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Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
New to the forum
« on: October 25, 2014, 09:24 AM »
Been lurking for a month or so and i finally have questions lol.. Get ready ;)

My background is in all phases of residential and commercial construction. These days i only dabble in the projects i really want to do. Mostly higher end finish work, cabinets kitchen and bath remodels and few and far between tbh. For the most part woodworking has become more of a hobby. I am considering a two year furniture and cabinet making program centered on only hand tools.

Anyway i started building a proper workshop in my 1000sq ft basement. To be expected dust has been the biggest issue. Im a bit of a neat freak and perfectionist and its driving me mad! I cant do proper dust extraction with a commercial dust extractor as i am limited to 120 for the time being. I just dropped 60k into a new heating cooling system a chimney and a couple other have toos blah blah so an electrical upgrade will have to wait.

First on my list was getting a proper miter station built for my miter saw that would allow repeatable cuts and a shop vac hooked up to it for some sort of dust collection. I have a 10" Dewalt slider and was able to rig up a pretty good shroud that gets most but not all the dust. The next thing i did was built a basic cut table after the purchase of a TS75. I made the table out of 2x4 and a sheet of particle board. I just throw it on a couple saw horses and a i'm good to go. After that was a proper 4x8 hardboard topped assembly table on casters and height adjustable legs. Its like a tank and I'm really happy. I have plenty of other random workbench space thanks to the previous home owner also being a woodworker.

So my question is this my funds are beginning to  dwindle and i have a dust problem. I just finished a cabinet project that got a oil stain and conversion varnish finish. The sanding dust created prior to staining was enough to push me over the edge and say  i will never do anything like this again in my own home and reserve such projects to a proper workshop tucked away in a warehouse somewhere where dust is part of the deal. I have access to a proper spray booth and such anytime but nothing beats waking up and heading to the basement to work. After the sanding problem my stupid Dewalt miter saw and trim router and the biggest dust culprits. I have about 2k left i can spend and then I'm done with tools till at least till the spring as the funds are all gone.

These are my tool thoughts. I just got a midi from the recon sale last week so that should help. To date i have been hooking what festools i do have up to a rigid shop vac and doing lots of cleaning between cuts. To date i have a 1400 router a TS75 track saw with only the 72" rail,  a carvex and the accessory kit, a cxs for festools. Beyond that i purchased a Laguna 14x12 band saw as i like to work with rough lumber and needed something i could resaw with. I have brand new 10" Dewalt slider and make due with a rigid jobsite chop saw. I also have a full line of the Millwakee Fuel tools and they are great.

Sanders are high on my list and that tinny Midi just Aint gonna cut it as i will go outa my mind emptying it all the time. The whole chip collector thing does not appeal to me. Im thinking a RO 150 and the 150/3. If i could get away with just the RO for now i would be a happy man. I have a extensive background both finishing and restoring old finishes so using a sander properly should be no problem for me as i have made due with a dewalt orbital and palm sander all these years and done some very very nice and extremely high end work just fine with them. Although very very dusty they worked fine with a finishing hand sand before between important coats..

Beyond the sanders i am thinking of ditching the dewalt trim router for the MK700. I am also thinking of just biting the bullet and getting a CT48 with the boom arm cart and all. I hate clutter and work so much better when things are neat. I also need that 118" guide rail bad!

On the other hand that dewalt slider is next in line as far as dust culprits go and it will be some time before i have the cash to drop on a $1400 saw so im kinda thinking of ditching the CT 48 boom arm idea and instead going with a Kapex a RO 150 and the MFK700. Whatever way i go that will be it for a number of months if not the till this time next year so i had better get it right. After this next chunk of money is spent and i find myself self dusted out in my basement mid project there is gonna be nothing i can do but deal..

One more thought i could really use the router table a MFT/3 and both dominos. Really i could use them and would. It will actually impede a couple projects not to have them this winter. But the dust man i just cant take the dust!

Big introduction but what are peoples thoughts?
Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 730
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2014, 10:09 AM »
 [welcome]

I have a basement hobby workshop and dust collection was my biggest concern, that's the main reason I invested in Festool. I highly recommend getting the CT48 next, you should add the Kapex or sander with it to get the package discount. I have a CT26 and Midi, but I wish that I would have bought the CT48 instead. The boom arm is great as well. I have no problems with dust in my house. One of the first things that I purchased was a Powermatic air filtration unit that hangs from the floor joist, I hardly need to use it because the Festool dust extraction is phenominal! The longer rails are very nice to have. You should continue watching the recon sale for some great deals.

