Author Topic: Chisels  (Read 7610 times)

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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Chisels
« on: July 01, 2018, 08:54 PM »
I’ve started learning hand cut dovetails. I’d like to buy a set of really nice chisels. If cost was not a factor, what should I buy?
Birdhunter

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Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 234
Re: Chisels
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2018, 10:10 PM »
Barr are nice.  Forged heavier than most premium chisels around these days I think.  I like the mass for chopping.

Blue Spruce and Harold & Saxon make some fine chisels too, as do Japanese makers if you can tolerate the Japanese style. 

I bought a Veritas chisel and it cuts well enough. Too light for my taste and I like a ferule when I chop.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 171
Re: Chisels
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 01:06 AM »
I'm not an expert by any means, but I believe learning to sharpen and whet properly and quickly is a bigger factor than which brand chisel you use. Maybe you're already proficient, I don't know.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2018, 05:09 AM »
Ive been using diamond stones and a Lie-Nielsen roller guide. I bought a set of Narex Premium chisels. I’ve had to really work to flatten the backs as they were pretty wavy. I can get them shiny sharp on the XX  Fine stone. I am not sure if the secondary bevel is necessary.

Learning a lot.
Birdhunter

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 320
Re: Chisels
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2018, 07:18 AM »
The Japanese still make some of the nicest "proper" dovetail chisels.  These tend (not exclusively, however) to have a hard thin layer of cast steel forge-laminated to a softer protective steel backing.  Hard steel is brittle steel, however, which will require careful storage, usage & sharpening techniques.

By "proper" dovetailers I'm referring to those extremely rare true triangular sectioned chisels, not bevelled-edged as is most common these days.  The parallel (in both planes) sides of b/e chisels effectively precludes their use in stopped dovetail housings (i.e. half-laps).  Any face-lapping of true triangular chisels will of course progressively reduce their effective width:  not really that big an issue as they're generally only used for end-grain paring.  Cheaper, more disposable chisels can be used for the majority of non-critical roughing work.

A home-made or ground "fishtail" chisel can also be an extremely useful addition too.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 223
Re: Chisels
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2018, 07:39 AM »
Chisels are a personal thing. If possible, it would be good to hold a few different brands to see what works for you.

I have owned 80's era Marples, Stanley, Two Cherries, Robert Sorby, Barr, Lie Nielson and an assortment of vintage makers. Of these I prefer the LN. If I were buying today I'd take a hard look at Veritas.

John

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 146
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Chisels
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2018, 08:15 AM »
I own sets of - And prefer:
Octagonal Boxwood Handle Beveled Edged Bench Chisels - Robert Sorby
English Style Mortise (“pig sticker”) Chisels - Ray Isles

The Robert Sorby chisels handle well, stay sharp, and cut clean.
The Ray Isles chisels - Hard to come by - Are more of a “collector set” -
As I now do my mortise and tenon joinery with my Festool 500/700 Domino Joiners and my Leigh FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 08:49 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5151
Re: Chisels
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2018, 10:31 AM »

I use Pfeil which is a Swiss brand, for real wood working projects. They take a very nice edge, stay sharp and can be purchased from Woodcraft.

I also use plastic handled Stanley's for rough carpentry projects. While I try not to hit metallic objects, it has happened and they hold up quite well.

I've owned the Stanley's for the last 35 years and the Pfeil's for the last 25 years.

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 223
Re: Chisels
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2018, 11:36 AM »


The Robert Sorby chisels handle well, stay sharp, and cut clean.


Joe, I have had a set of the octagonal boxwood Sorbys for about 20 years. They don't hold an edge worth a darn. Glad yours work well.

John

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 146
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Chisels
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2018, 12:04 PM »
Hey John:
Sorry to hear that. But... You may be right.
I thought the same about mine - 'Till I learned how to sharpen 'em like they were "razors". Wouldn't trade 'em.
And... I confess -
I'm kinda "anal" about my chisels and hand planes - In that they get a lot more "attention" than they probably really need (and most dude's would give 'em).
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 12:30 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 223
Re: Chisels
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2018, 02:47 PM »
My main issue was edge retention. Haven't touched them in years, as I recall I could get them sharp enough to shave the hair on the back of my arm and pare white pine end grain. They just wouldn't hold an edge. My other issue were the hoops. The movement of the basswood was enough to break them.  About ten years ago I got a set of LN, been happy every since. Though as I say the Veritas are appealing.

