are more portable. Also if there are kids around handtools are less dangerous if they come up suddenly. Though handtools being sharp have to be carefully stowed and kept track of.

I've got a Veritas Low Angle Jack plane on the way upgraded my sharpening setup a month ago. Getting a variety of chisels mortise,heavy duty bevel edge chisels. butt chisels, gouges.. I've had a Block plane in my kit all along, and will get a few wooden planes sometime soon.. I have a few Bahco handsaws and am getting a Ryoba handsaw to supplement. I'll be able to work later with quiet handtools, which actually equates to more paid hours in the day.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 05:53 PM by PreferrablyWood »
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Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 823
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2017, 04:59 PM »
I learned woodworking with hand planes about 50 years ago. I have dozens of hand planes that never get used anymore.
My turning point was years ago when I was teaching my late Son cabinetmaking & finish work. I was teaching him the use of hand planes. He asked me why he needed to to learn this when we had a shop & truck full of power tools. The only answer I had for him was that was how I was trained. The difference when I learned woodworking & finish work, they did not have the quality saw blades, sanders & sandpaper that are available now. Back then I would cut all of the trime for a new house with a hand miter saw & then hand nailed all of it. Hand planes got lots of use back then.

Since going to Festool, I only carry a block plane in my tool box for quick fits. For anything else, I use my Festool track saw or one of my Festool sanders. When they are hooked up to a vac, there isn't even any cleanup to do. In my case, the quality of my trim work is better now then it was when I used hand tools. The jobs also go a lot quicker. 

I still get a thrill out of finding old plane shavings when I am working on an old house. I just do not care to make my own anymore to leave behind.
 

   

This is the thing. Sometimes it's just self-serving and nostalgic, and not always relevant to the modern workflow, to cling to the old ways.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3759
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2017, 06:53 PM »
I am not sure I understand the meaning of "block" versus "bench", and the context of when one should want one over the other??

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 166
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2017, 07:08 PM »
I am not sure I understand the meaning of "block" versus "bench", and the context of when one should want one over the other??

Physical size differences.
Block Plane = 1 Hand
Bench Plane = 2 Hands

Offline justinh

  • Posts: 164
    • Profiled Edge Woodworks
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2017, 07:09 PM »
I learned woodworking with hand planes about 50 years ago. I have dozens of hand planes that never get used anymore.
My turning point was years ago when I was teaching my late Son cabinetmaking & finish work. I was teaching him the use of hand planes. He asked me why he needed to to learn this when we had a shop & truck full of power tools. The only answer I had for him was that was how I was trained. The difference when I learned woodworking & finish work, they did not have the quality saw blades, sanders & sandpaper that are available now. Back then I would cut all of the trime for a new house with a hand miter saw & then hand nailed all of it. Hand planes got lots of use back then.

Since going to Festool, I only carry a block plane in my tool box for quick fits. For anything else, I use my Festool track saw or one of my Festool sanders. When they are hooked up to a vac, there isn't even any cleanup to do. In my case, the quality of my trim work is better now then it was when I used hand tools. The jobs also go a lot quicker. 

I still get a thrill out of finding old plane shavings when I am working on an old house. I just do not care to make my own anymore to leave behind.
 

   

This is the thing. Sometimes it's just self-serving and nostalgic, and not always relevant to the modern workflow, to cling to the old ways.

Yes and no.  Hand planes and tools aren't the primary tools onsite that they once were but they are a very efficient means of tuning and finishing quite a few joints and cuts in modern carpentry.

These are the basics I carry with me.  A standard and low angle block plane in addition to a Lie Nielson low angle 102.  Owning and knowing how to use these saves footsteps to and from power tools for tweaking the fit of a miter or tuning a scribe.  A couple spoke shaves.  Fastest and easiest way to fair rail fittings to straight rail.  Collins Bunny planes.  Useful for fairing rail and scarf joints.  Butt plane.  No where near as efficient for hardware as a router but very useful for tweaking mortise depths to tune a door fit. Lie Nielson rabbet block plane and a #92 shoulder plane.  Refits on rabbets or removing material right up to a hard edge.  Lie Nielson version of a #95 edge plane.  Fast and accurate way to remove saw marks from the edge of a rip off the table saw.  One swipe down an edge takes a small fraction of the time as sanding with no chance of rolling the edge.

