Author Topic: Router Planes  (Read 3216 times)

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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2383
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Router Planes
« on: July 26, 2018, 12:59 PM »
I bought a small Lie Nielsen router plane and now find I need a full sized one.

I’ve looked at the Lie Nielsen model and the Veritas model. Each seems to have advantages.

Any advice?
Birdhunter

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Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 231
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2018, 07:09 PM »
The two makes are both excellent in design and quality. However there is a wide range of blades with the Veritas, and a small number with LN, which also requires an adapter to use the small blades (as they were designed for their small router). This alone more than tips the balance towards Veritas. The Veritas also has a better fence and accessories for inlay.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 682
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 07:32 PM »
I find the Veritas' tilted handles more easy to hold, especially for doing slicing cuts as you rest your arms on the bench, or hogging out bulk of waste. The Veritas blades are also a lot lot cheaper and are used without the additional cost of an adapter. Lastly, if you do need a medium size router plane down the road, you can use the same blades from the large router plane.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 10:50 PM by ChuckM »

Offline James Carriere

  • Posts: 47
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 11:38 PM »
I have a vintage Stanley #71 but if I was to buy another I’d go for the Veritas.  More blade options and the removable blade on the larger sizes (3/4” and 1/2” if memory serves correctly) which fits to a sharpening jig is great.  I’m using the Veritas blades now as they are compatible with my Stanley. 

Offline CirclDigital

  • Posts: 67
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2018, 03:16 AM »
Both are nice.... but I also prefer the Veritas model. I like the handling and there is a nice selection of blades and other accessoiries as well.

The only thing I feel that needs improving is the depth stop, it’s not that accurate. So you need to be aware of that when you change blade height.

For a review that I feel is accurate:

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2383
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2018, 05:28 AM »
The side to side comparison was excellent. Thanks.

I came away thinking of buying the LN unit as it seems to have better height adjustment and locking. The flexibility of the Veritas blade changing is nice, but I can’t see needing all those options.

Sharpening the diamond pointed cutter looks like a real challenge. I might just ship the cutter back to LN and have them sharpen it up.
Birdhunter

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 231
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2018, 06:18 AM »
The fence for the Veritas is an accessory. So buy it. It is a different class to the LN, which is a copy of the Stanley. There is a great deal more rand with the Veritas.

The depth stop works well on the Veritas. I say this as one who uses it all the time. Is the one on the LN better? Possibly, but that is really the only LN feature that betters the Veritas. What you can see in the video is the ease of setting up the Veritas compared with the LN. What was not mentioned is that the spring-loaded blade holder facilitates easier adjustments. The LN is either full-on or full-off.

As I mentioned earlier, I dislike using the V-blade. It is nevertheless easy to hone as it is removable. "Sharpening the diamond pointed cutter looks like a real challenge. I might just ship the cutter back to LN and have them sharpen it up." I trust you are joking. :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline CirclDigital

  • Posts: 67
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2018, 07:18 AM »
The depth stop works well on the Veritas. I say this as one who uses it all the time. Is the one on the LN better? Possibly, but that is really the only LN feature that betters the Veritas.

I agree that the Veritas has lots of features that are better or feel nicer, it’s (by far) the better option.

But still feel that the depth stop should be improved. It’s not even a real stop in my opinion, when you start adjusting the blade to go down at the end the resistance increases but it’s difficult to come at a consistent stop I feel.

Hardly a problem most of the time, but when the depth setting is critical I leave it at full depth for the duration of all my work if possible because I don’t really trust it.

It is however a very versatile tool that gets used often. Now I just have to find the time and project to use that inlay knife for the first time :-).
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 07:22 AM by CirclDigital »

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1329
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2018, 08:02 AM »
Looks like the Lie Nielsen depth stop might fit on the Veritas.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 231
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2018, 10:21 AM »
No, the LN depth stop will not fit the Veritas - it is square and the Veritas is round. But there is no need for this. There is a bunch of misinformation floating here. Let me clear it up.

First of all, I am involved with testing Veritas planes before they enter production, so be aware of my relationship with them. I tested the Large Router plane before it went into production. The one feature I did not like was the original depth stop, which was a split ring. It worked well, but was fiddly, and especially so compared to the LN.

Here is the split ring setting up for a hinge mortice ...



In addition to time with the Veritas, Tom Lie Nielsen sent me his router plane for an article on router planes I wrote for the Australian Wood Review magazine (about 10 years ago now). I was impressed by the depth stop on the LN, and began agitating Lee Valley to change theirs.

LN (with the blade adapter and blades) ...



I made my own version for the Veritas ...



I've made others like this over the years, such as for router planes I have built. These use the Veritas router plane blades ...



In the meantime, Lee Valley came up with their replacement, and it differs by placement on the adjuster thread (mine is a pre-production version, hence the silver colour) ..



Now, contrary to what you may believe brass cannot damage steel, and therefore the brass screw on the depth gauge is unlikely to damage the steel thread on the adjuster.

