### Author Topic: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart  (Read 89172 times)

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#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« on: April 02, 2015, 11:16 PM »
Been planning this a long time, I actually started 2 of these and the dimensions were not right, actually just not well thought out. The goal is to have one cart combining the best of the MFT, a slightly larger top at my preferred 37" working height, and incorporating systainer storage. After messing up the first attempts I decided it needed to be drawn to exact dimensions before I started chopping up more 80/20. This is the result so far:

Overall width is ~55" and depth is 32".

I am using 28" long full-extension drawer slides so I will have room for 2 systainers deep, 2  sets high, or 12 total. Any excess space above the systainers will get shallow full depth (28") drawers, ideal for holding the Rip Guides, dogs, clamps, etc. The shelf under the MFT top will be perfect to store all the big red squares and straight edges.

All the panels  will be MDF of birch ply, with rabbeted tongues (with the exception of the top) to fit into the slots on the extrusions. Most of the 80/20 will be put together with the inexpensive standard end fasteners (no brackets), with the exception of the 1530 around the top which will get some extra brackets to stiffen it up.

Depending on how the spirit moves me this weekend I may postpone finishing the shop walls and start on this, when it is done it will sort out a lot of the clutter in the shop.

Suggestions for any improvements are welcome.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.

#### neilc

• Posts: 2416
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 11:35 PM »
Richard

I like the design.  Looks like it will give you a lot of storage plus some good strength.  80/20 is really great stuff.  I drew my drawing in Sketchup like you and then sent it to the 80/20 rep for his refinements and quoting.  Worked great to go back and forth that way.

Here's an 80/20 bench I made for Systainers and other items.  Might give you some ideas.

- The upper shelf uses 80/20 back rails with extra standoffs to extend around the overlay top.  I like having the upper shelf so I don't have to bend down for every item.  Most of the overhead Systainers actually go to a destination - like router bits to the CMS or the Vecturo being used away from the shop.
- The sortainers have a strip across the back to hold them in place and keep them from sliding.  There is space behind them for seldom used tools.
- I did a vise on the end with the top offset to provide clearance and the wheels lock giving me a very sturdy bench
- Bottom shelf is for 'future purchases'
- I got the heavy maple top at Woodcraft.  I have a couple of other tables drilled for 20mm holes and clamping
- The plywood shelves were finished with acrylic poly and dropped in place to fit between the posts during assembly.  Looks like you are capturing yours in the 80/20 rails.  I wanted mine to allow full access rather than having the rail extend above them, reducing access from the edge.  [size=78%]They are all screwed down to T-nuts captured in the 80/20[/size]
- You can't see it but I captured a power strip on the side rails on the left side with T-Nuts for easy power.

I debated doing pull out shelves but I have the full Systainer port to the left and several other pull out storage units in the shop.

Might give you some ideas.

Neil
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 11:45 PM by neilc »

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 11:46 PM »
Thanks Neil. I like the upper shelf, have to give that some thought.

Also like the vise on the overhang, my old traditional maple bench had one & it was used a lot. This thing should easily weight 3-400# when it is loaded, so it should be stable enough for hand planing, so the vise would be nice to ahve.

I see a few steppers on the shelf, are you dabbling in CNC?

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### neilc

• Posts: 2416
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 11:52 PM »
On your question on stepper motors, yes - I have a small mill and a lathe and am in the process of converting them to CNC.  Also working on an Arduino controlled fence for the CMS with a stepper, screw drive, pillow blocks with bearings, and a couple of rails.  Should be under $100 in parts and a little time. I have a friend with a full machine shop - Bridgeport, Hardinge Lathe and Tormach. Awesome machines. Love the manual machines and slowly learning the CNC stuff. I have the bug but don't have the space or budget! neil #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #4 on: April 03, 2015, 12:02 AM » @neilc I'm already getting the thread off-topic but I'm kinda infatuated with CNC myself. I have small HandiBot router mill for making jig parts, & was playing with some Arduino boards and steppers this winter to pass the long nights, once the shop is back in working order I am going to rig up some linear motion goodies myself. Check out the new V-Slot linear actuator kits,$150 gets you the 1,000 mm extrusion, all the linear motion parts and a NEMA 23:

http://openbuildspartstore.com/c-beam-linear-actuator-bundle/

The inventors, Mark and Trish are simply brilliant makers and have come up with a great modular 20mm system for linear motion.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### neilc

• Posts: 2416
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 12:14 AM »
Richard - that's awesome!  I'll definitely explore that site more.

When I start down the build of the arduino controlled fence, I'll start a thread here.

neil

#### rvieceli

• Posts: 781
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 08:14 AM »
Richard from the plan it looks like you have 2 upright frame pieces of 80/20 in the back of the piece. Are those needed? It would seem that making the back piece one solid unit with perhaps a dado or dominoes to join the sided where the drawers go might make construction easier and the whole piece more rigid.

On the pieces of 80/20 where the t slot is captured (like the long horizontals) could you mill the slot a bit larger in an area so you could drop in a clamp and then slide it over?

I realize that it could compromise the extrusion perhaps, but I don't think you'd need to open it up a lot. Plus you also have a lot of support built into those pieces with the sides, top and drawer divider sections.

Ron

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 10:17 AM »
Richard from the plan it looks like you have 2 upright frame pieces of 80/20 in the back of the piece. Are those needed? It would seem that making the back piece one solid unit with perhaps a dado or dominoes to join the sided where the drawers go might make construction easier and the whole piece more rigid.

On the pieces of 80/20 where the t slot is captured (like the long horizontals) could you mill the slot a bit larger in an area so you could drop in a clamp and then slide it over?

I realize that it could compromise the extrusion perhaps, but I don't think you'd need to open it up a lot. Plus you also have a lot of support built into those pieces with the sides, top and drawer divider sections.

Ron

Ron,

I was tossed on the rear panel dividers, finally went with them for 2 reasons, they replace fasteners in the rear panel/center panel connection and by breaking up the rear panel I get better use of 4 by 8 sheets. Also I have a ton of 80/20 so it was no big expense.

Regarding getting clamps in the slots, I will probably do what you suggest but there is only one slot (bottom one on the 1530) that is not accessible. When I was building the first version I modified some corner brackets to open up each slot which is why the corner posts stop short of the top of the 1530 - this is what it looks like on the second version before the brackets are added:

This was the fist version with the corner brackets in place:

Thanks for the suggestions.

RMW

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### rvieceli

• Posts: 781
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 10:59 AM »
Got it on the back.

I was also thinking about the extrusions that hold the under shelf for the milling as well.

You might also want to put some kind of floor locks on.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/c/material-handling/casters/floor-locks
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 11:05 AM by rvieceli »

#### Richard A.

• Posts: 50
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 11:21 AM »
Richard,

Do you CNC the tops yourself or do know someone down by you that does it for you? I am in the planning stage of building one 72" X 32".

- Rich
They're not really good for anything,

but they still bring a smile to your face
when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#### Dane

• Posts: 342
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 11:57 AM »
That looks similar to the one that I built recently.  One thing that I did, that you might consider, is I divided the top into 3 sections with two crosspieces.  Then I made basically mini-versions of the Paulk bench that drop into the holes.  That allows me to pull them out and replace them if they get damaged and eliminates the lower horozontal piece of 80/20.  It also allows me to make different modules that can drop into the sections as needed- a router module, sanding module etc.  Anyway, I'm not quite finished with it, but it seems to be working well.

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 01:01 PM »
Richard,

Do you CNC the tops yourself or do know someone down by you that does it for you? I am in the planning stage of building one 72" X 32".

