Author Topic: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?  (Read 7945 times)

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Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« on: March 17, 2018, 11:36 PM »
I’m gluing 3/4” X 3/4” Walnut to 3/4” Maple plywood shelves and am wondering the best way to make the Walnut flush to the plywood. It’s proud of the plywood by no more than 1mm and in some spots closer to flush already.

I have the Bench Dog router table extension on my table saw with Incra fence system. I considered mounting some MDF to it in order to create a higher fence to run the shelf against with a gap on the bottom. The shelves are 28” deep so I wasn’t sure how well this would work while standing up.

I have the OF1400 router which wasn’t recommended with the adapter to go on its side; however, I’ve seen some jigs people mount to the bottom which allows the bit to go over the edge banding while the jig still sits on the plywood to flush cut. I’m not certain how well this works and if cutting perpendicular is a decent cut or not.

Or, I could buy my first hand plane and see how difficult it would be to make a nice finish.  If this is best, I’d buy a Lie Nielsen but need to know which model would work best or provide best versatility overall and work well for this since I probably won’t buy another for another until Christmas.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Kevin C.

  • Posts: 100
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 12:37 AM »
 Use your router and build your own base for it.  Use a nice wide straight cutting bit, about an inch wide. I will add a photo of my router jig tomorrow. Plenty wide and stable, but gets the corners as well. Costs nothing if you have scrap wood.
 Another option if you do a whole lot of hardwood edges on sheetgoods like plywood or mdf is a lipping planer. They are pretty pricey, but absolutely worth the investment.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 143
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2018, 01:50 AM »
I don't recommend doing it with a hand plane because tearout may occur and you won't have many options if it does. 

It can be done with a flush trim bit and a steady hand, or using various shop-made or purchased router attachments.

Fastcap sells a thing called a Little Lipper that looks useful.  I've never tried it because I have some other equipment for doing the job.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3332
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2018, 09:31 AM »
Using thick edge banding is making things difficult.

First, when gluing it on you'll need to straighten the plywood with cauls so the edge band doesn't lock in the slight bend that plywood usually has.

Second, when trimming it flush the more there is the more difficult it is to make flush.

For both reasons I keep the the edge banding to 1/8" or less.
At 1/8" you can still get a clearly visible chamfer (my favorite).
At 1/8" you can trim with a hand plane holding it at a big skew and a slight bevel so you are less likely to remove the ply veneer.
At 1/8" it can be easily routed away hinge routing bit (they're designed to bat smooth bottom cuts but they're usually only 1/2" in diameter).

I put a trim router on a strong sub-base so that the router is more than 50% cantilevered and then set the hinge routing bit to be flush (or slightly higher) with the ply surface. With the router up and over compared to the base you can on the surface of the ply and cut the edge band down to safe sanding range.

Or, you can buy Festool's edge router.

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1337
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2018, 10:18 AM »
Whiteside's up down spiral router bits would be perfect for this application.

277176-0

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 12:15 PM »
I see they have refurbished MFK700 available.  Does refurbished come with all the original equipment?  Is there a warranty?  Would it go deep enough to trim 3/4” material when used perpendicular (I thought it had a small depth to it)?  Does it require a special attachment for trimming edge banding on its side?

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 01:02 PM »
Forget about the refurbished 700, it doesn’t come with the 1/4 collet, dust hood, cord, vertical and horizontal base, or feeler bearing set.

I’m trying to understand whether a jig underneath my OF1400 with the right bit, not sure what’s best, would be every bit as good as the MFK700 with the spiral bit??  Perhaps I buy a smoothing hand planer or something instead and give it a light shave if the bit doesn’t finish as well.  Or is a new 700 worth it?

Offline Aclaw

  • Posts: 72
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2018, 01:12 PM »
The Little Lipper from fastcap on my 1400 has done me pretty well.

Offline android

  • Posts: 35
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2018, 02:18 PM »
This is the best way that I have seen to do this...

