Author Topic: Bed Design  (Read 2265 times)

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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1842
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Bed Design
« on: July 10, 2017, 06:23 PM »
I am a amateur woodworker (senior, age wise) trying to help a young couple who have become close friends. They just bought a tiny house and have a new baby so they don't have two dimes to rub together. I agreed to make them a bed. They like the look of the Simple Bed from Kalon Studio, but can't even get remotely close to affording it. I mostly make small projects like jewelry boxes so I don't have any experience making a bed. They like quarter sawn oak. It's not as pretty as the ash Kalon uses, but they like it.

I have a very comprehensive shop with jointer, planer, both Domino machines, etc.

I'm not sure how the 4 sides are joined. I need to be able to break down the bed and assemble it at their house.
Birdhunter

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Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 732
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 06:37 PM »
sounds like the perfect excuse for the new domino connectors. it seems like youre doing them a huge favor by taking on this task. theyre on a budget but want the good oak even quarter sawn lol. vertical stacking baltic birch has a nice stylish feel to it and should be budget friendly.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Bed Design
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 06:43 PM »
I think the connectors require over 1.25" thickness. My local sources only have 4/4 lumber.
Birdhunter

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 984
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 08:42 PM »
I had never heard of Kalon beds, I had to Google them.  Wow, they are pricey for what they are!  The queen, pictured below sells for $2700.   The Domino connectors seem like a way to go, you could also go with bed bolts.  Either way you'll need to go with thicker stock than 3/4".  My motto is you can buy junk, so why would you build it?  You want them to lie in your bed with no racking whatsoever,  so 1 1/4" thick stock at a minimum.  3/4" stock for the box spring slats.  Good luck with your build, please post pictures of it here.



as a post script,  Jory Brigham uses a kind of box joint for his organic beds, this might work:


Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 308
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 08:51 PM »
It's a bit hard to see from the pictures of the original, but you'll need something on the sides to attach the box spring slats onto anyway... so... you could also glue the same stock onto the other two sides (front and back) and sink the connectors into the thicker section formed by that (and the box spring slat holders) and use smaller dominos on the vertical parts to give the corners stability - the connectors would solely function as locking with the dominos taking the shear.

Or make it a one-trick pony and glue it together in-place on-site.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:57 PM by Gregor »

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Bed Design
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 09:36 PM »
I think doing the final assembly and glue up onsite would work. I'm not sure about finding stock thicker than 4/4. The pictures I've seen of the frame seem to have a horizontal piece attached to the vertical pieces to support the slats.
Birdhunter

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 273
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 10:36 PM »
Could you not just laminate two boards together to get your desired thickness?
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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1842
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Re: Bed Design
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 05:17 AM »
I'll talk to the couple to see if the thickness is acceptable to them. A 1.5" rail makes sense to me and would allow use of the Festool fasteners.
Birdhunter

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 136
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 05:54 AM »
I think the connectors require over 1.25" thickness. My local sources only have 4/4 lumber.
It must be a sad sign of the times.  I would think that a major area like ATL would have suppliers that carried up to 8/4 rough.  I'm in MN and there are a number of vendors, but none offer a wide variety of species over 4/4 rough.  I'm pretty sure I can get a few of the popular ones beyond 4/4, but even hickory is not available beyond 4/4 rough.

I guess I would go the glue up route.  Whether you use the domino knock down connectors or not, I think the frame needs to have integrity beyond 3/4".

I applaude your generosity and good luck with your project.  Don't forget the pictures!

Chris
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 728
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 07:28 AM »
As pictured by Jim the Kalon Simple bed is a poor design for mattress support. There appears to be no under support for the slat matrix which would be crucial if making a Queen or larger type bed. Simple says it all, good does not come into play with this bed. Any chance you use Sketchup.