- Rich

Rich, I have not made the top yet and am still undecided. There is a shop in EHT that has a 5 by 10 shopbot, they quoted me 100 for a full sheet if I supply the material. I have a method thought out using the LR32, and there are several threads on this subject, so I may try it myself first. Check out www.100kgarages.com to locate CNC machine owners near you. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 01:05 PM » Ron, forgot about that extrusion. I use the Bessey auto adjusts a lot with 80/20, all they need is a 5/8 ish hole for the head of the 5/16 screw to go thru. I may limit myself to those clamps in the slots that are blocked. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 01:09 PM » That looks similar to the one that I built recently. One thing that I did, that you might consider, is I divided the top into 3 sections with two crosspieces. Then I made basically mini-versions of the Paulk bench that drop into the holes. That allows me to pull them out and replace them if they get damaged and eliminates the lower horozontal piece of 80/20. It also allows me to make different modules that can drop into the sections as needed- a router module, sanding module etc. Anyway, I'm not quite finished with it, but it seems to be working well. Dane thanks for the suggestion. I had considered that before and forgot about it. I like that idea because I can use the Bessey clamps in those extrusions also. Post some photos of your bench if you have them. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 06:31 PM » Geeze this "making accurate plans for stuff before building it" BS is tough work! I've been tweaking the SketchUp plan in my spare time for the past week, all the while fighting with the finer points of using SU Pro/Layout. I think I'm finally gaining on it... The learning experience has been how to think thru all the measurements. For example I started with a 96mm grid of holes on the MFT top, with a 64mm outside border (from CL of the last hole) then tried to make the inside dimensions work out - end up with extrusions I needed to cut in really odd lengths. Too simple to screw up in the shop. I got hung up on trying to make things in 32MM increments, further messing up my head. Finally figured out to focus on the things that needed to be a certain dimension, i.e: • Minimum shelf width for a Systainer + drawer slide width *3 + 2 divider panels = minimum MFT top width • Length of drawer slides = minimum MFT top depth • Take minimum top width, divide by 96 then round down to even number *96 + outside margin to get actual MFT top target width • Take top target width, subtract divider panel thickness, divide by 3 to get individual Systainer bay widths, check that against minimum Systainer shelf width needed • Lather, rinse, repeat... I have a new-found respect for guys who develop plans and sell them, it's a boatload of work. Anyway, here's the latest: Perspective w/ 2X Sys-2 Example front view with measurements Now that I have all the views I need to take it all out into the shop and check the measurements to see where the plans diverge from reality... RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard A. • Posts: 50 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #15 on: April 09, 2015, 08:09 PM » Richard, In your new dimensional front view it looks like you have the top rail mounted too low. I thought the whole idea was to have the top groove of the top rail higher than the sides so you could slide clamps in from the sides. - Rich SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES They're not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #16 on: April 09, 2015, 08:15 PM » Richard, In your new dimensional front view it looks like you have the top rail mounted too low. I thought the whole idea was to have the top groove of the top rail higher than the sides so you could slide clamps in from the sides. - Rich Rich, It must not be showing clearly in the drawing, the top extrusion is 3" high, the side extrusion only come up 1.5" on it, leaving the top & upper side slots open. There is a photo earlier in the thread of V2.0, same setup. Each top/side slot is clear: RMW RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard A. • Posts: 50 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #17 on: April 09, 2015, 08:31 PM » Richard, In looking at it again, I see it now. It must have been an optical dillusion. I saw it in your original design but at first glance, on your new front view, I thought you changed it. When I first saw your 3" top rail with your 1- 1/2" side posts, I thought that was the greatest thing about your whole design. (& why didn't I think of it. lol) By the way, I found a CNC shop in my area from the link you told me about. Thanks again. - Rich SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES They're not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #18 on: April 09, 2015, 08:37 PM » Richard, In looking at it again, I see it now. It must have been an optical dillusion. I saw it in your original design but at first glance, on your new front view, I thought you changed it. When I first saw your 3" top rail with your 1- 1/2" side posts, I thought that was the greatest thing about your whole design. (& why didn't I think of it. lol) By the way, I found a CNC shop in my area from the link you told me about. Thanks again. - Rich Cool. Not sure where you are in Jersey but, in case you did not see it, there is a ShopBot "Camp" down here in May: http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-connections/s-new-jersey-camp-shopbot-516-in-mays-landing/msg386986/#msg386986 RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Wooden Skye • Posts: 1120 • My little girl was called home 12-28-15 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #19 on: April 09, 2015, 09:08 PM » Richard Looks like a great design. That should be extremely useful. Bryan TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories #### rvieceli • Posts: 781 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #20 on: April 09, 2015, 10:50 PM » looks good. Are your casters about 125 mm high overall? is there enough space for another systainer drawer on top of the two already there? Ron #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #21 on: April 09, 2015, 11:27 PM » looks good. Are your casters about 125 mm high overall? is there enough space for another systainer drawer on top of the two already there? Ron 127mm or 5". There is room for a level of sys-1 above the sys-2's. Each shelf is 2 deep (700mm) so in a perfect world I could get 18 total. I don't keep my TS or routers in systainers, so they may not live in the cart anyway. I think everything I have is in 1's or 2's. Still hope to sneak in a couple shallow full depth drawers anyway for dogs, rip guides, clamps, etc. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### m1sanbo • Posts: 10 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #22 on: April 11, 2015, 07:59 PM » Can anyone provide info on best place to buy 80/20? I had never heard of it until I started following this thread. Tks. M #### rst • Posts: 1864 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #23 on: April 11, 2015, 08:58 PM » They have an EBay store that sells most of what they have and the service is outstanding. If you contact them on their web site they will have their nearest distributor contact you and send a catalog. #### m1sanbo • Posts: 10 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #24 on: April 11, 2015, 09:57 PM » tks #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #25 on: April 12, 2015, 09:36 PM » They have an EBay store that sells most of what they have and the service is outstanding. If you contact them on their web site they will have their nearest distributor contact you and send a catalog. Their eBay store is where where I buy all my stuff. If there is anything in the catalog they don't have in the eBay store just contact them before paying and they will add it to you order. As @rst stated they have great service. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #26 on: May 03, 2015, 09:35 AM » Yesterday was the perfect spring day at the shore, blue sky and 60's. The boss was away and, upon serious consideration of the day's potential it was, ahem, decided that finishing the honey-do's was not the highest and best use of the day. I'll take my beating like a man when she gets home. First order of business was the make the long-anticipated material stop/support for the Milwaukee cold-cut saw (+/- 1 hour): Next I cut all the 80/20 for the cart (+/- 45 minutes): Then clamped everything to power tap the ends (+/- 20 minutes): Finally drilled the access holes (this took over an hour as it required thinking): Finally dry-fit assembly (about 90 minutes): And, for those of you who can't avoid being distract by shiny red objects in the background, somewhere around 2:00 I tossed a 4# top round roast on the Joe, and around 4:00 finished it off with the reverse sear. Yes, it was as delicious as it looks, sliced thin and served with au jus on fresh rolls. Lessons learned: • The time spent on the saw was well worth it, the cuts were perfectly square and each batch of extrusions exactly the same length, critical when it comes time to assemble it all. • The plans were a good guide but it was necessary to triple check everything before cutting/drilling. Only after the project is complete will the printed plans truly be complete and accurate. • The dry-fit assembly is a necessary step, now I can measure the exact size of the plywood panels from the cart, then cut to fit. • Time passes fast when you are working on a project long in the planning. Off to get some plywood! RMW « Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 09:38 AM by Richard/RMW » As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### rvieceli • Posts: 781 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #27 on: May 03, 2015, 09:44 AM » Looks good Richard.... and not just the meat. #### ivanhoe • Posts: 165 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #28 on: May 03, 2015, 10:34 AM » darn you! First, tempting us with those fine aluminum extrusions, but then that nice roast.... Thankfully no shot of a tasty brew! Looks great! #### supimeister • Posts: 78 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #29 on: May 03, 2015, 10:37 PM » This looks incredibly sharp and well done. I would really love to see you get some plans together #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #30 on: May 04, 2015, 08:22 AM » This looks incredibly sharp and well done. I would really love to see you get some plans together Thanks @supimeister - the plans are a work in progress - here's the evolution so far: I'm learning that getting a usable, accurate set of plans (that could be used/understood by a 3rd party) involves actually making the thing on the plans and then going back and filling in the blanks afterwards. This project pushed me over the edge to buy Sketchup Pro, now I am forced to put it to good use to justify the cost. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. #### supimeister • Posts: 78 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #31 on: May 04, 2015, 09:35 AM » Super helpful - thanks for sharing! I would likely change one small thing for my own needs. I want to be able to put my mft/3 on top of an 80/20 base and have it align with another mft/3. So rather than use the 1530 to create an mft/3-esque top, I would just use my mft/3 instead. #### m1sanbo • Posts: 10 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #32 on: May 08, 2015, 08:04 PM » looks great so far, cannot wait to see the finished product. Love the Komodo Joe as well, I am a BGE man myself. keep the picks coming. #### supimeister • Posts: 78 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #33 on: May 08, 2015, 09:37 PM » This thread inspired what turned into this creature of a miter saw station... http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/rmw-inspired-8020-miter-saw-station/ And hopefully I will be able to finish my version of this cart - only I will simply set my mft/3 on top rather than use 1530 #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #34 on: May 10, 2015, 11:13 AM » @m1sanbo - I had the BGE for 15 years, loved it but when it met it's demise last year (operator error) a crop of new eggs were available and I looked at them all. Fred's Music & BBQ in Shillington PA has the BGE/Joe/Primo so I could see them all side-by-side. In the end I decided on the Joe mostly because of the new adjustable grates w/ceramic plates and I thought there was a touch better overall quality, but it is close. It didn't hurt that the Joe is about100 less than the egg, but that was just a bonus. Having used both now I learned the Joe is much easier to reach and hold a low temp on (seals a little better), while the egg is easier to hit a 900 degree sear, and just generally a little better @ grilling.

Here's Joe's country cousin, the latest addition to the fleet, a Pit Barrel Cooker. It followed me home (found it on my doorstep on Friday) & mom let me keep it...

2 5# chickens split in half yesterday, today there is a 10# brisket waiting to take the plunge  . I love springtime! Made-in-America by a vet, 1-Click, 300 bucks, shows up 4 days later and the quality it awesome.

@ivanhoe - hang tight, several tasty brews waiting for today's cook most likely some of the 2014 crop of Celebration Ale.

@supimeister - nice job on the chop saw cart, but "inspired?"... Aw shucks...

Thanks,

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### rvieceli

• Posts: 781
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2015, 04:01 PM »
Richard  - The Pit Barrel videos look good. Are you liking it?

Ron

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2015, 06:46 PM »
Richard  - The Pit Barrel videos look good. Are you liking it?

Ron

@rvieceli - having trouble controlling the temp and getting the cook time down, most certainly operator error, as the reviews are all glowing.

Today's brisket cooked too fast (170 degrees in 2 hours) so I had to foil it too late (for 1 hour) then rest it for an hour & then tossed it back on to try to give it a bit of sear, overall it was tough and flavorless. Part of it may have been the piece of meat, it was from BJ's and only the flat, not a Prime cut. Looks like it is destined to simmer in some au jus before using the rest for sammiches.

Par for the course with a new smoker. The only other brisket I have done (on a kamado) slow smoked overnight and was a full packer brisket from Amish country, so it does not really compare. That piece of meat had all of us making nummy noises when we sampled it.

The issue I have so far is the instruction on settings are dumbed-down in an attempt to make them foolproof. They tell you @ sea level to set the bottom damper @ 1/4 open, but since it is a circular opening with the cut out as the damper it is hard to tell what is really "1/4 open".

Similar issue yesterday with the chicken but in reverse, they cooked over 3 hours but were still 125 degrees. I started with the damper more closed-down, then tried to raise the temp by opening it up. I finished them off in a 325 degree oven out of frustration. the meat was very moist with a great smokey flavor.

Time will tell, most probably I just need to learn how to use it properly.

