Author Topic: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?  (Read 48901 times)

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Offline John Russell

  • Posts: 113
Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« on: October 21, 2007, 07:49 PM »
I am at a point where I would like to have some quality metric and a few imperial wrenches and quality screwdrivers. I have an assortment of wrenches and drivers that have appeared over the years and I find them of mixed quality, so I am on the search and I thought folks here might have some ideas.

I am thinking of either Facom or Snapon metric wrenches and a set of Snap-on screwdrivers plus a quality ratcheting screwdriver, Snap-on or other.

I know there are strong beliefs about Craftsman, SK and other tools, but am I on the right track with the Facom or Snap-on wrenches and drivers?
Thanks,
JR

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Greg in Memphis

  • Posts: 80
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2007, 08:52 PM »
I tend to lump all drop forged wrenches, ratchets, and sockets together. Craftsman, SK, and Snap-on fit this category. They are all tough, and will usually outlive the owner.
I don't have any experience with Facom. If they are drop forged, I am sure they should hold up well.
For me, I'm kinda partial to Craftsman just because you can replace a broken tool at any Sears with no hassle at all.
Snap-on wrenches and sockets are great products, but their ratchets IMO are not as good as SK. I have never seen a broken SK ratchet.

hope this may help

Greg
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 08:53 PM by Greg in Memphis »

Offline Eli

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2007, 01:08 AM »
I'm with Greg. They're all pretty good after a certain point. Before I left the states I noticed Costco pretty regularly had fantastic deals on sets that had everything. Imperial (I've learned Americans are the only ones who call them "standard"), metric, screwdrivers, pliers, etc.

Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2537
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2007, 01:58 AM »
I've had Craftsman wrenches since I was 17.  At 18 I bought a 240Z -- needed to add metric.  Still have 'em.  And the roll-away.  Wow, 17 was a long time ago.  But they've lasted me 35 years, so you should do alright.

Now Sears carries Gear Wrench in addition to their Craftsman stuff.  Both brands have lifetime warranties.  AND both are available in combination wrenches with an open end and a ratcheting box end.  These are hard to beat.  
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 288
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 02:53 AM »
The plating peels off the newer Craftsman stuff. The wrenches aren't particularly strong - I've had the jaws stretch and walls of sockets break. Free replacement is good though.

Here's a little set of wrenches everyone needs; I used them when I repaired high tech manufacturing machinery and also carried a set on motorcycle adventures - very high quality:

W.F.M.C. Mini-Ratchet Tool Sets


Offline John Russell

  • Posts: 113
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2007, 12:05 AM »
Thanks for the replies. My life experience is not in tools and it is taking some time to sort out what tools make a difference. One of the reasons that I have invested in Festools is that some of them REALLY make a difference to my work style and habits. The sander, the saw, the routers are especially useful and just seem to allow me to get things done without the tool being in the way or generating new problems I don't have time to solve.

The more I use hand tools, the more I started thinking about what wrenches and screwdrivers might make a difference or maybe it is one of those things that for most folks those types of tools are interchangeable without much difference among the major brands. But each time I round off a nut or strip a screw head I wonder if there is a worthwhile difference in quality wrenches and drivers and in fact what is a quality driver?.

A little web research suggests people seem to think that Snap-on drivers and wrenches are one place where their tools are worth the premium price, just like some of us feel as if the Festool sanders and other tools are worth the premium price.

I guess the only way to know is to buy them and see if it makes any difference in my work ...
Thanks!
JR

Offline Eli

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2007, 02:42 AM »
Snap-On are premium wrenches. They are nice. Likely if this was a mechanic's forum you'd get the same purchase "suggestions" you get here for Festools. The only things I'd add is that usually the problem of rounding a nut is using the wrong size wrench, not the tool. A standard screw head strips just by waving a screwdriver at it, the guy who invented those should have been drawn and quartered. And if you use a PH1 (phillips) on a PH2 screw, you'll wreck it. It took me twenty years to not wreck things consistantly, and everybody slips in the course of natural impatience.

"Use makes master", as they say.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2007, 01:43 PM »
I tend to lump all drop forged wrenches, ratchets, and sockets together. Craftsman, SK, and Snap-on fit this category. They are all tough, and will usually outlive the owner.
I don't have any experience with Facom. If they are drop forged, I am sure they should hold up well.
For me, I'm kinda partial to Craftsman just because you can replace a broken tool at any Sears with no hassle at all.
Snap-on wrenches and sockets are great products, but their ratchets IMO are not as good as SK. I have never seen a broken SK ratchet.

hope this may help

Greg

Facom tools (made in France) are used by the Ferrari F1 team.  Do you think they would use anything less than what they perceive as the best when their annual budget is >$300 million?

Wiha tools makes some excellent products, including hex keys.  See http://www.wihatools.com/indexes/indxhex.htm

Heyco used to be OEM supplier of tools provided by BMW with their cars (back when they expected owners to do some of their own maintenance and repairs).

My father was a professional mechanic, and semi-professional gunsmith.  He preferred Proto (formerly Plumb and both, I think, now defunct) over Snap-On because they honored their free replacement guarantee no matter what the abuse whereas Snap-On was harder to deal with - and somewhat more costly.  (When the 3/8" drive socket or wrench you have is the only one that fits on that rusted fastener, that's what the mechanic will use.)  Wright and Mac also make high quality tools.  Craftsman is OK, but the wall thickness of their sockets often interferes or prevents their use in certain situations.  Even some of the Chinese/Taiwanese wrenches are OK for general use

Be very careful in regard to driver bit (inserts) for use with certain screws.  You need bits that actually fit the screws to do your best work.  If you have messed with any of the Torx head screws on a Festool TS 55 saw, you probably already realize that correct fitment of the bit relative to the (little screw) is important to avoid damaging the head of the fastener.  There are a lot of bit manufacturers (and screw manufacturers) who don't seem to understand the importance of getting the dimensions correct, including tolerances.  A quality bit of the right size and style will grip the fastner quite well and be far more resistant to camming out when applying torque (or otherwise bung up the screw).   A very simple example is use of the off-brand deck screws sold by the big box stores that allegedly fit a #2 or #3 Phillips head driver, depending on the size of the screw.  The fit of nearly any brand of Phillips driver bit into those screws will be rather poor and susceptible to camming out compared to the fit of a genuine Phillips brand bit into a genuine Phillips brand screw of the same sizes.  The fit of the latter is so good that a 3 1/2 inch deck screw will hang on the bit, even when pointed somewhat downward.  I have a set of Chinese bits which I go to only if I cannot find a bit to fit in my better tools  The powder metallurgy molded bits seem to be generally quite good.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Greg in Memphis

  • Posts: 80
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2007, 07:43 PM »
I'd really like to know if those Facom ratchets are drop forged or not.
I checked out the Facom website and could not see any info on the metallurgy or the manufacture process. 
Nice to know they have a gig with Ferrari.
I may be going out on a limb here, but I would not recommend them.

