Author Topic: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.  (Read 15553 times)

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Offline Gr8trim4u

  • Posts: 42
Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« on: January 26, 2017, 07:37 PM »
 I have taken my company back to doing primarily interior finish work. I am on a new construction site. I pull out my hand plane and know he back off a panel to get a snug fit to some casing. The builder was like what the heck are you doing? Fitting this panel. He yells at the out side guys and asks if any of them have a hand plane. They all laugh.

 I find it astounding and outright a travesty that the trades have lost appreciation for timeless methods. It saves me a trip down 2 flights of stairs and a table saw setup to get the fit i need. Granted it is all paint grade work. I still feel there is a lack of pride in workmanship and using the proper tools to get you there.

JMO
Not my first rodeo!!!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline RustE

  • Posts: 166
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 09:22 PM »
I have started taking more interest in 'classic' hand tools.  The turning point was a project when I realized I couldn't use a power tool safely and didn't have a block plane at the time.

Now I have two block planes and a low-angle jack plane.  Still want a few more block planes from various makers.  Then I'm planning to find some decent hand saws. 

Offline sheperd80

  • Posts: 89
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 09:51 PM »
I carry a 6" block plane and use it all the time. Its amazing the number of off jobs it excels at. And as u mentioned i dont have to go outside to the saws or hop down off a scaffolding for a small scribe or adjustment. I wouldnt leave home wihout it.

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Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 961
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 10:04 PM »
I learned woodworking with hand planes about 50 years ago. I have dozens of hand planes that never get used anymore.
My turning point was years ago when I was teaching my late Son cabinetmaking & finish work. I was teaching him the use of hand planes. He asked me why he needed to to learn this when we had a shop & truck full of power tools. The only answer I had for him was that was how I was trained. The difference when I learned woodworking & finish work, they did not have the quality saw blades, sanders & sandpaper that are available now. Back then I would cut all of the trime for a new house with a hand miter saw & then hand nailed all of it. Hand planes got lots of use back then.

Since going to Festool, I only carry a block plane in my tool box for quick fits. For anything else, I use my Festool track saw or one of my Festool sanders. When they are hooked up to a vac, there isn't even any cleanup to do. In my case, the quality of my trim work is better now then it was when I used hand tools. The jobs also go a lot quicker. 

I still get a thrill out of finding old plane shavings when I am working on an old house. I just do not care to make my own anymore to leave behind.
 

   

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1445
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 10:33 PM »
Perhaps it's why the outside guys are working outside in the middle of winter  ::)

Offline justinh

  • Posts: 164
    • Profiled Edge Woodworks
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2017, 10:55 PM »
By and large in modern carpentry power tools trump hand tools for efficiency but a block plane is  a production tool. If you know what you're doing they save a lot of footsteps.  Mine hangs off my vest every day.

Online HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 606
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 01:31 AM »
I started out as a power tool guy, but find that I'm using hand planes more frequently, because they are just faster for jobs where the power tool setup would take forever.  I find that I use the smallest plane that will do the job - my apron plan first, then my block plane.  My medium shoulder plane also gets a fair amount of use.  Granted my projects are small to medium size woodworking that lend themselves to those kinds of tools.  The other advantage of planes (and chisels) is the quiet - I don't have to don ear and dust protection to use them inside.

That said, I'm not one to use hand tools if they aren't the best tool for the job.  I've never dimensioned lumber with planes, although I'd like to get good at it one of these days.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 275
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 01:48 AM »
Way back when before power tools became commonly available, and used, craftsman and other trades still had to get their work done, and preferably as quickly as possible, because the tradesman still wanted to take home money at the end of the day like modern tradesman still do.

There were and are a large number of specialty tools, that are either not available new, or only available thru specialty sources, that would allow a tradesman to complete certain tasks very quickly and easily by hand. A large variety of hand planes, many of which are no longer manufactured constitute some of the tools, but there are also a number of specialty saws, files, drills, layout tools etc.

While some jobs can be done much quicker using power tools, like drilling large numbers of holes, and  ripping and crosscutting large amounts of wood, there are other jobs that can be accomplished just as quickly, and probably far more safely  with hand tools.

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2017, 03:18 PM »
For me as a shipwright a block plane and No 4 are indispensable. On a boat nothing is perfectly straight or square, we deal with so many different lines and angles that doing it by hand with a hand plane to get a perfect fit is the only option. Another thing we also have to deal with is limited space. When I'm doing carpentry work in the owners cabin for example (usually the aft cabin) there just isn't enough room to do everything with power tools. Leaving the boat and going over to a workbench all time isn't an option because it takes too much time. Most of the time the only viable and the quickest way is to do it by hand.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 836
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2017, 05:34 PM »
I am a site carpenter,  I carry my lie neilsen 60 block plane and either a Stanley bedrock 604 or a Stanley bailey no3.  A sharp plane is an incredible tool.  I use one everyday.