Good luck with everything,

Daniel
Daniel

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7639
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2014, 10:14 AM »
For what it's worth, the CT36 still rolls under the CMS-OF with the OF1400 installed - the CT48 won't.

The RO150 will cover your range of sanding, but you will get tired! The RO90 is brilliant too.

I don't know what $2K will get you in the US, but it wouldn't get you much in Oz!

Could you squeeze MFT/3, RO150 and a CTxx ?

... a Domino would mean probably swapping out the MFT/3

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 03:30 PM »
Good responses and the food for thought i hoped for.

The conundrum is what i want vrs wha i need. I have been buying to daye per the idea that as i take on projects i buy the next tool that gets in the way of me not being able to complete the task. Till just last week that meant no dust collection as i needed the tools more. I purchased festools knowing i would get the dust collection when i could.

Now i am at a cross roads  where the $$$$ is getting tight i still need not want a couple things and i cant decide what combo of tools to get. For the most part i have about $2600 i can spend.

It goes like this i cant do another project in my basement without a proper sander that will collect nearly all the dust. I don't want to buy 2-3 sanders right now but if i had to to avoid the dust and get my finishing work done properly than i would blow the budget on sanders and know im done buying sanders and move onto tue next void in my arsenal when i could.

As i mentioned prior beyond sanders i need both dominos. I need XL to build a teak door i already built a jam and threshold for out of 8/4 and 5/4 teak and the smaller one to build some plantation shutters and door fronts. Sure i could do good old mortise and tenon but i am neither that experienced nor do i have proper drill press for the work. Working in teak i am really not up for any screw ups and waste. For some reason though nothing excites me about the domino. Probably because i need both in all reality and i if buy both i am outa $$$$ and still need sanders at the very least.

My money goes quite a bit further at least it feels like it does if i buy a CT48 and RO 150 package for $1200 then the MFK700 for $550 the boom arm for $375 and either the workstation or the 150/3 sander to round it all out. Ghat combo seems like i get allot of new stuff to play with! :)

I think i can get by without the table for now and smaller items like the 118" guide rail i can buy in a pinch if i have to. What i wont be able to do is drop $1400-1600 on a Kapex or a CMT router table or a $1300 domino anytime soon after this next round of purchases..

The Kapex $1400, RO 150, $550 MFK700 $550 combo is kinda really really tempting. I suppose i could sell my 10" Dewalt for a $200 on Craigslist along with the Dewalt router and maybe get 150/3 also.

I have a big big hard on for the Kapex CT48 boom arm and workstation but being i have a dust collector and miter saw it seems awfully impractical of me to make either of those purchases as i have midi and i have miter saw...
Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline VW MICK

  • Posts: 843
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 04:08 PM »
 iceclimber  [welcome]

You could  make a boom arm .and I think there are loads of cheaper trimmers than the  MKF 700
Also I think there are some aftermarket adapters so you can use the 500 domino cutters with the 700
And the if you are used to a dewalt Sander I think you will achieve great results with a RO 150

So it's kapex or domino700
With CT48
And RO150

Offline Don T

  • Posts: 1697
  • Phoenix, Az
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 04:12 PM »
I would definitely go with the RO150 if the projects you have planned are larger projects.  If they are small projects I would consider the RO90 it is a sweet little sander.  Definitely get the Domino and the Domino Assortment systainer.  All of the cutters are included in the Domino Assortment.  The NFK700 is also a very nice little router and has great dust collection.  The 118" rail is great with the TS75 when breaking down sheet goods.  I would not buy the CT just because you already have one.  That will spend your $2600.00.  Thanks for letting us help you spend your money.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 04:17 PM by Don T »
RO150, C12, DF 500 Q, CT33, TS75, MFT3, Kapex 120, MFT3/Kapex, MFK 700, RO 90, ETS150/3, CT22, Centrotec Installers Kit, Parallel Guides & Ext, Carvex, OF1400, LR32 Set, MFS400 w/700 rails, KA UG Set, First Aid Kit, RTS 400 EQ, Vecturo OS400 Set, CT Wings, CT Drill Guide, Pro 5, CXS

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2014, 04:19 PM »
Haha

Thanks guys.

The problems us festool people have right  ;D

The boom arm is so desirable as i am already annoyed as stuff by my hose dragging on my work. I would love one of fabric covered hoses that i think we in the USA should be able to get with the 150/3 soon of not already.

I really a neat freak and i cant have the boom arm without the bigger unit. I could build one but i like to do things the right way the first time. Id rather take my time buy the right tool or tools and wait for the ones i cant have.