RMW

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2015, 09:05 PM »
Last weekend I set up to start cutting plywood, made one squaring cut and BLAMMO!! the CT hose pulled the TS off the top of the stack of BS I had set it on and it got to take a trip to the Festool day-spa. About $100 later it should be heading home next week. So instead of finishing the MFT/SYS cart I got a wild hare and decided to add to the fleet: This should be a multi-purpose cart, 3-4 drawers with one tall enough to hold the routers and my small spindle sander along with some mounting plates. I plan to add a folding wing that the routers, jig saw and sander can drop into and this will also be my router table, etc. I'm interested in any idea anyone has along those lines for bench-mounting power tools. The interesting thing is, as I eyeball and estimate how much storage I will get from these 2 carts, it looks like I will be able to lose some of the stationary cabinets. Off to the ShopBot "camp" tomorrow here in SNJ, whetting the appetite from more CNC tools. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### rvieceli • Posts: 781 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #38 on: May 15, 2015, 11:01 PM » Richard -check out this thread by Scorpion on garagejournal: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174553&page=31 Mini tables start on page 31 #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #39 on: May 16, 2015, 05:30 PM » Richard -check out this thread by Scorpion on garagejournal: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174553&page=31 Mini tables start on page 31 Thanks Ron. I had seen that thread a while back, probably before those tables were made. IIRC that thread cost me several hours of my life, too many great ideas to absorb in a short time. That is basically what I was looking to do, need to spend some more time reviewing the thread again, there is a lot more to it that when last I looked. Thanks again. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Picktool • Posts: 126 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #40 on: May 21, 2015, 06:45 AM » Q on the floor locks Do the floor locks lift the table off the floor or can you put a thicker pad underneath to prevent it from moving. Are they adjustable? I'll be making a rolling MFT table and would like to move it around but also lock it in place, so i'm thinking of using 2 of them 1 for each end. It should be pretty heavy by the time I finish. Anyone have experience using them? Thanks -Ronnie Got it on the back. I was also thinking about the extrusions that hold the under shelf for the milling as well. You might also want to put some kind of floor locks on. http://www.globalindustrial.com/c/material-handling/casters/floor-locks Well Dogey #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #41 on: May 21, 2015, 09:45 AM » Q on the floor locks Do the floor locks lift the table off the floor or can you put a thicker pad underneath to prevent it from moving. Are they adjustable? I'll be making a rolling MFT table and would like to move it around but also lock it in place, so i'm thinking of using 2 of them 1 for each end. It should be pretty heavy by the time I finish. Anyone have experience using them? Thanks -Ronnie Got it on the back. I was also thinking about the extrusions that hold the under shelf for the milling as well. You might also want to put some kind of floor locks on. http://www.globalindustrial.com/c/material-handling/casters/floor-locks Ronnie - I won't be using the floor locks, primarily because there is a threshold my cart has to cross when I roll it outside. The floor locks I have seen/used have minimal clearance under them when raised, I am concerned that they will catch on the threshold. That said, they are a great idea for use on flat floors. If you only use 2 then the table would still be resting on the casters on the other 2 corners. I plan on using casters where the lock secures the wheel from rolling and also from pivoting, not all caster locks do this so you have to look for that feature. My hunch is, considering the weight of the loaded cart, that this will be plenty stable for my use. Hand planing is probably the ultimate test, time will tell if the locking casters will suffice. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Picktool • Posts: 126 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #42 on: May 21, 2015, 12:54 PM » Right on... I also have the locks on the wheels on another rolie but I find myself tap kicking the tabs alot moving around it. True about the threshold, i might bring my table outside and it would have to clear .... there goes that idea. Then again I could always drop a rod into the floor, like a gate. Thanks for your reply Rich Well Dogey #### m1sanbo • Posts: 10 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #43 on: June 22, 2015, 06:57 PM » any updates on this project? #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #44 on: June 24, 2015, 09:36 AM » any updates on this project? @m1sanbo sadly, no. I got bushwhacked by some projects the boss considers more important, and spring brings guests to the shore & lots of social stuff. The next step is to cut the plywood panels and route dadoes for them to slip into the slots in the 80/20. I expect this to require some trial and error to get the fit precise, after that is should be simple to add trays for the Systainers and some drawers. I am updating the plans as I go, by the time the project is done the plans should be complete... If I can get 2 uninterrupted days in the shop I should be done. Hope to get back to it over the July 4th weekend. My practice is to run all my errands before the holiday starts then not leave home until the hoards are gone. Ideal time to spend in the shop. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### m1sanbo • Posts: 10 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #45 on: June 26, 2015, 08:17 PM » Thanks, I know the feeling, looking forward to finished product #### m1sanbo • Posts: 10 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #46 on: June 26, 2015, 08:20 PM » Thanks, I know the feeling, looking forward to finished product #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #47 on: July 06, 2015, 03:22 AM » Progress Report: We had a beautiful weekend at the shore, and as is my habit I ran my errands before the hoards descended upon us and never left the house after Thursday. Time to work on the MFT/Sys Cart! Photos show it best, here’s the assembled cart waiting for drawers: Started with disassembling the frame, leaving the casters loosely attached and making the side panels: Testing the fit between the side/rear panels & the shelf/dividers. The shelf rests on the dividers and is screwed to them from the top also: Final dry fit & installing the shelf, I thought this would be a 3-handed operation since all 4 corners have to slip in from above (due to the end fastener hardware) but it went surprisingly smooth: Assembled the top rails and repeated the maneuver: Then flip it on end and start tightening the fasteners from the bottom up: Houston, we have a cart…: Secured the partitions to the shelf with a couple SPAX screws: Day 2 started by designing the tabbed brackets to support the top, and milling them on my little Handibot CNC: At this point I was struck by a nap-eleptic seizure (which is why I am updating this at 3 AM); spent the rest of the afternoon in my recliner… Anyway, the weekend’s results were good. Amazingly (to me) it looks suspiciously like the original design: The top got a light coat of OSMO, probably should have coated the other surfaces before assembly but I got too excited so I’ll have to come back and do it the hard way later. I also neglected to route some clamp access openings in the 2nd and 3rd horizontal t-slots so for now I cannot use them for clamping. Hope to attack this in the future, again doing it the hard way. With completion so close at hand it should prompt me to finish up the Systainer trays and some drawers, so I can finally stop moving stuff out of the way every time I need to work on something. Hope all my US brethren enjoyed the 4th holiday as much as I did, and everyone else had a good weekend. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### rvieceli • Posts: 781 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #48 on: July 06, 2015, 10:53 AM » Looks good Richard! Ron #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #49 on: August 14, 2015, 10:09 PM » It's been a while since I made it into the shop, weekends seems to melt away this time of year, but there has been a bit of progress... TA-DA! A sliding horizontal thingie!!! 28" slides are a perfect fit for 2 systainers, it took a little fiddling to get the spacing and offsets just right but I think this nailed it. The front lid easily clears the rear systainer and the rear lid should open fully even when the next set is above it. Routed 4mm deep pockets. I have mostly Sys 1's/2's & a couple 3's, hope to get 16-18 total in the cart, then use whatever room is leftover at the top for shallow drawers for layout tools. The 28" slides mean I can have drawers long enough for 24" rules and other long, awkward stuff. And I got to use my new guide rail T-Square, after a bit of tweaking to get it dead-on square it worked great. Set up 2 of these permanently with 1080MM and 800MM rails, really handy for the way I work. Only stopped working because it hit 9:00 and I don't want to tick off the neighbors, tomorrow looks like a perfect day weather-wise so I aim to wrap this all up. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### JimReed • Posts: 13 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #50 on: August 20, 2015, 02:30 PM » Love that T-square for the Festool rails. Who makes that one? Also, love your build and can't wait for your finished plans to be available as your design is exactly what I have been hoping to do. Well done! Jim Thanks, Jim _________________________________ Jim Reed Watkins Glen, NY #### live4ever • Posts: 771 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #51 on: August 20, 2015, 02:55 PM » Love that T-square for the Festool rails. Who makes that one? He does, except he hasn't decided to let us start having it yet. Current systainer to productivity ratio: very high #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #52 on: August 20, 2015, 03:45 PM » Love that T-square for the Festool rails. Who makes that one? He does, except he hasn't decided to let us start having it yet. @live4ever - sorry to be such a tease. I do have a handful of extra ones I had made up but I was not sure they were ready for prime-time until I got to play with it a bit. Hang tight. @JimReed - thanks, I am planning to go back and revise the plans when I get the cart finished, the funny thing is I had to build the cart to check the plans before I was sure they were right. All my shop projects this year have gotten bushwhacked by summertime fun, family events or mid-day siestas... not to complain. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### BigCountry73 • Posts: 47 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #53 on: August 20, 2015, 09:27 PM » I love the MFT style bench with the 80/20. I hope to be able to build one when funds allow! I LOVE my Pit Barrel Cooker too! The PBC is awesome and super easy to cook with! Keith #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #54 on: August 20, 2015, 11:10 PM » I love the MFT style bench with the 80/20. I hope to be able to build one when funds allow! I LOVE my Pit Barrel Cooker too! The PBC is awesome and super easy to cook with! Keith @BigCountry73 - Keith I am tossed on the PBC. The reviews are awesome, and the videos show how easy it should be, but I am struggling to get good results. It really bugs me but I cannot get the cook times consistent and keep fiddling with the lower vent opening. It's more touchy that I expected, and I am not getting the "smoke fog" they advertise. It either seems too cool (no fog) or too hot (cooking too fast). The last time I did ribs several people commented they were not as good as past efforts, which cooked on the Joe. I hung the ribs for ~4 hours adjusting the vent up/down as the temps seemed to drop/increase, then sauced and hung them again for 20 minutes. They were good but a bit drier than I would like. I have not cooked on it a lot but for some reason it has just not been working for me. Any tips would be welcome. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #55 on: September 20, 2015, 01:36 PM » Seems like the past few weeks have been consumed by WORK and the boss insisting we have FUN on the weekends. We have a friendly disagreement as to whether playing in the shop qualifies as FUN, recently her position has prevailed. This weekend I put my foot down and refused to participate in FUN, so there was progress on the router table project which has been percolating for a while. The table is 600MM square & designed to fit Woodpecker/Kreg inserts (am I the only person who didn't realize they were interchangeable until last week?): Lack of space for a dedicated table led to making this as an attachment to the cart. I am planning one more 600MM square cart full of drawers so this will likewise attached to it. Here's the cart as it stands today: Next up is making custom-fit trays to hold all the small red squares, dogs, etc., boxes sized for sandpaper to fit on the pullout SYS shelves, & adding fronts/pulls to the shelves. RMW PS @TheTrooper thanks for shipping the Woodpecker insert quickly, showed up in time for the weekend project. As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #56 on: January 10, 2016, 11:28 PM » So far this winter has been pretty busy, no time to work on the shop project. Hoping to change this, as the weather is incredible (50's today) and the boss is about to head to Florida for a month so I have more time to play. Most recent additions are a 2' X 4' radiant heat panel (750 watts @ 220V) that is temporarily mounted and (finally!) a simple 80/20 materials cart. The cart meets my original goal of everything in the shop movable i.e. on casters. Plan to add to it with a partial top covering the 24" high material but leaving the other half open. I have enough clear height in the shop to temporarily store 8' sheets on end, on the cart. About ready to insulate and sheath the walls/ceiling, then it should get to be fun. RMW « Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 11:35 PM by Richard/RMW » As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### rvieceli • Posts: 781 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #57 on: January 11, 2016, 11:15 AM » Sounds good Richard. Been missing your posts. Ron #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #58 on: July 10, 2016, 03:58 PM » Got back to fiddling with 80/20 carts this weekend and spent some time confusing myself senseless trying to integrate 32mm into the design of a cart. Pretty happy with the end result, I based it in the KISS 32mm system. This cart is going to be home to a big-a##ed printer and supplies: Printer will go in the top drawer, then 2 shallower drawers for paper rolls and stuff. Leaves the top free for a little CNC mill and maybe the 3D printer. First change was to use 24mm thick (2 X 12mm ply) panels for the ends so the inside face would be slightly proud of the extrusions and the drawer slides would mount easily. Also used the KISS 32 convention that side panels must be an increment of 32mm plus 6mm for the top/bottom reveal. Not totally necessary on this project but I have been hankering to learn a 32mm cabinet system and this was an opportunity. In KISS 32 the drawers faces are increments of 32mm minus 3mm, so you end up with a 4.5mm top/bottom reveal and 3mm between drawers. Figured it would be a lot easier to assemble it upstairs instead of in the shop then lugging it up there, danged near overlooked that one... Total fasteners = 16 screws/clips for the frame and another 12 screws for the casters. Zero brackets, which is what kills you when buying 80/20. Add in 36' of extrusion, 2/3 sheet of 1/2" and 1/3 sheet 3/4" ply, a little Osmo, casters and some cheap slides, call it$250 total. Still needs something for a top and some drawers, so maybe another $100 to finish it off. Even after goofing around with the KISS 32mm it only took one workday, spread over 2 days, so with the drawers and top figure 2 days. It's nice to be back working IN the shop rather than ON the shop. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Michael Kellough • Posts: 3327 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #59 on: July 10, 2016, 08:37 PM » Is that the metric product? Doesn't the Imperial stuff have a groove in the face? #### BadRobot • Posts: 47 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #60 on: July 10, 2016, 08:39 PM » What series of 80/20 aluminum extrusion did you use? Festool clamps fit perfectly. Thanks, Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #61 on: July 10, 2016, 09:41 PM » Is that the metric product? Doesn't the Imperial stuff have a groove in the face? Nope Imperial. 1515 ULS - Ultra Light Smooth. More than heavy enough for most anything you will need in this type of application. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #62 on: July 10, 2016, 09:42 PM » What series of 80/20 aluminum extrusion did you use? Festool clamps fit perfectly. Thanks, 15 series, although 40 series fits the clamps just as well. RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### deepcreek • Posts: 710 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #63 on: July 10, 2016, 11:46 PM » Always love your posts on 80/20. Thanks for sharing! I'm still trying to figure out my MFT/Outfeed/Storage cart and want to integrate their products so I can clamp things vertically on the sides. Joe Adams TimberFire Studio Houston, Texas http://www.facebook.com/timberfire #### promark747 • Posts: 458 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #64 on: July 28, 2016, 09:54 AM » I'm building an 80/20 top for my new workstation (which will then have a MFT-style MDF top) and am struggling to figure out the best corner connection to allow for clamp access. I like Richard's idea of the modified 3-way connector, but I will probably just go with butt connections, with the long front and back rails covering the side rails. The trick is then getting access to the slots in the side rails. How big of an access hole/slot would you think is required to slip in the Festool clamps? (I will be using 36" 3030 profiles for the outer side rails, 36" 1530 for two inner support rails, and 72" 1530 for the front and back. The frame will be attached to a Lista Align motorized workstation that I accidentally discovered on Craigslist for a steal. The only issue with is was that the front and side support brackets were bent, hence the need to build my own out of 80/20.) « Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 09:58 AM by promark747 » #### rst • Posts: 1864 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #65 on: July 28, 2016, 11:18 AM » I approach corners with 8020 differently, similar to how the MFTs are constructed. I use 3" aluminum angle .250 thick on the inner edges, drilled through inline with the extrusion slots and attached with tee nuts. I do not overlap the extrusions, thus both sides are open for clamps and other attachments. My last project was co-joined CMS tables. While this is not 8020 material, the process is the same. « Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 11:28 AM by rst » #### rst • Posts: 1864 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #66 on: July 28, 2016, 01:24 PM » FYI there is another source of interesting extrusions available online...www.brunnerent.com most of their extrusions a available anodized. #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #67 on: July 28, 2016, 01:35 PM » Dang @rst - those look really interesting! At some point I want to some up with a modular setup where I can wheel the cart outside, attached some extensions for cutting ply, attach a router table extension, inverted jigsaw, sander, etc. Basically have a workcenter I can customize depending on the project du jure. What are those extrusions you show - from the MFT but reversed? can you provide details on how to attach the CMS plates? Thanks, RMW I approach corners with 8020 differently, similar to how the MFTs are constructed. I use 3" aluminum angle .250 thick on the inner edges, drilled through inline with the extrusion slots and attached with tee nuts. I do not overlap the extrusions, thus both sides are open for clamps and other attachments. My last project was co-joined CMS tables. While this is not 8020 material, the process is the same. (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### rst • Posts: 1864 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #68 on: September 28, 2016, 10:31 AM » RMW, I know this is late but for some reasons I'm no getting notifications. Your question regarding the extrusions looking like MFT is because this setup is two VLs with two pieces of MFT rail connecting the tables, giving me enough room to attach my Woodpeckers adjusters using two 8020 15 series t slots. The only other 8020 material is the 2X2 brackets and t slot t nuts. #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #69 on: November 26, 2016, 01:53 PM » It's been a while since I updated any of the threads I started, mostly since every project is struck in an unfinished state. Finally got around to adding a folding wing to the MFT/SYS cart. It's strong & stable as heck, & adds about 30" by 28" of work surface. Next I need to use the Parf guide and make a MFT-holey top for the wing. Was originally planning to have dog holes in the main top but I find I like working on it sans-holes, so I'm planning to use the wing w/holes for a cutting station using a set of Rip Dogs. After seeing how stable this wing is I am really considering adding one to the rear, with it flipped up I will have a worktop that is about 53" wide by 60" deep. Too large to use inside the shop, but my big projects mostly happen out on the deck anyway. Someday I may even get some fronts on the SYS drawers... RMW As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Rhino1789 • Posts: 28 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #70 on: November 26, 2016, 04:32 PM » Richard, What an incredible cart. Have you finalized your plans yet? If so, are you able to share them? Do they include a materials list with costs. How much in total do you think you have invested in the cart (money and time)? Now that's its done, would you do it again? Would you do anything differently? Would there be disadvantages to purchasing the extract lengths from 80/20 versus cutting them to final dimensions yourself? I just got an MFT and wanted to build a Systainer storage cart, but was thinking of constructing using 3/4 plywood. What are the advantages of your cart over all plywood construction? Disadvantages? Have you approached 80/20 about marketing your project? I actually wish they had more tool/workshop plans available for those of us creatively challenged. Awesome work! I also love the extension idea. Thank you! #### Dovetail65 • Posts: 4596 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #71 on: November 26, 2016, 04:38 PM » I have a slow internet connection, I am out in the country struggling with 5MB/s service, my old home had 100MB/S service 10 years ago. It takes a full minute to look at your pics. Guys please shrink the file sizes. 2.7Mg? the file size can be shrunk 10 times smaller with no loss in picture quality. This took me 30 seconds to do, the file is over 10 times smaller at 200K instead of 2700K and loaded on my computer in less than 1 second. I know I have a slow connection and that's on me, but if everyone keeps uploading files this large for no reason this website will be out of control in 10 years. I am surprised the forum allows more than a 1MB file size, it's just not necessary for internet pictures on a forum off this type : « Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 04:42 PM by Dovetail65 » The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it. #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #72 on: November 26, 2016, 06:34 PM » Sorry Dovetail, didn't realize the images were that large. I actually take screenshots of my photos to try to keep the size down. RMW I have a slow internet connection, I am out in the country struggling with 5MB/s service, my old home had 100MB/S service 10 years ago. It takes a full minute to look at your pics. Guys please shrink the file sizes. 2.7Mg? the file size can be shrunk 10 times smaller with no loss in picture quality. This took me 30 seconds to do, the file is over 10 times smaller at 200K instead of 2700K and loaded on my computer in less than 1 second. I know I have a slow connection and that's on me, but if everyone keeps uploading files this large for no reason this website will be out of control in 10 years. I am surprised the forum allows more than a 1MB file size, it's just not necessary for internet pictures on a forum off this type : (Attachment Link) As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #73 on: November 26, 2016, 09:16 PM » @Rhino1789 Howdy, you packed a lot of questions in there! Here goes: Nope the "plans" were never finished, I kept having to make changes based on actual construction and the final design hasn't been documented. The idea was to have a cut-list calculator spreadsheet and corresponding plans. You enter all the details into the calculator like desired OAL height/width/depth, extrusion profile (15 or 40 series), caster size, how many banks of Systainers, etc. pick metric or imperial and it gives you a parts list. Problem with the cut-list calculator is it is loaded with formulas and references and everything has to be checked and rechecked to prevent costly errors. Might happen this winter if I end up stuck inside at night a lot. As far as cost, there is over 50' of extrusion @$300-$350 full list price, which is about$5/LF for 1515 ULS (ultra-light smooth) and $10/LF for 1530 ULS. Fasteners & (4) brackets are another ~$100. Casters, drawer slides and plywood add a couple hundred bucks. Total call it ~$600-$650.