Greg
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 08:52 PM by Greg in Memphis »

Offline Emmanuel

  • Posts: 174
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2007, 08:53 PM »
Not talking from experience my budget didn't allow at the time but when I was living in France Facom was considered high end a little like how Festool is regarded now for hand held power tool.


Offline Woodenfish

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2007, 09:36 PM »
I am at a point where I would like to have some quality metric and a few imperial wrenches and quality screwdrivers. I have an assortment of wrenches and drivers that have appeared over the years and I find them of mixed quality, so I am on the search and I thought folks here might have some ideas.

Thanks,
JR
Some friends of mine who specialize in German auto repair always spoke highly of Stahlwille tools.

Offline brandon.nickel

  • Posts: 241
  • Currently Peoria, IL - Eventually back to CO
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2007, 11:41 PM »
I don't have any experience with Facom or SK, but like many I started my collection with Craftsman tools.  I used to work at Sears (long ago), so I'm very familiar with their products (and I got some great deals).  I started buying Snap-On about 8 years ago.  There is definitely a difference, but most people wouldn't care enough to pay the 3x increase in price.  I have both in my toolbox, but I always reach for the Snap-On first.  In the case of the things I abuse, I stick with Craftsman because they don't argue about the warranty.  Snap-On dealers will tell you "We sell prybars.  This is a screwdriver."  Sears doesn't care.

So, if you can get a deal on Snap-On or similar, I'd go for it, especially with open-end wrenches.  Sockets to a lesser extent.  I actually prefer my Craftsman ratchets because it's almost impossible to remove the socket from the Snap-On one with greasy hands.  I guess that's the downside of tighter tolerances.
TS55, MFT1080, Domino, OF1400, LR32, RO150E, DTS400, Trion, CT33

Offline Eli

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2007, 11:44 PM »
whatever you do don't get any of those monster garage type signature black chrome sockets. I had a friend who got some.Try finding one of those things on the floor under the car.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline greg mann

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 02:13 PM »
I understand 'using what you have' but, with all due respect guys, do you blame Snap-On for telling you that you used the wrong tool? We can do things with our Festools that will void the warranty. Why should anyone else not be able to have that caveat in their programs? Sears stands behind abused items because they have to. A large part of their market doesn't know one end of the screwdriver from the other. When anyone of us sophisticated enough to appreciate Festool abuses the wrong tool to the point of failure shame on us to want someone else to bail us out.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Daviddubya

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 02:58 PM »
I own an entire rolling box full of Craftsman hand tools.  They seem to last forever, and replacement of one once in a great while is easy.

I used a friend's Snap On hand tools many years ago.  They are more than just a pretty name.  These are very high quality tools, and worth the added cost, just as Festool products are worth the added cost.
David W. Falkenstein
in Cave Creek, AZ, USA

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2007, 03:36 PM »
I understand 'using what you have' but, with all due respect guys, do you blame Snap-On for telling you that you used the wrong tool? We can do things with our Festools that will void the warranty. Why should anyone else not be able to have that caveat in their programs? Sears stands behind abused items because they have to. A large part of their market doesn't know one end of the screwdriver from the other. When anyone of us sophisticated enough to appreciate Festool abuses the wrong tool to the point of failure shame on us to want someone else to bail us out.

Sorry, I have no intention of offending anyone.  My points are that sometimes what you may view as abuse is the only possible way to try to remove a rusted or overtorqued fastener, and that Snap-On was less liberal in replacing broken tools than many of its competitors.  My TS 55 saw came misadjusted with toe-out. The torx headed screws that hold the base to the upper portion of my saw were very tight.  The only way I could see to loosen to those screws was to insert the itty-bitty torx bit driver, then tap them with a hammer, then twist.   They came off, but not before I had considerably wound up the torx key.  Generally, I expect the fastener to break before the tool (unless the tool was made in China, etc.)

Dave R. 
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline brandon.nickel

  • Posts: 241
  • Currently Peoria, IL - Eventually back to CO
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2007, 11:49 PM »
I agree with Dave.  I don't condone willfully "screwing" the manufacturer, and I try to match my tools with their intended purpose.  I also expect the fastener to break before the tool used to turn it (see my old rant about the adjustment set-screw on my Domino stripping out).  The Snap-On wrenches grip tighter than the Craftsman.  There is no debate for me on this one.  Even if you can't get a perfect grip using an open-end wrench, the Snap-On will grip and turn when the Craftsman just slips off.  I've seen this many, many times in my own hands.  That being said, for the vast majority of jobs and people, the Craftsman is more than adequate and appeals to a much broader market by means of their incredibly low pricing.  Only those willing to shell out the extra cash are likely to appreciate the differences (like those of us who buy Festools).
TS55, MFT1080, Domino, OF1400, LR32, RO150E, DTS400, Trion, CT33

Offline greg mann

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2007, 09:28 AM »
Maybe I overstated my case a little. To clarify a bit, I have been in the same circumstances you guys have for sure. If any of us have a rusted fastener or whatever that requires us to go to extraordinary means to loosen we do what we are forced to do. I guess the difference for me is that I view many of these tools as perishable. Let me explain. I work in an industrial environment where we purchase Torx drivers and hex wrenches at least a dozen at a time, almost always Wiha brand which are head and shoulders above any others we have tried and the brand most often suppied by good  cutting tool manufacturers worldwide. We still wear them out pretty quickly. No one here expects them to last very long because they are in constant use. My point is that the Snap-On socket, which I also agree is significantly better than a Craftsman socket, is a perishable item and we hasten that process when we push it to its limits. Yes, they have a lifetime guarantee, and most all companies from Sears on up the chain will replace their products quite liberally, beyond normal wear and tear, but using a tool beyond its limits is a choice we all make at one point or another and its failure at that time is something I feel we should take responsibility for. If you don't agree, that's fine. It is just my personal philosophy.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Eli

