Author Topic: Boral TruExterior  (Read 2847 times)

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Boral TruExterior
« on: September 13, 2017, 12:12 AM »
all fabricated with Festools.

CMS with TS 75 and router insert.

Kapex

Domino

Tom

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Offline Goneshootin88

  • Posts: 34
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 12:28 AM »
Looks great as always. How do you like working with the Boral vs PVC?


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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
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Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 01:03 AM »
Looks great as always. How do you like working with the Boral vs PVC?


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Thanks.

Prefer Boral. Very stable with temperature changes, holds paint well, dust is much easier to contain. Downside it is brittle, once installed not really an issue.

Tom

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7628
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 05:50 AM »
Hmmm .. so you like our Boral products hmm? [big grin]

Offline gunnyr

  • Posts: 70
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 06:56 AM »
I like boral ok except, as you say, its brittle.  It doesn't taste very good either  [big grin]

What blade did you use in your TS75?
Semper Fi,
Jeff

PRO 5 LTD|TS 55 REQ|CXS|RO 90|CT 26|OF 1400|LR 32|DF 500|MFT/3|ETS 150/3|MFS 400/700|MFK 700|HKC 55|PSB 420|PDC 18
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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 09:47 AM »
Hmmm .. so you like our Boral products hmm? [big grin]

Yep, very stable with temp changes, holds paint well, can be painted dark colors.

Easier to control the dust than PVC dust.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 09:51 AM »
I like boral ok except, as you say, its brittle.  It doesn't taste very good either  [big grin]

What blade did you use in your TS75?

I shot a few videos of the process. I was going to edit them together---who am I kidding that will never happen.

Here is a link to the first video, the other 3 are on my channel also.



Tom

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 288
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 09:38 PM »
You are far more daring than I. I would never subject any quality tool to this product. I personally have ruined two SCMS cutting this product. Additionally, any cutters used on this product are dull to wood after only a few feet of cutting.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 10:29 AM »
You are far more daring than I. I would never subject any quality tool to this product. I personally have ruined two SCMS cutting this product. Additionally, any cutters used on this product are dull to wood after only a few feet of cutting.

The dust from Boral is far less abrasive than the solid surface material I work with. All done with the Festool system.

Did you have dust extraction on the SCMS? If not you, why not.

The router bit runs on wood just fine after 400 feet of shaping the Boral. The Domino 5mm bit shows no ill affects. The Forman bit still works well. I had to run a few rips with the TS-55, that blade was then used on wood.

I've run thousands of feet of fiber cement with my Festools prior to the Boral. They're holding up just fine. If you check the owners manual you'll see fiber cement is a product they list the tools to work with.

I would not expect cheep tools to hold up, quality tools should have no issues working with this product. Sometimes cheep is just to expensive for me.

Someone else much more respected in this field agrees, I found this after I posted my videos to YouTube.



As I stated in my first video, how you use the tools is up to you.

My out look on tools---they're tools choose wisely and use them, I'm definitely not one to baby them.

Tom

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 288
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 08:38 PM »
I didn't say or suggest that Boral was any more abrasive than solid surface.

SCMS:  10" Makita (x2) completely had to be torn down after 3 months of installing this product.  All dust seals replaced on slides, turntable completely taken apart and washed/relubed and reassembled, motor taken out and completely blown out...basically the saws weren't ruined, but by the time I paid the bill I could have purchased 1.5 new saws.  Neither of these saws have adequate dust collection, I've tried with no luck.

Blades/bits:  Forrest, Freud, CMT, Bosch...none survived to work with wood (without resharpening) after working with this product.  None of these cutters were specifically designed to be used with Boral or other abrasive products...maybe yours were.  Boral states that any cutter for wood can be used with Boral.  This is true only in one direction.  I have not been able to use wood cutters on wood after being used on Boral. In your video you are using a Hardi blade.  That is an excellent choice.

I've seen many "Gurus" shill various products/tools.  Why?  Because they are paid to.  I make it a practice not to follow exclusively the advice of paid promoters.  I may try what they suggest, but ultimately I decide for myself based on my experience.  I've seen too many contradictions from one video to another depending on the product/tool being showcased.

The only cheap tools I buy are ones that are subject to repeated abuse. Demo tools would be an example of tools that I consider disposable. Other than that I buy only Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Hitachi, Festool.  Almost all of my tools are purchased from brick and mortar tool supply stores. 



« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 08:50 PM by Naildrivingman »
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 11:45 PM »
I didn't say or suggest that Boral was any more abrasive than solid surface.

SCMS:  10" Makita (x2) completely had to be torn down after 3 months of installing this product.  All dust seals replaced on slides, turntable completely taken apart and washed/relubed and reassembled, motor taken out and completely blown out...basically the saws weren't ruined, but by the time I paid the bill I could have purchased 1.5 new saws.  Neither of these saws have adequate dust collection, I've tried with no luck.

Blades/bits:  Forrest, Freud, CMT, Bosch...none survived to work with wood (without resharpening) after working with this product.  None of these cutters were specifically designed to be used with Boral or other abrasive products...maybe yours were.  Boral states that any cutter for wood can be used with Boral.  This is true only in one direction.  I have not been able to use wood cutters on wood after being used on Boral. In your video you are using a Hardi blade.  That is an excellent choice.

I've seen many "Gurus" shill various products/tools.  Why?  Because they are paid to.  I make it a practice not to follow exclusively the advice of paid promoters.  I may try what they suggest, but ultimately I decide for myself based on my experience.  I've seen too many contradictions from one video to another depending on the product/tool being showcased.

The only cheap tools I buy are ones that are subject to repeated abuse. Demo tools would be an example of tools that I consider disposable. Other than that I buy only Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Hitachi, Festool.  Almost all of my tools are purchased from brick and mortar tool supply stores.

To start with I'm not a shill, a guru, or in any way compensated for what I post.

The saw blades are PCD, designed for fiber cement. The router bit is carbide and domino bit is just a plain old Domino bit. Next week I'll shoot a video of the router bits running on wood and some Domino plunges.

Festool specifically lists fiber cement and solid surface as products their tools can handle.

Dust collection hooked to the SCMS's? I know someone else who complains about dust from Boral, wont use dust collection or quality tools.

I collected over 45 pounds if dust fabricating the window casing. Thats 45 pounds of dust the tools did not have to deal with.

My Kapex has had no issues when I've cut fiber cement, solid surface or Boral.

Best part of this discussion is others can make a decision based on 2 views of working with the product.

Tom


Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 288
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2017, 08:34 AM »
I didn't say or suggest that Boral was any more abrasive than solid surface.

SCMS:  10" Makita (x2) completely had to be torn down after 3 months of installing this product.  All dust seals replaced on slides, turntable completely taken apart and washed/relubed and reassembled, motor taken out and completely blown out...basically the saws weren't ruined, but by the time I paid the bill I could have purchased 1.5 new saws.  Neither of these saws have adequate dust collection, I've tried with no luck.

Blades/bits:  Forrest, Freud, CMT, Bosch...none survived to work with wood (without resharpening) after working with this product.  None of these cutters were specifically designed to be used with Boral or other abrasive products...maybe yours were.  Boral states that any cutter for wood can be used with Boral.  This is true only in one direction.  I have not been able to use wood cutters on wood after being used on Boral. In your video you are using a Hardi blade.  That is an excellent choice.

I've seen many "Gurus" shill various products/tools.  Why?  Because they are paid to.  I make it a practice not to follow exclusively the advice of paid promoters.  I may try what they suggest, but ultimately I decide for myself based on my experience.  I've seen too many contradictions from one video to another depending on the product/tool being showcased.

The only cheap tools I buy are ones that are subject to repeated abuse. Demo tools would be an example of tools that I consider disposable. Other than that I buy only Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Hitachi, Festool.  Almost all of my tools are purchased from brick and mortar tool supply stores.

To start with I'm not a shill, a guru, or in any way compensated for what I post.

I didn't say you were.  I was referencing the individual in the video you posted.

The saw blades are PCD, designed for fiber cement. The router bit is carbide and domino bit is just a plain old Domino bit. Next week I'll shoot a video of the router bits running on wood and some Domino plunges.

I have used a similar 4 tooth blade for fiber cement, it works great on that.  Just for fun I tried the same blade on wood...I could have cut faster with a blow torch.  The other cutters I used worked great on wood, but once used on Boral, they quickly lost their edge and subsequently could not be used on wood until they were sharpened.  In my experience, any cutter will adequately and cleanly mill Boral regardless of sharpness, but a cutter used on wood must be relatively pristine or the results will be substandard.

Festool specifically lists fiber cement and solid surface as products their tools can handle.