Online Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 108
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2017, 09:47 AM »
I'm a hobbiest / DIY guy and wouldn't be without my Veritas apron plane.  Although I haven't used hand tools extensively and really like my power tools, this little plane is just so handy and quick that I seem to find uses for it on almost every project I do.

The other thing I have come to appreciate with a hand plane is that it has forced me to learn to sharpen correctly.  That skill has made me really enjoy working with a truly sharp tool edge.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 322
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2017, 03:22 PM »
I have taken my company back to doing primarily interior finish work. I am on a new construction site. I pull out my hand plane and know he back off a panel to get a snug fit to some casing. The builder was like what the heck are you doing? Fitting this panel. He yells at the out side guys and asks if any of them have a hand plane. They all laugh.

 I find it astounding and outright a travesty that the trades have lost appreciation for timeless methods. It saves me a trip down 2 flights of stairs and a table saw setup to get the fit i need. Granted it is all paint grade work. I still feel there is a lack of pride in workmanship and using the proper tools to get you there.

JMO

I wonder why they are mostly doing first fix work...

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2017, 04:50 PM »
I'm getting into handtools as well, concerns about the noise footprint when I work around apartment buildings, and the need to move from one job to another in the course of a days work means handtools being less bulky in some cases are more portable. Also if there are kids around handtools are less dangerous if they come up suddenly. Though handtools being sharp have to be carefully stowed and kept track of.

I've got a Veritas Low Angle Jack plane on the way upgraded my sharpening setup a month ago. Getting a variety of chisels mortise,heavy duty bevel edge chisels. butt chisels, gouges.. I've had a Block plane in my kit all along, and will get a few wooden planes sometime soon.. I have a few Bahco handsaws and am getting a Ryoba handsaw to supplement. I'll be able to work later with quiet handtools, which actually equates to more paid hours in the day.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 05:53 PM by PreferrablyWood »
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
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Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 835
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2017, 04:59 PM »
I learned woodworking with hand planes about 50 years ago. I have dozens of hand planes that never get used anymore.
My turning point was years ago when I was teaching my late Son cabinetmaking & finish work. I was teaching him the use of hand planes. He asked me why he needed to to learn this when we had a shop & truck full of power tools. The only answer I had for him was that was how I was trained. The difference when I learned woodworking & finish work, they did not have the quality saw blades, sanders & sandpaper that are available now. Back then I would cut all of the trime for a new house with a hand miter saw & then hand nailed all of it. Hand planes got lots of use back then.

Since going to Festool, I only carry a block plane in my tool box for quick fits. For anything else, I use my Festool track saw or one of my Festool sanders. When they are hooked up to a vac, there isn't even any cleanup to do. In my case, the quality of my trim work is better now then it was when I used hand tools. The jobs also go a lot quicker. 

I still get a thrill out of finding old plane shavings when I am working on an old house. I just do not care to make my own anymore to leave behind.
 

   

This is the thing. Sometimes it's just self-serving and nostalgic, and not always relevant to the modern workflow, to cling to the old ways.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2017, 06:53 PM »
I am not sure I understand the meaning of "block" versus "bench", and the context of when one should want one over the other??

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 166
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2017, 07:08 PM »
I am not sure I understand the meaning of "block" versus "bench", and the context of when one should want one over the other??

Physical size differences.
Block Plane = 1 Hand
Bench Plane = 2 Hands

Offline justinh

  • Posts: 164
    • Profiled Edge Woodworks
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2017, 07:09 PM »
I learned woodworking with hand planes about 50 years ago. I have dozens of hand planes that never get used anymore.
My turning point was years ago when I was teaching my late Son cabinetmaking & finish work. I was teaching him the use of hand planes. He asked me why he needed to to learn this when we had a shop & truck full of power tools. The only answer I had for him was that was how I was trained. The difference when I learned woodworking & finish work, they did not have the quality saw blades, sanders & sandpaper that are available now. Back then I would cut all of the trime for a new house with a hand miter saw & then hand nailed all of it. Hand planes got lots of use back then.

Since going to Festool, I only carry a block plane in my tool box for quick fits. For anything else, I use my Festool track saw or one of my Festool sanders. When they are hooked up to a vac, there isn't even any cleanup to do. In my case, the quality of my trim work is better now then it was when I used hand tools. The jobs also go a lot quicker. 