John

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 146
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Chisels
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2018, 03:25 PM »
John:
Glad that you found what works for you.

I live outside Colorado Springs, CO - At an altitude of 7,500’.
The humidity here is low - Usually between 15%-35%. (We love it.)
The good news is that my tools stay nice and dry - Never any rust problems -
Not like when we lived in Virginia Beach, VA.
But... Periodically... The wood on a hand tool - “Shrinks/Tightens up”.
The metal hoops on a couple of my Sorby’s came loose.
I applied a little Titebond III (what I had at the time) to the wood handle collar -
And snugged the collar rings back up on ‘em. Worked like a charm.
I’ve used ‘em pretty hard since then. No problems.

BTW... I agree with you, wholeheartedly, regarding Lie-Nielsen.
I own/use about every Lie-Nielsen hand plane they make.
And... Smile every time I pick one up.
Everything L-N makes is beautiful to look at. And even more gratifying to use.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 03:48 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 680
Re: Chisels
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2018, 04:49 PM »
Whether costs were a factor or not, I find short chisels like these the best because

a) I always sit on a stool when chopping
b) with the short handles, I don't have to raise my arm high up:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70931&cat=1,41504 (chisels b to d would be my choices)

Your work habit may differ and therefore my recommendation may not suit you. Sitting down whenever possible has allowed me to work in a prolonged period of time without feeling worn out afterwards.

By the way, I do not own the Veritas butt chisels, and have only one from the more affordable version: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=30029&cat=1,41504

I replaced the plastic handle with a wooden one, and reground it to 30*. It is my go-to chopping chisel, even though I also have the Narex, Veritas chisels (non butt) and Ashley Isles.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 09:56 AM by ChuckM »

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 125
Re: Chisels
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2018, 06:11 PM »
I have, and use, the following sets of chisels.

Veritas PM-V11, each width they offer in their bench chisel lineup. I use these the most often when I plan on striking the chisel with a mallet, but don’t hesitate to use them for paring if they are conveniently at hand when such tasks arise.

Lie-Nielsen bench chisels. Again each size they offer. I usually grab these for paring and fitting of joints. I tend to avoid using a mallet on them since I got the Veritas, but previously used them that way, and still would if the Veritas were unavailable.

Narex paring chisels, set of four. I use these when I need a longer reach. They don’t have the edge retention of the previous two premium sets, but they came without the premium price that accompanied such chisels. Narex are a good value, but require considerably more work to get them setup while the two premium sets above come pretty much requiring only a hone before putting them to use.

A set of 30 yr old Bracht chisels, bought from Leichtung Workshops during the 80s. They were my first set and they are still used regularly, more for general tasks, but they’ll still do whatever task you ask of em.

Also have a 4 pc set of Footprint chisels with the blue plastic handles. They stay in my construction bag, and get used for any task that arises when away from the shop. They sharpen well and edge retention is decent.  A great set for what they are used for.

Also have a set of boxwood handled Marples mortising chisels. I only use them for chopping mortises and they function well in that capacity.

Having many chisels allows me to sharpen less frequently as I do not have a dedicated sharpening station and have to pull out my stuff and then store it again after I’ve gotten my tools back into cutting shape. I’m able to just grab another chisel, from another set if need be, and continue what I’m doing.

If I were to have only one set, it would probably be the Veritas PM-V11.

Mind you, these are all European style chisels. If you want to consider Japanese chisels, there is a whole nother world there to explore, (and you can pretty much spend whatever “high amount” you’re capable of.)
Clint

TSC 55, TS 55, TS 75, HKC 55, DF 500, DF 700, Kapex 120, UG Ext. Wings, MFK 700, OF 1010, OF 1400, OF 2200, CT 22, CT 26, ETS 150/3, ETS EQ 150/5, PRO 5, DTS 400, RO 90, RO 150, CXS, DWC 18-4500, MFT Kapex, MFT 3 (2), MFT 800, MFT 1080

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 805
Re: Chisels
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2018, 07:18 PM »
For dovetailing, my vote goes to PMV-11 chisels from Lee Valley.  I've owned Record (older), Sorby, Lie Nielsen, newer Stanley Sweetheart, and some moderately priced Japanese chisels.  I currently use PMV-11 for fine work and Record for beater chisels.  Japanese chisels hold an edge longer, but PMV-11 comes close and I like the ergonomics better.

