Author Topic: How not to tile a shower... (Read 20156 times)

tjbnwi · « **Reply #90 on:** October 30, 2017, 09:13 PM »

Quote from: antss on October 30, 2017, 08:57 PM

Quote
Schluter All-Set is a specially formulated modified mortar. It's been on the market about 6 months.

Oh great.

Has Schluter changed their tact and moved away from unmodified ? Or have they just bowed to pressure from the large format manuf. , most of which require modified setting material for install?

Is the All-Set for use between the Kerdi layers too - or just for setting the tile onto the membranes and mats ?

They have not changed their stance on the modified/un-modified mortars.

All Set is the only modified they approve for their system. The primary difference between this and other modifies is they got it to cure in 12-16 hours between the two low vapor permeance surfaces.

I aware of two years of All Set's development. My guess is it took them at least four years.

When I use modified (I'm a big fan of Mapie) with Schluter products I plan at least 48 hours from set to grout. I prefer 72 hours.

As the name implies, All Set can be used to set everything.

Tom

Cheese · « **Reply #91 on:** October 31, 2017, 02:37 AM »

Quote from: Alan G on October 30, 2017, 08:30 PM

I'm sure it is since that's what is spec but I would not think a 1/2 foam panel would be rigid enough for tile on that wall. Did you ever have that concern?

That’s one of the issues that I had, that made me decide to continue to use cementious based product. If I’m hanging 10mm thick, 24” x 12” porcelain tiles off a 1/2” thick foam board...it may work for a while, it may even work forever, however we’ll not not know this until 20-30 years from now...but after 20 years of gravity working its wonders..I want to make sure the tile substrate doesn’t feel the need to bow or sag on my watch. If I were 10-15 years younger I may have rolled the dice and taken the chance, however at my age I just don’t feel the need to gamble on future results. Especially as I will be the person that will have to rectify the issue.

This issue rather reminds me of the problems with the exterior stucco problems that were rampant during the 90’s to early 2000’s. The industry had literally thousands of testimonials that their application methods were sound, yet the devastation was consistent and on-going. If I remember correctly, a class action suit was eventually brought forth and honored. I just don’t want to be on the end of a potentially stinky situation...I just want to update the bathroom and go forward.

The statement “an ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure” still holds true.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #92 on:** November 09, 2017, 09:29 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on October 31, 2017, 02:37 AM

Quote from: Alan G on October 30, 2017, 08:30 PM
I'm sure it is since that's what is spec but I would not think a 1/2 foam panel would be rigid enough for tile on that wall. Did you ever have that concern?

That’s one of the issues that I had, that made me decide to continue to use cementious based product. If I’m hanging 10mm thick, 24” x 12” porcelain tiles off a 1/2” thick foam board...it may work for a while, it may even work forever, however we’ll not not know this until 20-30 years from now...but after 20 years of gravity working its wonders..I want to make sure the tile substrate doesn’t feel the need to bow or sag on my watch. If I were 10-15 years younger I may have rolled the dice and taken the chance, however at my age I just don’t feel the need to gamble on future results. Especially as I will be the person that will have to rectify the issue.

This issue rather reminds me of the problems with the exterior stucco problems that were rampant during the 90’s to early 2000’s. The industry had literally thousands of testimonials that their application methods were sound, yet the devastation was consistent and on-going. If I remember correctly, a class action suit was eventually brought forth and honored. I just don’t want to be on the end of a potentially stinky situation...I just want to update the bathroom and go forward.

The statement “an ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure” still holds true.

The exterior stucco (Dryvit) issues were primarily install issues. Properly installed the Dryvit system works very well.

Tom

tjbnwi · « **Reply #93 on:** November 09, 2017, 09:31 PM »

Tile has arrived. Install has commenced. Templates for the granite company have been made.

Tom

Alan G · « **Reply #94 on:** November 10, 2017, 05:19 PM »

@tjbnwi I tried to look at the pics but could not zoom in enough to see....How did you do the ledges in the niche? Kerdi board again with some framing for support?

Cheese · « **Reply #95 on:** November 10, 2017, 05:30 PM »

Hey Tom,
Are those 36” tiles and what leveling system are you using?

tjbnwi · « **Reply #96 on:** November 10, 2017, 07:40 PM »

Quote from: Alan G on November 10, 2017, 05:19 PM

@tjbnwi I tried to look at the pics but could not zoom in enough to see....How did you do the ledges in the niche? Kerdi board again with some framing for support?

@Alan G

Hopefully these two will expand. I had my export setting at medium instead of large.

The niches are in a plumbing wall, it is a double 2x4 deep wall (7.5" without faces). A vent runs through the channel created by the lower of the dividers.