I edge band cabinets with maple and edge banding quite a bit so the MFK os desirable my little Dewalt throws soooooo much dust its crazy!

Reality is the Domino is a very useful tool. I am reluctant to do the big one with the adapter kit as i believe strongly in the right tool for the job hence "Festool". I think the Xl could become cumbersome on smaller work? I might be wrong if people have experience  withe the adapter kit by all means chime in as the Xl would be sweet as i could make some sweet doors. In all reality i have three that need to be made in the next year so it will get used!
Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline VW MICK

  • Posts: 843
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2014, 04:22 PM »
Ha ha

I think your mind is made up . You will buy them all lol

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2014, 04:55 PM »
Yes i will in time i am sure....

Its sad really as the $$$$$ adds up so quick and I'm not a big fan of materialism. Don't get me wrong i like stuff as much as the next guy i just try my best to not feed the monkey when at all possible. I try ams choose hobbies that don't surround stuff but doing. I should probably just go the hand tool route and be done. I want every tool festool makes but what really need is a shop i can do quality work in as dust free as possible and not a bunch of toys. The funny thing is i will proably end up the hand tool route after i buy every festool they make.

When i was younger i coulda given a stuff about dust and chemicals. I would go at it all day demoing warehouses, brownstones, stripping whole houses of lead paint spraying interior oil trim on 20k sq ft homes for weeks on end with only a paper mask if that. I cant count the number of homes i stripped bear not one ounce of paint left on it with the old 8" Makitta grinders when they still made them. That was long before the EPA got involved and got there hands in the cookie jar. I suppose its a good thing but it sucked when it happened. The reality is as i have aged i am no longer willing to punish my body the way i was when i was younger especially when there is no need and options such as a festool sanders that captures 90% percent of the dust can be had.

I think the Kapex is a Festool gateway drug lol...

Its the first Festool that ever got me to take notice. Well i noticed the sanders years ago when i was still a painting contractor but being i did not even wear a mask sanding and spraying i sure as heck was not spending $500 on a dam sander. Still though the thought of buying a Kapex is enough to keep a guy up at night if he decides he wants one lol.. My guess is its a great saw but far from what makes festool so great. I hope I'm wrong or that $1400 will hurt...

Anyway talking tools is good so keep it going if youall want?
Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7639
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2014, 09:20 PM »
Funny you say about not caring when it comes to dust in the past ... I was the same 20+ years ago ... same with chemical fumes to a degree too. Since I started investing in quality tools (and as I'm much older and more inclined to chat) I've heard many stories about lives shortened significantly in various woodworking careers. Mostly respiratory related too.

Festool users are mostly aware, but the majority of people don't realise what that fine dust in certain toxic species of timber can do to your lungs - not to mention particle boards, MDF, etc.

Sure, a table saw can cut off you're fingers if you're careless ... but a sander can kill you - just slowly [sad]

Back on you're real topic.

Deffo stick with the RO thinking for now with sanders ... the new ETS's will arrive in packages with you desired fabric covered hose at some point in the future and that'll be your ideal target (good reason to hold back).



Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 09:39 PM »
I made up my mind.

For now I'm gonna buy a Domino XL and a Kapex.

I need the domino for a number of projects this winter. A teak door and teak patio set.

The Kapex i gotta just get it over with so i can stop thinking about it.

After that chunk of change is spent ill start in on the door project as i have a piece of plywood screwed over my basement door at the moment and its getting cold! When it comes time to sand ill either buy the RO150 or RO90. If the funds allow ill get the CT 48 or 36 package. If they don't allow ill probably just get the RO 90 for now so i can sand dust free.

I think im gonna make a boom arm that mounts to the ceiling above my main work area as my shop is not really suited to a rolling CT. The plan is just to have one at each work station of which ill have three including my kiter station..

What do people think about using a Kapex for a while with a rigid shop vac?

Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline Festool USA

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
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  • Posts: 8283
    • Festool USA
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 09:45 PM »
Welcome to the forum.

Just a reminder that the Domino requires dust extraction.

Shane

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 10:11 PM »
Thank you..

I have a midi i just want it to use with my other hand tools. I hate moving stuff around changing hoses, flipping this switch then that switch tripping over cords and hoses..

As of now i have a 10" Dewalt set up to rigid shop vac one of the switch things that turns the vac on when you pull the tool trigger and a modded dust shroud. It dies ok to be honest. After a few hours in the shop it just takes a quick and minor touch up with the shop vac.

Anyway i am just trying to not buy two festool dust extractors right now as i have so much to buy..