I'd suggest that you look at Derek Cohen's web pages - he has some very analytical articles on chisels that I like, and he is an Aussie, so using hard wood is just par for the course.

I also prefer dovetailing approaches that hog out most of the dovetail with a saw, and then use chisels for paring.  I try to avoid "chopping" dovetails.  That reduces the force needed to use the chisels to hand or light mallet use.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2018, 09:07 PM »
In my journey in learning dovetail joints, I’ve progressed from horrible to mediocre. But, I am making progress.

I own just about every LN plane and delight in their use so I’m inclined toward their chisels.

What sizes do I need?
Birdhunter

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2640
Re: Chisels
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2018, 12:41 AM »
...
I own just about every LN plane and delight in their use so I’m inclined toward their chisels.

What sizes do I need?

The LN chisels are socket chisels, which means that the handle will easily come on and off. Some like this feature, and some do not. So, should you chose to go with the LNs, you may wish to purchase just a single chisel to start to see if you like them or not. If getting your first, I suggest getting 1/2" to start.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 223
Re: Chisels
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2018, 08:58 AM »
Agreed, start with a 1/2". Then let the work dictate your next purchase.

Consider a fishtail or a pair of skewed chisels for cleaning up hard to reach corners. I'm happy with my Blue Spruce fishtails.

John

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 680
Re: Chisels
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2018, 09:56 AM »
Sounds like you have done some dovetails already. What sizes did you use? How comfortable did each size feel to you? And how well could you control the chisel or cuts? Your past experience would be a more reliable guide to choosing the high-end ones, regardless of the brand.

I find, not necessarily true for you, that it is harder to control with wider chisels such as 3/4" or 1", and 3/8" is my usual chopping chisel (LV butt and Narex; I use the Veritas and AI's mostly for paring...too nice to wreck with a mallet). Do 3/8" and 1/2" make any difference? They seem to for me as I can remove waste easier with a 3/8" (less wedging and resistance for every pounding). I am sure some may say 3/4" is better because it cuts down the no. of chopping.

Of course, wood also matters. I take more time to work with hard maple than cherry or walnut, whether it is chopping or sawing. (Don't touch the coping saw blade...don't ask how I know  :-[) With softer wood, I would be willing to use a 1/2" or 5/8".

As others have mentioned, I don't like the socket type as the handles can come off due to seasonal changes...they do look nice though. I read somewhere that you can use hairspray to minimize the problem.

Since budget is not an issue, a fishtail chisel is nice, again not essential unless you do the half-blinds. I made my own, by regrinding a Narex. Rarely do i use it, however, in through dovetails.

P.S. When chopping, I do not hold the handle, but the body of the blade and rest my palm on the work. It gives me control and precision. I can also easily see if the chisel is held perpendicular to the work. Just remember, I am in a sitting position when chopping dovetails.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:17 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2018, 03:51 PM »
Thanks to all responders. I think I’ll go to Highland Woodworking and handle both the Blue Spruce and LN chisels.
Birdhunter

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
Re: Chisels
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2018, 05:33 PM »
Thanks to all responders. I think I’ll go to Highland Woodworking and handle both the Blue Spruce and LN chisels.

I think you’re spoiled. I’d like to get my hands on a Blue Spruce chisel or few.

Although, I can’t complain about my five LN bench chisels.  I went with 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 to get a nice general purpose set.
 

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Chisels
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2018, 11:28 PM »
Don't eliminate the option of vintage.
you could really get some great steel with little tune up on fleabay or even flea markets if you search long enough.
especially if you'll eventually decide to get a single one in a particular size like 1/2" that have bin mentioned above.

I collect Stanley, 750's, 740's and 720's,

but my favorite users are. SWAN socket type, (long and skinny, but surprisingly very strong steel that stays sharp for a while)
for a shorty i'd check E.A.Berg (Swiss made) wonderful steel as well. usually short tang types around, but you may find an odd socket one in a while.
and my other favorite would be STANLEY Everlasting #40 wood handle. those are thru tang one piece beaters that are sollid as a rock. short like 750's and lie Nielsens, but a bit heavier in the handle. some people like that. also that steel is indestructible, i'd argue that it holds up on par or even better then vintage 750's


the Everlasting's were basically the #60's of the 1920's era. with same solid construction but beter look/feel/steel
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 11:31 PM by ALI Construction »

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2018, 11:51 PM »
Remember that LN makes two different handles for their chisels. The classic handle for chopping and the less common long handle for paring. See if Highland has one of those on hand and use that as well. If you decide on LN buy one extra long handle (handle only) so that you can use it for paring when needed.