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2007, 10:28 AM »
So, John, a few definite differences in opinion on quality. I think your original question has been well addressed. No question the consensus is you wouldn't go wrong buying Snap-ons. You could get away with Sears or Craftsman if you're an occasional user. My own set is Crescent (for just over $100AUD for the full set I couldn't just leave them sitting there all lonely, now could I?). I've got some Wiha hexes that are quite nice. Another thing I'd add to my earlier tips is don't bear down hard on a ball hex driver, you could end up snapping off the end of it in the fastener head. That's the definition of a nightmare.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline John Russell

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2007, 07:58 PM »
Yes Eli, these are all good observations and comments that have helped. I am going to order a set of either FACOM or Snap-on metric wrenches and then a set of screwdrivers of the same brand just to make ordering life simple. Either should be a good choice for me. Thanks again for the thoughtful replies.

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2007, 09:23 PM »
If you have decided to go "top shelf" also consider that Snap-On dealers are pretty much everywhere around USA, and thus may be easier to contact if you want to add to your collection, or need something special.  They certainly offer many special application tools, and are often the first or the only maker to offer a special tool for a particular application, e.g. when the automotive designers decide to use a new fastener style or to require a special tool to fit some adjustment mechanism.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Eli

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2007, 05:52 AM »
Or if you work a big jobsite, the Snap-on 'candy' truck comes around pretty often. ;D
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline ScooterX

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2007, 08:34 PM »
The difference between the Snap-On tools and the Craftsman is the same as the difference between Festool and Craftsman.

If you are a hobbiest, it will depend on how much you  use the tools, and how much money you have.

If you are a professional, the Snap-On tools will increase your productivity and decrease hand fatigue. Craftsman makes wrenches with slightly rougher edges on the handle (where you grip) to help you when your hands are greasy. This is great for a shade-tree mechanic changing his oil. If you use them all day your hands will feel sore and cut up. The Snap-On are smooth, balanced, stronger, thinner (so they can sometimes fit places other tools wont) and a joy to work with.

Both have a lifetime guaranty.

That said, a 1/4" drive ratched and 6-sided metric sockets will put you back $249... the same thing from Sears is probably $59.

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2007, 12:55 AM »
Thinner sockets (and some of the wrenches) enable you to work some fasteners that a Craftsman socket (or wrench) cannot.  That is exactly why my father bought Snap-On and Proto brand tools.  Some of the Craftsman sockets and box wrenches are visibly uneven in wall thickness around their circumference.  Guess where they break?

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Eli

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2007, 04:26 AM »
MAC are pretty good too aren't they? I've only had a very few things from them, so I can't really comment, but I was pleased, and they're a bit cheaper than Snap-Ons (depending on what you buy, I think some things are actually dearer). But there is only one Snap-On, that's why every entry above has a reference to Snap-On, no matter what tool we're actually talking about.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2007, 08:22 PM »
Yes, they are, and so is Cornwell.  They both have distribution systems similar to Snap-On. 

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Paul Farrar

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2007, 01:44 AM »
Most mechanics tools in the US, except for Chinese cheapies, are made by only three companies: Stanley, Danaher, and Snap-On. Each makes several quality levels (pro, hobbyist, and Wal-mart), though not necessarily all levels. They also make different brands for different labels and distribution methods.

Stanley
   Pro-industrial: Proto (except Proto Blackhawk, which is Wal-mart level), Facom, S-K (Facom[French] bought S-K and was then bought by Stanley, S-K is a mix of original S-K, Facom, and Stanley)
   Pro-dealer truck: MAC
   Hobbyist and Wal-mart: Stanley
   Store label: old Craftsman, HD Huskey
Danaher
   Pro-industrial: Armstrong, Craftsman, Allen, others
   Pro-dealer truck: Matco
   Store label: Craftsman
Snap-On
   Pro-industrial and truck: Snap-On
   Hobbyist: Blue Point
   Store label: Lowes Kobalt (make them, but they are not relabeled Snap-Ons)
There is also the small truck-distributed Cornwell.

It's all pretty confusing, with industry consolidation, contracting out, relabelling etc. I probably got something wrong.
   

Offline Garry

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2007, 01:52 AM »
Just to throw fuel on the fire, I have a set of Husky (Home Depot's house brand) sockets (with a few other 1/4" hex drive accesories), that I use daily for everything from mounting TV's with a drill (driving a socket) to dropping transmissions. I've had this set for about 5 years, and I haven't suffered even a broken phillips bit from that set, and they offer the same lifetime warranty that Sears does on Craftsman.  The set  has 1/4, 3/8, & 1/2" drive, metric and standard, regular and deep well sockets from very small (1/4") up to 1 1/4" (with metric equivalents), with wrenchs from 3/8 to 1", and I think the whole kit (with a case) cost $149.

Please understand that I am not promoting that you shop at Home Depot, but I've been pretty pleased with this set.
http://www.avidhome.com  You're only young once, but you can be immature forever!

Offline Eli

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2007, 01:54 AM »
Thanks Paul. That's good info. I had no idea.

I have some Husky stuff too Garry, a set of sockets I think? They're good.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Jim Dailey

  • Posts: 278
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2007, 08:19 AM »
For high end (spendy...) screw drivers & pliers I'd add the German Wiha brand. 

Once you try them...  a Stanley or Craftsman doesn't feel comfortable in the hand.  The electricians pliers & screw drivers are coated to take a 1,000 amps....  I hope I never do something to where I'll need that protection, but it's nice to know it there.

jim
Life is just a series of projects...

Offline Allen Akin

  • Posts: 27
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2007, 07:19 PM »
I'll second the recommendation for Wiha.  I've been very impressed with the quality of their tools.

