Author Topic: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing  (Read 8496 times)

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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
I used the Combo Plane, bought in January or so, for the first time this weekend. If you are familiar with its sister, the Plow Plane, you should have little problem transitioning into this big brother. I heard some users struggling with the set-up or use but it should just be a plain learning curve thing, rather than anything related to its design.

After using the plane for hours and hours, I found these important:

1) Light cuts -- depth of cut over 0.5mm could be a cause for pushing troubles on maple (with reverse grain); 0.25mm or 0.35mm worked best for me on cherry or maple.

You can get away with 0.5mm or a little more cuts on pine/spruce (I had a close call on the SawStop with ripping a test-cut scrap spruce [eek] -- see image)

2) Waxing -- more important for this tool than for bench planes, especially when reeding

3) Use the fence on the other side now and then so you don't injure your dominant hand's shoulder!!! I use both the left and right hand fences on the Combo more for this reason than for grain issues

4) The new PM-V11 reeding and beading cutters were holding their edges well; I honed them before I  started and rehoned them in-between after hours of work.

I have borrowed a Stanley 45 and will try it out with the Veritas reed cutter tomorrow. By the way, it was hot in shop even when it was 12C or so...if you plowed for hours!



« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 11:52 AM by ChuckM »

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Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 788
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 11:19 PM »
I just tuned up and used the Veritas skew rabbet planes for the first time yesterday.  Same experience with depth of cut.  Very nice results.

For the volume of work, do you think the plane was efficient, or were you just enjoying the satisfaction of hand tools?

Do the depth of cut comments apply to the reeding blades, or just the flat blades?  My guess from your pics is that it applies to the reeding blades.

I assume that you're happy with the results - consistent depth and little to no tear-out?

Looks very nice to me.  Please show the finished project when you're done.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 11:32 AM »
The skew rabbet plane is another Veritas workhorse in my collection -- I actually have a pair! They are great for rabbeting, raised paneling, and coopering work.

* For the volume of work, do you think the plane was efficient, or were you just enjoying the satisfaction of hand tools?

Since this was my first use of the Combo Plane, I wanted to "stress test" every component of it and so I ran it through all the project members for hours. I would use this plane for selective moulding and beading work rather than as a replacement of my router bits. However, for small amounts of work, I think it is quicker to do it with this plane, without test cuts.

* Do the depth of cut comments apply to the reeding blades, or just the flat blades?  My guess from your pics is that it applies to the reeding blades.

Light cuts, as long as they are not too light, are my preference for the plow and combo plane. You have better control of the plane as you don't have to force your way through. This applies to all joinery planes.

* I assume that you're happy with the results - consistent depth and little to no tear-out?

Because I have used the Veritas plow (grooving, dadoing, beading, and T&G) for years, I am familiar with how the Combo Plane would behave even though I never used it before.

I have had very little tear-outs overall, and the tear-outs happened only because I didn't bother to turn the plane around (to do that, you change the fence to the other side). I haven't checked every piece yet (I would do that after trying out the Stanley 45), but they could be easily fixed, if necessary, by light sanding, or running those sections with a back-bevel cutter. The beading cutter also seen in one of the photos is sharpened with a back bevel, an idea gleaned from Australian woodworker Derek Cohen.

About the depth, I usually cut the profile slightly below the surface so it won't get pressed flat during the clamping process. The depth stops of the Combo Plane worked as designed.

My habit (with the plow and now the Combo) is to first set the stop to cut the profile flush with the surface and then reset the stop to cut the profile slightly below in the final pass. Of course, you can do it in just one single depth stop setting.

* Looks very nice to me.  Please show the finished project when you're done.

Will do. Thanks for your interest.


« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 06:02 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 540
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 12:00 PM »
That's some quality shaving :)

I have a veritas block and router planes and like both very much. If you want I can give you access to my Lee Valley whishlist so you can see all the planes I plan to get :P

I can't wait to see what you going to build with all that prep wood.

Thanks for posting!

Mario
Mario

Offline Green Mojo

  • Posts: 50
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2018, 05:30 PM »
Any advice on how to sharpen/hone the reeding and beading irons?

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 05:52 PM »
This is how I do it:

1) Hone the bevel with 4000X or equ. and then 8000X or equ. -- you should be able to feel a burr on the flat side; skip the 4000X if you hone often unless you can't get a burr easily with the 8000X. Some do the same with 1000X and 4000X (or 8000X) instead. Use whatever combination of grit you have and see how it works before going shopping.