I still get a thrill out of finding old plane shavings when I am working on an old house. I just do not care to make my own anymore to leave behind.
 

   

This is the thing. Sometimes it's just self-serving and nostalgic, and not always relevant to the modern workflow, to cling to the old ways.

Yes and no.  Hand planes and tools aren't the primary tools onsite that they once were but they are a very efficient means of tuning and finishing quite a few joints and cuts in modern carpentry.

These are the basics I carry with me.  A standard and low angle block plane in addition to a Lie Nielson low angle 102.  Owning and knowing how to use these saves footsteps to and from power tools for tweaking the fit of a miter or tuning a scribe.  A couple spoke shaves.  Fastest and easiest way to fair rail fittings to straight rail.  Collins Bunny planes.  Useful for fairing rail and scarf joints.  Butt plane.  No where near as efficient for hardware as a router but very useful for tweaking mortise depths to tune a door fit. Lie Nielson rabbet block plane and a #92 shoulder plane.  Refits on rabbets or removing material right up to a hard edge.  Lie Nielson version of a #95 edge plane.  Fast and accurate way to remove saw marks from the edge of a rip off the table saw.  One swipe down an edge takes a small fraction of the time as sanding with no chance of rolling the edge.

All are worth owning in addition to power tools.  Sometimes there is simply no substitute for them.


Offline indyjumper

  • Posts: 18
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2017, 08:06 PM »
Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1445
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2017, 08:58 PM »
I'm not sure there is one  [scratch chin]

Offline Retired Chippy

  • Posts: 29
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2017, 09:48 PM »
Block planes -- blade bevel is UP
Bench planes -- blade bevel is DOWN
Bench planes were typically used at the joiner's bench and supposedly the name came from that.

An edge plane like a Stanley #95 or a shooting board plane could be used to clean up the edge of plywood, however, you will probably dull the blade more frequently than if used on most solid woods.
Wallflower and information sponge

Online waho6o9

  • Posts: 1293
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2017, 10:05 PM »
Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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An edge plane will tune up 3/4" plywood edges quit nicely.

257796-0

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2017, 02:49 AM »
Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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It is not the plane, but the blade. O1 steel will not hold up for long. I would look for a HSS (M2) steel blade (Mujingfang make them for woodies and some of these can be used on Stanley planes - I have on in a #3), or something high in Vanadium (I think ECE do these).

I keep aside a block plane for plywood and MDF.

As far as hand tools being better than power tools on site, keeping in mind that I only work in a workshop, I still wonder about rebates, grooves, chamfering and hinge mortices. I would rather do these with hand tools than power tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek




Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2017, 04:07 AM »
In my experience PM-V11 holds up very nicely on plywood edges. The T10 carbon steel blade in the Quangsheng LABP plane that Workshop Heaven sells also does a decent job on plywood edges.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 322
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2017, 09:45 AM »
Bench planes -- blade bevel is DOWN

Yeah, well apart from the bevel UP ones though eh?

Offline mrrhum

  • Posts: 31
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2017, 10:14 PM »
I wouldn't be without my Lee Valley low-angle block plain, and let me put in a word for scrub planes. I'm surprised at how much I use mine.

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A good craftsman knows enough to buy good tools.

Offline Gr8trim4u

  • Posts: 42
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2017, 05:08 PM »
It seems there are more people out there then what i thought. I guess it is just my area or maybe the crews i am running into.



Not my first rodeo!!!

Online HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 606
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2017, 02:33 AM »
I just did some trim in my kitchen and used a shooting plane to put a 45 degree miter on the corners.  Wow!  Best mitered corners I've ever done, as close to perfect as I can imagine.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 711
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2017, 04:34 AM »
I carry a 6" block plane and use it all the time. Its amazing the number of off jobs it excels at. And as u mentioned i dont have to go outside to the saws or hop down off a scaffolding for a small scribe or adjustment. I wouldnt leave home wihout it.