Flush cutting edge banding is about 7 minutes in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=AddH8IgL7wY

I built a fence with a rabbet like this and tried it and it works pretty well. I probably need to build a more precise fence to get perfect trims, mine was bit off.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 02:21 PM by android »

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 143
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2018, 04:31 PM »
The MFK700 is cool because you can leave it set up.  It's not very useful as a general purpose router however. I had one and sold it after I acquired a Holz-Her UF362, a heavy machine.  I bought the gadgets for the Festool OF1010 as a back up. 

The MFK is basically idiot-proof when set up though, a great production tool for a busy shop with employees who aren't meticulous.  I can't say that's true of using a trim router with a flush cut bit. 

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 09:28 AM »
What would provide a better finish, MFK700 with spiral bit run horizontally or Lie Nielsen #4 Smoothing Plane?

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 01:28 PM »
What would provide a better finish, MFK700 with spiral bit run horizontally or Lie Nielsen #4 Smoothing Plane?

No contest. A machined surface is no match for one that is hand planed.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 379
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 01:48 PM »
This is the best way that I have seen to do this...

Flush cutting edge banding is about 7 minutes in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=AddH8IgL7wY

I built a fence with a rabbet like this and tried it and it works pretty well. I probably need to build a more precise fence to get perfect trims, mine was bit off.

@android

That fence jig is on my todo list. What did you used as finish, wax?
Mario

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 143
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 02:53 PM »
You're going to get tearout sooner or later if you insist on hand planes for this job.  If the work is paint grade, no big deal - just use putty.   It can be done, yes, but it's slower and riskier than machining the edge flush.   The risk can be mitigated somewhat by using a high angle bevel on the iron to bring the working angle to 50 degrees or more.  This results in more of a scraping cut.

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 03:48 PM »
My plan is to use the OF1400 to bring it as close as possible to being flush and then use the plane to carefully shave just a bit closer. In the future I may leave 1-2mm gap between the plywood and edge banding as a decorative look, still using a triangular edge joint, and so it’s easier to avoid tear out when trimming.

Are you thinking I shouldn’t use the hand plane at all and just get as close as possible with OF1400 or get an MFK700 and forget the plane?

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 04:26 PM »
FYI - I was thinking to plane it on a skew and carefully watch the blade and keep it as close as possible to the edge banding so it would barely be above the plywood.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 05:45 PM by Bugsysiegals »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1351
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 04:54 PM »
This is the best way that I have seen to do this...
Flush cutting edge banding is about 7 minutes in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=AddH8IgL7wY
I built a fence with a rabbet like this and tried it and it works pretty well. I probably need to build a more precise fence to get perfect trims, mine was bit off.
It only works if you have banding along one edge. Two adjacent edges and you piece cannot be placed flush to the fence.

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 05:00 PM »
I think the most forgiving approach to this is as Michael suggests:

...
I put a trim router on a strong sub-base so that the router is more than 50% cantilevered and then set the hinge routing bit to be flush (or slightly higher) with the ply surface. With the router up and over compared to the base you can on the surface of the ply and cut the edge band down to safe sanding range.
...

You can place a piece of paper between the router bit and the surface of your plywood to set the router's depth of cut. 
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 05:01 PM »
This is the best way that I have seen to do this...
Flush cutting edge banding is about 7 minutes in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=AddH8IgL7wY
I built a fence with a rabbet like this and tried it and it works pretty well. I probably need to build a more precise fence to get perfect trims, mine was bit off.
It only works if you have banding along one edge. Two adjacent edges and you piece cannot be placed flush to the fence.

Uhm, one [adjacent] edge at a time.

Do both ends first. Then, do the front and rear  edges.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 05:09 PM by Corwin »
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 143
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2018, 06:06 PM »
I just did some today.  My trimmer isn't set up perfect so it's leaving it a little proud.  Theres a bevel on the end of the cutters that I think can trim off the glue on the surface of the veneer and barely cut the veneer if it's set up right.  You're probably going to have to sand or scrape a little glue off to get a surface that will take a stain.  I seem to recall the MFK has a slight angle on the horizontal base that allows for cutting off the glue squeeze out on the veneer side of the joint.