All are worth owning in addition to power tools.  Sometimes there is simply no substitute for them.


Offline indyjumper

  • Posts: 18
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2017, 08:06 PM »
Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1173
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2017, 08:58 PM »
I'm not sure there is one  [scratch chin]

Offline Retired Chippy

  • Posts: 25
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2017, 09:48 PM »
Block planes -- blade bevel is UP
Bench planes -- blade bevel is DOWN
Bench planes were typically used at the joiner's bench and supposedly the name came from that.

An edge plane like a Stanley #95 or a shooting board plane could be used to clean up the edge of plywood, however, you will probably dull the blade more frequently than if used on most solid woods.
Wallflower and information sponge

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1279
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2017, 10:05 PM »
Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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An edge plane will tune up 3/4" plywood edges quit nicely.

257796-0

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 141
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2017, 02:49 AM »
Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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It is not the plane, but the blade. O1 steel will not hold up for long. I would look for a HSS (M2) steel blade (Mujingfang make them for woodies and some of these can be used on Stanley planes - I have on in a #3), or something high in Vanadium (I think ECE do these).

I keep aside a block plane for plywood and MDF.

As far as hand tools being better than power tools on site, keeping in mind that I only work in a workshop, I still wonder about rebates, grooves, chamfering and hinge mortices. I would rather do these with hand tools than power tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek




Online Lemwise

  • Posts: 251
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2017, 04:07 AM »
In my experience PM-V11 holds up very nicely on plywood edges. The T10 carbon steel blade in the Quangsheng LABP plane that Workshop Heaven sells also does a decent job on plywood edges.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 311
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2017, 09:45 AM »
Bench planes -- blade bevel is DOWN

Yeah, well apart from the bevel UP ones though eh?

Offline mrrhum

  • Posts: 30
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2017, 10:14 PM »
I wouldn't be without my Lee Valley low-angle block plain, and let me put in a word for scrub planes. I'm surprised at how much I use mine.

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A good craftsman knows enough to buy good tools.

Offline Gr8trim4u

  • Posts: 42
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2017, 05:08 PM »
It seems there are more people out there then what i thought. I guess it is just my area or maybe the crews i am running into.



Not my first rodeo!!!

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 527
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2017, 02:33 AM »
I just did some trim in my kitchen and used a shooting plane to put a 45 degree miter on the corners.  Wow!  Best mitered corners I've ever done, as close to perfect as I can imagine.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 586
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2017, 04:34 AM »
I carry a 6" block plane and use it all the time. Its amazing the number of off jobs it excels at. And as u mentioned i dont have to go outside to the saws or hop down off a scaffolding for a small scribe or adjustment. I wouldnt leave home wihout it.

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One big plus is the battery is always charged. :-)

I use hand planes and hand saws all the time. I thought everybody did.
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Offline mikeyr

  • Posts: 53
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2017, 12:16 PM »
I used a plane this weekend for the first time in years, I made a mistake and cut something about 1/8" too wide and had already changed the setup on the table saw by the time I noticed it.  I got out my plane and made some shavings.  I even took the shavings into the house and showed my wife, explaining that it had been many years since I had made shavings that nice.  She laughed...but I did get some personal satisfaction from using a hand tool, I have been using power for so long.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Offline tony_sheehan

  • Posts: 101
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2017, 12:56 PM »
Bob D- a lot of people do still use hand saws and hand planes all, or at least a lot of the time but remember, you're on the FOG here so it's not necessarily representative.
Let's face it,  you'll get a better finish from a No 3 or 4 smoother when properly set up than you will from, say, an EHL65 and a sander (assuming absolute quality is your goal without the constraints of working to a time schedule)