Author Topic: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.  (Read 1624 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 253
Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« on: August 27, 2017, 03:10 PM »
I've always wanted to try a Japanese chisel but I honestly never saw the need to buy one. Last week I ordered some things from fine-tools in Germany and they sell several brands of Japanese chisels so I thought why not order one. The one I ordered is a 24mm White Paper steel chisel made by a fella called Matsumura. It has a red Oak handle and is hardened to 64RC. I don't know anyone who has a Japanese chisel so I didn't know what to expect but I wasn't expecting this. It's lighter, better balanced and more refined than I thought it would be. I've used it this afternoon while working on a present for my mother and the edge holds far longer in Cherry than my Stanley Sweetheart chisels. However, despite the hardness of the hagane layer it didn't chip at all. The edge also seems to get sharper compared to my Stanley Sweethearts. I seriously like this chisel.


Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1117
Re: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2017, 08:40 PM »
I recently had a similar experience.  Bought a couple of Japanese kitchen knives and was surprised at how much lighter and sharper they are than my old Henkels knives.  Its like using a scalpel.  Time will tell how long the edge lasts.

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 867
Re: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 05:56 AM »
I'm seriously pleased with my two koyamaichi bench chisel 18mm  and 36mm 36mm paring chisel. Just bought a matsumura mortising chisel,  I'll be slowly filling out the collection.. I like to fill out the collection with a 9mm and 12mm 24mm I'll stick to the koyamaichi bench chisels with boxwood handles..

The Japanese saws are also nice to use, no need for fancy dust collection with these hand tools.
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 530
Re: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 09:45 AM »
I've always wanted to try a Japanese chisel but I honestly never saw the need to buy one. Last week I ordered some things from fine-tools in Germany and they sell several brands of Japanese chisels so I thought why not order one. The one I ordered is a 24mm White Paper steel chisel made by a fella called Matsumura. It has a red Oak handle and is hardened to 64RC. I don't know anyone who has a Japanese chisel so I didn't know what to expect but I wasn't expecting this. It's lighter, better balanced and more refined than I thought it would be. I've used it this afternoon while working on a present for my mother and the edge holds far longer in Cherry than my Stanley Sweetheart chisels. However, despite the hardness of the hagane layer it didn't chip at all. The edge also seems to get sharper compared to my Stanley Sweethearts. I seriously like this chisel.

Glad you like them.  Japanese chisels do an awesome job of cutting, and they are not hard to set up from the maker - a little honing of the back and edge, set the hoop, and you're ready to go.  They are quite a bit fussier once you've sharpened them back past the point where the hollow in the back starts.  That's when you have to start doing things like hammering out the edge and re-flattening the back.  That part intimidates me.  But if you take care of the edge, you won't get to that point for quite a while because the edge wears so well.

Another thing that I like about Japanese chisels is that they are not slaves to fashion.  Makers focus on the quality and utility of the steel, while the handles are very utilitarian.  The hooped chisels are made for a hammer, while the paring chisels are made for hand use.

That said, I gave my Japanese chisels to my son, who prefers them and gives them far better use than I would, and I use Lee Valley PMV-11.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 3299
Re: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 10:30 AM »
I recently had a similar experience.  Bought a couple of Japanese kitchen knives and was surprised at how much lighter and sharper they are than my old Henkels knives.  Its like using a scalpel.  Time will tell how long the edge lasts.

I experienced the same thing after purchasing a Shun Premier paring knife. Huge difference, the blade is thinner and it's sharpened at a more acute angle. It also stays sharper longer and responds to steeling better than the Wusthof's that I have.

I've replaced the Wusthof's that I can, with the Shuns, (very limited selection compared to Trident).

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 253
Re: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 11:35 AM »
They are quite a bit fussier once you've sharpened them back past the point where the hollow in the back starts.  That's when you have to start doing things like hammering out the edge and re-flattening the back.  That part intimidates me.  But if you take care of the edge, you won't get to that point for quite a while because the edge wears so well.

It seems to me that if you work the back every time you sharpen them there should be no problem with not getting into the hollow.

I also tested it out at work today so see how it fairs in Teak and Oak and I'm truly impressed. Compared to my Sweethearts I'd say the edge lasts at least 5 times longer. Less time sharpening means more time working and that means I make more money so I ordered the set containing the 6, 9, 12, 18, 24 and 30mm chisels.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 12:09 PM by Lemwise »

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 142
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2017, 10:06 AM »
I have compared chisels with White Steel (Koyamaichi), PM-V11, A2 (Blue Spruce), and O1 (vintage Stanley 750). That was the order in which they finished, but the first two left the last two for dust.

The article is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/FourChiselSteelsCompared.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 530
Re: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2017, 01:29 PM »
I have compared chisels with White Steel (Koyamaichi), PM-V11, A2 (Blue Spruce), and O1 (vintage Stanley 750). That was the order in which they finished, but the first two left the last two for dust.
...
@derekcohen, Lie Nielsen chisels are A2, but are cryogenically hardened.  The Blue Spruce are heat treated and hardened.  Any sense of how big a difference there is between the two processes?

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 253
Re: Japanese chisel. Not what I expected.
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2017, 02:41 PM »
I have compared chisels with White Steel (Koyamaichi), PM-V11, A2 (Blue Spruce), and O1 (vintage Stanley 750). That was the order in which they finished, but the first two left the last two for dust.

I always thought a high alloy steel would be better than a simple, pure steel. I guess I thought the alloying elements would make the steel tougher and more resistant. I couldn't have been more wrong. I love this White Steel. It's so easy to sharpen (especially on my Atoma plates) and it stays sharp for such a long time.