I buy the extrusions mostly in 8' sticks from 80/20 on eBay whenever I find a deal, just picked up some 2nds for around 1/3 of the list price. Using 2nds & cutting/drilling/tapping them yourself will keep the cost down. If you bought everything cut-to-size, drilled and tapped the cost would darn near double for the extrusions. Every hole and/or tap costs a couple bucks from 80/20.

After the learning curve a second cart went together in a few hours, it took more time to cut to size & rabbet the plywood than it took to cut/drill/tap the extrusions. I do have a good metal cutting shop saw and the necessary drill guide for the extrusions, and power tap them with a drill. If you are not set up for this it will take a bit more time.

There are lots of examples of similar all-plywood carts on the FOG. I like the ability to use the t-slots for clamps, etc., especially the Kreg Automaxx, which is an advantage to using 80/20. It's probably more rigid but I don't have a plywood cart to compare to so this is just a guess. The cart loaded up is pretty heavy & it takes a bit effort get it moving but there is zero racking no matter how much I jerk it around. With the casters locked it is plenty stable enough for hand planing.

Hopefully this answers everything. Where in PA are you located? I'm in Brigantine Jurzey.

Thanks,

RMW

Richard,
What an incredible cart. Have you finalized your plans yet? If so, are you able to share them? Do they include a materials list with costs. How much in total do you think you have invested in the cart (money and time)? Now that's its done, would you do it again? Would you do anything differently? Would there be disadvantages to purchasing the extract lengths from 80/20 versus cutting them to final dimensions yourself?

I just got an MFT and wanted to build a Systainer storage cart, but was thinking of constructing using 3/4 plywood.  What are the advantages of your cart over all plywood construction? Disadvantages?

Have you approached 80/20 about marketing your project? I actually wish they had more tool/workshop plans available for those of us creatively challenged.
Awesome work! I also love the extension idea.
Thank you!
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Rhino1789

• Posts: 28
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2016, 10:40 PM »
Richard,
Thanks for the very detailed response and yes you definitely answered my litany of questions.  I figured you had that much invested in the 80/20, its quality certainly shows.  I just got myself an MFT that I plan to pair up with a Mafell MT55, so I got some short pieces of 80/20 to use as Guide Rails and material support.  That little bit wasn't cheap either.

You actually gave me an idea since I have some 80/20 incorporated into my MFT.  Because I have a number of Kreg Automax clamps already, I'll use my 80/20 pieces (with Qwas dogs) to affix my Kreg clamps to the table. Thanks for the tip.