John

Offline hopper

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« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 08:12 AM by hopper »

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Bed Design
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 09:31 AM »
I have decided to go with two 3/4" boards glued together for the side and end pieces. The pictures kinda show a slat support affixed to the side and end pieces to form an "L". The text on the web site mentions a mid-span slat support and a 5th leg midway on that support. The slats would rest on the 4 slat supports affixed to the side and end pieces and rest on the mid-span support.

Dominos would be good to attach the slat support to the side and end pieces. Would probably use 3/4" Baltic Birch for the slat support pieces since it won't show. That would keep the cost down.

The top of the legs look inset into the side pieces. Guess I could use a router jig to hog out the inset and trim it up with a hand saw or chisel. Better ideas are very welcome.

I'll look at the Lee Valley connectors.

Birdhunter

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4520
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 11:51 AM »
As pictured by Jim the Kalon Simple bed is a poor design for mattress support. There appears to be no under support for the slat matrix which would be crucial if making a Queen or larger type bed. Simple says it all, good does not come into play with this bed. Any chance you use Sketchup.

John

There is actually a center support they leave out of the pictures, but it is in the manual. All beds over the full size mattress have this center support. Actually, just about every company does this trick, they leave  out the center support in the nice pictures, but of course its has to be there for the larger beds. If you go to the site they do mention a 5th foot for the larger beds most wont know that that is.  It doesn't really ruin the look once the mattresses is on the unit as the front and rear act as beams so no feet are required there, they only need that 5th foot in the center where it cant be seen.

This is right from the manual for their Queen size.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 11:55 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1842
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Re: Bed Design
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 11:55 AM »
How do I find the manual without buying the bed?
Birdhunter

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Bed Design
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 11:56 AM »
Here you go, a pdf for the simple bed. There isn't much to it.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4520
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2017, 12:00 PM »
Here is a very simple bed to make, not as  fancy as the Simple bed design. If you modify the design it could look quite pretty and of course 2x4 dont have to be used and the nails or fasteners dont need show , but boy it would be inexpensive. This appears to be a durable design.

There are loads of other plans here with instructions as well.

http://woodgears.ca/bed/build.html






« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 10:48 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Green Mojo

  • Posts: 31
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2017, 01:14 PM »
Birdhunter - Your profile shows you live in Atlanta. Have you been to Peach State Lumber?  Lots of good hardwood choices in various thicknesses.  Suwannee Lumber is another good option on the northeast side of town.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1842
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2017, 02:50 PM »
Thanks for the referral to Peach Lumber. I'll go look.

I'm thinking of attaching the legs to the frame with 4 Dominos each leg. Good enough?
Birdhunter

Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 732
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2017, 03:54 PM »
lots of good feed back in here! i think the best low cost solution is to ask them if they want the exposed hardware look and explain the pros and cons...easy break down and assembly just the cons of looking at hardware (some ppl enjoy the rough tough look). if not just do a domino glue up on site. I think theyre lucky to have you to give them these options esp on budget...we're not ikea. im sure you wont be making any money off of this.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1842
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2017, 04:11 PM »
The onsite glue-up is looking better all the time. No, I'm doing this pro bono. They are a sweet young couple and raising a beautiful child. The husband is a hair stylist and the wife is our Pilates instructor. They are smart about money, just don't have much of it right now. I've been very blessed in my life and it's darn satisfying to give back even as an amateur carpenter.
Birdhunter

Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 203
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2017, 05:29 PM »
I have used the Lee Valley hardware to build my bed.  It is quite robust and has handled assembly/disassembly many times now.

My bed frame is somewhat similar to your picture, although I have done away with the headboard.  The only difference is that I upholstered it.

For materials, I glued and screwed 4/4 poplar to 5/4 poplar (this created a cleat for the slats to rest on).   The legs are red oak.  I have a 2x4 for a center rail.  The slats are 1x3 pine.  It cost me maybe $150 in materials, plus the hardware.

So far, it has held up quite well for the past five years or so.  I suspect I will replace it at some point only due to a desire to change styles.

If they are a new family, they may find themselves relocating the bed sometime in the future, and having a knockdown assembly will surely make their lives easier in that case.