Allen

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Woodenfish

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2007, 09:55 AM »
Snap-On tools are popular with many mechanic's and technicians due to their vast catalog of available designs, tool strength and comfort, flawless finish, free girlie calenders and most importantly, easy weekly payment plans! (Hint, hint! Whink, whink Festool!) If your not in service and repair trades but are a cash buyer that is interested in obtaining large quantities of these pro-grade tools, I doubt that you will have a hard time getting curb-side service at your home from a local dealer.

I like the newer designed Craftsman Professional set with the comfort grips. After owning a set of these too for home use, I find them to be a good value. They are light weight, well balanced, very strong, fit screws well and sell for a whole lot less dough. Afterall, when I need to turn a screw I usually grab a cordless drill/driver first so I would rather have spent more for a better tool in that category.

After owning way too many Snap-On wrench sets I have developed a feel for the tool's feel and balance. Put another brand in my hands and my fingers will suddenly change to all thumbs. I'm sure that others have similar experiences when changing brands too. That said, a good general assortment of metric Snap-On combination wrenches 7-21mm are roughly US$500, certainly not priced for occasional users. Craigslist and eBay are great sources for like new, used Snap-On tools at much better pricing. 

Offline casper

  • Posts: 15
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2007, 08:16 AM »
Some friends of mine who specialize in German auto repair always spoke highly of Stahlwille tools.

Amongst the best in the world and still made in Germany. Snapon don't even come close IMHO. I have the choice of both and use Stahlwille every time. Then you have Hazett which are comparable to Stahlwille and for drive bits go here

http://pbtoolsus.thomasnet.com/category/precision-bits?

Offline bustedbolt

  • Posts: 20
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2007, 09:35 PM »
just a little point about german hand tools.

THEY FIT GERMAN FASTNERS.

thats it. simply. stahlwille, hazet, wiha, gedore, heyco, knipex, facom (ok euro).

this works especially well with BMW (heyco), and MBENZ and VOLKSWAGEN
the product was designed around this tool.

That little metric wrench that comes with the domino? thats exactly what they look like
most distinctly the wrenches are thin and stronger!.. a craftsman wrench will be 2x as tall at the fastner.
It will do the job just not if the fastner comes from a country where they dont have these cheap fat wrenches.

Secondly. the wrenches just fit german fastners better. tighter. and they last forever.
thirdly, they make a good product in germany. we all know that here.

I like the wiha screwdrivers with oil /slip handle. fat handles, more torque, and fit a wrench if you need extra HD snap torque.
also their bits are good. you do know about good bits dont you?




Offline Dave Rudy

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2007, 08:55 AM »
for drive bits go here

http://pbtoolsus.thomasnet.com/category/precision-bits?

This thread has been very helpful for those of us who know nothing (or close to) on this subject.  I took a look at this link and had a thought:

Anyone know whether E6 bits fit the Centrotec chuck?

That would solve a different problem.

Offline Bob Childress

  • Posts: 121
  • South Carolina, USA
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2007, 04:13 PM »
Shoot! I thought it said "Wenches and screwdrivers" and I was expecting a discussion of ladies and vodka drinks. Phooey!  ;D
TS-55, RO-150, ETS-150/3, DX-93, LS-130, CT-22, OF-1000, DF-500Q, C-12

Offline casper

  • Posts: 15
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2007, 09:14 AM »
for drive bits go here

http://pbtoolsus.thomasnet.com/category/precision-bits?

This thread has been very helpful for those of us who know nothing (or close to) on this subject.  I took a look at this link and had a thought:

Anyone know whether E6 bits fit the Centrotec chuck?

That would solve a different problem.

No they don't fit Centrotec. Festool have cunningly sized it to be unique.

Offline Dave Rudy

  • Posts: 771
  • Coloroda Front Range, in the lee of Pikes Peak
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2007, 01:09 PM »
Too bad!

Thought I had a moment of inspiration there.

 :-[ :-\

Offline minimal

  • Posts: 77
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2008, 11:33 AM »
Beta is another brand of ridiculously high-end tools. Their prices seem to be below Snap-On, at least for the time being. I suspect this is similar to the Festool situation: prices are low(er) for a while until there is brand acceptance. They got the F1 contract recently (over Facom), not that it means anything.

http://www.procarestores.com/product/index.php

Offline Justin F.

  • Posts: 311
  • Louisiana, USA
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2008, 11:46 AM »
Wiha and Knipex are top quality stuff.   I have a Wiha set with Wiha's "soft finish" handle ----- I like em.


Justin
" The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding. "

Offline JJ Wavra

  • Posts: 246
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2008, 12:37 PM »
I recently met a snap on dealer at my local, and favorite coffee shop.  I am delighted with the products that I have purchased.  I baught two ratcheting screwdrivers one were the handle bends for extra torgue and one straight.  They are amazing.  The ratcheting mechanism actually works.  What I mean by this is that the ratcheting mechanism is so light you can use it with all types of screws and they won't back out when driving in a screw.  Also, there is a lot of accessories for them.  The shafts are interchangeable between the handles.  As an aside,  the bits are very good quality actually the best that I have used and my dealer told me they have a lifetime warranty also. 

What I did not realize is that if you go to a local dealer they may be cheaper than the website.  My dealer was about $35 cheaper for each screwdriver than the website.  So, the one screwdriver was around 45 and the other was around 55 dollars.  Factor in the lifetime warranty, I'm in my late twenties, and it was kind a of a no brainer for me.

As a side note to keep it fesreal, the ratcheting screwdrivers come in black and green similar to festool. ;D

JJ

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2008, 12:55 PM »
Just a slight update on Paul F's list...

I think SK is independent again. There was a time when Facom had them and they were discontinuing certain Facom lines, like ratchets because of overlap. I think when Stanley bought Facom, they split them and sold out on SK.

I've been selling SK stuff for years and never had a complaint.

I'm sure it pales in comparison to some of the high-end European tools, but it depends on what you're trying to do.


Tom


They also sell 1000 Volt screwdrivers.
Tom Bellemare
Customer Svc
Tool Home LLC
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Offline Per Swenson

  • Posts: 871
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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2008, 06:47 PM »
Consider 3 things all.

application, application, and application.

Thing is, if there aren't 3 full, complete everything in the catalog wrench sets around here there are 4.

