Author Topic: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.  (Read 15606 times)

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 717
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2017, 05:40 PM »
You're right Tony.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

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Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2017, 03:29 PM »
Still carry a hand plane in my kit - not a frequent user but some sharp chisels and a small hand plane has saved the day too many times to leave any of them behind.
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Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
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Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline andyman

  • Posts: 629
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2017, 05:25 PM »
Block and smoothing in my basic kit

Offline Harry1561

  • Posts: 40
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2017, 02:28 AM »
I always carry a block plane and Jack plane, still use them on a regular basis  8)I

Offline Billy stray

  • Posts: 290
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2017, 10:04 PM »
I use an ehl65 to hog off most of a Scribe but my Nielsen block plane is always the last couple passes
Billy

Offline JakobProgsch

  • Posts: 24
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2017, 05:19 AM »
When reading the title I thought the "carrying" was meant as in no shop carries them. Which was the issue I ran into as a hobbyist when I was trying to buy some planes. Apparently no one in Switzerland sells anything but those consumable blade planes. I had to order them from Germany.

Offline curiousdork

  • Posts: 46
  • I code and woodwork.
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2017, 01:11 PM »
One of the guys in my shop needed to remove around  3/32nd of material.  Instead of using a hand plane he spent nearly half an hour setting up the table saw for the cut.  Me?  A minute on my LV LA block plane and it's done.  I'm a newbie woodworker who started with tools and progressing to hand tools.  I have a myriad of power tools for rough and final dimensioning, but my go-to tools for precision are my chisels and hand planes.

Offline Goneshootin88

  • Posts: 34
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2017, 05:38 PM »
Sometimes I pull out my low angle block plane just to give the customers a show. They always make a comment about "real craftsmanship." Little do they realize, I'm just too lazy to walk back outside to the saw.


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Offline Macintyre

  • Posts: 1
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2017, 01:00 PM »
I'm an old guy, and I've been pushing a plane for fifty years. I've got a table saw, a jointer, etc., but when I'm a slosh shy of a fit (r a square), I can be done and moving on with another part of the job before I would even break out the electrics.

Offline curiousdork

  • Posts: 46
  • I code and woodwork.
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2017, 05:36 PM »
I'm an old guy, and I've been pushing a plane for fifty years. I've got a table saw, a jointer, etc., but when I'm a slosh shy of a fit (r a square), I can be done and moving on with another part of the job before I would even break out the electrics.

My first foray into woodworking involved the use of power tools.  Since I buy my lumber from local sawyer, it's often rough and requires flattening.  I've found that a jointer is indiscriminate in how much material it takes off.  When building a bookshelf for a friend I found that one of my pieces was cut unevenly on the bandsaw mill resulting in one side being thinner than the other.  To combat more material being removed I used my low angle jack and went to town where I needed material removed.  I managed to correct the issue, removed the twist, and flattened the board.

It's not that I think power tools are bad, but when you spend 20 minutes setting up a table saw when you need to remove 1/16th of materia, using a handplane is much, much faster.  I still use the table saw to dimension pieces but a lot of my flattening and smoothing are done through hand tools.  I'm looking forward to getting a plow plane, a router plane, and a rabbet/shoulder plane to do things like dadoes.

Offline Tim65

  • Posts: 1
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2017, 02:48 AM »
It's a sad state IMHO , even with modern power tools to get that exact finish you still need a few hand tools.
I always have my block plane to hand , also a record bull nose plane from my dad

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 195
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2017, 03:54 PM »
My experience has been that hand tools such as planes, chisels, and hand saws are not uncommon on high end work. As the need for quality decreases, so do the skilled craftsmen and obviously hand tools.

In my site tool box I carry a few rasps, a card scraper, half a dozen chisels, japanese Ryoba, a LN 102, a LN 60 1/2 and a Record bull nose rabbet plane. (As well as other things) It's a rare day when I don't use hand tools, especially a block plane.

Many years ago I was seeking work as a finish carpentry subcontractor. My electrician suggested  a GC he worked with and recommend highly. I scheduled a meeting with, let's call him "Dave". Dave looked at my portfolio and heard me out, then kindly told me he preferred to keep his work in house, but if something came up he'd give me a call...

About a week later Dave called in a bit of a panic; To make a long story short, he needed 16" of custom exterior crown moulding in three days and he needed it bad. He'd tried every Millwork shop in the area and was told the same story over and over again. It would take a month and there was a 100' minimum order.

As a last resort he called me, I told him if gave me a piece of the existing crown, I could probably match it. It turned out to be a large but fairly simple moulding.

"Yup, I can do it, you'll have it Friday mid-morning"

Took about an hour & a half to make it from a piece of old growth redwood I had in the scrap bin using the table saw to rough it in and a combination of hollow and round planes as well as a custom shaped card scraper. A little sanding and it was a good match to the original. Coat of exterior primer and it was ready to be installed.