2) Remove the burr on the flat side with 8000X or equ.

3) Remove any tiny burr on the profile edge with an abrasive wrapped around a dowel same or close to the size of the curve (don't overdo it or you could change the cutter's profile).
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 06:11 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Green Mojo

  • Posts: 50
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 06:07 PM »
Great - Thanks for the advice. In step 1, are you using a slip stone to hone the inside bevel?

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2018, 06:13 PM »
In step 1, I hone the FLAT part of the bevel. If you use a slip stone, it is used in Step 3.

The photo below shows the sharpening of an old iron which required more work than just a honing on a new Veritas cutter.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 06:16 PM by ChuckM »

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 96
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 07:36 PM »
Thanks for this discussion - I had been sitting on the fence about the Veritas Combination plane - and decided a couple of times to get it - and it was out of stock. I finally just ordered it and it came in a few weeks ago - still waiting on the box. Been ordering a few blades here and there getting ready to use it. Probably after Easter. I appreciate the discussion on sharpening - that still confuses me, but then I'm just finally sorting out how to sharpen my other planes - newbie to hand planes here...

I also was confused by your "Step 1" instruction and clarification - "Hone the FLAT part of the bevel"?

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 08:13 PM »
For a beading or reeding cutter, the underside consists of a flat bevel and a curved profile while the topside is flat. In my step 1, I hone the bevel (4000x) until I can feel a slight burr (wire edge) on the edge of the topside. I hone the bevel further with 8000x and then flip the iron over, and remove the burr on the 8000x stone or lapping film.

One school of thought (or practice) is that that is all you will need and you can now put the cutter back in the combo plane. I go one step further with the use of a slip stone/dowel and abrasive on the curve part. You can try out different approaches and see if you have any preference.

The more complex/deeper the profile and the wider the blade, the harder the cut is to make. In other words, a 1/8" Two-Reed Blade is easier to cut than a 1/4" Three-Reed Blade. Wood hardness is also another factor. In my example, I could cut the same reeding profile on two cherry pieces in the same amount of time it took me to reed only one hard maple board.

Other techniques in the use of a plow plane also apply this Comb Plane.

To get yourself warmed up with the new plane, I suggest making test cuts with the different cutters in your possession on softer, straight grained wood like spruce or even poplar first. Save your practice or actual work on harder wood like white oak or maple to the last. One final reminder: if the cutter digs in and you have to force your way, back up the cutter which in my experience would solve most of the planing issues.

Enjoy.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 10:23 PM by ChuckM »

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 96
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2018, 06:09 PM »
Good advice on the softer materials - I'm in a major kitchen remodel project - replacing the 30+ yr old, nasty, yellowed oak, with hard maple, coated with just wb poly, and the maple is what I have been fighting with as I learn to use and sharpen planes. Makes beautiful shavings when you sharpen correctly... I'm a few weeks from being able to spend time with it, but will revisit this thread when I do.  Thanks for your patient answers...

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 226
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2018, 07:57 PM »
Quote
3) Use the fence on the other side now and then so you don't injure your dominant hand's shoulder!!! I use both the left and right hand fences on the Combo more for this reason than for grain issues

Chuck, as far as I know, the Combo only has one fence. Are you referring to the depth stop? If so, only allow very light pressure on it.

Quote
4) The new PM-V11 reeding and beading cutters were holding their edges well; I honed them before I  started and rehoned them in-between after hours of work.

Upon receiving the Combo plane, I recommend that one finds a section of really easy wood to plane, and running off the profiles. These  may later be used with Lee Valley green compound to hone the blades.

The second issue here is that these blades are vulnerable to tearout with reversing grain (Rule #1 with beads is to only use the mildest grain). To get around this, add a 15 degree micro back bevel to the blade. This increases the cutting angle to 60 degrees, which will reduce or eliminate tearout. See this article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasSmallPlowasaBeadingPlane.html

I have just begun on a series of set up articles for the Combination Plane. Here is the first, planing dados ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCombinationPlane-dados.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 02:21 AM by derekcohen »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2018, 10:00 PM »
3) Use the fence on the other side now and then so you don't injure your dominant hand's shoulder!!! I use both the left and right hand fences on the Combo more for this reason than for grain issues

Chuck, as far as I know, the Combo only has one fence. Are you referring to the depth stop? If so, only allow very light pressure on it.