20 bucks sez there ain't a 7/16. or 9/16 in any of them. But one, The one thats locked and unopened.

Here at redneck automotive, fix in yer driveway cause thats the way it is. This stuff just disappears.

Nobodys stealing, just gets left in the driveway and under the hood.

Or junior needs a set to go to his sisters house.

So look at what you do with these tools.

Anybody else ever gonna touch em?  Ever?

You workin on the rattle trap in the driveway or the custom/classic/sports car on the lift in your own garage?

We all want the best, or we wouldn't be here.

But with that, we should infuse a little practicality.

Per
Party like its 1929. It's the American way.


There outta be a law banning sesquipedalianism on

internet forums.

www.swensonz.com

Offline Eli

  • Posts: 2501
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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2008, 07:00 PM »
How's this for staying reasonable? I certainly fit the profile you described Per.
When I moved, I got here before the tools. So of course I needed some 'interim' tools. The local big box had a blow molded flip out set of Crescent wrenches with everything, allens, torx, three sets of sockets, socket handles, combo box end wrenches, screwdrivers. Just over a hundred bucks. I went out to look at it yesterday while I was making smoke and dust in the shed. The 9/16 box wrench is missing! Can't figure out what I did with it. I think it's in the box with the lag bolts, but I can't find that either.  :-[
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Hans Mertens

  • Posts: 127
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2008, 03:59 PM »
Hello,

what about WERA, another German brand.  I have some of there screwdrivers and always use there bits.  It's great material, they also make ratchets Wera Zyklop, but no wrenches.
The ratchet is fairly new and seems something worth looking into.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 04:00 PM by Mettes »

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2008, 02:26 PM »
Consider 3 things all.

application, application, and application.
We all want the best, or we wouldn't be here.

But with that, we should infuse a little practicality.

Per


I generally agree with Per's overall commentary, but I have also found many instances in which the less expensive tool simply could not not work at all due to its excessive dimensions.  Recently I installed a fabricated metal bar clamp rack (for Bessey style clamps) from Woodpeckers on the wall of my shop.  None of my Craftsman sockets would fit through the space between adjacent slots so I could drive the lag screws.  But the thinner wall sockets from my dad's Proto and Snap-On tools fit easily.  If I did not have these, I would have had to make another run to the borg to get smaller lag screws.  I have run into the same type of interference/clearance problems many times when working on cars and machinery -- the cheaper wrenches and sockets are too large to fit into the available space at all, and/or their sloppy manufacturing tolerances cause rounded off fastener heads.  Poorly fitting screw drivers bung up the heads of the screws.

Per is certainly right that some tools seem to quickly develop legs and walk away from the tool chest.  So I recommend buying a couple extras of those items.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 288
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2008, 03:10 PM »
Needed that snap-on socket to tighten the 16pt cylinder base bolts on the big stroker.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3288
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2008, 03:47 PM »
 have a large assortment of screwdrivers spanning a century. I second the suggestion of Wera screwdrivers. I only have a few Weras but they are far better than the next best in handle comfort and versatility of use. That is, you can grasp the handle a number of ways and it's still comfortable and allows quick or high torque use as needed.

Offline John Langevin

  • Posts: 245
  • Springfield, MA
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2008, 10:01 PM »
As a young gunmaker, one of the best tips my instructor ever gave me was 'Brownell's, Inc. Montezuma, IA" they make  or sell  a wonderful variety of very high quality, American made hand tools. my favorite are their "Magnatip" screwdrivers; around 50 ground tip, high quality, tool steel  bits with a stubby and longer handle in a case for around $75.00 (haven't checked the price lately). The plain slotted tips ( which constitute the vast majority) are hollow ground so that they won't 'cam out' of a slot, fit virtually any screw ever made and fit any standard hex driver. I have had my set since 19?? and have never broken one.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 10:02 PM by John Langevin »
Practicing Mediocrity Never Begets Perfection

Offline BIP

  • Posts: 34
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2008, 11:37 PM »
....Snap On stuff also looks prettier.....



Seriously though, I have the Snap On ratcheting screwdriver Master set and love the ratcheting mechanism and ergonomics of the soft grip handle.  As for regular screwdrivers, I have a set of Matco screwdrivers that have very nice grips and are made by a German company (can't remember which one but I believe it starts with "W").

Offline johnbro

  • Posts: 128
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2008, 12:16 AM »
Just more stuff to think about.

Used to be a mechanic--bought a lot of tools from Snappy on his weekly visits. Still have some sockets, wrenches, and a ratchet or two from the '70s.

Thin wall has been mentioned multiple times--it's absolutely true, the higher-end sockets tend to be thin wall which sometimes is the only way to remove a fastener.

Years ago Snap-on patented something call Flank Drive IIRC and it provided a bit more gripping strength--was incorporated into box wrenches and sockets. My newer combo wrenches have something like this on the open-end side as well.

A lot of the difficult aspect of professional auto repair is dealing with stuck fasteners--if you only work on new cars you won't often encounter 30 year old rusted bolts in inaccessible locations. A few things help get those stuck fasteners unstuck (aside from a torch, that is): 1) quality of the fit of the tool--closer tolerances don't permit as much slippage, which results in weaker grip on the flats of the nut or bolt head; 2) strength of the tool when you really really hurk on it; 3) 6 or 12 points--6 has bigger flats so more gripping strength; 3) comfort--as you put more pressure on it can your hand stand it? 4) alignment--if the tool (particularly a socket) starts to angle under pressure it can round off the fastener; 5) swing on a ratchet--ie how little can you move the handle and get a "click".

Amateurs who are repairing the old Chevy or restoring a wreck can encounter a stuck fastener and spend all day puzzling out how to unstuck it. A mechanic gets paid on flat rate--he/she is losing money with every second of screwing around. They'll pay for something that will get stuff loose quickly.

Screwdrivers: Wiha are nice, I like both them and Snapon. My snapons are the only ones in my screwdriver drawer in a fitted case, I don't reach for them first, I reach for them last :) I hate the little hard plastic handles on screwdrivers (CMan have a bunch with these handles). I like the fat, soft rubbery handles you can really get a grip on. Some bigger screwdrivers have a hex-shape in the shaft next to the handle, you can press down hard while turning with a wrench--kind of like using a bit brace. Has saved my bacon more than once. I think I have one monster slot head screwdriver with that configuration.

