Author Topic: Mahogany porch  (Read 4125 times)

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Offline restorer1890

  • Posts: 6
Mahogany porch
« on: July 01, 2016, 08:15 AM »
going to be doing a tongue and groove mahogany porch.  Straight out from the house 10' and runs the full front approx 50'.  My question is how to start the run, should I start from the middle and groove the other side of the 1st board and work out to each side or should I start from one end?  I'm using a hardwood flooring nailer and stainless cleats.  Starting from one end I'm worried about the boards getting skewed when I reach the other end.  Starting from the middle is there going to be an issue with expansion since I'm changing sides that I'm nailing to?

Thanks.

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Offline Tayler_mann

  • Posts: 413
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2016, 08:57 AM »
I have a question, why do you use you he and groove? I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong but I am just curious. I am doing a tiger wood deck and front porch as well and my two options are 5/4 with one rough side or to get them tounge and groove. For a deck isn't the tounge and groove just a water trap?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3032
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2016, 11:10 AM »
In my neighborhood of mostly 80 to 120 year old houses there a lot of front porches floored in T&G vertical grain Doug Fir.
It's very good wood though not as decay resistant as Mahogany.

T&G seems like a system designed to fail when exposed to weather.
I don't know how often the floor boards on these porches get replaced but all of them older than 10 years,
seen from the sidewalk, show clear signs of deterioration.

I replaced my porch floor with the same system 30 years ago and struggled to keep it sealed well enough to stave off water seepage and rot. It's a loosing proposition.

About ten years ago I tried a different approach.
Realizing that the water entered the T&G joint from above because paint is not flexible enough to span the gap that opens when the boards shrink in the dry months, I decided to route a V groove along each joint and apply caulk before repainting.
Actually I primed the freshly routed wood before caulking. It's holding up very well.

Because my boards were already starting to decay I had to route a groove about 3/8" wide to get to good wood.
If I were starting over and had to use the same T&G DF I'd go ahead and mill a 1/8" chamfer on the top edges of each board then prime all six sides and install and caulk those grooves before top coating.

Since the OP is using mahogany I don't suppose he would not want to use caulk.
In that case I'd go with square sawn boards spaced an 1/8" apart so the rain can drain through quickly.


To the OP's question, depends on weather the ends of porch are contained or open.
If contained I'd start at one end (whichever is most square or whichever is visible) and work across so that only the last boards has to be re-ripped to fit the odd remaining space.
If that space is less than a 1/3rd of a board (check it out a few feet before you get there) I'd take a 1/4" or so off the last several boards and re-groove so the last one is still a good size.

If both ends are open so it doesn't matter if the last boards on either end have uneven overhang then I'd start in the middle and work out to the ends. You should be able to calculate the best starting point so you don't end up having to customize each final board.

Offline restorer1890

  • Posts: 6
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2016, 11:20 AM »
I'm going with the T&G to replicate the look, the house is around 100 years old.  I figure the original deck lasted that long so I don't see t&g as a negative, if it only lasts half as long it is still a home run. 

Going to stain this too, was thinking of using Sikkens Cetol Marine or Cetol Dek, any of you guys have experience with those finishes?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3032
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2016, 11:32 AM »
Was the original mahogany?

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 561
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2016, 12:07 PM »
I know this doesn't answer your question but if rain can hit it I would strongly suggest not tongue and grooving and just do a very small space between each board. 

It really just makes sense, a tongue and groove deck can't drain water off it and will rot.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3731
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2016, 01:33 PM »
I'd also not recommend T&G flooring. I owned an old victorian with a covered outside porch. I redid the T&G floor in Doug fir. Even though it was covered, it still rotted on the sides that were open to the elements after 15-17 years. The only place that remained good was the middle of the floor that was not exposed as much.

The only Sikkens products I'm familiar with are for vertical installations only. For horizontal applications the Sikkens needs to include a fungicide otherwise it turns black.

Online SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 8073
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2016, 02:06 PM »
    I wouldn't use T & G on a flat deck but on a true porch with a roof and a sloped floor it should be fine as long as it is done properly. However weather conditions and exposure will be a factor. I have always thought that porches with open spaced boards just look wrong. Just my opinion.

   I did a 50' - 60' long , 8' deep porch with one inside and one outside corner. When I ordered the flooring (5/4 fir) I made sure to order enough so that I could do all the 8' boards in one piece. I just like the look better than having butt joints in the middle. Might promote better water run off too.

    Bottom side , T & G edges, ends (both)  all got a coat of Cuprinol. Not sure if it is not the same product it was 20 yrs. ago when I did the porch , it was sort of a waxey liquid. Top side oil primer and paint. 

    I added additional blocking / joists because I wanted more nailing points than the original had. I used a flooring nailer and cleats plus construction adhesive (I think the adhesive could have been questionable but it has worked very well). I started at one end. I think I lose fit about 3' of flooring in order to get a wider reference for perpendicularity to the wall. Made reference marks then removed and started fastening. Important to keep checking  every few boards. That way if you find yourself going astray you will catch it soon enough to make a very minor correction and stay on track. Also check visually from out in front of the porch not just with measuring tools. The visual will end up being more important than the actual perpendicularity.

   I don't think expansion and contraction would be effected by starting in the middle. Not sure it will really make a difference for the install though.

    I admit that it has some pretty good tree cover in addition to the roof. But it has endured 20 years of north eastern USA weather. Gets plenty of snow on it. And rain certainly blows in. Along with some very dry winters and very humid summers. No problems.

Seth
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 02:09 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1973
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2016, 01:32 PM »
I'd also not recommend T&G flooring. I owned an old victorian with a covered outside porch. I redid the T&G floor in Doug fir. Even though it was covered, it still rotted on the sides that were open to the elements after 15-17 years. The only place that remained good was the middle of the floor that was not exposed as much.

The only Sikkens products I'm familiar with are for vertical installations only. For horizontal applications the Sikkens needs to include a fungicide otherwise it turns black.
  I haven't heard that about Sikkens. I've Cetol for a few years now in both vertical and horizontal applications, and the only thing I've run into is what I kind of expected with other Cetol users reporting.... Peeling finish where Sun exp. was the worst on an area after a few years. The peeling was easy to touch up with light scraping and sanding, and reapplying Cetol to that area.
 Maybe I just got lucky?  [blink]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline mkasdin

  • Posts: 118
Re: Mahogany porch
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 09:50 PM »
I wouldn't use T&G outside on a horizontal surface. You have temp and humidity fluctuations. Honestly I would save the mahogany for and indoor project. Not sure where you live? Personally I would use a cheaper wood dog fir?. As the carpet cleaning guy said to me today, who looks down at there feet anyway? I would  use the Mahogany you for outdoor furniture or the railing feature or cabinets (doors) in the bathrooms?