Best,
Adam

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3292
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2017, 06:00 PM »
You might want to look at this book on beds from Taunton Press. 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline SoonerFan

  • Posts: 309
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2017, 10:18 PM »
The onsite glue-up is looking better all the time. No, I'm doing this pro bono. They are a sweet young couple and raising a beautiful child. The husband is a hair stylist and the wife is our Pilates instructor. They are smart about money, just don't have much of it right now. I've been very blessed in my life and it's darn satisfying to give back even as an amateur carpenter.

I don't have much to add that has not already been stated by others on the bed design/build.  I do want to add good for you for helping them out.  Terrific to know there are good people like you and many on this forum still around. 

Offline chupatngy

  • Posts: 3
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2017, 09:52 AM »
If you are still in the design phase of the build check out mountainmulehardwoods on Instagram. They have some beds with a nice design that could be great for design inspiration.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1029
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2017, 02:56 PM »
@Birdhunter @Naildrivingman

I know for a fact that Peach State in Kennesaw, Suwanee Lumber, GA Hardwoods in Buford and Atlanta Hardwoods in Smyrna all carry 8/4 white oak.  They all have nice selections of other hardwoods too.

None of them are really "intown" , but they're only 20-25 miles outside.

Atlanta Hardwoods ( closest in) is part of a huge import/expot operation and can get just about anything you want to pay for.  They also carry Festool 😜

We also have Carltons Rare Woods for that stuff you just gotta have but can't find anywhere else.


Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1842
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2017, 03:07 PM »
I visited Highland Woodworking today and looked at an example of a corner joint using the Festool connector. Really neat.

I was referred to an Ebay offer of 8 corner connectors. I did order them.

I am in Carltons all the time for exotic wood. Nice people. I will order the white oak quarter sawn from Atlanta Hardwood. They deliver locally and Peach doesn't.

I've done some test pieces, legs, short rail section, etc using poplar. I've looked at videos using the mortised steel connectors and I think using the Festool connectors along with 1 or 2 Dominos would be better for me.

Thanks for all the input.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 03:15 PM by Birdhunter »
Birdhunter

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1671
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2017, 03:08 PM »
I have decided to go with two 3/4" boards glued together for the side and end pieces. The pictures kinda show a slat support affixed to the side and end pieces to form an "L". The text on the web site mentions a mid-span slat support and a 5th leg midway on that support. The slats would rest on the 4 slat supports affixed to the side and end pieces and rest on the mid-span support.

Dominos would be good to attach the slat support to the side and end pieces. Would probably use 3/4" Baltic Birch for the slat support pieces since it won't show. That would keep the cost down.

The top of the legs look inset into the side pieces. Guess I could use a router jig to hog out the inset and trim it up with a hand saw or chisel. Better ideas are very welcome.

I'll look at the Lee Valley connectors.

I know this thread is a little old already and one of the first suggestions was to use the Domino connectors, but the connectors seem really to be the answer to the type of bed shown in the pictures. They are very strong based on the demos I've seen in person and the nice thing about them is the bed would be able to be disassembled when the need arises to move it. I am thinking of making a replacement platform bed for me and that is what I plan to use if I make it. They will never come apart.
Randy

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3292
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2017, 05:31 PM »
I am thinking of making a replacement platform bed for me and that is what I plan to use if I make it. They will never come apart.

Many years ago I bought a really great platform bed and had the base split length-wise and the platform split cross-wise to make it easier to move.  It has served me very well over the years, and the break-down feature has made it very easy to move every time I have relocated. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1029
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2017, 07:44 PM »
Birdhunter - I'd run over there and pick out the boards myself.

They get some crappy boards in there from time to time and they always get "delivered" to someone.  You want that to be you ?  Unless you're ordering more than enough to cull through them.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1842
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Bed Design
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2017, 08:59 PM »
Thanks. I will select all the boards personally. I'm hoping my young friend can borrow a pickup so I don't have to pay for delivery.
Birdhunter