You can get all obsessed with it or just route it to within .25mm or whatever and go after the rest with a cabinet scraper, razor blades, and/or an electric sander.  It doesn't take long.

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2018, 06:39 PM »
This is the best way that I have seen to do this...
Flush cutting edge banding is about 7 minutes in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=AddH8IgL7wY
I built a fence with a rabbet like this and tried it and it works pretty well. I probably need to build a more precise fence to get perfect trims, mine was bit off.
It only works if you have banding along one edge. Two adjacent edges and you piece cannot be placed flush to the fence.

Uhm, one [adjacent] edge at a time.

Do both ends first. Then, do the front and rear  edges.

I like this method but since I’ve already glued all 4 sides it won’t work. In the future, I may glue only 2 sides and then try this method.

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2018, 06:44 PM »
I was really thinking to go with the hand plane but seems I need to check more into the MFK 700 and see what kind of results it produces. If I went that way, I wonder how well of a finish it would produce in terms of putting an edge guide on it and a bit which is 1-2mm thick and routing a tiny groove where the edgebanding and plywood meet ...it would be a sort of decorative border and perhaps remove the glue at the same time making it hard to distinguish not being perfectly flush.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1866
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2018, 06:58 PM »
I've used my Lie Neilson #140 skew block planes with the edge guide after cutting close with a router.

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2562
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2018, 03:07 AM »
For tasks like this, here's the plane that's been on my wish list:

Lie-Lielsen Chisle Plane
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 379
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2018, 09:05 AM »
For tasks like this, here's the plane that's been on my wish list:

Lie-Lielsen Chisle Plane

Wow that's a nice hand tool  [smile]
Mario

Offline android

  • Posts: 35
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2018, 09:33 PM »
This is the best way that I have seen to do this...

Flush cutting edge banding is about 7 minutes in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=AddH8IgL7wY

I built a fence with a rabbet like this and tried it and it works pretty well. I probably need to build a more precise fence to get perfect trims, mine was bit off.

@android

That fence jig is on my todo list. What did you used as finish, wax?

So William has another video where he shows the build of the fence, so you should watch that if you haven't.
I put some clear poly on mine followed by some paste wax. That's pretty much what' I've been doing on all my jigs and fixtures.

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 86
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2018, 11:30 PM »
Since I already have edge banding on all 4 sides of my first shelf, the tall fence for router table or table saw methods wouldn’t work so I decided to build a jig for my OF1400. While it didn’t turn out terrible, and it’s mostly fine, I’m not completely sold that it’s how I’ll trim edge banding in the future.

I got a slightly damaged 2’ x 4’ sheet of MDF from HD for $5. I ripped a piece as wide as the router and cross cut it to about a foot long.  I traced the front of the router to the board and cut it off with a jigsaw for better appearance. I then removed the bottom plate of the router, traced the 2 bolt and center holes, and drilled/cut them out. Finally, I put a piece of painters tape on my jointer and ran the MDF through the jointer until the back lined up with the tape, shut the jointer off, lowered it for a deeper cut, and repeated a few times until I’d removed about 2mm from the front half of the jig.

277500-0277502-1277504-2

For the most part the jig works amazing and finished the edge banding very nicely; however, the edge banding has a few places were it’s not completely smooth and there’s a few small marks in the plywood veneer.  I’m not sure if it’s because the plywood is not perfectly straight or because the router has a tendency to tilt forward and I didn’t hold the back down hard enough. 

I can hand plane / sand most of the marks, and the systainers will cover most of the shelf anyways, but if I had to do this again, I’d try to mitigate these issues by making the jig a little longer so I didn’t have to work so hard to hold it down (the bit was only 1/2” wide, I couldn’t see well through the dust hood, and corners take some finagling so it took several minutes to complete). 

277506-3277508-4

That said, it would be much quicker and take far less muscle to take one or two passes down the table saw with a tall fence, which I can really appreciate, so I’ll try this method on next few shelves and post my progress so everybody can see the results.

