Author Topic: 96 mm Layout for new work table  (Read 11355 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AdW

  • Posts: 4
96 mm Layout for new work table
« on: October 13, 2016, 04:52 PM »
I have the LR32 kit and 20mm bit, wondering if anyone has an exact method of drilling a 4x8 table top to the 96 mm grid?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline geoffshep

  • Posts: 154
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2016, 04:58 PM »
Several methods, some discussed at length: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/ujk-parf-guide-system-videos/

and using what you have:




Offline erock

  • Posts: 1254
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2016, 05:00 PM »
Did you buy the FS 2424/2 LR32 rail ?   

If you have the LR32 system and the 95"  rail.....you're set.     You'll need to come up with good way to set the rail near the middle of the sheet, the edge stops will only get you so far into the middle of the sheet of ply/mdf.....I used a Woodpecker story stick.

Eric

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 942
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2016, 05:20 PM »
The Process in the video seems overcomplicated:

If your table top blank is square and a bit bigger so it can be cut to size after being drilled (you need ~2cm more in one dimension) it is relatively simple to creat a jig on the blank:

Create two rows of index holes (every 3rd hole in the rail) matching (5mm or whatever you have) shelve pins along both edges of the oversized side. With the LR-32 a simple task, just keep in mind to register the rail from the same reference edge. Jig done.

1) Put shelve pins in two dirctly opposing holes, register the rail against these and your reference edge, drill a line of 20mm holes using every 3rd FS hole.
2) Repeat for all pairs of opposing index holes to create the final 20mm hole pattern.
3) Finally cutoff the excess containing the rows of index holes.

This should deliver a quite precise result quite quickly.

In case your top is already at size you can clamp two cutoffs with the index hole rows to two opposing sides.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 05:22 PM by Gregor »

Offline erock

  • Posts: 1254
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2016, 05:21 PM »
I knew I had pics of my brother-in-law using my LR32 making his own custom MFT.

Here are some pics....just to show the Woodpecker story stick.  You don't need a Woodpecker story stick, you can make your own sticks. 







Hope this helps.

Eric

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1422
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2016, 05:40 PM »
I agree with Gregor on all counts. The video above has redundant steps = errors.
The critical part is getting initial 90 degree. For super precise large scale work I prefer to use trammel with needle points to lay out a large 3x4x5 triangle on your sheet rather than use factory made square.
However, if you already have MFT top, just copy it with a pattern bit.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 05:48 PM by Svar »

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 458
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2016, 06:43 PM »
I'm looking for an easier solution...i.e., hire a CNC company to make one (I'd like one that is about 3' x 6').  Anyone in the Chicago area know of a company that would do this?  Ideally I'd like to have them make 5 holes (19.8mm, 19.9, 20.0, 20.1, 20.2) on a test piece and see which one fits my Parf dogs the best.

FastCap is coming out with an option to buy a 3' by 6' plywood top with 20mm holes (as well as an opening for a router).  It's the top they are offering for their Paulk workbench.  It sounds great, but my concerns would be the quality of the plywood and the sizing of the holes (as well as the $180 shipping cost...maybe they will send some to Woodcraft or Berlands House of Tools?)

Offline erock

  • Posts: 1254
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2016, 07:06 PM »
If you're planning on using the holes on a shop made MFT table for using bench dogs to referencing a rail for cuts, then the exact placement of the holes don't really matter.

What's will you be using your MFT for ?    If it's for just clamping and holding pieces in place, then the holes don't need to be dead nuts  perfectly placed.    Don't over think it.   It's a sacrificial top for a lot of guys, so at some point you may need to make a second or third top.   

Eric

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 07:30 PM »
Thinking maybe the spacing should go to 3 3/4" , now that Festool is moving to Imperial measures and all.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2016, 04:40 AM »
Thinking maybe the spacing should go to 3 3/4" , now that Festool is moving to Imperial measures and all.

Nice.