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One big plus is the battery is always charged. :-)

I use hand planes and hand saws all the time. I thought everybody did.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline mikeyr

  • Posts: 57
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2017, 12:16 PM »
I used a plane this weekend for the first time in years, I made a mistake and cut something about 1/8" too wide and had already changed the setup on the table saw by the time I noticed it.  I got out my plane and made some shavings.  I even took the shavings into the house and showed my wife, explaining that it had been many years since I had made shavings that nice.  She laughed...but I did get some personal satisfaction from using a hand tool, I have been using power for so long.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Offline tony_sheehan

  • Posts: 103
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2017, 12:56 PM »
Bob D- a lot of people do still use hand saws and hand planes all, or at least a lot of the time but remember, you're on the FOG here so it's not necessarily representative.
Let's face it,  you'll get a better finish from a No 3 or 4 smoother when properly set up than you will from, say, an EHL65 and a sander (assuming absolute quality is your goal without the constraints of working to a time schedule)

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 711
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2017, 05:40 PM »
You're right Tony.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2017, 03:29 PM »
Still carry a hand plane in my kit - not a frequent user but some sharp chisels and a small hand plane has saved the day too many times to leave any of them behind.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline andyman

  • Posts: 629
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2017, 05:25 PM »
Block and smoothing in my basic kit

Offline Harry1561

  • Posts: 39
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2017, 02:28 AM »
I always carry a block plane and Jack plane, still use them on a regular basis  8)I

Offline Billy stray

  • Posts: 288
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2017, 10:04 PM »
I use an ehl65 to hog off most of a Scribe but my Nielsen block plane is always the last couple passes
Billy

Offline JakobProgsch

  • Posts: 24
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2017, 05:19 AM »
When reading the title I thought the "carrying" was meant as in no shop carries them. Which was the issue I ran into as a hobbyist when I was trying to buy some planes. Apparently no one in Switzerland sells anything but those consumable blade planes. I had to order them from Germany.

Offline curiousdork

  • Posts: 46
  • I code and woodwork.
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2017, 01:11 PM »
One of the guys in my shop needed to remove around  3/32nd of material.  Instead of using a hand plane he spent nearly half an hour setting up the table saw for the cut.  Me?  A minute on my LV LA block plane and it's done.  I'm a newbie woodworker who started with tools and progressing to hand tools.  I have a myriad of power tools for rough and final dimensioning, but my go-to tools for precision are my chisels and hand planes.

Offline Goneshootin88

  • Posts: 34
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2017, 05:38 PM »
Sometimes I pull out my low angle block plane just to give the customers a show. They always make a comment about "real craftsmanship." Little do they realize, I'm just too lazy to walk back outside to the saw.


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Offline Macintyre

  • Posts: 1
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2017, 01:00 PM »
I'm an old guy, and I've been pushing a plane for fifty years. I've got a table saw, a jointer, etc., but when I'm a slosh shy of a fit (r a square), I can be done and moving on with another part of the job before I would even break out the electrics.

Offline curiousdork

  • Posts: 46
  • I code and woodwork.
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2017, 05:36 PM »
I'm an old guy, and I've been pushing a plane for fifty years. I've got a table saw, a jointer, etc., but when I'm a slosh shy of a fit (r a square), I can be done and moving on with another part of the job before I would even break out the electrics.

My first foray into woodworking involved the use of power tools.  Since I buy my lumber from local sawyer, it's often rough and requires flattening.  I've found that a jointer is indiscriminate in how much material it takes off.  When building a bookshelf for a friend I found that one of my pieces was cut unevenly on the bandsaw mill resulting in one side being thinner than the other.  To combat more material being removed I used my low angle jack and went to town where I needed material removed.  I managed to correct the issue, removed the twist, and flattened the board.

It's not that I think power tools are bad, but when you spend 20 minutes setting up a table saw when you need to remove 1/16th of materia, using a handplane is much, much faster.  I still use the table saw to dimension pieces but a lot of my flattening and smoothing are done through hand tools.  I'm looking forward to getting a plow plane, a router plane, and a rabbet/shoulder plane to do things like dadoes.

Offline Tim65

  • Posts: 1
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2017, 02:48 AM »
It's a sad state IMHO , even with modern power tools to get that exact finish you still need a few hand tools.
I always have my block plane to hand , also a record bull nose plane from my dad

Online Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 194
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2017, 03:54 PM »
My experience has been that hand tools such as planes, chisels, and hand saws are not uncommon on high end work. As the need for quality decreases, so do the skilled craftsmen and obviously hand tools.

In my site tool box I carry a few rasps, a card scraper, half a dozen chisels, japanese Ryoba, a LN 102, a LN 60 1/2 and a Record bull nose rabbet plane. (As well as other things) It's a rare day when I don't use hand tools, especially a block plane.

Many years ago I was seeking work as a finish carpentry subcontractor. My electrician suggested  a GC he worked with and recommend highly. I scheduled a meeting with, let's call him "Dave". Dave looked at my portfolio and heard me out, then kindly told me he preferred to keep his work in house, but if something came up he'd give me a call...