Stay tuned ...
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 11:46 AM by Bugsysiegals »

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 183
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2018, 03:58 AM »
I was really thinking to go with the hand plane but seems I need to check more into the MFK 700 and see what kind of results it produces. If I went that way, I wonder how well of a finish it would produce in terms of putting an edge guide on it and a bit which is 1-2mm thick and routing a tiny groove where the edgebanding and plywood meet ...it would be a sort of decorative border and perhaps remove the glue at the same time making it hard to distinguish not being perfectly flush.

If you want to use a hand plane, then you have a choice of two, and either will produce excellent results.

To clarify, tear out occurs when you plane into reversing grain. A plane with a 60 degree cutting angle is unlikely to tear out. Your one choice here is a block plane, such as the LN 60 1/2, and add a 50 degree secondary micro bevel to the blade. That will create a 62 degree cutting angle. It will do the job.

The second plane is a Bailey style, such as a Stanley or LN #3 or #4. You could use the LN with a 55 degree frog - not my cup of tea. I would rather use one of these with a closed up chipbreaker. This is a technique that needs a little practice but, once down, you can plane ANY grain and never experience tear out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4582
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2018, 10:10 AM »
For tasks like this, here's the plane that's been on my wish list:

Lie-Lielsen Chisle Plane

Be Careful...I needed to trim about 150 Jatoba plugs in maple treads & Jatoba edging flush, so I decided to use the Lie Nielsen chisel plane. The Jatoba plugs were about .060"-.090" (1/16" - 3/32") proud of the surface. Using the paring/slicing method with the chisel plane, I still got a lot of tear out.  [sad]  If the plugs were only .015" (1/64") or less proud of the surface, then maybe the plane would have worked better. I noticed in the video the plugs that were being trimmed were almost flush with the surface already.

After butchering 2 or 3 plugs, I went back to using a veneer saw.   [crying]

Offline DIY WoodWerx

  • Posts: 97
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2018, 10:55 AM »
Forget about the refurbished 700, it doesn’t come with the 1/4 collet, dust hood, cord, vertical and horizontal base, or feeler bearing set.

I’m trying to understand whether a jig underneath my OF1400 with the right bit, not sure what’s best, would be every bit as good as the MFK700 with the spiral bit??  Perhaps I buy a smoothing hand planer or something instead and give it a light shave if the bit doesn’t finish as well.  Or is a new 700 worth it?


Look at Festool Part # 486052 and 486058.  These 2 parts essentially make your OF1400 a MFK router for flush trimming.  There are 1 or 2 youtube videos out there about these parts and the OF1400
Festool TS 55 REQ-F-PLUS
Festool OF 1400 EQ-F-PLUS
Festool CT MIDI HEPA
Festool Domino DF 500 Q-PLUS
Festool PRO 5 LTD (ETS 125 REQ)
Festool FS 1400/2 (x2)
Festool FS 1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail
Festool LR32 Router Hole Drilling Set

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3332
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2018, 11:52 AM »
Re. @Cheese   Paring face grain plugs.

Had to do a lot of this at one time. Found that marking the direction of the grain (looking at the side of the plug) allowed tear out free paring. Marking was a bit of a hassle so switched to propping the motherboard at an angle on the drill press table so the plugs had a guaranteed physical indication of grain direction.

On a subsequent project after I’d acquired an old AEG belt sander with frame none of the above mattered. Just set the depth of the belt to about .2mm above the surface and run over the plugs. Easy peasy as long as there was enough room for the machine.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 01:24 PM by Michael Kellough »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4582
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2018, 01:11 PM »
Hey @Michael Kellough thanks 🙏 for the input. Everyday there’s something new to learn.  [cool]

When I did this floor/stairs project, I cut all the plugs and installed all of them with the grain running in the same direction. What I didn’t anticipate was how was I going to trim them down and what tool I was going to use.  [sad]  Consequently, of the 6 plugs used on each tread, 2 on each side we’re only 1 1/2” from the apron and 3 we’re only 2” from the riser. Thus there was only 1 plug on each tread where I could approach it from 360 degrees.  [doh]

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3332
Re: Router or Hand Plane for Trimming 3/4” Edge Band?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2018, 01:25 PM »
@Cheese , modified previous post.