Online derekcohen

  • Posts: 229
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Chisels
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2018, 12:41 PM »
My go-to chisels for dovetailing are Veritas PM-V11. They have narrow lands, which are needed for the tails. The steel is excellent, as is the balance and mass for chopping or paring. For clearing the corners of half-blind sockets, get a Blue Spruce fish tail chisel.

This is a drawer front (in process) in my current build (24-drawer apothecary chest with curved fronts). To get the curves, the dovetailing is done with some wild angles ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2018, 10:00 PM »
Again, thanks to all the responders. Lots of good info. The chest dovetail work is amazing as I’m still struggling to get my basic techniques down.

I did get my first dovetail to tap into place. It’s not very good, but a lot better than earlier attempts.

I’m using a Bad Axe saw and magnetic saw guides.

I decided to go with the LN chisels. I bought 5 bench, 2 mortise, and 2 fishtail chisels.

I’ve tried working with a 25 degree primary bevel and a secondary 35 degree bevel. I then tried the chisels without a secondary bevel and I think i get a smoother cut. The chisels leave a shiny surface so I think they are sharp.

What’s the consensus on secondary bevels?
Birdhunter

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2018, 10:28 PM »
Were you able to get your hands on a long handle when you tried the LN bench chisels? I would highly reccomend that you buy one. One will cost you $35 plus freight from Lie-Nielsen.  They are really comfortable for paring and really help you line up a nice straight (plumb) approach. I actually have two sets of their bench chisels, one with the short handles and one with the long but all you really need is one or two long handles to break out when you need one. They are shown on LN’s site in the hand tools / chisels / handles section.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 680
Re: Chisels
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2018, 11:05 PM »


What’s the consensus on secondary bevels?

No consensus out there.

I use them on my blades and chisels except the Japanese ones. I find the micro-bevels easier for my free-hand sharpening routine.

Online derekcohen

  • Posts: 229
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Chisels
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2018, 11:57 PM »
Quote
I’ve tried working with a 25 degree primary bevel and a secondary 35 degree bevel. I then tried the chisels without a secondary bevel and I think i get a smoother cut. The chisels leave a shiny surface so I think they are sharp.

What’s the consensus on secondary bevels?

Bench chisels, especially A2 steel such as the LN, are best used with a 30 degree bevel. You can up the secondary bevel angle to 35 degrees for the mortice chisels, which need to withstand more stress.

The lower then bevel angle, the easier they are to penetrate wood fibres, and they sharper they feel. However everything is a compromise, and 25 degrees for bench chisels will not hold an edge long, especially A2 steel.

The fishtails could remain at 25 degrees, if they come this way, simply because they are used very little and specifically on end grain.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2018, 06:25 AM »
I ordered 1 LN long handle. It looks easy to swap handles on the LN chisels.

The technique that I’ve been trying is to mark the saw cut locations and depth of cut in pencil and then make the cut using the magnetic guide and the Bad Ax saw. I then mark the cut line for waste removal with a marking knife. I make a light 90 degree chop on the waste line with a chisel and then remove a flake of waste. I make a deeper cut on both sides removing a little more waste. I then remove most of the waste with a Knew fret saw. The final step is to pare the waste out using chisels.

Does it work to use a mortise chisel to do the final waste removal?

I understand that a secondary bevel will keep the chisel sharp longer at the sacrifice of cutting efficiency.

I have a sharpening station with Course, Fine, X Fine, and XX Fine diamond stones set up that I use with a LN guide. It just takes a few minutes to resharpen a chisel.

I built the angle setting jig that LN recommends and it’s great for a quick accurate angle set for the guide.

I am finding doing the dovetails is both fascinating and far more difficult than I ever thought.

In general, I am increasingly preferring hand tools over power tools. In the past, I bought some extremely nice planes and almost never used them. Hand tools seem to  give a quiet satisfaction that I wasn’t getting from power tools.
Birdhunter

Online derekcohen

  • Posts: 229
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Chisels
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2018, 11:56 AM »
Quote
Does it work to use a mortise chisel to do the final waste removal?