Offline AdW

  • Posts: 4
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2016, 06:34 AM »
 great accurate and efficient ideas, thanks

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 614
    • TSO Products
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2016, 09:06 AM »
I have the LR32 kit and 20mm bit, wondering if anyone has an exact method of drilling a 4x8 table top to the 96 mm grid?
Are you interested in getting the 20mm x 96mm OC top done as efficiently as possible or do you want the enjoyment of doing it yourself?
I'm asking because we are about to provide free CAD model DXF files anyone can download from our website to have the hole pattern cut locally by a commercial cabinet shop with an industrial CNC Router.
If you're interested in going the commercial route, we're prepared to help you find a suitable shop with a CNC ROuter in your area.
Let me know where you are located.
the files we will have available cover top sizes 48x96; 60x60; 36x72 and sizes to fit MFT1080;  MFT-3; MFT Kapex plus any other size having popular demand. Hope this helps
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Nick561

  • Posts: 52
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2016, 01:00 PM »
I have a CNC machine in the WPB FLorida area if anyone needs. I've made several MFSLAB style tops.  I prefer using my slab over my MFT for the size and extras I added

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2016, 08:55 PM »
I have a CNC machine in the WPB FLorida area if anyone needs. I've made several MFSLAB style tops.  I prefer using my slab over my MFT for the size and extras I added


Unless one likes making holes, the ^this^ seems like a good idea.
How much are the tops?

(The local shop wanted >$1000 to make a 4'x8' MDF top with 96-mm holes, which I drove away from without a top)

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1422
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2016, 09:32 PM »
(The local shop wanted >$1000 to make a 4'x8' MDF top with 96-mm holes, which I drove away from without a top)
They must be charging by hole size. 96mm are pretty big holes. It costs much less to make 20mm holes.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2016, 09:45 PM »
holmz - I think you just ran into a shop that's busy and has a backlog.  So, they gave you the crazy stoopid gotta have it price for which they will drop what they're doing to make you one piece.

They were politely telling you that you're not really a customer for them.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2016, 10:27 PM »
holmz - I think you just ran into a shop that's busy and has a backlog.  So, they gave you the crazy stoopid gotta have it price for which they will drop what they're doing to make you one piece.

They were politely telling you that you're not really a customer for them.

Yes I understood that... I am just trying to figure what is considered normal.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1422
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2016, 12:02 AM »
holmz - I think you just ran into a shop that's busy and has a backlog.  So, they gave you the crazy stoopid gotta have it price for which they will drop what they're doing to make you one piece.
They were politely telling you that you're not really a customer for them.
Yes I understood that... I am just trying to figure what is considered normal.
This is pretty common situation, and is exactly what will sell that Origin device to the little guy.

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1738
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2016, 08:15 AM »
I had a local guy, who was not too busy for me, quote $100 to do a full sheet of 20MM holes on 96MM centers. It was his shop minimum, and included making the file for the cuts.

Best guess, since it is a simple drawing to do, is this would have taken him an hour total if I supplied/delivered the MDF sheet.

RMW

holmz - I think you just ran into a shop that's busy and has a backlog.  So, they gave you the crazy stoopid gotta have it price for which they will drop what they're doing to make you one piece.

They were politely telling you that you're not really a customer for them.

Yes I understood that... I am just trying to figure what is considered normal.
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 269
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2016, 10:40 AM »
In Missoula Montana, I found an office furniture firm able to take Steve's purchased plan for a top, under-tool-shelf and additional top for a bench top MFT and paid $387.00. So that was for three runs..

I now have Peter's Parf Guide from Axminister and I am merrily making tops for myself as well as friends with a lower amortized cost for each one, way under being at the mercy of a busy CNC shop.

Since then, I sprung for the LR-32 system and I would probably use that if I did not have the Parf Guide system. So in sequence, if anyone intends to make tops and eventually get the LR-32 system, then go for that and make tops with it.  In his videos, Peter often shows off his parf dog wood fence and Parf dog wood blocks. The Parf Guide system is ideal for making Parf Dog fences for assembly work. He also shows how to make giant squares using the system. These is a nice bonuses.

I am going to insert one reminder about making tops.... WATCH THE WEIGHT!!!. My inch thick MDF top is a killer to move.



« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 10:42 AM by clark_fork »
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline Nick561

  • Posts: 52
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2016, 12:34 PM »
I have a CNC machine in the WPB FLorida area if anyone needs. I've made several MFSLAB style tops.  I prefer using my slab over my MFT for the size and extras I added


Unless one likes making holes, the ^this^ seems like a good idea.
How much are the tops?

(The local shop wanted >$1000 to make a 4'x8' MDF top with 96-mm holes, which I drove away from without a top)


I was thinking between $150 - $175 depending on any customizing of the file ( like I put resessed pockets in mine to hold pencils, ect...). This would include the sheet of wood.

Offline DrD

  • Posts: 408
  • I might not be fast BUT I sure am slow
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2016, 01:05 PM »
@Shane Holland

I'm coming late to this thread, so please excuse me.  Has any US-based distributor picked up Peter Parfitt's UJK Parf Guide System?  I just checked Lee Valley and could not locate it there.  Initially I believe the company for which Shane works was going to, but I believe that was put on hold.  Any help is appreciated.
KS12 EB Kapex with Delta Folding Table & FastCap Best Fence; TS75 EQ with Parallel Guide Rail Set (FS-PA 495717 & FS-PA-VL 495718) and FS 800/2, 1080/2, 1400/2 LR32, 1400/2, 1900/2 Guide Rails, and Betterly SLC23 Straight Line Connector; DF500 Q with Assortment Systainer; OF1010 EQ with Fine Adjuster for Guide Stop, WA-OF Angle Arm, UP-OF Edging Plate and SF-OF Chip Deflector (486242); OF1400 EQ with OF1400 Dust Hood x 2, OF 1400  Edge Guide x 2, OF 1400  Guide Stop; LR32 Set; PSB399 EQ; EHL65 E; RAS115.04 E; RS2 E; ETS150/3 EQ; RO150 FEQ; Hand Sanding Block Set; CT26 with assortment of AS and Non-AS Hoses; MFT/3 Table x2; SysLite; Assortment of Quick & Screw Clamps, Consumables, Dogs.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4039
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2016, 01:34 PM »
@Shane Holland

I'm coming late to this thread, so please excuse me.  Has any US-based distributor picked up Peter Parfitt's UJK Parf Guide System?  I just checked Lee Valley and could not locate it there.  Initially I believe the company for which Shane works was going to, but I believe that was put on hold.  Any help is appreciated.

Now I am just the guy who created the PGS and Axminster do the manufacturing and the marketing. They have established a really efficient export system as a result of the (quite unexpected) popularity of the system. They have also created a new production  line and workshop especially for the PGS. I am told that some people in NA have received their system within 3 days although the average is more like 5 days. Also, anyone outside Europe gets the PGS without the European sales tax (VAT) so that is an instant 20% discount.

I have avoided joining any thread to randomly push the PGS but I have to say that it is astonishingly accurate. It should be good for hundreds of custom bench tops and is probably less  than the cost of a single CNC produced MFT3 top.

The 4 cut test proves the accuracy of the PGS and I would love to see the same test applied to other methods of creating a custom bench top. I have retained all of the pieces cut in my 4 cut test video so that they can be independently inspected if required.

Peter

Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 269
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2016, 01:37 PM »
@Shane Holland

I'm coming late to this thread, so please excuse me.  Has any US-based distributor picked up Peter Parfitt's UJK Parf Guide System?  I just checked Lee Valley and could not locate it there.  Initially I believe the company for which Shane works was going to, but I believe that was put on hold.  Any help is appreciated.

The short answer is no but ordering from Axminster is just a smooth as ordering from New Jersey. I had mine in less than two weeks and there were no custom officials knocking at my door. You save VAT and that cancels out the modest shipping charge.