Yes in the main manual, but not the supplemental US manual.  Festool also does not offer a specific fiber cement blade.  Makes me wonder if this provides an "out" for warranty coverage?  You specifically state in your video that the use of the fiber cement blade may void the warranty.  I'm not saying that one couldn't use FT for these products, I'm asking if one should use FT for these products.

Dust collection hooked to the SCMS's? I know someone else who complains about dust from Boral, wont use dust collection or quality tools.

The Makita SCMS I referenced were not well designed for dust collection.  I tried to use my CT 26, but more dust escapes than is collected.  The newer Makita SCMS has better dust collection than my Kapex.

I collected over 45 pounds if dust fabricating the window casing. Thats 45 pounds of dust the tools did not have to deal with.

My Kapex has had no issues when I've cut fiber cement, solid surface or Boral.

Best part of this discussion is others can make a decision based on 2 views of working with the product.

Yes they can

Tom
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3451
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 09:31 AM »
Thanks for the interesting discussion guys.  [big grin]  I'm serious...

My take-away with just 2 people weighing in is that if a tool wasn't designed specifically to be used with dust extraction, then using it on Boral may compromise its life span. I think that's a pretty straight forward assumption.

What's not so straight forward is the difference in the life span of the tooling. Again, maybe the use of dust extraction is what makes the difference?

@tjbnwi if carbide tooling is not compromised, I'm curious why you chose to use the CMT PCD blade as opposed to the standard Festool carbide blade?
Also, have you used the standard Festool blade on Boral and if so, how does the cut compare to the CMT blade?

I already have the 4 tooth CMT blade for concrete backer board so I'm going to seek out some Boral to experiment with.

@Naildrivingman , did you purchase the Boral locally and if so where?

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 288
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2017, 09:47 AM »
Boral is available from Scherer Bros Lumber. I'm guessing it's also available from Shaw as well.

In addition to being brittle, the edges are pretty delicate.  I would endorse the product for use where it cannot be touched by people, trees, etc.  to my knowledge, it does hold paint well and I believe it to be an effective rot resistant alternative to wood and wood composites.

Furthermore, I think it is far better than Miratec, I'm just not impressed with what it does to tools that do not have adequate dust collection and I cannot endorse it for use with costly Festool products regardless of FTs dust collection abilities.  What others choose to do is fine with me.  I simply wanted to weigh in with my experience.  If I were to use this product again, I would buy a set of tools dedicated to use with Boral and accept that they will fail prematurely.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
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Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 09:51 AM »
Thanks for the interesting discussion guys.  [big grin]  I'm serious...

My take-away with just 2 people weighing in is that if a tool wasn't designed specifically to be used with dust extraction, then using it on Boral may compromise its life span. I think that's a pretty straight forward assumption.

What's not so straight forward is the difference in the life span of the tooling. Again, maybe the use of dust extraction is what makes the difference?

@tjbnwi if carbide tooling is not compromised, I'm curious why you chose to use the CMT PCD blade as opposed to the standard Festool carbide blade?
Also, have you used the standard Festool blade on Boral and if so, how does the cut compare to the CMT blade?

I already have the 4 tooth CMT blade for concrete backer board so I'm going to seek out some Boral to experiment with.

@Naildrivingman , did you purchase the Boral locally and if so where?

@Cheese

I choose the CMT blade this time to see how it affected the amount and size of dust. First time I had to rips totaling over 1000 lineal feet. With only 4 teeth, I figured the dust would be coarser. Not sure I could tell the difference. The cut was no where near as smooth as when using Festool blades. I did have to sand any show edges. This Boral sands extremely easily.

The Festool blade I normally use on Boral are the solid surface blades (496309, 496382, 495386). I have multiples of each of these blades in inventory. The tooth geometry may account for the blades holding up better.

I did have to make and additional 128 feet of rip when I was on site. Used the standard blade in the 55, ripped wood afterwards, noticed no difference in the blades performance.

Make sure you break all the edges, square edges damage easily.

I don't recall if Naildrivingman mentioned dust extraction when he is working with Boral. For me it is a must.

Tom

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3451
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 09:51 AM »
Boral is available from Scherer Bros Lumber. I'm guessing it's also available from Shaw as well.

Thanks...Scherer Bros works for me...just about 20 minutes away.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 10:05 AM »
Another thing you'll notice when tooling Boral, there is much less motor load on the tools. Pretty much no load at all.