I actually just moved to Bucks County, PA from Scotch Plains, NJ, and grew up in Gloucester County, NJ, so I know Brigatine a little. Growing up, I spent my summers in Ocean City, NJ, so I'm always jealous of folks living down there year round. Good for you! Thanks again and let me know if you ever decide to sell your well designed 80/20 carts.

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2016, 04:31 PM »
Finally got to use the awesome Parf guide from UJK & @Peter Parfitt and make myself a Holey MFT surface. The system works perfectly, simple to use and great results.

I've found since building this cart I have not missed having MFT holes in the main work surface so I only added them to the wing, and mostly so I can set up a Rip Dogs cutting station:

The guide fence from the MFT makes it easy to set a stop for repetitive cuts. I have a bunch of 2" wide cherry to rip to length for some cabinet end panels and door frames, which is what prompted me to finish up the fold down wing. The main table itself gives me a 60-some inch support for the offcuts & I can use this setup for cutting 8' material without often having to move the cart.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Ocram

• Posts: 57
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2016, 05:20 PM »
It looks very nice Richard. I got a question for you, can explain to me how the guide fence from the MFT is attached to the dogs? Or even better cap you post a closeup picture?

Greets Ocram

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2016, 07:19 PM »
Howdy @Ocram - those are the guide fence adapters for the Rip Dogs. Take a look at http://www.ripdogs.com/guide-fence-adapter/

I just use 2 sets of them with the guide dogs to hold the fence.

Thanks,

RMW

It looks very nice Richard. I got a question for you, can explain to me how the guide fence from the MFT is attached to the dogs? Or even better cap you post a closeup picture?

Greets Ocram
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Peter Parfitt

• Magazine/Blog Author
• Posts: 3964
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2016, 12:27 AM »
It looks very nice Richard. I got a question for you, can explain to me how the guide fence from the MFT is attached to the dogs? Or even better cap you post a closeup picture?

Greets Ocram

Hi @Ocram

I am in the middle of making a new video with some updates on the Parf Guide System and so on. One thing that I do mention are the UJK Guide Rail Clips for the Parf (or any other 20 mm) dogs. They are available from Axminster. Here is a link:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-dog-rail-clip-pair-102973

They have been designed by Axminster, I have nothing to do with them at all but I have used them and they work brilliantly.

Peter

#### Ocram

• Posts: 57
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #79 on: December 30, 2016, 07:01 PM »
Thanks for the replay @Richard/RMW

Didn't see the Rip Dogs adapters before. They look good en i bet they work perfect but only with Rip Dogs looking at the pictures. The diameter on top of the Rip Dog is not 20mm if i am correct. So this is no option for me.

Ocram

Howdy @Ocram - those are the guide fence adapters for the Rip Dogs. Take a look at http://www.ripdogs.com/guide-fence-adapter/

I just use 2 sets of them with the guide dogs to hold the fence.

Thanks,

RMW

#### Ocram

• Posts: 57
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2016, 07:09 PM »
Hello @Peter

Thanks for sharing this option. Looking forward to your review video and opinion.

Ocram

It looks very nice Richard. I got a question for you, can explain to me how the guide fence from the MFT is attached to the dogs? Or even better cap you post a closeup picture?

Greets Ocram

Hi @Ocram

I am in the middle of making a new video with some updates on the Parf Guide System and so on. One thing that I do mention are the UJK Guide Rail Clips for the Parf (or any other 20 mm) dogs. They are available from Axminster. Here is a link:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-dog-rail-clip-pair-102973

They have been designed by Axminster, I have nothing to do with them at all but I have used them and they work brilliantly.

Peter

#### ryanjg117

• Posts: 111
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2016, 08:23 PM »
I scored this nice workbench, secondhand, apparently originally used at a local university in their science labs:

I only realized after the fact that it has about $1,000 worth of 80/20 extrusions and fasteners, including two really nice and super heavy duty pull-out drawers. While this design could (and has been) working as a makeshift JumboMFT, I've wanted to make a few design improvements for some time. And, of course, the great thing about 80/20 is that it can be broken down and re-assembled with minimal effort. Here was my list of design improvements, in order of importance: 1) Provide a means to open up the extrusions along the top, for clamping access. These extrusions are 15 Series, so I believe Festool clamps will slide right in without issue. The dilemma here is that the clamping channels are enclosed, so a new fastening method would have to be employed. 2) Provide an open "top deck" where random trinkets could be stored. This deck would ideally run underneath the entire working surface, and yet provide enough headroom for the Festool clamps to slide in without issue. 3) Enclose the bottom portion of the cabinet, to keep out dust and debris. 4) Make it mobile. Even though the rubber feet shown above are incredibly grippy (called Mighty Mounts, and a whopping$50 apiece), I would appreciate the workbench being mobile. However, I still want stability, so I'm planning to use double-locking casters (locking both the wheel and swivel articulation). There will be some loss of stability, but the mobility trade-off is worth it to me.

5. Add miter gauge channels along the left-hand side of the surface. This workbench will do double-duty as an outfeed table for my Powermatic 65 tablesaw. Another project in the queue is to build a mobile base for that tablesaw, and at that time, I'll make sure to provide a means to level it such that it will be flat with this working surface.

I've been able to incorporate most of these improvements in the design below. I took careful measurements and re-created the workbench in a parametric modeling program. This is just a rendering, not yet reality, but I think it can be overhauled at a cost of about $150 in 80/20 components, casters, and plywood. Let me know what you think! #### Ocram • Posts: 57 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #82 on: December 31, 2016, 07:01 AM » Hello @ryanjg117 , very nice en looks solid too. Your plans for converting it in a jumbo MFT would be my idea too. If you want to put a vac in the bench I personally find it handy too store it on the right side of the bench since I am right handed. I wold put right drawer in the middle to create space for the vac. What ever you do, it will be a killer bench. Greeting Ocram #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #83 on: December 31, 2016, 03:01 PM » @ryanjg117 Nice score getting the used bench. Looks like they used linear bearings for the drawer slides, total overkill but I guess budget wasn't a concern for them. You might consider salvaging them for later use in something else and replace with cheap 100# full extension slides. You would also have all the extrusions to re-purpose since you are adding an end panel that the slides can mount to. FWIW you will need to trim the corner brackets to get the Festool clamps into the t-slots, They partly block the slot: Hopefully you can see how these are trimmed from this photo: If you are shopping for casters check out castercity.com - you can mix/match wheels/brakes/mounts and get nice 4" casters for around$15 with the double locking brake. I'm a fan of these.

Going to be a great bench when you are done with it.

RMW

I scored this nice workbench, secondhand, apparently originally used at a local university in their science labs:

I only realized after the fact that it has about $1,000 worth of 80/20 extrusions and fasteners, including two really nice and super heavy duty pull-out drawers. While this design could (and has been) working as a makeshift JumboMFT, I've wanted to make a few design improvements for some time. And, of course, the great thing about 80/20 is that it can be broken down and re-assembled with minimal effort. Here was my list of design improvements, in order of importance: 1) Provide a means to open up the extrusions along the top, for clamping access. These extrusions are 15 Series, so I believe Festool clamps will slide right in without issue. The dilemma here is that the clamping channels are enclosed, so a new fastening method would have to be employed. 2) Provide an open "top deck" where random trinkets could be stored. This deck would ideally run underneath the entire working surface, and yet provide enough headroom for the Festool clamps to slide in without issue. 3) Enclose the bottom portion of the cabinet, to keep out dust and debris. 4) Make it mobile. Even though the rubber feet shown above are incredibly grippy (called Mighty Mounts, and a whopping$50 apiece), I would appreciate the workbench being mobile. However, I still want stability, so I'm planning to use double-locking casters (locking both the wheel and swivel articulation). There will be some loss of stability, but the mobility trade-off is worth it to me.

5. Add miter gauge channels along the left-hand side of the surface. This workbench will do double-duty as an outfeed table for my Powermatic 65 tablesaw. Another project in the queue is to build a mobile base for that tablesaw, and at that time, I'll make sure to provide a means to level it such that it will be flat with this working surface.

I've been able to incorporate most of these improvements in the design below. I took careful measurements and re-created the workbench in a parametric modeling program. This is just a rendering, not yet reality, but I think it can be overhauled at a cost of about $150 in 80/20 components, casters, and plywood. Let me know what you think! As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### ryanjg117 • Posts: 111 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #84 on: January 02, 2017, 04:24 AM » You might consider salvaging them for later use in something else and replace with cheap 100# full extension slides. You would also have all the extrusions to re-purpose since you are adding an end panel that the slides can mount to. FWIW you will need to trim the corner brackets to get the Festool clamps into the t-slots, They partly block the slot: Richard, thanks for the info on the issue with the corner brackets... I was a little worried those might not be open enough, so I'll have to be sure to bore those out before attempting to put it all together. Also, good idea on pulling out and potentially repurposing the linear bearings for a future project. They really don't make all that great a drawer slide because they take a lot of force to actuate--nothing like the smooth Blums I'm used to. Speaking of which, I've got a few Blum drawer slide kits sitting around... Might be a good use for this. Funny you mention the same source for casters that I've been eyeing for this project. I'm a big fan of the "total locking" casters and will probably go with four of the 3" 300-pound rated casters for this project. #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #85 on: January 02, 2017, 09:02 AM » @ryanjg117 - I'll see if I can locate photos of the mod necessary on the corner bracket, although I am sure it's not hard for you to envision. I put the cap screw in and traced it's outline, then struck a line from corner to corner with a straightedge and removed everything outside the lines. FWIW, if you decide to go with standard glides, after some trial/error I concluded that the best end panel is made up of 2 pieces of 1/2" laminated then you route a dado leaving an 8mm (5/16") tongue to slip into the slot. With the 15 series profile this leaves the inside face of the panel a couple MM proud of the extrusion and it's simple to mound the glides. These photos show what I am referring to. Have fun! RMW You might consider salvaging them for later use in something else and replace with cheap 100# full extension slides. You would also have all the extrusions to re-purpose since you are adding an end panel that the slides can mount to. FWIW you will need to trim the corner brackets to get the Festool clamps into the t-slots, They partly block the slot: Richard, thanks for the info on the issue with the corner brackets... I was a little worried those might not be open enough, so I'll have to be sure to bore those out before attempting to put it all together. Also, good idea on pulling out and potentially repurposing the linear bearings for a future project. They really don't make all that great a drawer slide because they take a lot of force to actuate--nothing like the smooth Blums I'm used to. Speaking of which, I've got a few Blum drawer slide kits sitting around... Might be a good use for this. Funny you mention the same source for casters that I've been eyeing for this project. I'm a big fan of the "total locking" casters and will probably go with four of the 3" 300-pound rated casters for this project. As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### deepcreek • Posts: 710 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #86 on: January 02, 2017, 11:03 AM » @Richard/RMW My New Year's resolution for 2017 is to finally build the 80/20 MFT Outfeed Table I've been planning since you started this thread! I have a couple of questions that I am hoping you will answer for me. I love the folding side table and was wondering about getting the right parts for the hinges so that it can fold down out of the way as well as lock in the upright position. Can you elaborate? Also, you may have already explained this but what process do you use for threading the 80/20 yourself? Many thanks! Joe Joe Adams TimberFire Studio Houston, Texas http://www.facebook.com/timberfire #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #87 on: January 02, 2017, 01:51 PM » @deepcreek - Howdy Joe. If you are planning on making a flip-up outfeed table this setup should work great. The supports are KV 0206. Video of power tapping the 80/20: I only use the Ultra-Light Smooth (1515 ULS) profiles, in which the end holes have an "X" shaped relief that reduces the surface area of the hole itself and tapping with a drill works fine. If you used the heavier 1515 profile the hole is solid and the only time I ever broke a tap was in that extrusion. It is also overkill, the ULS works for everything I have done. Other than tapping the ends you need to drill an access hole inside the slot to reach thru and tighten the fasteners, unless you are only using corner brackets. You can either drill the holes on a drill press or 80/20 sells a drill guide for around$30.

