Author Topic: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.  (Read 7073 times)

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Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« on: January 21, 2017, 05:17 PM »
A few weeks ago I bought the Quangsheng low angle block plane from Workshop Heaven and it's a seriously good plane. Last week I was at another shipyard to help out with a teak deck and one of the guys there has the Lie Nielsen block plane. We compared the two and came to the conclusion the Quangsheng is the better plane. Both are identical in size but the Quangsheng is a tad bit heavier. If I had to guess I'd say about 100 grams. This is because the Quangsheng has a body made from CR40 steel (Chrome Molybdenum tool steel) vs ductile iron for the Lie Nielsen. The advantage of CR40 over ductile iron is that CR40 is more corrosion resistant and stronger. It's a better all round choice for a plane imo. The Quangsheng also has a better adjuster. The adjuster wheel on the Lie Nielsen is quite small and close to the blade. Because it's so close to the blade it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for your fingers. The adjuster wheel on the Quangsheng is larger which provides more grip. The Quangsheng also uses a different adjuster. The blade has 10 slots and 2 of the slots engage two tabs on the adjuster. Because the blade has 10 slots you can have the adjuster wheel stick out more at the rear which makes setting the depth a lot easier. It also has a finer thread enabling a finer and more controlled depth setting. Finally, the 10 slots give you more useable blade length. I also like the T10 carbon steel blade on the Quangsheng more. A2 has a tendency to chip while carbon steel dulls gradually. Carbon steel also sharpens much faster and takes a keener edge. The only thing the Lie Nielsen has over the Quangsheng is the casting is a bit cleaner and the powder coat finish is of a better quality. However, these two things don't affect the performance in any way. So in the end it's down to the price. The Lie Nielsen costs about $180 and the Quangsheng is $88. Given this very large price difference I'm baffled why anyone would choose the Lie Nielsen over the Quangsheng.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 07:54 PM by Lemwise »

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 05:22 PM »
Sounds like the trains pacific tool trumps the LN one in value.

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2017, 06:11 PM »
The Quangsheng is without a doubt better value for money. And even if the Lie Nielsen sold for the same amount I would still pick the Quangsheng. CR40 steel casting, better adjuster, better blade (this is subjective though).... there's no contest here. Unless you're American and very patriotic and only want to buy US made stuff.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2017, 08:53 PM »
I have both the LN 60 1/2 and the Veritas NX60 ...



The LN is a nice plane to use, and comfortable in the hand. It was only when reviewing the Veritas, several years ago, that I became aware that the large adjuster wheel is more difficult to access on the LN. That becomes an issue if you adjust the blade frequently, or when you want to remove/replace the blade for sharpening. Not a deal breaker for many, but a factor to consider. It is this issue that has been addressed on the Quangsheng?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2017, 04:00 AM »
As you can see in the picture the clamping wheel on the Quangsheng is in the same spot. It doesn't really bother me. I will say however the clamping wheel on the Veritas LABP is far easier to access. You also see the adjuster sticks out more at the rear and the knob is bigger. This really makes a difference when setting the depth.

Offline carlb40

  • Posts: 369
  • Site carpenter
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 06:30 AM »
I had the LN for a while but needed to sell it during the tail end of our recession.  I now have the Quangsheng also from workshop heaven.
The LN is to me more comfortable to hold, but i hate the A2 steel. While it holds a good edge, it takes too long to resharpen when blunt. If i remember it took about 1 hour to resharpen. 
The quansheng while still ok to hold / use, i still prefer the LN to hold. However the blade in the QS is a lot easier to sharpen and still holds it's edge quite well.

 
Carl

Never never go, never never know [smile]

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Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2017, 07:01 AM »
What made the Lie Nielsen more comfortable to hold for you? Apart from the extra weight of the Quangsheng I found there's no difference in how they handle.

Btw, if it takes you a hour to resharpen an A2 blade you're doing something wrong. It takes me 2-3 minutes starting with the King Deluxe 1200 followed by the Sigma Select II 6000. What did you use to sharpen A2?

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 317
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 09:33 AM »
Never even picked up a Quangsheng but I have a Veritas Low angle block plane and have had a go with a lie Nielson low angle block plane.

I have pretty big hands and found the Lie Nielson too narrow. Didn't really get on with it.

Undeniable quality product that I just wasn't blown away by.

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2017, 10:56 AM »
The Veritas LABP is also my block plane of choice. I also have large hands and like the extra width. I bought the Quangsheng for when the Veritas is too wide. For example when I have to mate something concave to something convex.

Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 168
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 05:43 PM »
No Chinese tools for me.  We have enough Chinese goods on our shelves.  LN and Veritas all the way.
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Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2017, 11:19 AM »
No Chinese tools for me.  We have enough Chinese goods on our shelves.  LN and Veritas all the way.
Even at more than twice the price when the quality is the same?

Online eddomak

  • Posts: 271
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2017, 06:53 PM »
I have the Luban low angle block plane v2, which I believe is the same plane. I haven't had a chance to compare it to anything, but as my first hand plane I am really happy with it and have found a lot of use for it to complement my power tool usage.

No Chinese tools for me.  We have enough Chinese goods on our shelves.  LN and Veritas all the way.
Even at more than twice the price when the quality is the same?

I guess there are many factors in the purchasing decision and the weighting of those factors may differ in different circumstances. functionality may be one, quality one, value another. Personally I think there is a valid case for supporting and encouraging local industry as well.

in this particular example, in Australia, there are only a few quality hand tool makers and I don't know of any that make any equivalent of this same tool. HNT Gordon planes look amazing and I would love one except that I could still never justify the price (for my level of usage) and prefer the iron plane style for adjustments etc. As a result the choice became a bit easier to make.

I can think of a local guy (in the camp kitchen industry) who are doing great products in a relatively small country town of NSW and now exporting all over the world and generating good jobs and income for the local town, bucking the trend of lost jobs and migration to cities. To me that is well worth supporting, but there would come a price point at which I would still need to be practical if there was an equivalent product. If money were no object, then a lot of decisions might be easier.


Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2017, 01:59 PM »
Personally I think there is a valid case for supporting and encouraging local industry as well.
For me it's different because there are no Dutch hand tool makers (we used to have Nooitgedagt but they went out of business). The only thing I care about is the quality and price. If I can get a seriously good block plane for €80 (the Quangsheng) I'm going to buy it regardless of where it's made. I'm not going to spend more on a Lie Nielsen just because it's made in America. That doesn't mean a thing to me.

Offline Huxleywood

  • Posts: 123
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2017, 08:44 PM »
I have the Veritas DX 60, LN AMBP, a BCTW HP-9 and a Woodriver BP LABP which I understand to be the Quangsheng.  The Veritas has a PM11 blade and the BCTW has an A2 blade.  I much prefer the PM11 to any other iron or chisel steel but prefer A2 to O1, as long as you don't get it very dull and use a micro-bevel it is easy to sharpen.

Of all the planes I prefer the HP-9 which is an engineering marvel, but priced accordingly.  Second, would be the DX60 which is a pleasure to hold and use.  Third would be the LN and last is the Woodriver.  The WR plane took a decent amount of time to get tuned up out of the box and just didn't have the fit and finish of the higher priced planes.  At least mine did not have the same level of quality in the adjustments and never inspires the level of confidence the others do.  The WR probably has the best value of any of the new planes but if I had it to do all over again I would not have bought it but the resell value is not worth selling it on, it stays in my toolbox I haul into the house for DIY jobs. 

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2017, 03:34 AM »
Second, would be the DX60 which is a pleasure to hold and use.
Every review I read about the DX60 says it fits in the hand in a different way from other block planes. What exactly makes it different to hold and how does it affect it's use?

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 580
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2017, 10:27 AM »
The last Fine Woodworking/Homebuilding tools review had reviews of jack planes and their review agreed with @Huxleywood's on the quality of the Wood River plane - just took too much fiddling to get it tuned up correctly, and the fit and finish wasn't as good.

I've used several planes that were not LN or LV, and they were not quite right out of the box.  In most case the sole was not flat enough to do quality work, and in some cases the blade as well.  My experience was that I could tune those two defects up, but it took a couple of hours of time (using float glass/granite and sandpaper), and the results were not as good as getting a plane that is properly tuned up out of the box.  In some cases, the mouth suffered from the tuning, making it hard to adjust properly.  If the sides are not square to the sole, that is really tough to fix - the one time I tried, I failed - but that is not as important unless you are using the plane to shoot.

For my money, LN and LV are worth it because they are properly tuned out of the box.  I have 17 LN and LV planes and I've never had to do more out of the box than smooth the backs of the blades behind the edge and hone them.   If the soles and blades are not dead flat out of the box, or if the sides are not square to the soles, you send them back.  Furthermore, the adjustments on both brands work well - the worst problem I've had with either is a little slop in the depth adjustments, and even that was an exception, and minimal.  I started out buying LN because I got a really great deal from a co-worker who was giving up on woodworking.  Now I tend toward LV because of the PMV-11 blades, which live up to the hype, especially at a slightly steeper honing angle - say 30 degrees rather than 25.  For both LN and LV, the bodies are made using material and manufacturing techniques that should keep them stable, so that everything stays flat and square over time.  I've not had any problems with my LN or LV planes, some of which have >20 years on them.