Tom

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3451
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2017, 10:28 AM »
Another thing you'll notice when tooling Boral, there is much less motor load on the tools. Pretty much no load at all.

Good to know Tom...also your choice of solid surface blades. It makes sense that the CMT cut wouldn't be as nice as a standard saw blade cut, thanks for confirming.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2017, 10:39 AM »
I've never used Boral before.  I did see this video not all that long ago.  This guy doesn't seem real impressed.  I use PVC, I'll probably stick with that.


Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline JSlovic

  • Posts: 91
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2017, 11:22 AM »
I recently built a home in the SC low country. The exterior is pretty much all various synthetic materials: hardie plank, Azek etc.
We successfully used Boral for flat board and batten and some flat trim areas, the builder and architect were very happy with how it worked.  Irma just blew thru and we haven't seen any dents or crack from flying limbs.
When we quoted it the it was a significantly lower cost than PVC, however when the builder placed the order the distributor/Boral HQ didn't honor their quote and raised the price (~ $3500) Even so it was less than PVC. 


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2017, 11:45 AM »
I've never used Boral before.  I did see this video not all that long ago.  This guy doesn't seem real impressed.  I use PVC, I'll probably stick with that.


Three things I don't like about PVC trim;

1) Expansion and contrition with temp change. I've seen it split at the fasteners which have to be spaced much closer than the Boral.

2) I find it much harder to control the dust/shards. It clings to everything, even after spraying tools and self with Static Guard.

3) It holds paint nowhere near as well as Boral and cannot be painted a dark color. Dark colors have no affect on Boral.

The windows I did are in Highlands Ranch CO. They have a lot of hail storms, we'll see how it holds up after a few. I have a feeling if the hail damages the Boral, the vinyl windows will be damaged also. I have a friend who lives near me who had their fiber cement siding destroyed by a hail storm last year.

Tom

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2017, 04:19 PM »
Watched the video that Brice posted. Those holes in the surface are in the back of the plank. Her didn't show a clear image of the face of the plank. Does that side have all those holes too?

Does the Colorado climate make PVC dust worse than other locals?

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 288
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2017, 07:36 PM »
Watched the video that Brice posted. Those holes in the surface are in the back of the plank. Her didn't show a clear image of the face of the plank. Does that side have all those holes too?

Does the Colorado climate make PVC dust worse than other locals?

This particular product can be exposed on either side.  I don't believe this profile is offered in wood grain at all. The 4/4, 5/4, 6/4 and lap siding are offered as a reversible product (smooth one side/wood grain the other).  I forgot to mention that one of the whole house siding project I did was with a ship lap profile and man were the mill marks obvious!  Also, the architect had called out GRK trim screws for fastening. When the painter prepped the heads, ALL the filler flashed because even on the "smooth" side there is still a slight grain or texture.

Bottom line is this...the benefits of the product do not exceed the drawbacks in my opinion and based on my experience.  I think the narrator of the video that @Brice Burrell posted is on to why this material has gained popularity.  The suppliers are pushing it really hard.  The particular supplier I deal with sells more of this product than anything else combined. 
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
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Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2017, 08:04 PM »
Watched the video that Brice posted. Those holes in the surface are in the back of the plank. Her didn't show a clear image of the face of the plank. Does that side have all those holes too?

Does the Colorado climate make PVC dust worse than other locals?

I cant answer the CO climate question. I've never installed PVC trim there (I don't live in CO.).

I use the 1x, 5/4 and 2x. Holes were more prominent on the smooth side. There is a wood grain side.

I'ver never had a problem fastener flashing, I prime material prior to paint. The pictures I posted have fasteners holding the trim on, filled sanded and primed. Same process I'd have used on any other trim, interior or exterior. Can't blame a product for poor craftsmanship.

Tom
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 08:07 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 288
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2017, 09:37 PM »
I use the 1x, 5/4 and 2x. Holes were more prominent on the smooth side. There is a wood grain side.

I'ver never had a problem fastener flashing, I prime material prior to paint. The pictures I posted have fasteners holding the trim on, filled sanded and primed. Same process I'd have used on any other trim, interior or exterior. Can't blame a product for poor craftsmanship.

Tom


Just exactly who's craftsmanship are you calling into question?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 09:41 PM by Naildrivingman »
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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2017, 09:44 PM »
I use the 1x, 5/4 and 2x. Holes were more prominent on the smooth side. There is a wood grain side.