Clear as mud?

RMW

@Richard/RMW My New Year's resolution for 2017 is to finally build the 80/20 MFT Outfeed Table I've been planning since you started this thread!

I have a couple of questions that I am hoping you will answer for me.

I love the folding side table and was wondering about getting the right parts for the hinges so that it can fold down out of the way as well as lock in the upright position.  Can you elaborate?

Also, you may have already explained this but what process do you use for threading the 80/20 yourself?

Many thanks!

Joe
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### deepcreek

• Posts: 710
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #88 on: January 02, 2017, 04:41 PM »
@Richard/RMW

Thank you so much!

That video was very encouraging.  As simple as using a little cutting oil and a tap in a cordless drill.

Before seeing it, I was trying to figure out how to get long lengths under my bench top drill press!

Any tips on accurately cutting the pieces to length?

Joe
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 12:22 AM by deepcreek »
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

#### Wooden Skye

• Posts: 1120
• My little girl was called home 12-28-15
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #89 on: January 02, 2017, 04:55 PM »
Richard will be able to provide a lot more advise, but I have cut 80/20 using my sliding miter saw.  I use high tooth blade, lock slide and cut very slow.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #90 on: January 02, 2017, 05:50 PM »
Joe, I use a dedicated metal cutting chop saw with an AL blade. As Bryan stated I think you can make the same cut with most any SCMS using the right blade. For reference my 14" Milwaukee dry-cut saw is 1,500 RPM, and the Oshlun blade cuts thru it like butter. I've never used any lube, & again as Bryan stated just cut slowly and let the blade do it's job.

RMW

« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 05:58 PM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

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#### deepcreek

• Posts: 710
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #91 on: January 03, 2017, 12:21 AM »
Joe, I use a dedicated metal cutting chop saw with an AL blade. As Bryan stated I think you can make the same cut with most any SCMS using the right blade. For reference my 14" Milwaukee dry-cut saw is 1,500 RPM, and the Oshlun blade cuts thru it like butter. I've never used any lube, & again as Bryan stated just cut slowly and let the blade do it's job.

I have a 14" Dewalt metal chop saw and found that Olshun blade on Amazon along with a 12" version that will fit my old reliable Dewalt 705 miter saw.  (I kept it for cuts I don't want to make on my Kapex.) Now I just have to decide which one will work better!!??

One last question (I think) - What tool did you use to trim the excess profile of the corner brackets?

Thanks for the kind words.  I love your designs/creations!
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

#### deepcreek

• Posts: 710
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #92 on: January 03, 2017, 12:22 AM »
Richard will be able to provide a lot more advise, but I have cut 80/20 using my sliding miter saw.  I use high tooth blade, lock slide and cut very slow.

Thanks, Bryan!
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #93 on: January 03, 2017, 01:33 AM »
Portaband mounted in table top setup and a Foredom with carbide burr for cleanup. Those brackets are cast so you can probably get away with a hacksaw and files if need be.

Post pics when you get it done.

RMW

Joe, I use a dedicated metal cutting chop saw with an AL blade. As Bryan stated I think you can make the same cut with most any SCMS using the right blade. For reference my 14" Milwaukee dry-cut saw is 1,500 RPM, and the Oshlun blade cuts thru it like butter. I've never used any lube, & again as Bryan stated just cut slowly and let the blade do it's job.

I have a 14" Dewalt metal chop saw and found that Olshun blade on Amazon along with a 12" version that will fit my old reliable Dewalt 705 miter saw.  (I kept it for cuts I don't want to make on my Kapex.) Now I just have to decide which one will work better!!??

One last question (I think) - What tool did you use to trim the excess profile of the corner brackets?

Thanks for the kind words.  I love your designs/creations!
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### mindbend

• Posts: 4
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #94 on: March 07, 2017, 11:35 AM »
Great projet and thread! Any tips/pointers on the best place to purchase these extrusions and connectors?
Thanks,.

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #95 on: March 10, 2017, 09:03 AM »
Howdy @mindbend  to the FOG.

I get my stuff from 80/20's eBay store.

RMW

Great projet and thread! Any tips/pointers on the best place to purchase these extrusions and connectors?
Thanks,.
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### mindbend

• Posts: 4
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #96 on: March 10, 2017, 09:14 AM »
Got it! Thanks.

p.s. I've made some corner connectors via my 3D printer that don't need to be hacked/cut. May be advantageous for builders here.

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #97 on: March 10, 2017, 09:48 AM »
Got it! Thanks.

p.s. I've made some corner connectors via my 3D printer that don't need to be hacked/cut. May be advantageous for builders here.

Great idea. Have you shared the file anywhere?

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### ryanjg117

• Posts: 111
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #98 on: March 12, 2017, 04:08 PM »
Got it! Thanks.

p.s. I've made some corner connectors via my 3D printer that don't need to be hacked/cut. May be advantageous for builders here.

Great idea. Have you shared the file anywhere?

RMW

And what material did you use for 3D printing it? My experience with 3D printing is that all of the available polymers are quite weak, especially for any kind of structural use. I did a 3D printing project awhile back using glass reinforced nylon and have found them to still have far too much flex to be suitable for anything like this.

#### Fuji22

• Posts: 2
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #99 on: August 24, 2017, 12:08 AM »
@ryanjg117 - What modeling program did you use to create your renders?

#### deepcreek

• Posts: 710
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #100 on: November 26, 2017, 01:27 PM »
I've been planning to build an 80/20 based MFT table for a long long time.  The idea was inspired by Richard's excellent designs that he has so generously shared here.  Thank you @Richard/RMW

The reason I finally pulled the trigger is that 80/20.net is offering rare 15% off sitewide for a Black Friday deal that extends through Cyber Monday.
www.8020.net

I ordered all the components I will need to build a 3' x 6' table with an MFT top with an extra 2' fold up wing on one end.  The table will serve as the outfeed table for my Unisaw with adjustable casters for leveling.  It will have easy reach storage for my Festool sanders, routers, clamps, accessories, Leigh jig and more.

I also ordered 80/20 parts for a router sled and rails that will attach to the table rails to give me 3' x 8' capacity for flattening slabs.

I'm super excited and will post updates when I start the build.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 01:29 PM by deepcreek »
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

#### dupe

• Posts: 61
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2018, 09:21 AM »
Sorry to dig into an old topic, but first thanks @Richard/RMW  this has been an invaluable resource - over 66,000 reads!

I've likewise been working on plans for a (safer) more reliable router sled based on your tectonic wizardry [ seen here ]

This will be my 3rd and final* - no details on Sled#1 as it makes hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Sled #2 was based on Nick Offerman's version - while it felt much safer and provided a better finish, the limitations on wide pieces and ability to make consistent, uniform passes got me planning again.

I've been pricing profiles from 8020's Garage Sale and using https://openbuilds.com/ as a starting point for how I'd like this sled to function - conceptually a gantry system with adjustable widths and locking router plate. The idea is, rather than stretching across a width of the table back and forth (typically across grain), I'd include incremental-locking stops on the router plate with the primary motion being the length of the work piece, with the grain. Buildlog hopeful...

I've gathered the 15 series best suited for bench projects based on adaptability - the majority OpenBuilds Store platforms are based on the 20 mm profiles, I was shocked at how much more expensive the 15 mm profile is in comparison to the larger 20??? So this is the route I'll be taking for the sled application. 8020 Garage Sale is better than wholesale I suppose, but the shipping is still brutal. I'm now looking at Grainger who distributes 8020, shipped to store in 7 days for pickup, pay just TAX! Has anyone used Grainger as a supplier? I may be missing something but this seems like the most economical route, anyone?

@deepcreek keep me in the loop on your build
MFT.1080    CT.Midi    DF.500    DTS.400    ETS.EC150/3    RO.150

#### rst

• Posts: 1864
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #102 on: January 11, 2018, 10:41 AM »
Hntdpl, years ago when I first started using 8020, I contacted them via their website for a catalog.  They sent me one but also contacted their closest distributor, who then contacted me.  It may be that 8020 has a distributor close enough to you that will save you shipping.  Grainger sells practically everything under the sun, but they are expensive.

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #103 on: January 11, 2018, 01:04 PM »
I've gathered the 15 series best suited for bench projects based on adaptability - the majority OpenBuilds Store platforms are based on the 20 mm profiles, I was shocked at how much more expensive the 15 mm profile is in comparison to the larger 20??? So this is the route I'll be taking for the sled application. 8020 Garage Sale is better than wholesale I suppose, but the shipping is still brutal. I'm now looking at Grainger who distributes 8020, shipped to store in 7 days for pickup, pay just TAX! Has anyone used Grainger as a supplier? I may be missing something but this seems like the most economical route, anyone?

Hey @htndpl - to clarify the 80/20 "15" series is 1.5"/38mm not 15mm, which probably accounts for the cost difference with openbuilds 20mm profiles.

I buy all my 80/20 from their eBay store

#### Michael Kellough

• Posts: 3327
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #105 on: January 11, 2018, 02:52 PM »
Did a project that required many thousands of dollar worth of 80/20 stuff.
Thought it would be helpful to go through a distributor in case there were problems.
Turns out the distributors (Knotts in this case) don't actually stock the stuff.
They just pass the order on to 80/20.

When I needed more stuff I ordered through the 80/20 website, worked fine.
When I needed something really fast I ordered from McMaster.com

When the budget was exhausted and I needed something I checked out the 80/20 ebay store first.