About a week later Dave called in a bit of a panic; To make a long story short, he needed 16" of custom exterior crown moulding in three days and he needed it bad. He'd tried every Millwork shop in the area and was told the same story over and over again. It would take a month and there was a 100' minimum order.

As a last resort he called me, I told him if gave me a piece of the existing crown, I could probably match it. It turned out to be a large but fairly simple moulding.

"Yup, I can do it, you'll have it Friday mid-morning"

Took about an hour & a half to make it from a piece of old growth redwood I had in the scrap bin using the table saw to rough it in and a combination of hollow and round planes as well as a custom shaped card scraper. A little sanding and it was a good match to the original. Coat of exterior primer and it was ready to be installed.

On my way to the job site I picked up coffee and donuts for the crew and still got there by the deadline. Dave was thrilled, (so was the crew) then he got that look you get, when you realize someone has something you need, but you haven't discussed the price...

"What do I owe you?" he wants to know. 

"Nothing" I say, "Maybe send some work my way?"

He just laughed. That was the start of a long and prosperous, to say nothing of enjoyable, business relationship.

Question for those who take bench planes, #3 and larger on site on site. What do you do with them? I used to carry a jack plane which I used for dressing edges, mostly doors and lumberyard 1X stock. After buying my first track saw I no longer saw the need.

John

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 322
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2017, 01:33 PM »
Question for those who take bench planes, #3 and larger on site on site. What do you do with them? I used to carry a jack plane which I used for dressing edges, mostly doors and lumberyard 1X stock. After buying my first track saw I no longer saw the need.

John

I have a Stanley Bailey 5 1/2 jackplane, its kind of handy for easing a door without having to carry a saw, tracks, sawstools, transformer, cables and extractor about on site.
Plus sometimes I don't even need to remove the door to ease it.

Also it gives a far better finish than any saw I've ever seen.
Even if I cut a door edge with a tracksaw, I still put a few strokes of effort in with a handplane to get a good finished edge.

Online Knight Woodworks

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Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2017, 04:37 PM »
Thanks. I agree, the door edges need to be tidied up and eased. I usually use a block plane as it only takes one or two swipes to remove the saw marks. A longer plane would be quicker and more accurate.

John

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 322
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2017, 05:58 PM »
Thanks. I agree, the door edges need to be tidied up and eased. I usually use a block plane as it only takes one or two swipes to remove the saw marks. A longer plane would be quicker and more accurate.

John

To be fair I sometimes use my blockplane for easing doors, just depends on whats closest to hand or how much I need to take off.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 70
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2017, 03:44 PM »
Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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Low angle planes with the bevel up work best on plywood.  I have a low angle jack from Lie-Nielsen, which I think is a totally overrated tool, but the one thing it does do better than a regular old jack plane is plywood edges alternating end and edge grain.  There's an argument that low angle planes work better on end grain than regular planes but I'm not persuaded. 

I know my argument doesn't make sense but I've tried out the plane in a lot of different situations and that's my conclusion.

Offline ear3

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Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2017, 06:53 AM »
Doing an art installation right now where I'm dressing out some large window frames with mahogany plywood.  Building/framing conditions are treacherous, as it's being built in a warehouse space with a janky concrete floor and so most of the panels have to be scribed to fit.  There's no way I can use a router to trim things, especially on the top of the frame where I'm working upside down, so I've been cutting my panels around the window boxes a tad pround and then flushing them with my LN rabbet block plane.  Knocks the plywood edge down right quick.

Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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Low angle planes with the bevel up work best on plywood.  I have a low angle jack from Lie-Nielsen, which I think is a totally overrated tool, but the one thing it does do better than a regular old jack plane is plywood edges alternating end and edge grain.  There's an argument that low angle planes work better on end grain than regular planes but I'm not persuaded. 

I know my argument doesn't make sense but I've tried out the plane in a lot of different situations and that's my conclusion.
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Offline awshucks

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Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2017, 01:31 PM »
My experience has been the same as the OP. I only own one plane, A low angle Stanley (a nice old one too). When I get it out someone always comments on my age (which is funny because Im not 50 yet). Although I use it for a hundred different tasks, one of the things it really excels at is scribing baseboard. I can cut a room, carry it in and scribe the whole floor while other guys are dragging each piece outside to use power planers and sanders. I would like to expand my collection too, starting with and most importantly a smoothing plane. Planning on doing some Luthier work and want one for thicknessing and smoothing. Anyone have one they recommend ? Traditional or Japanese doesn't really matter as much as effectiveness.