I used Kerdi Fix to adhere Kerdi backers to the edges of the studs (3.5" back from the face of the show wall). Kerdi board was then glued to the backers at full stud bay width and taller than what was needed for the niche height Strips of Kerdi board were glued to the edges of the studs, Kerdi board supports were glued on to the stud Kerdi board and back Kerdi board, tops and bottoms cut to fit, Kerdi Fixed to the supports, face sheet supports front edge.

There is a slight drainage pitch on the bottom pieces.

The white goo in the pictures is Kerdi Fix, do not get it where you don't want it, it does not come off without a lot of work and chemicals...

If this was not a plumbing wall, I cut the back and glue it right to the back side of the drywall on the opposite side of the work being done.

I built the boxes faster than I typed this.....

I finished the tile in the niche today, there are 48 tile pieces in it...not counting the glass mosaic that covers the channel faces...

Tom

tjbnwi · « **Reply #97 on:** November 10, 2017, 07:43 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on November 10, 2017, 05:30 PM

Hey Tom,
Are those 36” tiles and what leveling system are you using?

12x24.

RLS.

http://www.contractorsdirect.com/Raimondi-RLS-System-Starter-Kit

Tom

duburban · « **Reply #98 on:** November 10, 2017, 11:20 PM »

I've gotta say that the Hardi / hydro ban system still looks a lot more simple. There's something about sealant that I've been taught not to trust for a lifetime, I guess the same logic could be used to question the lifespan of hydroban.

I am intrigued by the pre-sloped pans though!

tjbnwi · « **Reply #99 on:** November 17, 2017, 06:32 PM »

A few tile left to set after the granite goes in on Monday.

Tom

Sparktrician · « **Reply #100 on:** November 17, 2017, 07:41 PM »

That's spectacular, Tom. Can't wait to see the final photos. Great job!!!

Alan G · « **Reply #101 on:** November 17, 2017, 08:46 PM »

Looks great! Really like the niches!

Does the bench have conventional framing under the kerdi board or did you just used a thicker board?

Within the next year I will be doing some reno on our house. I have never used the kerdi system. Looking forward to giving it a try. I especially like the presloped pans. Doing a dry pack mortar bed with the proper slope and liners was keeping me up at night!

tjbnwi · « **Reply #102 on:** November 17, 2017, 09:04 PM »

Quote from: Alan G on November 17, 2017, 08:46 PM

Looks great! Really like the niches!

Does the bench have conventional framing under the kerdi board or did you just used a thicker board?

Within the next year I will be doing some reno on our house. I have never used the kerdi system. Looking forward to giving it a try. I especially like the presloped pans. Doing a dry pack mortar bed with the proper slope and liners was keeping me up at night!

The bench is 2" Kerdi board, made up of a front panel which is 1/4" shorter than the rear panel, capped with a 3rd 2" panel.

The piece of granite is 11-3/4" deep.

The stem wall I could have built out of Kerdi board also (2", 2" 1.5"). Not sure why I didn't.

Make sure the floor is level for the base. Use a 1/4" square notch trowel for the mortar bed to set it in.

Do you access to the drain?

Tom

Alan G · « **Reply #103 on:** November 17, 2017, 09:10 PM »

Okay great. Thanks for the info.

Yes. I will have access to the drain. How is the install and fitup of the kerdi drain?

tjbnwi · « **Reply #104 on:** November 17, 2017, 09:41 PM »

Quote from: Alan G on November 17, 2017, 09:10 PM

Okay great. Thanks for the info.

Yes. I will have access to the drain. How is the install and fitup of the kerdi drain?

With access to the plumbing it's easy.

On this one I did not have access to the plumbing.

First photo are the drain body parts. It comes with the seals for the mixing valve and corners.

After I removed the old drain I dry fit the new body. The stub was to short.

Using a socket saver, I removed the pipe all the way into the trap hub.

Drain body dry fit to new pipe.

Body mortared in place.

Pan covered with Kerdi. Do not kneel on the foam pan without covering it with cardboard. Use the box, I double layer. I also cut the Kerdi 4" larger all directions, fold up the sides 2", saves on banding and build up.

When you get around to yours, post here, there are a lot of little tips that will help you through the install.

Tom

Cheese · « **Reply #105 on:** November 17, 2017, 09:51 PM »

Hey Tom, I noticed the niches do not incorporate Schluter corners and neither does the shower. Was this based on cost or based upon preference?

tjbnwi · « **Reply #106 on:** November 17, 2017, 10:47 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on November 17, 2017, 09:51 PM

Hey Tom, I noticed the niches do not incorporate Schluter corners and neither does the shower. Was this based on cost or based upon preference?

If you look at the last picture in the previous post, expand on the corner, you'll see the pre-formed corners. No band because I hem the Kerdi 2" with a j-roller.

The niches I chose to go with Kerdi Fix. Schluter specs it to seal Kerdi board assemblies. Honestly my preference are the pre-formed niches, getting them to work with vent pipe would have been more work.

https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/Waterproofing/Schluter®-KERDI-FIX/p/KERDI_FIX

I looked at the last picture again, you may be asking about the inside corners on the curb. Below is a picture showing the inside corners installed.

