Author Topic: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet  (Read 3724 times)

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3351
Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« on: May 04, 2017, 05:30 PM »
I have to mill some custom moulding for a project -- I've made a version of the profile before working with a tablesaw (before I started working with handplanes), but it was a real bear to sand out the blade and burn marks, so I'm thinking about getting a rabbeting plane to assist.  I would be using the plane at the very least to clean up the blade marks on the wide rabbet (b/w 1 1/2 to 2" wide) that is part of the profile, but depending on if the plane I end up getting has depth stop capabilities, like the Veritas skew rabbet, I might even attempt to make the majority of the profile from scratch (I don't have moulding planes, so I would still have to mill the curved portions of the profile with a router).

I'm looking at the veritas planes, specifically the jack rabbet and the skew rabbet.  So my question is about what people find more useful to have in their plane arsenal.  I was initially gravitating to the jack rabbet, because I'll be doing such wide rabbets and on stock up to 4 ft. in length.  But since I already have a low angle jack plane, I'm wondering how often I would otherwise reach for the rabbet version in the future: http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=69851&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1

So I was thinking maybe it's better to get an even more specialized rabbet plane like the skew rabbet.  I really like the depth stop, which would give me a precision that the jack version might not have -- and also the smaller footprint of the skew would allow work with smaller stock.  But the rabbet size of the skew plane seems limited when compared to the jack, (according to spec the max rabbet with the fence is 1 1/2" -- though I could obviously freehand it further without the fence if necessary): http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=59999&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1

First world problems, I know, but I've been going back and forth on this in my head for a few days without being able to decide.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

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Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 580
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2017, 07:24 PM »
You can get 6" rods for the skew rabbet plane.

I have the jack rabbet plane and I've found it's size useful for things like planing bread board ends and scooping out wide pen holders for whiteboards.  It's a Lee Valley PM-V11 plane, and I was able to tune it take very fine shavings in cherry - much better than I expected from a bevel up plane.

I also have the skew block planes, which I haven't used as much.  They -don't- have depth stops, they -do- have short" rods (one per plane rather than two).

@Edward A Reno III
** I corrected my original statement that the skew block planes have depth stops.  I checked mine and they do not.  Obviously I haven't had them out for a while...
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 09:05 AM by HarveyWildes »

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 08:28 PM »
Hi Edward

The jack rabbet is an amazing plane - I have referred to it in the past as a Swiss Army Knife (see my review here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasJackRabbetPlane.html)

However, it is inappropriate for the narrow rebates that are pre-cut on mouldings. The extra width of the blade, which you see as a bonus, is a hinderance in this regard. The appropriate plane is the Skew Rabbet plane. This is designed to do rebates first and foremost.

Also ignore the skew block planes. They are really used in cross grain work, and also lack a depth stop, which is very helpful. A depth stop is not essential, but then you do need to be careful in working to a line. One could use a shoulder plane (opening the mouth), but I'd rather have a rebate plane. A shoulder plane is very handy to have to finish the cuts, cleaning up, and squaring up where necessary.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3351
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2017, 03:47 PM »
Thanks, as always, @derekcohen


Hi Edward

The jack rabbet is an amazing plane - I have referred to it in the past as a Swiss Army Knife (see my review here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasJackRabbetPlane.html)

However, it is inappropriate for the narrow rebates that are pre-cut on mouldings. The extra width of the blade, which you see as a bonus, is a hinderance in this regard. The appropriate plane is the Skew Rabbet plane. This is designed to do rebates first and foremost.

Also ignore the skew block planes. They are really used in cross grain work, and also lack a depth stop, which is very helpful. A depth stop is not essential, but then you do need to be careful in working to a line. One could use a shoulder plane (opening the mouth), but I'd rather have a rebate plane. A shoulder plane is very handy to have to finish the cuts, cleaning up, and squaring up where necessary.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3351
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2017, 02:20 PM »
I ended up ordering the set of LH and RH skew rabbets from LV in PMV-11 along with the extra long rods.  Good thing I got a tax return this year.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 580
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2017, 05:01 PM »
Let us know how you like them after you get them tuned up and use them a bit.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3351
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 08:30 PM »
They've arrived. It will be a bit before I get to start using them, as I first have to finish up the entertainment center I'm building, at which point I can move to the moulding.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3351
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2017, 08:08 AM »
Well...I had heard that the skew rabbet plane was a little fussy to set up, but I had no idea.  I spent a little over two hrs last night just on one of the planes.  The complicated bit is that the leading edge has to be slightly proud of the side -- but not too proud so that the side of the blade knocks into the rabbet wall.  Problem is that you also have to be very precise about getting the blade parallel to the mouth -- so I kept on getting caught in this vicious circle where changing the parallel would mess up the projection of the edge, and vice versa.  The first half a dozen or so rabbets I attempted all had the same problem of beginning to slope downward toward the edge of the board.  Finally, after about 2 hrs of mounting frustration, I was able to cut a straight rabbet.  Phew.  But am I going to have to go through this every time I remount the blade after sharpening?  There are set screws that lock in the blade position, but even these are not a foolproof guarantee that the blade is set properly.  I'm definitely going to have to spend some more time with this plane to get comfortable.

Hand position is also a factor.  I discovered only late in the process that the best place for the non-tote hand was actually not the knob, but gripping the body of the plane applying side pressure.  I have pretty large hands, so this might be an issue particular to me.   
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 580
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2017, 09:12 AM »
Thanks for the update - I'm looking at these planes down the line, but the next buys are the custom jack and jointer planes - next couple of weeks, hopefully.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2017, 12:21 PM »
Hi Edward

This is how I hold the Skew Rabbet Plane...

Remove the knob and use it to place your thumb. Use lateral pressure against the fence ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3351
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2017, 01:01 PM »
Thanks @derekcohen .  Do you use the wooden fence add-on as a matter of course for all straight rabbeting work?  I can see how that might add additional stability.

Hi Edward

This is how I hold the Skew Rabbet Plane...

Remove the knob and use it to place your thumb. Use lateral pressure against the fence ...



Regards from Perth

Derek
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2017, 01:19 PM »
Edward ... yes.



Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 580
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2017, 01:39 PM »
@derekcohen, a couple of questions...

Is the blue tape meant to protect the surface of the wood that the fence is riding against?  I've thought of that idea, but was concerned that the blue tape would fall apart by the time I was done with an entire rabbet, and end up getting in the way.  Also wasn't sure is the tape wrinkles would get the way of an accurate cut.  But I'm guessing that it works for you, yes?

Have you used angled fences on these planes?  Assuming that you have, anything special about setting up or using the planes with the angled fence?

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 145
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 07:43 PM »
Hi Harvey

The blue tape was a visual aid when planing a stopped rebate (when building a chest of drawers) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward.html



Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3351
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2017, 07:42 AM »
Thanks Derek.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 580
Re: Skew rabbet plane vs. jack rabbet
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2017, 09:59 AM »
@derekcohen Nice technique, enjoyed the longer post, and finally found your home page in the process :).