Have broken Wiha and Snapon screwdrivers, had both replaced under warranty. Wasn't using as prybar, either, just bad metal I guess.

I currently have a dead Cman 1/4" ratchet and a 30-year-old dead Snap-on 3/8" drive shorty ratchet. It's so old the repair kit that Snap-on gave me won't work.

With C-man I can run the dead tool to Sears and I'm done. With Snap-on I have to hope that I see a truck in a shop when I'm driving by and have time to stop and talk to the dealer. Oh, yeah, I have to keep the broken tool in my glovebox so I'll have it... Maybe there's another way to get my stuff replaced, I guess I should check the web.

The newer C-man and SK tools are excellent, no complaints. So are some stubby combo wrenches I bought from Costco, probably made in China. I don't hurk on them, of course.

I have some odd-sized screw drivers that I don't use often but they get me out of jams. Once is a slothead (C-man) that's about 2 feet long. There was a particular screw on a car I had that couldn't be reached without it. I used it last weekend to adjust the carb on an old F150 without having to climb up on the bumper. I have a wide, short Cman slot head that I use a lot, it's also great for opening varnish cans. I have a skinny slot head that's rarely used as a screwdriver but is handy for getting dog poop out of my boot soles, digging out little crevices from goop, stuff like that. Every once in a while I find a tiny screw in a tiny hole that only this driver can reach. I probably have 30 screwdrivers...

TS 55, 3 guide rails, MFT 1080, RO 150, ETS 150/3, MFK 700, OF 1400, Kapex 120, Domino 500, CT 26

Offline thrashkots

  • Posts: 7
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2008, 09:20 AM »
Old post, new reply! ;D
I would definitely go for Facom. I work on the shipping industry (i' m a marine officer) and good tools are of absolute importance
(you see in the middle of the Atlantic there are no shops to replace your broken No 16 wrench when you need it :-). Facom even though
are pretty expensive are a must-have. When i'm at home  (like now) i do a lot of furniture making and most of the hand tools i use are
Facom and Bahco. The difference between Facom and all the others is in extreme precision. If you try to fasten a hex bolt with an ordinary
adjustable and with even the cheapest Facom you will probably understand what i am talking about. Frenchies know how to make their
tools work for you. As for rigidness they are Precision-hardened,  anti-corrosion treated and manufactured as per ISO 6787 and DIN 3117
standards.   

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #52 on: December 26, 2008, 01:44 PM »
As a young gunmaker, one of the best tips my instructor ever gave me was 'Brownell's, Inc. Montezuma, IA" they make  or sell  a wonderful variety of very high quality, American made hand tools. my favorite are their "Magnatip" screwdrivers; around 50 ground tip, high quality, tool steel  bits with a stubby and longer handle in a case for around $75.00 (haven't checked the price lately). The plain slotted tips ( which constitute the vast majority) are hollow ground so that they won't 'cam out' of a slot, fit virtually any screw ever made and fit any standard hex driver. I have had my set since 19?? and have never broken one.

I concur.  I purchased one of their lesser sized sets ~30 years ago as a gift to my father who did gunsmithing as a side business -- he was a professional automotive and heavy truck mechanic most of his working career.  I inherited that set at his passing.  He permanently torque twisted a couple of those bits taking apart some firearms, but never broke any.  Nor did he ever strip any of the gun screws or burr their heads.  The set I have has a very compact, quality ratcheting lever arm which grips the bits by their 1/4 inch drive heads.  I frequently use that mini-ratchet with other hexagonal 1/4 drive bits if I need more torque than I can apply with a common screwdriver handle.

For the benefit of those not familiar with quality firearms, the threaded fastners that are visible are frequently uniquely fitted to their tapped holes so their slotted heads are perfectly aligned and the contours perfectly match the surrounding metal.  You cannot simply go to a store, or even a gun dealer and buy an exact replacement screw.  Obviously, good tool and techniques are critical when working with these fasteners. 

Dave R.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 05:42 PM by Dave Ronyak »
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline norwegian wood

  • Posts: 130
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2009, 03:56 PM »
do snap on dealers have flex with their pricing? or are their prices the same as you see on snap-on's on-line catalogue? i have seen the snap on truck around from time to time but never had a chance to speak with him. just wondering if snap-on is like festool and sets the price. i have a feeling that is how it is. But the online prices seem way too expensive for wood workers to bother with. if i was working with them all day like i do with wood working tools then i would understand.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3616
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2009, 10:30 AM »
I used to buy all Snap-on tools.  Eventually, my son and his best friend developed an interest in wheeled, whether two, three or four, vehicles.  they would borrow my tools as they worked better than the junk tools they managed to afford.  they started the hobby at around 11 or 12 years old.  Everytime one of my Snap-ons would be borrowed, it iether found its way into one of the boys tool boxes or were left lying on the ground right where they left them.

Fast forward>>>  eventually, the boys were able to buy better tools as thier interests developed into more raodworthy vehicles.  They learned from both fathers that good tools seemed to work better than the cheapies they had been buying. Since both boys were working for me, and I paid them well, they started purchasing much better equipment.  A couple of times, i actually borrowed from them.  I could not wait for the chance to use their tools so I could just drop them where I had used them.  About the second time this happened was the last time.  I went to borrow and discovered they had also learned the value of buying VERY good padlocks. :o

Once the two boys were out of my yard and on their own (both are still basically in the same biz I had taught them years ago, son has own excavating biz and friend is manager of very large landcaping biz, so something must have worked alright), i started reloading with good ol' snap-on.  By then, I was hiring "strangers" and tools would just plain disappear into thin air.  I'm back to buying crapsman.  By time I retire, i won't need Snap-ons anymore.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2009, 07:46 PM »
I really like the Wera stuff.  The screwdrivers, tips, everything is really nice.  I belive they have tips and such that fit the Centrotec.

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2009, 09:07 PM »
I don't own any Centrotec chuck or bits... yet, but the Wera bits and bit chuck certainly look much like the Centrotec products.