BTW, of the LN planes that I got second hand, the only ones that I haven't used on a project are the side rabbet planes, and a beading tool.  Of the LV planes, the only ones I haven't used are two skew rabbeting block planes and a plough plane, because they are new and I just got them ready to go yesterday.  The two block planes were easy - hone the blades and adjust the depth and lateral positioning.  Honestly, the plough plane seems really finicky, and I think I'm going to need to add an auxiliary fence to get the fence bearing surface that I need to make good cuts.  Or refine my technique - this is the first time I've used one.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 10:20 AM by HarveyWildes »

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 377
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2017, 12:59 PM »
Second, would be the DX60 which is a pleasure to hold and use.
Every review I read about the DX60 says it fits in the hand in a different way from other block planes. What exactly makes it different to hold and how does it affect it's use?

The lower profile and the rounded shape allows for several ways to hold and use the plane that are more comfortable. Eg fitting your whole hand over it (with fingers on both sides) makes it easier to do a consistent chamfer, or gripping it with all fingers on one side to swipe it over a glue edge in a wide motion. In other words: it is more ergonomic!
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline Huxleywood

  • Posts: 123
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2017, 01:54 PM »
Second, would be the DX60 which is a pleasure to hold and use.
Every review I read about the DX60 says it fits in the hand in a different way from other block planes. What exactly makes it different to hold and how does it affect it's use?

The lower profile and the rounded shape allows for several ways to hold and use the plane that are more comfortable. Eg fitting your whole hand over it (with fingers on both sides) makes it easier to do a consistent chamfer, or gripping it with all fingers on one side to swipe it over a glue edge in a wide motion. In other words: it is more ergonomic!

That echoes my hands feeling as well.  It is like Veritas made a shape to fit the hand first then turned that shape into a plane. 

As for ductile iron, it is a traditional plane material and continues to be the most popular choice because it has lots of properties you want in a plane body.  You generally don't want a very hard material  for the plane body and when you see other materials used it is usually not much harder.   The funny thing here is the Woodriver has a hard body and (relatively) poor machining so the hard body makes it more difficult to prepare for use where the LN and LV are ready to go out of the box (save honing) but would be easier to prepare.  The BCTW HP-9 uses a stainless sole and aluminum body but it is a different animal with higher tolerances than either the LN or LV.

Don't get me wrong there is nothing horrible about the Woodriver planes I own, I have 4 (the block, a couple of shoulder planes and the chisel plane) they simply take more work to get ready to use and the mechanisms have a little more slop/backlash.  Value is not universal, it is fully contained within each person, though multiple people may share similar criteria and thus agree on the value of an item for the most part. 

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2017, 04:04 PM »
I don't like the answer about the DX60 ergonomics because now I'm really interested in trying it. The problem is I already have the Veritas LABP and the Quangsheng LABP and I don't need another one.

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 868
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2017, 07:10 PM »
This caught my eye, and although I had an idea to get the ECE wood block plane, I've had som doubts about it. The Veritas DX 60 seems to have something extra speciel about so it's gravitating towards my shopping cart.
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Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2017, 03:04 AM »
I don't like the answer about the DX60 ergonomics because now I'm really interested in trying it. The problem is I already have the Veritas LABP and the Quangsheng LABP and I don't need another one.

I have broad hands (100mm across the palm), but I find the Lee Valley LABP too wide for comfortable holding. The Stanley #65 is the same.

By contrast, the Stanley/LN #60 1/2 and the Veritas NX60/DX60 are the same widths, and these are a good fit for me.



I use the LN #60 1/2 and both the Veritas NX and DX60 (I work with Lee Valley to test run their planes prior to final production, and so have a bunch of their planes in my shop).

In use, all these planes perform exactly the same as one another, that is, to the highest standard. All are very comfortable in the hand. I would not want to separate them in that regard.

However, when it comes to ergonomics - adjusting the blade laterally and for projection, removing and re-inserting the blade when sharpening, and opening and closing the mouth - then the Veritas planes are in a class of their own. They just make these tasks easier.