I'ver never had a problem fastener flashing, I prime material prior to paint. The pictures I posted have fasteners holding the trim on, filled sanded and primed. Same process I'd have used on any other trim, interior or exterior. Can't blame a product for poor craftsmanship.

Tom

Just exactly who's craftsmanship are you calling in to question?
[/quote]

Your statement answers the question you ask (copied and pasted from your post);

 "When the painter prepped the heads, ALL the filler flashed because even on the "smooth" side there is still a slight grain or texture."

I view this the same way I view a painter saying drywall patches will always show because of surface changes. No reason with proper prep the screw areas in the trim or a drywall patch should ever be visible.

From your post, you installed as spec'd.

Tom

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 288
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2017, 10:32 PM »
There are situations in surface prep that will allow substrate to telegraph through finish treatments.  This is why a Level 5 drywall finish is generally recommended in certain situations that have direct lighting and/or dark colors.

In the situation I referenced, there is texture on the "smooth" side.  It is a very fine straight grain texture.  When filler is applied to fastener holes and troweled off, the filler gets into this fine grain and changes the surface appearance.  Even with a solvent scrub, the filler still Remains to some degree. If the fasteners hadn't been located in a regular pattern (16" OC), they probably wouldn't have been as noticeable, but since they were regular and the finish paint was a slate gray, the prepped areas showed through.  The only way to fix this was to go over each prepped head with a wire brush and lightly scuff the prep mark.  This process essentially recreated the light texture that is on the "smooth" side.

If this product is applied with face fasteners on the smooth side, the fastener prep areas will telegraph through if simply filled, troweled and wiped.  There is no way to avoid this.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 11:00 PM »
There are situations in surface prep that will allow substrate to telegraph through finish treatments.  This is why a Level 5 drywall finish is generally recommended in certain situations that have direct lighting and/or dark colors.

In the situation I referenced, there is texture on the "smooth" side.  It is a very fine straight grain texture.  When filler is applied to fastener holes and troweled off, the filler gets into this fine grain and changes the surface appearance.  Even with a solvent scrub, the filler still Remains to some degree. If the fasteners hadn't been located in a regular pattern (16" OC), they probably wouldn't have been as noticeable, but since they were regular and the finish paint was a slate gray, the prepped areas showed through.  The only way to fix this was to go over each prepped head with a wire brush and lightly scuff the prep mark.  This process essentially recreated the light texture that is on the "smooth" side.

If this product is applied with face fasteners on the smooth side, the fastener prep areas will telegraph through if simply filled, troweled and wiped.  There is no way to avoid this.

I don't agree with any of your post.

Any halfway decent painter would know if you sand an area of a surface you have to make that match with the area around it. I know exactly what the surface textures are on Boral, either side. The painter had a choice to sand the entire piece or prep the sanded area to match the adjacent texture. A simple coat of primer brushed on with a polyester brush to the sanded area most likely would have solved the flashing issue.

I'm not talking about L5 finishes (I can achieve compound applied or sprayed L5), I'm talking about matching an existing surface texture when a repair/patch is made. No reason the patch/repair should ever be visible.

There is no surface that cannot be matched to make a repair disappear. Look at all the repairs on automobiles that cannot be seen under any light.

Would you accept nail holes flashing/visible on interior trim?

Tom
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 11:06 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 288
Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2017, 09:17 PM »
I've realized that I cannot adequately describe my dissatisfied experience with this product.  So, I'm not going to respond to any more posts in this particular thread.

I think that it is important to note that we are both right about our own personal experiences because each of us had them and we are both wrong about the experiences of others because neither of us were there to see the other's results.

Any further attempt to persuade or dissuade is simply a waste of time and effort.

Dance with who brung ya...

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5147
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Re: Boral TruExterior
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2017, 10:07 PM »
I've realized that I cannot adequately describe my dissatisfied experience with this product.  So, I'm not going to respond to any more posts in this particular thread.

I think that it is important to note that we are both right about our own personal experiences because each of us had them and we are both wrong about the experiences of others because neither of us were there to see the other's results.

Any further attempt to persuade or dissuade is simply a waste of time and effort.

Thanks for weighing in with your experience with the product. As I said before, discussions like this are a good for getting info to other members of the forum incase they may someday have to deal with rotten items on their own properties. 

Understand that I never intended to try and persuade you.

Tom