On my way to the job site I picked up coffee and donuts for the crew and still got there by the deadline. Dave was thrilled, (so was the crew) then he got that look you get, when you realize someone has something you need, but you haven't discussed the price...

"What do I owe you?" he wants to know. 

"Nothing" I say, "Maybe send some work my way?"

He just laughed. That was the start of a long and prosperous, to say nothing of enjoyable, business relationship.

Question for those who take bench planes, #3 and larger on site on site. What do you do with them? I used to carry a jack plane which I used for dressing edges, mostly doors and lumberyard 1X stock. After buying my first track saw I no longer saw the need.

John

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 324
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2017, 01:33 PM »
Question for those who take bench planes, #3 and larger on site on site. What do you do with them? I used to carry a jack plane which I used for dressing edges, mostly doors and lumberyard 1X stock. After buying my first track saw I no longer saw the need.

John

I have a Stanley Bailey 5 1/2 jackplane, its kind of handy for easing a door without having to carry a saw, tracks, sawstools, transformer, cables and extractor about on site.
Plus sometimes I don't even need to remove the door to ease it.

Also it gives a far better finish than any saw I've ever seen.
Even if I cut a door edge with a tracksaw, I still put a few strokes of effort in with a handplane to get a good finished edge.

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 195
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2017, 04:37 PM »
Thanks. I agree, the door edges need to be tidied up and eased. I usually use a block plane as it only takes one or two swipes to remove the saw marks. A longer plane would be quicker and more accurate.

John

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 324
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2017, 05:58 PM »
Thanks. I agree, the door edges need to be tidied up and eased. I usually use a block plane as it only takes one or two swipes to remove the saw marks. A longer plane would be quicker and more accurate.

John

To be fair I sometimes use my blockplane for easing doors, just depends on whats closest to hand or how much I need to take off.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 70
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2017, 03:44 PM »
Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


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Low angle planes with the bevel up work best on plywood.  I have a low angle jack from Lie-Nielsen, which I think is a totally overrated tool, but the one thing it does do better than a regular old jack plane is plywood edges alternating end and edge grain.  There's an argument that low angle planes work better on end grain than regular planes but I'm not persuaded. 

I know my argument doesn't make sense but I've tried out the plane in a lot of different situations and that's my conclusion.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3406
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2017, 06:53 AM »
Doing an art installation right now where I'm dressing out some large window frames with mahogany plywood.  Building/framing conditions are treacherous, as it's being built in a warehouse space with a janky concrete floor and so most of the panels have to be scribed to fit.  There's no way I can use a router to trim things, especially on the top of the frame where I'm working upside down, so I've been cutting my panels around the window boxes a tad pround and then flushing them with my LN rabbet block plane.  Knocks the plywood edge down right quick.

Maybe this is sacrilegious, but what would be the right type of plane for tuning 3/4" plywood edges?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Low angle planes with the bevel up work best on plywood.  I have a low angle jack from Lie-Nielsen, which I think is a totally overrated tool, but the one thing it does do better than a regular old jack plane is plywood edges alternating end and edge grain.  There's an argument that low angle planes work better on end grain than regular planes but I'm not persuaded. 

I know my argument doesn't make sense but I've tried out the plane in a lot of different situations and that's my conclusion.
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Offline awshucks

  • Posts: 15
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2017, 01:31 PM »
My experience has been the same as the OP. I only own one plane, A low angle Stanley (a nice old one too). When I get it out someone always comments on my age (which is funny because Im not 50 yet). Although I use it for a hundred different tasks, one of the things it really excels at is scribing baseboard. I can cut a room, carry it in and scribe the whole floor while other guys are dragging each piece outside to use power planers and sanders. I would like to expand my collection too, starting with and most importantly a smoothing plane. Planning on doing some Luthier work and want one for thicknessing and smoothing. Anyone have one they recommend ? Traditional or Japanese doesn't really matter as much as effectiveness.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 610
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2017, 03:09 PM »
I like Lee Valley for the combination of PMV-11 plane blades (optional) with western adjustments.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 16
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2017, 05:34 PM »
What do you guys all use to keep everything sharp? I've just bought my first hand plane but will probably end up with at least 4 or 5 plus some chisels - a Japanese waterstone seems like it'd get old really quickly.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 717
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2017, 08:51 PM »
I use a Worksharp 3000 which I bought an extra glass plate
for so I could have a couple more grits setup and ready to go.

There may be better methods but this is fast and easy to touch
up a chisel or plane iron (up to 2" wide) with.

Before that I did the scary sharp method which also works well.

Thing is find the method that works for you and gives you the
results you want. There are varying levels on investment to achieve
the same end result, but none of them work unless you follow the
procedure and don't skip steps. Shortcuts lead to shortcomings.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2017, 10:32 PM »
Anyone who doesn't respect a good handplane is not a good Carpenter IMO

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1571
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2017, 07:16 AM »
I use the DMT Dia - Sharp 8x3 bench stones, coarse, fine, extra fine, extra extra fine to sharpen my chisels and planes.  I don't bother with any special fluids...I use the orange based cleaning fluid that I use for general cleanup.