Lastly, one gets a few choices of blade steel with the Veritas, and their PM-V11 steel is simply better in every way to A2, which is the only steel offered by LN. It hones like O1 and has several times its edge holding.

I wrote up a comparison of these planes in 2008:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasPremiumBlockPlane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 03:09 AM by derekcohen »

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2017, 04:02 AM »
This caught my eye, and although I had an idea to get the ECE wood block plane, I've had som doubts about it.
One of my co-workers has the ECE block plane specifically for the most difficult of woods and it's actually a very nice little plane. He made a small metal adjustable mouth plate for it and he put a 10 degree back bevel on the blade. Combined with the 50 degree seating of the blade that gives him a total angle of 60 degrees. The only downside is that the big depth adjuster knob has a tendency to come loose because the palm of your hand rests on it.

I have broad hands (100mm across the palm), but I find the Lee Valley LABP too wide for comfortable holding.
My hands are slightly smaller with 95mm across the palm but the Veritas LABP is the most comfortable to hold for me compared to the Quangsheng which is the same size as the LN 60½. The Veritas fits my hand better than any other block plane I've ever held (apart from the LN 102).

And you're absolutely right about PM-V11. It's the best blade steel on the market, even better than Blue or White Paper steel imo. It sharpens easily and holds the edge for a long time. I also replaced the A2 blade in my Veritas No.4 with a PM-V11 blade.

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2017, 07:39 AM »
I visited a wood working show and I got to hold the Veritas DX60. I have to say this is without a doubt the most comfortable and ergonomic block plane I've ever held in my hands. I'm strongly considering selling the Quangsheng and replacing it with the DX60.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 05:05 PM by Lemwise »

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 08:41 AM »
Thanks @Lemwise good to know.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 11:49 PM »
I visited a wood working show and I got to hold the Veritas DX60. I have to say this is without a doubt the most comfortable and ergonomic block plane I've ever held in my hands. I'm strongly considering selling the Quangsheng and replacing it with the DX60.

See - I told you so! Listen to me :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2017, 01:58 AM »
I visited a wood working show and I got to hold the Veritas DX60. I have to say this is without a doubt the most comfortable and ergonomic block plane I've ever held in my hands. I'm strongly considering selling the Quangsheng and replacing it with the DX60.

See - I told you so! Listen to me :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Please keep talking Derek, I am all ears.

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2017, 02:42 AM »
See - I told you so! Listen to me :)

Regards from Perth

Derek
I was surprised by how comfortable it is to hold because I've gotten so used to the width of the Veritas LABP over the years. It's just as wide (or narrow) as the Quansheng yet it feels completely different.

And speaking of premium planes, I don't get why Lee Valley still has the NX60 on its website. It's pretty clear by now it will never again be produced so why are they misleading potential customers into thinking something else? I think that's rather deceitful behaviour from an otherwise excellent company.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 06:29 AM by Lemwise »

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 736
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2017, 07:58 AM »
I have a lot of things that I would call Lee Valley but deceitful doesn't even enter my mind. Great service and great reputation are the first thing that comes to mind.

"Due to a manufacturing delay on the body of the NX60 Block Plane, these products are temporarily unavailable."

They don't do in house casting, its outsourced. They are very fussy about who does their casting and have been having trouble finding good foundries in NA since the major exodus of manufactures offshore. This info came from Rob Lee who is the owner of LV. He was doing a talk for a local furniture making guild that was extremely informative including several prototype for future release.

If they were going to discontinue the NX it would say so in a message. If you have to have one right away get the DX, if not wait until the NX is back in production.

I got my son a NX60 when they were first released, it is a sweet little plane.

John

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 260
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2017, 09:58 AM »
The NX60 hasn't been in production for several years now. Also, George Hammond from Veritas told a furniture maker I know that he doubts it will ever be produced again (nickel resist ductile iron is also very difficult and very expensive to machine). At some point they have to be honest and just say the NX60 is discontinued. I mean, how much longer can they continue to say it's delayed? 2 years, 5 years? And don't get me wrong, I love Veritas planes but this is pure nonsense.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Quangsheng low angle vs Lie Nielsen low angle block plane.
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2017, 11:25 AM »
John is correct. The plane remains in production as Lee Valley have every intention of manufacturing more, as far as I am aware. I do not know when it was last offered.

The DX version is exactly the same plane. In some ways it is the better model since the ductile iron is more grippy. I was chatting to Rob Lee about this (and other planes) the other day, and he bemoaned the difficulty in manufacturing the nickel planes.

Regards from Perth

Derek