#### dupe

• Posts: 61
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #106 on: January 11, 2018, 03:04 PM »
Jesus, talk about an oversight  , I knew I was missing something...Thanks for the correction Richard and thanks @rst for the tip, I'm going to look into local distribution. Back to the drawing board...
MFT.1080    CT.Midi    DF.500    DTS.400    ETS.EC150/3    RO.150

#### Bugsysiegals

• Posts: 84
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #107 on: January 24, 2018, 08:14 PM »
Hey Richard, thanks for sharing the awesome build!!  I’m building a cart also but have some variation to it and have questions on how to fasten the extrusion together.

I decided not to go with thicker top extrusion as I have supports underneath so there’s not much deflection with 4040 and I’ll notch out the inner t channel in a few spots so I can slip clamps inside when needed.

That said, how do you mount corners?  With end fasteners it seems drilling in both directions would blow out the center core of the extrusion and substantially weaken it. Does it weaken it even in regular butt joints?  It doesn’t seem possible to use this fastening method for butt joints which are opposite each other like the short vertical pieces on the upper level of my cart design. I’m thinking I’d need to use anchor fasteners for these instead?

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #108 on: January 25, 2018, 08:06 PM »
Hey Bugsy - couple thoughts:

As mentioned in PM, I used the end fastener method of all the connections except the top rails. This was to (1) keep cost down (the brackets are what kills you w/ 80/20) and (2) to get access to the end of the top extrusions for clamps. This method involves drilling an access hole in one extrusion (call it extrusion "A") and tapping the end hole of the corresponding one. In practice you need to have access to the opposite side of extrusion A so you can use a hex key to tighten the fastener. Because of this you can only use end fasteners on corner joints or T-joints. These images may help in understanding this - the arrows show where you need access to tighten the fastener:

In the second image you would not have access to be able to tighten the fastener for both the top and bottom extrusions.

My general thought on your design is that those small sections between the top and center rails are not necessary. Unless you are expecting to stand on top of your cart I doubt you would do anything to bend or flex the top rail in normal use.

I would also recommend you check the mounting holes on the drawer slides you plan to use. I had looked at having intermediate extrusions between each bank of drawers but the holes in the slides are not close enough to the end to mount into the t-slot. This is largely why I used plywood dividers between my drawer banks.

In case it helps anyone here there are 2 videos that depict what you have to do at home to use the end fasteners with 80/20. My power tapping video:

And 80/20's video on the fasteners themselves:

Hope this helps.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #109 on: January 25, 2018, 08:40 PM »
That said, how do you mount corners?  With end fasteners it seems drilling in both directions would blow out the center core of the extrusion and substantially weaken it. Does it weaken it even in regular butt joints?

Sorry - to respond to your question drilling access holes in 2 directions does not weaken the extrusion. On the corners however I used these 3-way corner brackets:

RMW
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 08:42 PM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Bugsysiegals

• Posts: 84
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2018, 11:38 PM »
Thanks Richard. I may do some cabinet assembly and glue ups on top of the cabinet but the short extrusions are also so I can put drawers up top for rules, squares, sandpaper, clamps, etc.

I’m considering 28” KV8450FM Soft Close Slides which I can get for somewhere between $10-15 per set which should mount similar to this cart, "MarxIng MFTM Multifunktionstisch Bausatz mit Anwendungsbeispielen" it's an MFT, as seen here ... « Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 11:59 PM by Bugsysiegals » #### Bugsysiegals • Posts: 84 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #111 on: January 28, 2018, 04:26 PM » How did you mount the top to the cart? I’ve found several brackets, etc., but am not certain what’s best or if there’s a cheaper alternative. Top fastening kit Panel mount bracket Corner bracket Panel Bracket #### Dusty.House • Posts: 5 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #112 on: January 28, 2018, 08:24 PM » How did you mount the top to the cart? I’ve found several brackets, etc., but am not certain what’s best or if there’s a cheaper alternative. Top fastening kit Panel mount bracket Corner bracket Panel Bracket Richard made his own using a CNC machine. I was going to ask a similar question, which is, what's a suitable alternative? I like how the top is recessed but slightly above the frame. I want to build a CNC machine, but my benches need to come first I like the idea of the 80/20 Inc Aluminum 1.50" Roll-In Panel Mount Bracket 15 Series #2488 N (the 15 series version of the 40 series you posted). They don't require framing hardware, just a screw into the top. That screw should then hold the bracket in and load the weight on to the frame. On a related note, has anyone tried Faztek? I'm in the process of finalizing an order with them for the first of four benches I want to build. They are about 25% cheaper than 80/20. « Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 12:23 AM by Dusty.House » #### Richard/RMW • Retailer • Posts: 1731 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #113 on: January 29, 2018, 09:22 AM » Great find on the drawer glides. The cheapo ones I used didn't have the holes close to both ends so weren't usable without the plywood panel. These glides also let you position the drawer at any height easily. RMW Thanks Richard. I may do some cabinet assembly and glue ups on top of the cabinet but the short extrusions are also so I can put drawers up top for rules, squares, sandpaper, clamps, etc. I’m considering 28” KV8450FM Soft Close Slides which I can get for somewhere between$10-15 per set which should mount similar to this cart, "MarxIng MFTM Multifunktionstisch Bausatz mit Anwendungsbeispielen" it's an MFT, as seen here ...
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #114 on: January 29, 2018, 09:28 AM »
Bugsy as @Dusty.House stated I made my own 1-piece top connectors shown midway thru this post.

An easier way would be to use a small piece of 5/16 AL or ply as a tab in the inside slot and then another small piece whatever thickness needed to raise your top to the height you want.  Drill a hole in both and screw up from below into the top.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Dusty.House

• Posts: 5
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #115 on: January 29, 2018, 01:54 PM »
Bugsy as @Dusty.House stated I made my own 1-piece top connectors shown midway thru this post.

An easier way would be to use a small piece of 5/16 AL or ply as a tab in the inside slot and then another small piece whatever thickness needed to raise your top to the height you want.  Drill a hole in both and screw up from below into the top.

RMW

@RMW - What thickness did you end up with? Looking at your connectors it looks like they could easily be made from a block of HDPE with a rabbet to 5/16.

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #116 on: January 29, 2018, 04:23 PM »
Bugsy as @Dusty.House stated I made my own 1-piece top connectors shown midway thru this post.

An easier way would be to use a small piece of 5/16 AL or ply as a tab in the inside slot and then another small piece whatever thickness needed to raise your top to the height you want.  Drill a hole in both and screw up from below into the top.

RMW

@RMW - What thickness did you end up with? Looking at your connectors it looks like they could easily be made from a block of HDPE with a rabbet to 5/16.

That's basically all they are. You will need to measure your extrusion and the top material to figure out what you need.

In my case  I wanted my top to be exactly 12.7mm (1/2") proud of the extrusion and I was using nominal 3/4" ply that measured 18mm. The 5/16" slot = 8mm.  The extrusion is 38.1mm & either side of the slot is 15mm (I dropped the .05mm) so my math worked out to be:

18mm - 12.7mm = 5.3mm
15MM - 5.3mm = 9.7mm
9.7mm + 8mm = 17.7mm

So I used full 3/4" (19.1mm) plastic and knocked 1.3mm off the top and then rabbeted 9.7mm to get the 8mm tongue.

Clear as mud...?

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Dusty.House

• Posts: 5
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #117 on: January 29, 2018, 08:23 PM »
Bugsy as @Dusty.House stated I made my own 1-piece top connectors shown midway thru this post.

An easier way would be to use a small piece of 5/16 AL or ply as a tab in the inside slot and then another small piece whatever thickness needed to raise your top to the height you want.  Drill a hole in both and screw up from below into the top.

RMW

@RMW - What thickness did you end up with? Looking at your connectors it looks like they could easily be made from a block of HDPE with a rabbet to 5/16.

That's basically all they are. You will need to measure your extrusion and the top material to figure out what you need.

In my case  I wanted my top to be exactly 12.7mm (1/2") proud of the extrusion and I was using nominal 3/4" ply that measured 18mm. The 5/16" slot = 8mm.  The extrusion is 38.1mm & either side of the slot is 15mm (I dropped the .05mm) so my math worked out to be:

18mm - 12.7mm = 5.3mm
15MM - 5.3mm = 9.7mm
9.7mm + 8mm = 17.7mm

So I used full 3/4" (19.1mm) plastic and knocked 1.3mm off the top and then rabbeted 9.7mm to get the 8mm tongue.

Clear as mud...?

RMW

Clear to me!

Thank you, this'll save me a ton of money in fasteners! Plus I think I can use the same principle on the sides to add strength to the peg board I plan to install. I have a bunch of 24" to use but my frame is 25". I can slot it into the top\bottom and use these to stabalise the sides.

Cheers

Ben

#### Dusty.House

• Posts: 5
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #118 on: January 29, 2018, 08:50 PM »
Seems like the past few weeks have been consumed by WORK and the boss insisting we have FUN on the weekends. We have a friendly disagreement as to whether playing in the shop qualifies as FUN, recently her position has prevailed. This weekend I put my foot down and refused to participate in FUN, so there was progress on the router table project which has been percolating for a while.

The table is 600MM square & designed to fit Woodpecker/Kreg inserts (am I the only person who didn't realize they were interchangeable until last week?):

Richard - How does the router table attach? Am I right in saying that you've used a joining strip that's permanently attached to the extension. You then slide t-nut in the other 1/2 of the extension plate into the main table from the left\right and tighten the bolt?

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #119 on: January 30, 2018, 12:48 AM »
Seems like the past few weeks have been consumed by WORK and the boss insisting we have FUN on the weekends. We have a friendly disagreement as to whether playing in the shop qualifies as FUN, recently her position has prevailed. This weekend I put my foot down and refused to participate in FUN, so there was progress on the router table project which has been percolating for a while.

The table is 600MM square & designed to fit Woodpecker/Kreg inserts (am I the only person who didn't realize they were interchangeable until last week?):

Richard - How does the router table attach? Am I right in saying that you've used a joining strip that's permanently attached to the extension. You then slide t-nut in the other 1/2 of the extension plate into the main table from the left\right and tighten the bolt?

Yes. In the 3rd photo in that post you can see (2) 1.5" by 3" 80/20 joining plates attached to the table. There is a second hole/fastener that fits into the slot on the top extrusion of the cart. The 90 degree legs rest against the intermediate extrusion.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Dusty.House

• Posts: 5
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #120 on: January 31, 2018, 01:59 AM »
Thanks!

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#### Bugsysiegals

• Posts: 84
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #121 on: February 04, 2018, 06:13 PM »
I bought this angle stock and plan to cut it down to smaller pieces to mount my MFT top using t-nut and screw to mount to the extrusion.