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 169
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2017, 09:07 AM »
What do you guys all use to keep everything sharp? I've just bought my first hand plane but will probably end up with at least 4 or 5 plus some chisels - a Japanese waterstone seems like it'd get old really quickly

I picked up M Powers FASTTRACK sharpening system for touch ups on site, and really find it simple and handy....everything in a tough canvas pouch, I find myself using it all the time and not just for touch ups. Saw it on sale for $115 recently w/ Woodpeckers



« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 09:12 AM by Vondawg »
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1026
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2017, 07:33 AM »
@Vondawg A Tormek T7 with a few extra jigs does most of my sharpening in the workshop but on site a couple of diamond stones used freehand works for me.

As to the OP, I am a great proponent of hand planes and always have a few with me on jobs away from the workshop.
My block plane is with me when I go to look at some jobs, great for door easing on the fly and can win that job before the quote goes in.

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 265
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2017, 08:13 AM »
They really should be investing more time teaching people about hand planes in trade schools.  They’re an invaluable tool for a lot of common tasks.  Real wood workers should know how to do things by hand and with power tools.

There’s lot of jobs where the hand plane will produce superior results.  The end grain cleaned up with a block plane will be cleaner than one that was sanded. 

Jointer planes can do a better with boards that are warped than a bench jointer. 

Smoothing planes can produce a better surface for French polishing.  Rounding planes can give a table a rounded smooth edge faster than a trim router without sanding to clean-up tooth marks.

We need to teach the kids about hand planes while their in high school.  This way they’ll grow-up appreciating the value of what hand tools can do.



 

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 68
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2017, 09:36 AM »
This thread has got me looking into getting a block plane to start. I can already see its benefits. I'm just starting out as a hobbyist.

Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2017, 06:39 PM »
My experience has been the same as the OP. I only own one plane, A low angle Stanley (a nice old one too). When I get it out someone always comments on my age (which is funny because Im not 50 yet). Although I use it for a hundred different tasks, one of the things it really excels at is scribing baseboard. I can cut a room, carry it in and scribe the whole floor while other guys are dragging each piece outside to use power planers and sanders. I would like to expand my collection too, starting with and most importantly a smoothing plane. Planning on doing some Luthier work and want one for thicknessing and smoothing. Anyone have one they recommend ? Traditional or Japanese doesn't really matter as much as effectiveness.

I also use a old Stanley as my go to hand plane for the same tasks - and many more. I am not 50 yet either and most people have been happy to see someone who is still using "real tools". They are "amazed" at the curled shavings after I told them they don't need to bring out a vac, and then just scoop it up with my hands when done, leaving nothing behind for the cleaning sticklers to fret about.

I hooked up a friend to one of my Veritas low angle planes after renovating his house. He saw the potential and I was happy to help spread the love for hand tools. Also hooked him up with a japanese saw. :)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 265
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2017, 08:33 PM »
If you’re going to do a pain staking finish like a French polish, hand planes and card scrapers are going to produce a superior result since they don’t scratch the surface vs sanding.

A French polished surface will still look great with a good sanding technique.  The grain clarity won’t be the same as a surface finished with smoothing planes and card scrapers. 

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 93
Re: Astounding no one carries a plane anymore.
« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2017, 05:07 PM »
I pull out my hand plane and know he back off a panel to get a snug fit to some casing. The builder was like what the heck are you doing? Fitting this panel. He yells at the out side guys and asks if any of them have a hand plane. They all laugh.
You are working for a complete moron (and as a foreman carpenter and joiner I've worked for a few over the years). Over here in the UK I'd expect any carpenter doing 2nd fix (trim) carpentry work for me to own at least a low angle block plane and for that plane to be razor sharp - same goes for his chisels. How else can you adjust mitres, panels, etc. You'd be surprised at how few of the younger ones can actually sharpen tools by hand and who expect to get through a day working on oak without sharpening (whereas I need to hone every 10 to 20 strokes)

Personally I carry a Wood River #65, a Clifton #4110 3-in-1 (shoulder rebate/bull nose rebate/chisel), a spokeshave, a Stanley #5 jack plane and a Veritas #95 edge plane. They all get used, but TBH most guys here have never seen a 3-in-1 nor used a spokeshave (the #95 is a real mystery to them) and the brighter ones tend to be blown away by what can be done with them without the need to resort to sanding or tedious cutting on a mitre saw (and often not even then).

In the last year having a few hand tools, a router and scrapers has got me out of a number of scrapes on historic buildings where there was an urgent need for a few feet of a specialised moulding to be run, but the client simply couldn't justify the cost of setting-up and running it. In those cases my basic kit was used to provide a more than acceptable replacement - good enough to pass muster with the Conservation Officer. But it ain't rocket science when all said and done

I suppose that is my age showing, or maybe I'm turning into a curmudgeon after all! Bah! Humbug!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 05:16 PM by Job and Knock »
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
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