Please test their interchangeability and let us FOG members know.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Tony M

  • Posts: 61
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2009, 09:17 PM »
do snap on dealers have flex with their pricing? or are their prices the same as you see on snap-on's on-line catalogue? i have seen the snap on truck around from time to time but never had a chance to speak with him. just wondering if snap-on is like festool and sets the price. i have a feeling that is how it is. But the online prices seem way too expensive for wood workers to bother with. if i was working with them all day like i do with wood working tools then i would understand.
They do run sales on a weekly basis, which sometime include a free tool or some type of collectable snap on novelty. You may also be able to hook up with tools that have been repossessed

Offline Bill in seattle

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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2009, 10:52 PM »
Thought I'd throw my .02c in as well.

I was lucky to inherit (though unlucky to loose my father in law) a few years back. He was a mechanic all his life and worked on the early Chevrolet production lines building engines for the first corvettes and such. He also was a avid racer and well known pioneer in the sprint car and nascar circuits. (or bootlegging back then) 
When he passed away I was given his tools by his wife who knew they would be most appreciated by me as he taught me a thing or two about wrenchin, more so than any of the other family members.
Most all the tools are snap on,  mac, and  s-k as well as some older earlier series craftsmans.. They got used everyday and still hold strong and in good shape pushing 40 50 years or more now. I can only believe that I will be able to pass them on to my sons someday. Now I add on to these

There is a difference between good tools in the way they fit, feel, balance and hold tight as well as  get into places others can't.  Lesser tools And I do own many of them as well, just don't compare. I do keep them separate from the tools people come to borrow though and the kids only use them when I'm with them,(I think)

My opinion is get the best you can afford for what you are going to do with them. If you take reasonable care and don't abuse them they should last a lifetime or more as in my case. Spend more on quality if you are going to use them all the time or less if just now and then.
 One thing I have learned is to keep the good stuff at home or in the shop if you can and then get ok basic sets for the car, truck or boat ect. Those are the ones that tend to wander off the most or collect rust or lost. I think of these as the broke down get me home emergency tools. If somebody breaks in and decides they need them more than me, (happened,) then I don't fret it as much. When I get home then I'll get the good ones out to dig into the repair work.
Its also kind of cool seeing louis name engraved on the wrenchs or sockets while I'm wrenchin wondering if these tools could talk............ ?

Bill



www.festoolsupply.com  complete stock of tools and accessories   and www.distinctivecountertops.com  where I use tools daily

Offline JJ Wavra

  • Posts: 246
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2009, 08:01 AM »
do snap on dealers have flex with their pricing? or are their prices the same as you see on snap-on's on-line catalogue? i have seen the snap on truck around from time to time but never had a chance to speak with him. just wondering if snap-on is like festool and sets the price. i have a feeling that is how it is. But the online prices seem way too expensive for wood workers to bother with. if i was working with them all day like i do with wood working tools then i would understand.

I found a local snap on dealer who was around 30-40% less than the internet price.  they can sell them for what they feel comfortable at is what I thought he said.

JJ

Offline quietguy

  • Posts: 491
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2009, 10:08 AM »
Quote
I found a local snap on dealer who was around 30-40% less than the internet price.  they can sell them for what they feel comfortable at is what I thought he said.

JJ

I have always found that the local dealers would work with you on price, especially the independents.  I had heard that some areas are now covered by larger franchise holders that do not allow much discounting, but am not sure of the reliability of the source.  It has been a couple of years since I bought any Snap-On tools, so I don't have recent experience either way.

I think that you also have to include Klein in the screwdriver conversation.  While I wouldn't consider them a "fine tool", they do make a great screwdriver.  I imagine that the quality has strayed a little as they have pushed into the "big box" stores, but have a couple of sets that are about 20 years old, and still in great shape.  Even when I was younger, dumber, and more abusive to my gear, I never had a tip break.  A couple of the larger flat heads have been used more as a chisel or pry bar than a driver.

Quote
My opinion is get the best you can afford for what you are going to do with them

Amen.  It has been said on this forum many times, but I never regret paying for quality.  I have kicked myself more than once for going the cheap route. 


Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Jimhart

  • Posts: 218
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2009, 10:14 AM »
Keep in mind that the Craftsman Lifetime warranty now refers to Sears lifetime, not yours.


Offline Steve-CO

  • Posts: 787
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2009, 11:24 AM »
This site carries a lot of higher end hand tools.  If you want to look at the catalogs listed, they're big and were easiest viewed after being downloaded to your pc instead of just opening from their web site.

http://chadstoolbox.com/

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2009, 12:26 PM »
Yeah, i agree.
You can go to www.tool-industry.com , there are various Wrench manufacturers and Screwdriver manufacturers there ;)

I never before heard of any of the featured companies listed on this linked site which are

    *    Kingxxel Tools Co.,Ltd
    * CEIEC Jiangsu Corporation
    * JINLI INDUSTRIAL CO.,LTD.
    * Nanjing Extop Tools & Hardware Corp.Ltd.
    * Summit Pro Built Power
    * Nanjing Sulang Trading Co., Ltd.
    * Hua Ning International Technical & Tradi...
    * Nanjing Touch Industry Co., Ltd.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Justin F.

  • Posts: 311
  • Louisiana, USA
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2009, 12:32 PM »
This site carries a lot of higher end hand tools.  If you want to look at the catalogs listed, they're big and were easiest viewed after being downloaded to your pc instead of just opening from their web site.

http://chadstoolbox.com/

I've ordered from this place more than once. Nice selection of tools.


Justin
" The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding. "

Offline jaredwayne

  • Posts: 3
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2009, 11:45 PM »
wiha tools, top notch hand tools. kinda like the festool of hand tools

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2009, 12:49 PM »
Thanks, Justin.  This site looks far more like what I am interested in.  I bought a set of Ruko metric HSS twist drills 1 to 10 mm in 1/2 mm steps in a metal index case when in Berlin Dec. 22, 2007.  They are well made and were moderately priced (about US$40) compared to some other brands at that dealer/builders' supply store which also carried a large line of Festool, Mafell, Makita and other tools.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Justin F.

  • Posts: 311
  • Louisiana, USA
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2009, 01:44 PM »
Cool Dave --- I don't want to take Steve-Co's credit , as I just seconded the site.  I've ordered Wiha, Felo, and Wera screwdrivers as well as Knipex pliers of all sorts from Chad's place.  I don't know the guy, but I think his store is a family owned joint, so I try to help him out when I can.