Online HarveyWildes

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Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2017, 03:09 PM »
I like Lee Valley for the combination of PMV-11 plane blades (optional) with western adjustments.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 16
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2017, 05:34 PM »
What do you guys all use to keep everything sharp? I've just bought my first hand plane but will probably end up with at least 4 or 5 plus some chisels - a Japanese waterstone seems like it'd get old really quickly.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 711
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2017, 08:51 PM »
I use a Worksharp 3000 which I bought an extra glass plate
for so I could have a couple more grits setup and ready to go.

There may be better methods but this is fast and easy to touch
up a chisel or plane iron (up to 2" wide) with.

Before that I did the scary sharp method which also works well.

Thing is find the method that works for you and gives you the
results you want. There are varying levels on investment to achieve
the same end result, but none of them work unless you follow the
procedure and don't skip steps. Shortcuts lead to shortcomings.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2017, 10:32 PM »
Anyone who doesn't respect a good handplane is not a good Carpenter IMO

Offline rst

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Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2017, 07:16 AM »
I use the DMT Dia - Sharp 8x3 bench stones, coarse, fine, extra fine, extra extra fine to sharpen my chisels and planes.  I don't bother with any special fluids...I use the orange based cleaning fluid that I use for general cleanup.

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 169
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2017, 09:07 AM »
What do you guys all use to keep everything sharp? I've just bought my first hand plane but will probably end up with at least 4 or 5 plus some chisels - a Japanese waterstone seems like it'd get old really quickly

I picked up M Powers FASTTRACK sharpening system for touch ups on site, and really find it simple and handy....everything in a tough canvas pouch, I find myself using it all the time and not just for touch ups. Saw it on sale for $115 recently w/ Woodpeckers



« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 09:12 AM by Vondawg »
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1022
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2017, 07:33 AM »
@Vondawg A Tormek T7 with a few extra jigs does most of my sharpening in the workshop but on site a couple of diamond stones used freehand works for me.

As to the OP, I am a great proponent of hand planes and always have a few with me on jobs away from the workshop.
My block plane is with me when I go to look at some jobs, great for door easing on the fly and can win that job before the quote goes in.

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 265
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2017, 08:13 AM »
They really should be investing more time teaching people about hand planes in trade schools.  They’re an invaluable tool for a lot of common tasks.  Real wood workers should know how to do things by hand and with power tools.

There’s lot of jobs where the hand plane will produce superior results.  The end grain cleaned up with a block plane will be cleaner than one that was sanded. 

Jointer planes can do a better with boards that are warped than a bench jointer. 

Smoothing planes can produce a better surface for French polishing.  Rounding planes can give a table a rounded smooth edge faster than a trim router without sanding to clean-up tooth marks.

We need to teach the kids about hand planes while their in high school.  This way they’ll grow-up appreciating the value of what hand tools can do.



 

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 67
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2017, 09:36 AM »
This thread has got me looking into getting a block plane to start. I can already see its benefits. I'm just starting out as a hobbyist.

Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2017, 06:39 PM »
My experience has been the same as the OP. I only own one plane, A low angle Stanley (a nice old one too). When I get it out someone always comments on my age (which is funny because Im not 50 yet). Although I use it for a hundred different tasks, one of the things it really excels at is scribing baseboard. I can cut a room, carry it in and scribe the whole floor while other guys are dragging each piece outside to use power planers and sanders. I would like to expand my collection too, starting with and most importantly a smoothing plane. Planning on doing some Luthier work and want one for thicknessing and smoothing. Anyone have one they recommend ? Traditional or Japanese doesn't really matter as much as effectiveness.

I also use a old Stanley as my go to hand plane for the same tasks - and many more. I am not 50 yet either and most people have been happy to see someone who is still using "real tools". They are "amazed" at the curled shavings after I told them they don't need to bring out a vac, and then just scoop it up with my hands when done, leaving nothing behind for the cleaning sticklers to fret about.

I hooked up a friend to one of my Veritas low angle planes after renovating his house. He saw the potential and I was happy to help spread the love for hand tools. Also hooked him up with a japanese saw. :)
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Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 265
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2017, 08:33 PM »
If you’re going to do a pain staking finish like a French polish, hand planes and card scrapers are going to produce a superior result since they don’t scratch the surface vs sanding.

A French polished surface will still look great with a good sanding technique.  The grain clarity won’t be the same as a surface finished with smoothing planes and card scrapers. 