Tom

tjbnwi · « **Reply #107 on:** November 17, 2017, 10:54 PM »

Something others may run into and how I solve it.

The face of the niches were over 12" edge to edge. I bonded the glass to Kerdi, let it set, cut and installed.

Tom

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #108 on:** November 18, 2017, 12:03 AM »

Using the pre-sloped pan, what is the largest tile it will support?
May be showing my ignorance again but it seems to smaller tile should be used?

tjbnwi · « **Reply #109 on:** November 18, 2017, 12:34 AM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on November 18, 2017, 12:03 AM

Using the pre-sloped pan, what is the largest tile it will support?
May be showing my ignorance again but it seems to smaller tile should be used?

If you don't want to do a lot of cutting and fitting, 2" x2" is about the limit to get the tile to follow the pitches well.

The pictured base is pre-sloped with 8x8's. Everything was laid out and cut to get the water to the drain.

Tom

tjbnwi · « **Reply #110 on:** November 18, 2017, 12:38 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on November 18, 2017, 12:34 AM

Quote from: Michael Kellough on November 18, 2017, 12:03 AM
Using the pre-sloped pan, what is the largest tile it will support?
May be showing my ignorance again but it seems to smaller tile should be used?

If you don't want to do a lot of cutting and fitting, 2" x2" is about the limit to get the tile to follow the pitches well.

The pictured base is pre-sloped with 8x8's. Everything was laid out and cut to get the water to the drain.

Tom

If you want to do large format tile a single slope with a lineal drain is the answer.

Tom

Alan G · « **Reply #111 on:** November 18, 2017, 09:27 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on November 17, 2017, 09:41 PM

When you get around to yours, post here, there are a lot of little tips that will help you through the install.

Tom

I really appreciate that. Thank You!

Cheese · « **Reply #112 on:** November 18, 2017, 11:39 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on November 17, 2017, 10:47 PM

Quote from: Cheese on November 17, 2017, 09:51 PM
Hey Tom, I noticed the niches do not incorporate Schluter corners and neither does the shower. Was this based on cost or based upon preference?

Actually Tom I was referring to the Schluter decorative edging. I'm at the point where I can't decide if I should run it around the floor and in the corners of the shower or not. Each 8ft strip is about $30-$35, but each actual corner piece that connects the strips is $25-$35. The cost starts adding up in a hurry.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #113 on:** November 18, 2017, 12:28 PM »

I've never done one where the customer wanted the trim pieces. I have used the in specific locations. I'd love to use them, I hate caulking the corners.

Niches with Jolly trim.

Tom

BJM9818 · « **Reply #114 on:** November 18, 2017, 11:29 PM »

Wedi makes a similar caulk to Kerri fix. It’s about 1/2 the price. Only issue is it’s grey.

I just did a small 1/2 bath with All set. Not a big fan vs Ardex but it’s supposed to work on all aspects of a tile job.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #115 on:** November 18, 2017, 11:36 PM »

Quote from: BJM9818 on November 18, 2017, 11:29 PM

Wedi makes a similar caulk to Kerri fix. It’s about 1/2 the price. Only issue is it’s grey.

I just did a small 1/2 bath with All set. Not a big fan vs Ardex but it’s supposed to work on all aspects of a tile job.

I've used the Wedi sealant, it's about $6.00 less per cartridge than Kerdi Fix. Problem is I'd have to go to 2 different suppliers. Most jobs I use 2 tubes or less.

I found the All Set did not hold on the trowel as well as the Mapie I normally use. Other than that it worked well.

I've heard good things about Ardex, unfortunately no suppler local to me.

Tom

Alan G · « **Reply #116 on:** November 20, 2017, 07:41 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on November 17, 2017, 10:54 PM

Something others may run into and how I solve it.

The face of the niches were over 12" edge to edge. I bonded the glass to Kerdi, let it set, cut and installed.

Tom

Is that so it was a rigid piece and easier to install in a tight space?

tjbnwi · « **Reply #117 on:** November 20, 2017, 08:20 AM »

Quote from: Alan G on November 20, 2017, 07:41 AM

Quote from: tjbnwi on November 17, 2017, 10:54 PM
Something others may run into and how I solve it.

The face of the niches were over 12" edge to edge. I bonded the glass to Kerdi, let it set, cut and installed.

Tom

Is that so it was a rigid piece and easier to install in a tight space?

Makes the pieces longer, easier to cut than small pieces.

Tom

Alan G · « **Reply #118 on:** November 20, 2017, 08:36 AM »

Got it. Great idea!

Jungle8888 · « **Reply #119 on:** February 15, 2018, 04:29 PM »

Very nice Tom, I'm redoing my master bathroom, everything with Schluter and 24x24 tiles, except for the bath floor, which I think is 2x2

Cheers,
Paul