It also tightens up very firmly. Even though I have spare depth stops I have made, I have not been tempted to use one on the Veritas.

The advantage of placing the depth stop on the adjuster thread is that it is out of the way when the blade is changed in- or out. If you look at the video (earlier), you will see what happened when the reviewer forgot it was there! :)

The Veritas fence is a work of art compared to the Stanley/LN fence. It has a wider range, and is easier to adjust. Note that both the LN and Veritas are reversible for straight and curved edges ...



Hinge morticing ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 11:11 AM by derekcohen »

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 809
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2018, 10:33 AM »
Another advantage of the blade selection that Lee Valley offers is that you can get into narrow groves.  Occasionally when I'm doing a one-off groove or dado and my combination plane won't reach, I'll make the basic cut with a regular saw blade and clean up and tune the depth with the router plane.

So question - Aside from cutting mortises and cleaning up grooves, what are some other uses that you have for a router plane?

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 231
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2018, 10:45 AM »
A recent picture of stopped dado ...



Older pictures of curved groove ...



Stopped rebate ...



Truing tenon cheeks ..



(in addition to grooves and through dados, hinge mortices, inlay ....)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 682
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2018, 11:05 AM »
Each plane has its merits. It boils down to what type of work you plan to use the router plane mostly for.

If your work requires constant changes of depth of cut, the Lie-Nielsen may be the path to go because its stop mechanism is faster.

If edge work, grooves and recess are cut a lot, and you have had concerns about sharpening the spear point blade (which is good for shear cuts), I would go for the Veritas.

In addition, if you own more than one router plane (which allows you to cut with two different depths without resetting any stops), you sure want one with other accessories and flexibility so you can use the router plane for other jobs like inlay work, etc.

Like Derek, two router planes are not enough for me, and I have made my own: I have three shop-made router planes all together for different sizes of cutters. Of course, I wish I had more Veritas router planes!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 11:46 AM by ChuckM »

Offline CirclDigital

  • Posts: 67
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2018, 11:10 AM »
In the meantime, Lee Valley came up with their replacement, and it differs by placement on the adjuster thread (mine is a pre-production version, hence the silver colour)

That looks about the same as the current production model......just in black.

But I think your modification is better. And not to simply disagree, but mine isn’t that good. I just tested it and when I set the stop when the blade is at a depth of 6.22mm (just a random setting and where I really tried to set the stop at it’s highest position) and then move the blade up and down about 10 times the blade stops anywhere between 6.37 and 6.59mm. Not that impressive, and I was being carefull as well.

I think it has to do with the fact, as you state, that the soft brass is contacting the metal thread and that contact is at a very small area and therefore weak. When you turn the knob too heavily, and there’s a pretty fine line between at the stop and through it, you can even keep turning and lowering the blade. The brass simply won’t lock onto the thread with substantial force.

Now that I look at it, there’s brass in between the threads from previous positions and the screw shows some use as well.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 11:21 AM by CirclDigital »

Offline CirclDigital

  • Posts: 67
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2018, 11:31 AM »
And one feature not mentioned (which I’m not sure if the LN also supports) is the ability to turn the blade around in a bullnose config That really was usefull for me last week when I had to work in an area where my router and the standard setup of this plane wouldn’t reach and I wanted a consistent height.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 682
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2018, 11:39 AM »
Snipe
So question - Aside from cutting mortises and cleaning up grooves, what are some other uses that you have for a router plane?

If the inlay kit is bought, the Veritas router plane can do some inlay work. Paul Sellers sometimes uses his router plane as a marking gauge for marking the tenons and dovetails; he owns the Preston as well as Veritas router planes.

Trimming tenons to fit mortises is another use of a router plane, if one doesn't have a shoulder plane or does not know how fine fit a tenon with a shoulder plane.

For me, you can't beat a router plane for a perfectly bottomed dado that is cut by hand.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 11:58 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2643
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2018, 12:47 PM »
...
For me, you can't beat a router plane for a perfectly bottomed dado that is cut by hand.

Also useful after cutting a dado on the table saw to assure it is full depth everywhere along the dado.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2383
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2018, 06:31 PM »
I talked with Lie Nielsen re sharpening the cutters. Their suggestion was to hone the bottom of the cutter first and hone the bevel just enough to remove the burr.

I bought the large LN router plane today and I think it’s a lot easier to control than the small one.

It is possible to reverse the orientation of the cutter.idid it accidentally.
Birdhunter

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 900
Re: Router Planes
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2018, 05:36 PM »
I have just bought the Veritas large router plane. I ordered the combination plane one day previous, I'll be using them on a small job in the coming week, a small stairway in larch on an outdoor feature. I will use the router plane for the stair dados insets, yes I could use an electric router but prefer to keep things super precise focused and quiet. I'll get a fair amount of practice with the new tool as there will be a total of 14 dados 10 cm long. I didn't get the edge guide for it now not needing it for the job at hand, I will get the guide additional blades and the other extras for it next time I make an order.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 05:42 PM by PreferrablyWood »
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