Angle Stock

Like this ... Angle Brackets

Now for my challenge, I’m making the height of my cart, without top, slightly less than my table saw, jointer, and planer, so it can serve as an outfeed for them, and it will be higher than them with the top attached so the table saw can be the outfeed for it (I’ll use the smaller piece of MDF without holes as a replaceable piece where I cross cut like a real MFT table).  The challenge, how do I attach the top in a way which allows me to remove in a reasonable amount of time?  With wood side panels, it will be difficult to reach inside to unscrew things. The tabs are aluminum so I’m not sure how well they’ll hold without stripping out. Perhaps some sort of retainer threaded through the aluminum with female end and a small screw which is recessed into the table from the top so I can power drive them out and fasten by hand as needed?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 06:27 PM by Bugsysiegals »

#### Bugsysiegals

• Posts: 84
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #122 on: February 04, 2018, 06:19 PM »
I’m thinking something like this which would thread into the bracket from underneath, because of its height somewhat into the MDF which is counterbored, and a screw with wider head which is countersunk from the top.  Do you think that would work well?  Where do I find smaller versions of these, not even sure what they’re called.

Coupler

#### Bugsysiegals

• Posts: 84
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #123 on: February 04, 2018, 06:26 PM »
Ok perhaps something like this with red locktite.

#### Bugsysiegals

• Posts: 84
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #124 on: February 13, 2018, 11:17 PM »
How did you attach your casters to the bottom of the extrusion?  We’re you able to use t-nuts?

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #125 on: February 14, 2018, 08:54 PM »
How did you attach your casters to the bottom of the extrusion?  We’re you able to use t-nuts?

Using 3 of the 4 holes in the caster base, thread one 5/16" cap screw into the end hole in the corner extrusion (threaded) and 2 others into t-nuts in the front/rear & side extrusions. 4th hole is unused.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Bugsysiegals

• Posts: 84
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #126 on: February 17, 2018, 11:28 AM »
Thanks, I was looking at doing it that way too but wanted to confirm.

#### ryanjg117

• Posts: 111
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #127 on: April 02, 2018, 08:03 PM »
Gents, I recently came into possession of a table made from 80/20 extrusions that I’m breaking down or actually reconfiguring to serve as a second JumboMFT or assembly table. I’ve come across a right angle internal fastener I haven’t seen before, and none of my hex keys seem to fit it. It looks to be about a 7mm hex hole, and of course 7mm is the hex size that seems to be skipped in most sets. But, I’m not sure if a hex would even work here as the fastener seems to have some key veins, 6 point it appears. Never seen a tool like this so wondering if you know how I can remove these threaded inserts.

Here are the pictures:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UNCtk0ed2Rjqm6uv2

#### Neohio

• Posts: 16
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #128 on: April 03, 2018, 08:07 AM »
Gents, I recently came into possession of a table made from 80/20 extrusions that I’m breaking down or actually reconfiguring to serve as a second JumboMFT or assembly table. I’ve come across a right angle internal fastener I haven’t seen before, and none of my hex keys seem to fit it. It looks to be about a 7mm hex hole, and of course 7mm is the hex size that seems to be skipped in most sets. But, I’m not sure if a hex would even work here as the fastener seems to have some key veins, 6 point it appears. Never seen a tool like this so wondering if you know how I can remove these threaded inserts.

Here are the pictures:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UNCtk0ed2Rjqm6uv2

Try some torx drivers.

#### Michael Kellough

• Posts: 3327
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #129 on: April 03, 2018, 09:46 AM »
@ryanjg117 please try to get more info on the source of that material. It is not made by 80/20 but some other company.

Also, very interested in the source and name of that hollow set screw. It allows the movable butt joint connection needed to make an MFS type construction without the milling usually required.

I’ve never seen a screw had like that either but try Torx.

#### ryanjg117

• Posts: 111
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #130 on: April 03, 2018, 10:22 AM »
@ryanjg117 please try to get more info on the source of that material. It is not made by 80/20 but some other company.

Also, very interested in the source and name of that hollow set screw. It allows the movable butt joint connection needed to make an MFS type construction without the milling usually required.

I’ve never seen a screw had like that either but try Torx.

I'll try Torx tonight and let you all know. I believe the machine was custom built in Germany, so the extrusions could be Bosch Rexroth, I'm not sure. There were also two SEW-Eurodrive pumps and two SEW-Eurodrive 0.37KW gear motors mounted to this table, along with two massive 50mm diameter linear shafts with bushings and a cylinder that controlled the adjustable height of the table. It's way beyond my pay grade but it will perform nicely for my meager woodworking and shop needs.

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #131 on: April 03, 2018, 10:28 AM »
Agree with Michael definitely not actual 80/20 extrusion but I would love to get my hands on some of those fasteners. If anyone tracks them down please post the info here.

Thanks.

RMW

(EDIT) After re-looking at the photo seems to me the part threaded into the extrusion requires a custom key for installation. Looks like it might also be factory installed based on the dimple that appears to be peened to lock the fastener in place and prevent it from turning?

RMW
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 10:32 AM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

#### Michael Kellough

• Posts: 3327
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #132 on: April 03, 2018, 10:51 AM »
@Richard/RMW makes a good point, even with the right driver (which might be a special tool with a long round shaft extending beyound the external splines) you’re going to have a hard time turning that screw without grinding away the aluminum that has been peened into the thread.

#### Neohio

• Posts: 16
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #133 on: April 03, 2018, 11:03 AM »
Agree with Michael definitely not actual 80/20 extrusion but I would love to get my hands on some of those fasteners. If anyone tracks them down please post the info here.

Thanks.

RMW

(EDIT) After re-looking at the photo seems to me the part threaded into the extrusion requires a custom key for installation. Looks like it might also be factory installed based on the dimple that appears to be peened to lock the fastener in place and prevent it from turning?

RMW

I don't see a peen at all. I see some extruding/rolling of the material to make way for the threads of the insert.

#### ryanjg117

• Posts: 111
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #134 on: April 03, 2018, 02:21 PM »
I've got a call into 80/20 to determine what kind of fastener this is. Apparently they stocked it some time ago but discontinued it because it did not sell. I'll let you know what I discover.

#### wheely

• Posts: 10
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #135 on: April 03, 2018, 02:46 PM »
This looks like an Item24 "Automatic" fixing

http://product.item24.co.uk/en/home/products/product-catalogue/productdetails/products/automatic-fastening-sets/automatic-fastening-set-8-bright-zinc-plated-38808.html

Their Line 8 (multiples of 40mm x 40mm with an 8mm slot) is just the right size for Festool clamps

There seems to be representation in the US
http://www.item24us.com/
item America, LLC
12105 Insurance Way
Hagerstown, MD 21740
Phone: +1 (301) 665-9772
Fax:     +1 (301) 665-9775

#### wheely

• Posts: 10
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #136 on: April 03, 2018, 03:01 PM »

#### Neohio

• Posts: 16
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #137 on: April 03, 2018, 03:03 PM »
Installation instructions for the Item Automatic fasteners can be found here, you may need to register to get the PDF.

http://www.item24us.com/media-center/installation-instructions/fasteners.html

McMaster-Carr has these available as PN 47065T339

#### rvieceli

• Posts: 781
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #138 on: April 03, 2018, 03:15 PM »
It also appears that you need a T50 Torx bit to fit that threaded piece.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-T50-Torx-3-8-in-Drive-Bit-Socket-H3DHBST50/202913549

Ron

#### Michael Kellough

• Posts: 3327
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #139 on: April 03, 2018, 03:25 PM »
@wheely @Neohio @rvieceli great sleuthing guys!

I’ve bought tons of stuff from McMaster including lots of T-slot framing and fasteners and never noticed that particular item before.

Don’t think I have a T50 bit either...

#### ryanjg117

• Posts: 111
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #140 on: April 03, 2018, 09:27 PM »
Yep, I contact 80/20 Technical Support today and they emailed me this page from the archives. They no longer offer this fastener (it didn't sell apparently) but it also says T-50 Torx. I'll have to check the tool chest to see if I've got it. @Neohio, since you were the first to successfully guess Torx, PM me your address and I'll ship you a temporary tattoo.

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #141 on: April 04, 2018, 08:16 AM »
Mystery solved. @ $10+ from MMC I can see why it would only get used in a very specialized situation. MMC probably just has old stock. Thanks for the info. RMW Yep, I contact 80/20 Technical Support today and they emailed me this page from the archives. They no longer offer this fastener (it didn't sell apparently) but it also says T-50 Torx. I'll have to check the tool chest to see if I've got it. @Neohio, since you were the first to successfully guess Torx, PM me your address and I'll ship you a temporary tattoo. As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride! #### Neohio • Posts: 16 ##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart « Reply #142 on: April 04, 2018, 11:56 AM » Mystery solved. @$10+ from MMC I can see why it would only get used in a very specialized situation. MMC probably just has old stock.

Thanks for the info.

RMW

Yep, I contact 80/20 Technical Support today and they emailed me this page from the archives. They no longer offer this fastener (it didn't sell apparently) but it also says T-50 Torx. I'll have to check the tool chest to see if I've got it. @Neohio, since you were the first to successfully guess Torx, PM me your address and I'll ship you a temporary tattoo.

Some of the other sized were more reasonable. They might not be old stock. They could be from a different vendor.

#### jg24

• Posts: 4
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #143 on: June 04, 2018, 11:18 AM »
I want to thank Richard for showing us a great project layout and build.  I am almost done with a similar project.  I decided to have drawers on both sides instead of a single deep drawer.  I will also be working on the top in the coming weeks.  I will use the Parf  Guide tool to create a Dog hole top.

#### jg24

• Posts: 4
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #144 on: June 04, 2018, 11:19 AM »
Front Side

#### jg24

• Posts: 4
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #145 on: June 04, 2018, 11:20 AM »
Back Side

#### blaszcsj

• Posts: 343
• I like building stuff with my hands.
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #146 on: June 04, 2018, 12:11 PM »
@jg24 How are you supporting/holding/positioning the main top?
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450

#### Richard/RMW

• Retailer
• Posts: 1731
##### Re: (Yet another) 80/20 MFT/SYS Cart
« Reply #147 on: June 04, 2018, 04:29 PM »
Back Side

@jg24 Nice! Looks like you even trimmed those top corner brackets to get full access to the t-slot? Never occurred to me to move them down to open up both slots in the top rails, kinda a "duh" moment for me. Great idea.

@blaszcsj easiest option I found was using something 8mm or 5/16" thick to slip into the slot and connect the top to it from below. Scrap of wood or AL bar, etc. You can also shim up if needed as the top will drop in 15mm on the 1515 profile.

RMW

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!