Hi Derek,

By L & R fences, I meant first installing the fence on one side of the body (say, on the side of the sliding section) and, after using it (with the right hand) for a good amount of time, then installing the fence on the other side of the body for further cutting (this time using the left hand as the dominant hand to push).

Switching the fence (and the dominant hand) is good for the shoulders and/or for handling the grain.

By the way, I did try the borrowed Stanley 45 with the Veritas reeding cutter and the result was...dismal.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 10:37 AM by ChuckM »

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 788
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2018, 08:32 AM »
...
The second issue here is that these blades are vulnerable to tearout with reversing grain (Rule #1 with beads is to only use the mildest grain). To get around this, add a 15 degree micro back bevel to the blade. This increases the cutting angle to 60 degrees, which will reduce or eliminate tearout. See this article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasSmallPlowasaBeadingPlane.html

I have just begun on a series of set up articles for the Combination Plane. Here is the first, planing dados ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCombinationPlane-dados.html

...

Nice articles.

Offline suds

  • Posts: 390
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2018, 10:22 PM »
Great information. I’m just beginning to use mine and this information is really helpful.
MFT's, Kapex, TS 55, Vac, 150 Rotrex, 300 Trion, Domino

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2018, 10:24 AM »
I have decided to get one of the blade boxes from Lee Valley to keep my plow/combo plane cutters (it would cost more to make my own if you counted in the labour costs).

I made a slight change to the box by using magnets (1/4") to keep the lid and box together.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 10:27 AM by ChuckM »

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 896
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2018, 03:03 PM »
I could use the Veritas Combo Plane with the reeding profile for making antislip ridges on 7 outdoor woodenstairs  on a playground feature. Too bad it's so expensive. If I had several smaller projects planned I think it's an attractive alternative to electric router. The irons are relatively inexpensive and can be resharpened too.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 03:07 PM by PreferrablyWood »
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2018, 04:36 PM »
I could use the Veritas Combo Plane with the reeding profile for making antislip ridges on 7 outdoor woodenstairs  on a playground feature. Too bad it's so expensive. If I had several smaller projects planned I think it's an attractive alternative to electric router. The irons are relatively inexpensive and can be resharpened too.

I am not a tool hoarder by any definition, although I do own a lot of tools/machines that are constantly used. Those that seldom get used are usually sold on the Kijiji. My shop is small, so whenever I get a new tool, I try to sell a tool whose functions that can be fulfilled or partially fulfilled by the new kid in the shop. An example: Soon after I got familiar with my DF500 through use, I sold my Delta Bench Mortising machine, recovering close to 90% of the price paid for the mortiser.

In the old days, I had both the jointer and the thickness planer, but the jointer went out the door through Kijiji after I got a new cabinet saw and built a jig for edge-jointing rough lumber on the tablesaw.

After I bought the Veritas Combo Plane, I could've sold my Plow Plane, but I am keeping it (for now) for the T&G operation. Like you, I seldom buy a tool for a one-time job, and already I've used the new Combo plane in two projects; am using it for a third project, with a fourth one planned to start after the summer.

Although premium brands like Veritas don't go up in prices as much as Festool annually, they do creep up in line with increases in the manufacturing costs (materials, labour, etc.). As long as I see the potentials to use a good tool (like the DF500 which has been used in numerous projects), I don't pay attention to its initial purchase cost. After all, with premium brands, I usually can recover 60% to 70% of their original costs. If I use a tool for 4 or 5 years in half a dozen projects or more, the 30% to 40% discounts might be cheaper than rental costs. For a similar reasoning, I have got a TS75 and track, which I am pretty sure will get listed on Kijiji one day (as my tablesaw now can handle large sheets after the addition of the JessEm clear-cut stock guides).
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 05:09 PM by ChuckM »

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 896
Re: Veritas Combo Plane -- A Workhorse with a Strong Showing
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2018, 10:14 AM »
Now I've ordered the Veritas Combo Plane with only one ekstra blade the 4 reed 1/8 inch PMV 11 blade. It is needed for a specific job and will add much value to the project at hand. I'm also looking forward to having an alternative method from routers or electric sanders  for my projects so I can continue working into the evening at onsite projects without disturbing neighbours.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 12:20 PM by PreferrablyWood »
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.