No, you cannot do this. It is too coarse a method.

You can partially drill out waste ...



... and then split it away ...



Another method - more advanced (= greater risk for error, but faster) - is to route it out. Here is a video example ...



A couple of articles ...

Half blind dovetails:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

Through dovetails:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ThroughDovetails3.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 12:03 PM by derekcohen »

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2018, 02:17 PM »
You are going to like the long handle for paring and yes, they are very easy to remove and reinstall. Just grab the chisel by the socket and then tap the end of the handle against your bench top, at an angle (about 45 degrees to the bench top) exerting side pressure on the handle. A couple of light taps should do it. Then reinstall by firmly grabbing the chisel portion around the socket and hitting the handle straight down (90 degrees to the bench top) against the end of the handle very firmly. Again two to three firm taps should do it.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 471
Re: Chisels
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2018, 09:18 AM »
… but my favorite users are. SWAN socket type, (long and skinny, but surprisingly very strong steel that stays sharp for a while)
for a shorty i'd check E.A.Berg (Swiss made) wonderful steel as well. usually short tang types around, but you may find an odd socket one in a while.

E.A. Berg is (was) a Swedish company & their chisels are of exceptionally high quality. AFAIK they made chisels for some other European brands, like Nooitgedagt in the Netherlands — so you may want to include those in your search parameters.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2018, 01:59 PM »
I did order a selection of LN chisels and 1 long handle. I later visited Highland Woodworking and handled a couple of Blue Spruce chisels.

My impression is that the LN chisels are excellent general purpose tools. The Blue Spruce chisels feel much smaller and, perhaps, better for finesse work.

I subsequently ordered a few Blue Spruce chisels.

It will be fun trying them back to back although I don’t know if I want to hammer on the Blue Spruce chisels. They are too pretty.
Birdhunter

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 223
Re: Chisels
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2018, 04:44 PM »
The Blue Spruce mallet is superb.

John

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2018, 04:54 PM »
I ordered the Blue Spruce round mallet. Is that the one you recommend?
Birdhunter

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2018, 06:26 PM »
You guys are costing me money! I was not aware of Blue Spruce Tools until today. I have an e-mail question out to them. I have a feeling the answer is going to cost me😊.

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 342
Re: Chisels
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2018, 06:47 PM »
I bought a Ramelson mallet for $35 or so at a local Woodcraft store. It works for me. And the rock maple is still slightly softer than hornbeam.

https://www.ramelson.com/product-page/14oz-rock-maple-wood-carvers-mallet

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2018, 05:23 AM »
I am spending a lot of money on nice hand tools. I’m also watching a lot of videos on using hand tools. There must be thousands of YouTube videos on the best way to do dovetails!

There is a possibility that my wife and I will move out of our rather too big home into a retirement community. There, I probably won’t have room for my too large collection of big power tools.

So, I’m learning to do woodworking with hand tools. Except for hammering out dovetails, this mode of woodworking is much quieter. It’s certainly full of challenges.

The next challenge will be how to divest my dearly beloved power tools.
Birdhunter

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 803
Re: Chisels
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2018, 12:00 PM »
I am very pleased with all of my Blue Spruce Toolworks and LN purchases. I highly recommend them both. BSTW is a great company and the owner, Dave, is a great communicator if you have any questions. I have some Japanese chisels that are good as well. I’m considering buying these two sets next:

http://northmen.com/en/products/woodworking-tools/bench-chisels

http://northmen.com/en/products/woodworking-tools/timber-framing-tools/set-of-5-2

I have added to the collection since, but here is a nice picture.
Daniel

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2018, 12:41 PM »
I’ve looked at the Japanese chisels. I noticed the backs are concave except for maybe 1/2” behind the cutting edge.

After the chisels have been sharpened many times, the concave surface would affect the cutting edge.

What’s the secret?
Birdhunter

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2018, 01:04 PM »
In my experience a Japanese chisel would only be touched up on the back and at the tip of the bevel or microbevel. If you are doing a full regrind of the bevel often then Japanese chisels may not be for you.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2018, 01:19 PM »
@Runhard - Do you have a way to contact Dave at Blue Spruce. I have sent a note through their website but I have not heard anything back.