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 93
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2017, 05:07 PM »
I pull out my hand plane and know he back off a panel to get a snug fit to some casing. The builder was like what the heck are you doing? Fitting this panel. He yells at the out side guys and asks if any of them have a hand plane. They all laugh.
You are working for a complete moron (and as a foreman carpenter and joiner I've worked for a few over the years). Over here in the UK I'd expect any carpenter doing 2nd fix (trim) carpentry work for me to own at least a low angle block plane and for that plane to be razor sharp - same goes for his chisels. How else can you adjust mitres, panels, etc. You'd be surprised at how few of the younger ones can actually sharpen tools by hand and who expect to get through a day working on oak without sharpening (whereas I need to hone every 10 to 20 strokes)

Personally I carry a Wood River #65, a Clifton #4110 3-in-1 (shoulder rebate/bull nose rebate/chisel), a spokeshave, a Stanley #5 jack plane and a Veritas #95 edge plane. They all get used, but TBH most guys here have never seen a 3-in-1 nor used a spokeshave (the #95 is a real mystery to them) and the brighter ones tend to be blown away by what can be done with them without the need to resort to sanding or tedious cutting on a mitre saw (and often not even then).

In the last year having a few hand tools, a router and scrapers has got me out of a number of scrapes on historic buildings where there was an urgent need for a few feet of a specialised moulding to be run, but the client simply couldn't justify the cost of setting-up and running it. In those cases my basic kit was used to provide a more than acceptable replacement - good enough to pass muster with the Conservation Officer. But it ain't rocket science when all said and done

I suppose that is my age showing, or maybe I'm turning into a curmudgeon after all! Bah! Humbug!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 05:16 PM by Job and Knock »
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2347
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2017, 06:04 PM »
Lee Valley sold a kit that would help those in need a a quick hand tool solution;

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71776

Just the block plane alone is a very useful tool.  I had a guy bring a worn oak threshold to my shop to see if I could cut it thinner on my table saw since his elderly parents were having such a difficult time getting over it without tripping.  A few minutes later holding it in my hands I used the block plane to cut down and flatten the warped board.  I told him that pushing short thin waves boards through the table saw was looking for disaster.  Hand tools have their place!

here is the Veritas block plane that replaced my old block plane which could never hold it setting in a deep cut;

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=61963&cat=1,41182,48942

This is an excellent plane and will last a lifetime.

Jack
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 06:14 PM by jacko9 »

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Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 117
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2017, 12:41 AM »
A lot of the cheaper homes being built or remodeled these days are full of MDF, which I'm guessing doesn't plain well or at all, but I've never tried before.

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.


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Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2347
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2017, 01:57 AM »
A lot of the cheaper homes being built or remodeled these days are full of MDF, which I'm guessing doesn't plain well or at all, but I've never tried before.

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look at Lee Valley's Veritas Mk2 sharpening kit.  You can keep all your planes in razor sharp condition with a 500 and 1000 grit water stone.  Look for the splash and go stones like Shapton Glass Stones.

Jack

Offline J Voos

  • Posts: 19
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2017, 03:34 AM »
As a furniture making hobbyist for 35+ years, I found that my work was limited by my routine use of power tools.  My work was defined by the limitations of power tools, and I began working and learning more about hand tools.  I studied Japanese woodworking, joinery, as well as spending two summers at the Krenov School in Fort Bragg.  This changed my woodworking for the better.

Although pieces take more time, they have a subtlety to them that was missing before.  Highly recommended that woodworkers up their game in the use of hand tools.  Although time is money, higher quality work can also be rewarded.

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 907
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2017, 06:53 AM »
A lot of the cheaper homes being built or remodeled these days are full of MDF, which I'm guessing doesn't plain well or at all, but I've never tried before.

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your in for a surprise once you have your planes sharpened up, try them out on some MDF, it won't be  as satisfying as planing wood but the end results should be really good.

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 56
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2017, 11:12 AM »
Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.

I've never used this technique, but Rob Cosman makes the whole sharpening process look so fast and easy: https://youtu.be/bx-D9hsaosM?t=3m54s.  He actually makes it look fun.  He has numerous videos where he shows how to sharpen a plane blade.  He also has several videos how to setup a brand new Woodriver planed from right out of the box.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1569
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2017, 11:59 AM »
I bought four DMT Dia-Sharp stones, (course, fine, extra fine, and extra extra fine)  though Lee Valley along with their honing guide and really like the results.  I spent most of my woodworking experience working with power tools but have been steadily discovering that for custom work, hand tools are often quicker, give better results and are more time efficient.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 836
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2017, 12:26 PM »
I am a site carpenter, I carry a Lie Neilsen 60 1/2 with an extra blade and a Stanley Bedrock 604.

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 83
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2017, 12:29 PM »
Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them. Recently I bought 2 Woodriver planes, but I'm waiting to use them until my dad can help tune/sharpen them.