Justin
" The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding. "

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #68 on: February 27, 2009, 01:55 PM »
Justin, thanks, again, to both you and Steve-CO.  I just finished downloading and perusing the Ruko PDF catalog.   I note in it that many items are sold in packs.  Some of their hack saw blades look very interesting.  Their blade heat treatment profile and set tooth designs make a lot of sense to my engineering background.  But these blades are listed as coming in 100 blade packs.  I could never use that many in my lifetime.  Does Chad's break such large packs and sell in lesser quantities to hobbyists like me?  Many of Ruko's assortment of jigsaw and reciprocating and hole saws also look very interesting.   And core drill bits for anyone dealing with boring flanges of steel I-beams.

I'm downloading some other catalogs while catching up on FOG posts.  I can think of several tool items I'd like to buy, but not in large quantities.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Justin F.

  • Posts: 311
  • Louisiana, USA
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #69 on: February 27, 2009, 02:07 PM »
Dave --- I've never ordered such items, but I'm thinking he would be fairly flexible (especially if these economic times are hurting him a bit).   They tend to respond fairly quickly to email, and I believe Chad is typically the guy to do the responding. 

Justin
" The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding. "

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2009, 12:54 AM »
My tools budget is in greater trouble now.   ;D >:(   I spent a good part of this evening downloading and perusing some of the tool catalog's linked at Chads Tool Box, and I am wanting some of those many items.  I hate tools that don't properly engage their complementary fasteners, and as the size of each goes down, the importance of a proper fitment increases.  Otherwise, slipping and rounding off will occur.  And before the link to Chad's was posted here on FOG, I did not even know of some of these quality hand tool brands.  TiN and diamond coated bit tips, anyone? 

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Justin F.

  • Posts: 311
  • Louisiana, USA
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2009, 01:05 AM »
Dave, those Wiha, Wera, Knipex, etc.. catalogs are dangerous -------- hide your credit card  ;D.   They really are high quality tools Dave, and like Lays Chips,  you can't just eat (buy) one.   The driver bits are high quality --- as well as the bit holders --- and I mean just the plain old mom and pop, steel bits.

Justin
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 01:06 AM by Justin F. »
" The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding. "

Offline tom.smith

  • Posts: 34
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2009, 11:52 AM »
I am just now entering the world of Festool drilling. Have a T15+3 arriving tomorrow and wanted to buy some Wera diamond BiTorsion bits for it. As I understand it, that might be a problem.

I won't be able to use the Centrotec chuck with the Weras since they are a standard 1/4" drive. I've got three questions:
    1) Is the Centrotec chuck so great that replacing it with a Rapidaptor is a dumb idea?
    2) If the Centrotec really is that good, how do the Centrotec bits compare in quality to the Weras?
    3) Is there any other Wera-comparable bit out there that is Centrotec-compaitble?

I'm moving towards a metric-only solution, but I still have old projects with imperial fasteners. Having an imperial set for backup would be really handy. Interested in the full range of stuff, from driver bits to drill bits to nut setters to countersinks and counterbores. You can never have too many. ;D

Offline quietguy

  • Posts: 491
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2009, 12:16 PM »
You can probably use the Wera bits in the Centrotec bit holders and extension.  They accept standard 1/4" hex bits.

Offline Tom Bellemare

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  • Posts: 5148
  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
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Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2009, 12:46 PM »
The only advantage I see to the Rapidaptor (if I understand it correctly) is that it has some sort of bit "eject" mechanism. It would have to mount in the Jacobs style chuck, a Centrotec bit holder, or the output shaft of the drill.

The Festool 492540 - Centrotec Locking Bit Extension, BV 150 CE, grabs 1/4" hex bits, has a strong magnet to "suck in" the bits, and can be used one-handed.

The Festool Centrotec bits are really high quality and 100 mm long. As an alternate, the 1/4" hex, 25 mm long bits come in two qualities and the ZrN coated HiQ bits are premium quality also.

This reference has 4 parts and explains the Festool chucks, drill bits, and common driver bits.


Tom
Tom Bellemare
Customer Svc
Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Offline tom.smith

  • Posts: 34
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2009, 02:44 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.

The Rapidaptor with the ring magnet is the cool one. Yes, it would go straight into the drill's output shaft, obviating the need for the Centrotec, thereby making the T15 a straight 1/4" drive drill.

I think I can't really decide this until I get hands-on with the drill tomorrow. I like the Centrotec idea, just not sure if it's workable for me without an additional three figure investment.

The Weras are part of a system, much like Festool, where you mix and match parts to do what you need. Need a torque screwdriver? No problemo. Need stainless steel bits? Got you covered there as well. You use the same bits everywhere with every tool, so you only need to buy them once, and they last forever. Very "Festool-ish" philosophy.

Offline tom.smith

  • Posts: 34
Re: Wrenches and Screwdrivers?
« Reply #76 on: May 05, 2009, 04:39 PM »
The T15+3 came today...

Ohmygawd! From the time I turned this on at 2 RPM (yes, I timed it at 1 revolution every thirty seconds) and heard that sweet purring, I knew I was in for a treat. After I drove a 2 1/2" screw all the way into solid oak at that same 2 RPM, I was dumbstruck. This is like nothing I've ever used before. Full torque at any speed. The weight is almost the same as the little 10.8 V Bosch I always used to reach for first. Until now, that is. The Bosch is going into the garage sale. The T15 is one seriously sweet drill.

As you know, I worried about bits a lot. The Centrotec bit selection was extremely limited and regular 1/4" drive bits seemed like a cob job. Let me report, the included bit holder is first rate. All my 1/4" bits work like they were made for it, although the longer ones (like pocket hole bits) work better plugged right into the output shaft on the motor. Weras and other 1/4" bits work fine with nothing else to buy. The 25 mm long ones are better than the 50 mm ones. The longer they are, the more they can wobble. The locking bit holder is probably a wise decision if you have a lot of 2" long bits. Double-ended bits don't work too well, though.

Great feel, light, balanced, quiet, you can make music on it at the slowest speeds.  ;D  I love this drill already.