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 803
Re: Chisels
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2018, 01:31 PM »
@Runhard - Do you have a way to contact Dave at Blue Spruce. I have sent a note through their website but I have not heard anything back.

@Alanbach pm sent with email address and phone number.
Daniel

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 223
Re: Chisels
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2018, 02:40 PM »
I ordered the Blue Spruce round mallet. Is that the one you recommend?

Yes. Been very happy with mine.

John

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 614
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Chisels
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2018, 07:26 PM »
I did order a selection of LN chisels and 1 long handle. I later visited Highland Woodworking and handled a couple of Blue Spruce chisels.

My impression is that the LN chisels are excellent general purpose tools. The Blue Spruce chisels feel much smaller and, perhaps, better for finesse work.

I subsequently ordered a few Blue Spruce chisels.

It will be fun trying them back to back although I don’t know if I want to hammer on the Blue Spruce chisels. They are too pretty.

I have purchased the Blue Spruce Bench Chisels primarily because of the wonderful handles.  Dave is certainly an artist with wood.  Mine are all fitted with the African Blackwood, which is very hard.  The steel is A2, which is identical to the LN steel, and I could see an advantage to being able to switch to a longer handle, but I can't get enough of the African Blackwood, which is also available on other Blue Spruce tools,  Including the handle that came with the round mallet I purchased.

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Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Chisels
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2018, 02:24 AM »
… but my favorite users are. SWAN socket type, (long and skinny, but surprisingly very strong steel that stays sharp for a while)
for a shorty i'd check E.A.Berg (Swiss made) wonderful steel as well. usually short tang types around, but you may find an odd socket one in a while.

E.A. Berg is (was) a Swedish company & their chisels are of exceptionally high quality. AFAIK they made chisels for some other European brands, like Nooitgedagt in the Netherlands — so you may want to include those in your search parameters.

I did mean sweedish, not swiss, just a typo. my bad.
indeed sweedish steel was popular for its quality, while the town of Eskilstuna seemed to have the best blacksmiths.
only thing is that E.A.Berg didnt make much socket types (they exist, just very rare) and they're mostly on the shorter side of bench chisels, while lately i've bin picking up a few longer socket paring chisels made by Jernbolaget (also Eskilstuna sweeden) arguably same superb steel as Bergs, just more of a style that I like.

and a little cheaper too, as many collectors try to pick up longer Bergs for absurd prices

but seriously, to the OP, consider grabbing a E.A.Berg, just one perhaps to keep it as a beater on your bench, and compare it to your Lie Nielsen's. should cost you no more then 20-25 bucks for 1

Offline ALI Construction

  • Posts: 16
Re: Chisels
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2018, 02:41 AM »
I’ve looked at the Japanese chisels. I noticed the backs are concave except for maybe 1/2” behind the cutting edge.

After the chisels have been sharpened many times, the concave surface would affect the cutting edge.

What’s the secret?

that's no big deal, Japanese makers slightly hollowed their chisels backs just so it would be easier to flatten, if you sharpen it back far enough towards the hollow, you would just need to flatten it down a bit more, and all is good again.

Imagine a typical Japanese woodworker and their chisels:
they would get up in the morning, grab all their tools (chisels/planes) and touch them up on their water stones before the work day every day, both, back and bevels. just a quick touch up and its good for the day, all sharpening was done by hand, no power grinders. Blacksmiths hollowed backs as a feature just to save some time for sharpenings later, and touching their tools up daily also kept them from going completely dull.
they're also the ones that designed a simple block with a slot cut out, a wire pin stuck thru it across, and a blade with a chip breaker. you adjust the depth and blade position by lightly tapping on the wood body in/out and sides for alignment. then they called it a PULL TYPE PLANE.
simple yet effective, they still produce the finest shavings today.
there's even competitions for the thinnest shavings in japan today

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2018, 05:53 AM »
Thanks for the explanation on the Japanese chisels. I think I have bought all the chisels I can justify to my wife.

The LN chisels arrive UPS Wednesday and I’ll give them a go and post a report. I have no idea when the Blue Spruce chisels will arrive.

I’ve been “learning” dovetails for the past week or so on scrap. Yesterday, I got the first joint with 2 dovetails to lock into place with the board sides perfectly aligned. I had a tiny gap on one side of a dovetail that I caused when I was adjusting the fit with a rasp.