I've never used this technique, but Rob Cosman makes the whole sharpening process look so fast and easy: https://youtu.be/bx-D9hsaosM?t=3m54s.  He actually makes it look fun.  He has numerous videos where he shows how to sharpen a plane blade.  He also has several videos how to setup a brand new Woodriver planed from right out of the box.

I'm going down the Cosman sharpening path... got the Trend diamond plate and the Shapton stones (finally in stock again) and even the additive for the water you spritz on the stones... I can't confidently maintain the bevel by feel yet, but I think I'm getting better at it with the limited time I have to play on weekends. I DID resort to using the Veritas sharpening guide as an interim measure. The "ruler trick" for the back bevel was something completely new to me, and seems to many to be a wonderful sharpening innovation... I recommend this method highly.
Larry

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 93
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2017, 05:44 AM »
A lot of the cheaper homes being built or remodeled these days are full of MDF, which I'm guessing doesn't plain well or at all, but I've never tried before.
As said elsewhere it actually planes very well providing your iron is sharp - but it knocks the edge off the irons pretty quickly (all the resins in it)

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them.
OK. I'll give you that. Our last apprentice has been taught at college that you need a honing jig to sharpen a plane iron. Yeah, like that's going to work on a job site........ Two of us "old timers" showed him how to touch-up a blade freehand using a figure-8 motion - you can use the jig at home when you have the time. His college tutor apparently censured him for doing that!  [eek]
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1022
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2017, 07:09 AM »

As said elsewhere it actually planes very well providing your iron is sharp - but it knocks the edge off the irons pretty quickly (all the resins in it)

Another reason a lot of carpenters probably don't carry planes is because they were never taught how to sharpen them.
OK. I'll give you that. Our last apprentice has been taught at college that you need a honing jig to sharpen a plane iron. Yeah, like that's going to work on a job site........ Two of us "old timers" showed him how to touch-up a blade freehand using a figure-8 motion - you can use the jig at home when you have the time. His college tutor apparently censured him for doing that!  [eek]

Sadly the powers that be don't want to train up craftsmen and women the way they used to be, a guy I know got a teaching job at a local college and is absolutely rubbish at actually making stuff but boy can he talk the talk! [wink]

I spent a morning sharpening tools the other day and counted how many planes I have in the shop............29.
I think I may have a problem other than the Festool one.

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2017, 07:28 AM »
Sadly the powers that be don't want to train up craftsmen and women the way they used to be, a guy I know got a teaching job at a local college and is absolutely rubbish at actually making stuff but boy can he talk the talk! [wink]

I have an apprentice and her teachers at school are the type who have never worked at a small shipyard a day in their lives. I constantly had to un-teach her everything they teached her at school. Luckily she has now reached the point that she does whatever they want her to do at school to get her diploma and when school is out she throws it out the window. When she's at work in my company she does things the right way.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1569
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2017, 09:12 AM »
Those that can do...do, those that cannot teach

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1445
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2017, 11:49 AM »
Quote
Luckily she has now reached the point that she does whatever they want her to do at school to get her diploma and when school is out she throws it out the window. When she's at work in my company she does things the right way.

This has been my observation of formalized education across many fields.  Schooling very rarely trains the student to do a job. 

Online HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 606
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2017, 04:53 PM »
Red Rocks Community College in Denver used to hire in people who were working at what they were teaching.  They had a great program for quite a long time - they had two department heads who believed in that strategy.  For various reasons both of the heads that I knew are gone now, but from the website it looks like they are still hiring experience.

I took a bunch of classes there, which exposed me to a lot of different perspectives and tools.  The best part was sitting around talking about design and techniques.  There was one guy who had about 40 years of high-end architectural woodworking under his belt, and is still doing it as far as I know.  He had an awesome ability to describe practical ways to do high quality work quickly.

I keep hearing rumors that there is tension in the administration about whether or not to keep the program.  Personally I think it would be a huge mistake to cancel it.

Lemwise mentioned that he had to train a new employee by getting her to unlearn what she had learned at school and re-learn things the way that his company does things.  I think that's always the case to some degree, because every company that has figured out how to make money by quality craftsmanship has ways of doing things that are uniquely tailored to a process that gets the right quality of work done quickly for that company - part of the competitive advantage.  I don't know about the school in question, but I would hope that it is not totally incompetent.  I think a good craftsman matures into a personal style of work over time, and that all their earlier experiences in the craft (including schools & work) are just grist for the mill that eventually creates and evolves their mature style.  That said, the better the grist, the better the resulting craft :).