To date i have the Carvex, 1400, TS75 and CSX. Just a shop vac and those tools helped the dust nightmare huge. The midi attached to them is even better.

Thanks for the welcome and heads up!
Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline amt

  • Posts: 361
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 11:22 PM »
I think the Xl could become cumbersome on smaller work? I might be wrong if people have experience  withe the adapter kit by all means chime in as the Xl would be sweet as i could make some sweet doors. In all reality i have three that need to be made in the next year so it will get used!

I have the XL and I use the adapter (shims and cutter adapter), and I've had no problems using it for small jobs.  I use 5 and 6mm dominos regularly with no issues.  I don't have the 500 to compare to, but some have noted that the 700 is more "stable" due to its weight.  I think the only downside on the 700 is that you might notice its weight as you move it around. 

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7639
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 04:32 AM »
I made up my mind.

For now I'm gonna buy a Domino XL and a Kapex.

I need the domino for a number of projects this winter. A teak door and teak patio set.

The Kapex i gotta just get it over with so i can stop thinking about it.

After that chunk of change is spent ill start in on the door project as i have a piece of plywood screwed over my basement door at the moment and its getting cold! When it comes time to sand ill either buy the RO150 or RO90. If the funds allow ill get the CT 48 or 36 package. If they don't allow ill probably just get the RO 90 for now so i can sand dust free.

I think im gonna make a boom arm that mounts to the ceiling above my main work area as my shop is not really suited to a rolling CT. The plan is just to have one at each work station of which ill have three including my kiter station..

What do people think about using a Kapex for a while with a rigid shop vac?

You just want lot's of suction .. so that'll tide you over for a bit [wink] [smile]

Longer term you'll want all the benefits!

You're not going to go wrong with a RO90 either ... it's a lovely little beast.

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2014, 11:53 AM »
Amt: can you tell me where i can get the kit for the XL and the cost?

As for the R0 90 I'm sure ill be happy. I just finished making a batch of birch and maple cabinet/shelfs. I gave them a oil based cherry stain and two coats of satin conversion varnish. I did all the sanding prior to stain with just a Dewalt palm sander not a orbital as my orbital stuff the bed "again". I kill and orbit at least every few years. Being i am getting on the festool band wagon i was not gonna run out and vuy another so i made due with the palm sander. I hand sanded the last pass or grit with 220.

Between coats of varnish i hit them with a 320 screen and then blow them down with air vacuum and tack them with the back of my hand. I cant find one single swirl mark or scratch on them. I figure if this is the case the R0 90 will be a big improvement. I will admit the way i did them is time consuming but i am used to it as its all i have ever done other than use a orbital or DA...

I do hope that i will be able to use the RO to say smooth edges up to 16th down flush prior to doing things like applying veneer or laminate...

What do you think will the RO do that in aggressive mode?

I sold a ton of odds and ends about the house on ebay and another forum i frequent. I have yet to collect all the funds but all said and done i will have $4800 in cash! I gotta save a fair amount of it for lumber for projects over the winter but it looks like i should have enough to buy the Domino XL, Kapex and either a RO or RO CT package. I need random tools like a dovetail jig and probably a stuff ton of dominos but ill figure that out as its short $$ by comparison.

I did have another carpenter/furniture maker suggest i purchase a drill press before the Domino XL as obviously i can make my mortises with it along with a do a myriad of other tasks. What do people here think. It would free up some money as i can get a nice drill press for less or about the same as the Domino XL?

« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 12:00 PM by Iceclimber »
Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7639
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2014, 05:02 AM »
The Rotex with the right grits will eat through stuff really well, but if you want to shred it quickly the RAS115 is a gem [wink]

You're not going to kill a ROTEX with aggressive sanding though, they're built for it!

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: New to the forum
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2014, 11:28 PM »
Thats what i wanna hear.

I actually busted out the old Makitta 6" disk sander with some 60 grit today to take down something real quick. Worked like a charm but the  dust man!

Its gonna be a long time before i start collecting Festool sanders as after this next Kapex, RO90, Domino XL, 118" rail and maybe the CT36 autoclean and a couple dozen of those new drawer things. I already have my next round of Festool purchases figured out.

MFT/3 with Incra arm jig, router table, boom arm and the organization thingy that mounts to the top of it. Dint even get me started on how bad i want the installers kit but just how far away i am to actually spending money  such minute items...

Oh and a SawStop a Hammer jointer planer and a drill press and real dust collection formthe big tools..
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 11:42 PM by Iceclimber »
Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..