I’ve been doing woodworking for many years and built some really nice stuff, but this simple dovetail joint was surprisingly pleasing to me.

All this makes me even more appreciate the artistry and skill of the craftsmen who cut multiple flawless dovetailed creations.
Birdhunter

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 570
Re: Chisels
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2018, 02:51 AM »
I had no idea that @derekcohen was a registered user on this forum. 
For those not in the know, this man has an epic woodworking hand tool internet presence.  Big fan of the In The Woodshop website, right here. :)


Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2018, 10:54 PM »
My box of LN chisels arrived today. I only had time to unwrap one before I had to drive to the airport. That one is beautiful! The quality is like that of their planes.... first rate. I can’t wait to use them.

The Blue Spruce chisels are supposed to arrive Wednesday.
Birdhunter

Online derekcohen

  • Posts: 229
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Chisels
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2018, 02:10 AM »
I had no idea that @derekcohen was a registered user on this forum. 
For those not in the know, this man has an epic woodworking hand tool internet presence.  Big fan of the In The Woodshop website, right here. :)

Thanks YH. You are very kind.

If you are not aware, I have a build in progress on this forum: http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/apothecary-chest/

Some power, mostly hand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 570
Re: Chisels
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2018, 08:45 PM »
I had no idea that @derekcohen was a registered user on this forum. 
For those not in the know, this man has an epic woodworking hand tool internet presence.  Big fan of the In The Woodshop website, right here. :)

Thanks YH. You are very kind.

If you are not aware, I have a build in progress on this forum: http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/apothecary-chest/

Some power, mostly hand.

Regards from Perth

Derek


Gorgeous work.  Bookmarked.  :)

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2018, 08:12 PM »
As I predicted six days ago you guys have cost me😊. My new Blue Spruce Toolworks mallets arrived today and I am stoked!Thanks again to Runhard for the referral and to others here that helped to introduce me to BLue Spruce.

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 803
Re: Chisels
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2018, 10:30 PM »
As I predicted six days ago you guys have cost me😊. My new Blue Spruce Toolworks mallets arrived today and I am stoked!Thanks again to Runhard for the referral and to others here that helped to introduce me to BLue Spruce.

Those look really nice. I’m glad that I was able to be of assistance!
Daniel

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2018, 11:56 AM »
Those are beautiful. What are the advantages of the round mallet vs the block mallet?
Birdhunter

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2018, 12:25 PM »
Generally I would say finesse vs. brute force. Also I often use a round mallet with chisels that do not have flat ends (with a ring). A round mallet will direct force where your other hand leads the chisel regardless of the precision with which you strike onto the chisel. The larger rectangular mallet will probably be used less and mostly for bigger chopping jobs like larger, deeper mortises, etc.. The larger rectangular mallet also has one mar resistant face to tap things into place with. Lastly, I tend to be somewhat obsessed with things that feel like complete sets to me so there you go😊.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2018, 12:37 PM »
I forgot to add that traditionally the round mallet would be considered a carver’s mallet and the larger rectangular mallet with its angled faces would be more of a joiner’s mallet for big chopping and assembly of larger joinery.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Chisels
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2018, 02:19 PM »
Thanks for the mallet info. Glad I ordered the round one.

I’ve been using a small hammer with a plastic disk on one side and a brass disk on the other side.

The fancy wood Blue Spruce mallet certainly will “Spruce Up” my workshop.
Birdhunter

Online derekcohen

  • Posts: 229
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Chisels
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2018, 02:22 PM »
It is really personal preference. I find a cabinetmaker's mallet (rectangular) is more direct and may be smaller and lighter for the same force compared to a round, carver-type mallet. I have the Blue Spruce carver's mallet, and it is very nice. I prefer a modified Veritas cabinetmaker's mallet (re-handled and UHMW faces) ...



This is used on non-hooped chisels. For hooped chisels, such as Japanese, I use a gennou ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline ryan_k

  • Posts: 22
Re: Chisels
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2018, 04:04 PM »
As I predicted six days ago you guys have cost me😊. My new Blue Spruce Toolworks mallets arrived today and I am stoked!Thanks again to Runhard for the referral and to others here that helped to introduce me to BLue Spruce.

Those are gorgeous, what sort of wood is the handle of the square mallet?

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 178
Re: Chisels
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2018, 09:53 PM »
Both handles are Cocobolo. Both heads are figured hard maple.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.