The only problem I had was that Peter's video persuades that the removable chuck on the Festool drill makes another purchase seem essential. So this purchase put me into ordering a Festool Drill.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-102278
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline DrD

  • Posts: 408
  • I might not be fast BUT I sure am slow
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2016, 01:48 PM »
@Peter Parfitt
@clark_fork

Thanks for the quick replies.  Actually the only experience I've had ordering from outside the US was with model train gear, and that was less than pleasant.  I'll go onto Axminister's web set and have a go.
KS12 EB Kapex with Delta Folding Table & FastCap Best Fence; TS75 EQ with Parallel Guide Rail Set (FS-PA 495717 & FS-PA-VL 495718) and FS 800/2, 1080/2, 1400/2 LR32, 1400/2, 1900/2 Guide Rails, and Betterly SLC23 Straight Line Connector; DF500 Q with Assortment Systainer; OF1010 EQ with Fine Adjuster for Guide Stop, WA-OF Angle Arm, UP-OF Edging Plate and SF-OF Chip Deflector (486242); OF1400 EQ with OF1400 Dust Hood x 2, OF 1400  Edge Guide x 2, OF 1400  Guide Stop; LR32 Set; PSB399 EQ; EHL65 E; RAS115.04 E; RS2 E; ETS150/3 EQ; RO150 FEQ; Hand Sanding Block Set; CT26 with assortment of AS and Non-AS Hoses; MFT/3 Table x2; SysLite; Assortment of Quick & Screw Clamps, Consumables, Dogs.

Offline Shane Holland

  • Festool Dealer
  • *
  • Posts: 10454
    • The Tool Nut's Festool Store
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2016, 02:28 PM »
@DrD, we tried working out a deal to import them but we're able to come to a mutually beneficial agreement.
Buy Festool Online" class="bbc_img
Fast, Free Shipping - Festool Trained Experts - Unparalleled Customer Service - No Sales Tax Collected (Outside NY/VA/KY)
Toolnut.com and FestoolProducts.com

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2016, 08:50 PM »
...
://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-102278


If you are selling yours I'll take it, otherwise I will order me one.

Offline TSO Products

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 614
    • TSO Products
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2016, 12:03 AM »
I have the LR32 kit and 20mm bit, wondering if anyone has an exact method of drilling a 4x8 table top to the 96 mm grid?
Are you interested in getting the 20mm x 96mm OC top done as efficiently as possible or do you want the enjoyment of doing it yourself?
I'm asking because we are about to provide free CAD model DXF files anyone can download from our website to have the hole pattern cut locally by a commercial cabinet shop with an industrial CNC Router.
If you're interested in going the commercial route, we're prepared to help you find a suitable shop with a CNC ROuter in your area.
Let me know where you are located.
the files we will have available cover top sizes 48x96; 60x60; 36x72 and sizes to fit MFT1080;  MFT-3; MFT Kapex plus any other size having popular demand. Hope this helps
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
We're ready to put the CAD models in DXF format along with drawings pdf's up on our website in a  new "Plans" section for free download
Following are dimension sheet sizes all with holes 20.0mm on 96mm centers"
48x96"
60x60"
36x72 "
54"x29" ***similar overall to (MFT 1080 p/n 489396)
43.4x 28.3" nominal but made to match my own MFT-3 p/n 495543 measuring 1101mm x 718mm
36.2x21.3" *** nominal similar overall to KAPEX top p/n 49554
31"x29" *** similar to MFT-800 p/n 488565

if anyone has one the *** FESTOOL products to verify the dimension  accuracy that would be helpful - PM me with your field measurements.
We hope these offerings will help some of you along with a review list of CNC shops over time who have produced satisfactory work
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2016, 01:22 AM »
... Since then, I sprung for the LR-32 system and I would probably use that if I did not have the Parf Guide system. So in sequence, if anyone intends to make tops and eventually get the LR-32 system, then go for that and make tops with it. ...

OK Brother I have another question.

What are the pointers in using the LR-32 approach?
Do one row and then do a 'normal' to that? or do you strike a normal line and use spacers to get the rail parallel and do a second row with it falling on "the normal line" (aligned on the column)?

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: 96 mm Layout for new work table
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2016, 01:23 AM »
The little guy that buys an Origin for thousands$$ because he gives up after a ridiculous quote for a top with holes drilled in it , is just lazy or ignorant, or both.

A couple of hundred bucks for a top makes everyone happy, and it's not that difficult to find a shop to do it for that.

Even Peter's gizmo is a more sensible alternative.