Author Topic: Deck & planter boxes  (Read 2314 times)

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Offline Cealan

  • Posts: 40
Deck & planter boxes
« on: August 09, 2017, 03:31 AM »
Pictures of this deck & planter boxes I completed today. 5 weeks work & happy with the result. One of the easier & fun project [emoji1][emoji106]
Own TSC track saw, REQ track saw, BHC drill, 1010 router, 850 planer, sander, mft,guide rails& clamps

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Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2557
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 04:04 AM »
Great work here, and attention to detail such as mitred corners. I know you and yours will enjoy this new addition for many years to come given the apparent quality of effort that you have put  into this project.
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“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
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Offline Cealan

  • Posts: 40
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2017, 04:47 AM »
Great work here, and attention to detail such as mitred corners. I know you and yours will enjoy this new addition for many years to come given the apparent quality of effort that you have put  into this project.
Cheers for your kind words [emoji106]
Own TSC track saw, REQ track saw, BHC drill, 1010 router, 850 planer, sander, mft,guide rails& clamps

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1951
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 05:11 AM »
Very nice work!

Ground looks swampy. What did you do to keep the wood out of the water? Footings?

What type of wood did you use? How did you finish the wood?
Birdhunter

Offline Cealan

  • Posts: 40
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 06:02 AM »
Very nice work!

Ground looks swampy. What did you do to keep the wood out of the water? Footings?

What type of wood did you use? How did you finish the wood?
Cheers for nice comments, ground was fine just after pouring all the concrete around 8 cube it rained solid for 3 days, so after i put 3 cube of ap40 + some sand to help soak it up. Piles/footings then bearers run across then joists horizontal so its solid & should stand a decent shake in chch. Kwila is the decking Australian timber and it bleeds terribly so needs time to settle before being coated, its just wet
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Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3532
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2017, 07:23 AM »
A fine job as far as craftsmanship and a terrific finished appearance. You really paid attention to details in that respect. I think your choice of exposed lumber was a good one.

I see no signs that any of the framing was flashed to the house.  No protection to base of any of the posts where contacted with earth.(and water)  The grading should have been improved before posts were added or water will always be a problem. I don't have any suggestions for how to fix, so I can only hope that I am totally wrong here.
Tinker

Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Cealan

  • Posts: 40
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2017, 02:49 PM »
A fine job as far as craftsmanship and a terrific finished appearance. You really paid attention to details in that respect. I think your choice of exposed lumber was a good one.

I see no signs that any of the framing was flashed to the house.  No protection to base of any of the posts where contacted with earth.(and water)  The grading should have been improved before posts were added or water will always be a problem. I don't have any suggestions for how to fix, so I can only hope that I am totally wrong here.
Tinker
Cheers
Its all anchored off the foundation with bolts & concrete screws to the house site. There is no need for flashings as its connected to the foundation & is free standing of the weatherboard. Posts are H5 graded & joists H3. The water looks red cause the kwila decking timber bleeds fierce ( natural oil in it).Then 3 cube of ap40 & sand was added to soak up the area & have a fall to a drain at the back.
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Offline VW MICK

  • Posts: 843
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2017, 02:55 PM »
Nice job

I really like that

Can we see some more pictures when it's planted

 Mick

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
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Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2017, 04:20 PM »
This would never, ever pass inspection in the USA(not in the 5 states I have lived anyhow), not even a small chance. I am not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

It's gorgeous yeah, but I wouldn't build my deck that way. Building over 500 decks in my life and running a crew that built outdoor living structures for another 10 years I know a little about it.

I guess in Ireland things are different. It looks great and isn't going to fall down that's for sure, regretfully in the USA that's not enough.

And for most woodworkers in the USA that wood is more well know as Merbau, it's nice wood and I use it often. It is way harder than say White Oak and doesn't move that much either. That's an awful nice amount  we can't really get in the US very easily. I know a guy in New Zealand that has it on his deck and other than making everything red(concrete etc) it's holding up very, very well.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 04:28 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Cealan

  • Posts: 40
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2017, 04:32 PM »
This would never, ever pass inspection in the USA(not in the 5 states I have lived anyhow), not even a small chance. I am not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

It's gorgeous yeah, but I wouldn't build my deck that way. Building over 500 decks in my life and running a crew that built outdoor living structures for another 10 years I know a little about it.

I guess in Ireland things are different. It looks great and isn't going to fall down that's for sure, regretfully in the USA that's not enough.

And for most woodworkers in the USA that wood is more well know as Merbau, it's nice wood and I use it often. It is way harder than say White Oak and doesn't move that much either. That's an awful nice amount  we can't really get in the US very easily. I know a guy in New Zealand that has it on his deck and other than making everything red(concrete etc) it's holding up very, very well.
Fair enough sorry mate I couldn't meet your high standards, different regulations in different countries i have learned & this is in new zealand
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Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
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Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2017, 05:33 PM »
This would never, ever pass inspection in the USA(not in the 5 states I have lived anyhow), not even a small chance. I am not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

It's gorgeous yeah, but I wouldn't build my deck that way. Building over 500 decks in my life and running a crew that built outdoor living structures for another 10 years I know a little about it.

I guess in Ireland things are different. It looks great and isn't going to fall down that's for sure, regretfully in the USA that's not enough.

And for most woodworkers in the USA that wood is more well know as Merbau, it's nice wood and I use it often. It is way harder than say White Oak and doesn't move that much either. That's an awful nice amount  we can't really get in the US very easily. I know a guy in New Zealand that has it on his deck and other than making everything red(concrete etc) it's holding up very, very well.
Fair enough sorry mate I couldn't meet your high standards, different regulations in different countries i have learned & this is in new zealand

Not that they are only my standards at all, but general building practices we are taught and must adhere to in most places in the US. As I said this appear to be well built and in my estimation isn't ever going to fall down. I am not bad mouthing your carpentry, but the site preparation just isn't how we do it and after years of building decks what I now think is correct, take it or leave it. It's just my opinion and really has no bearing on the quality of your deck itself which appears very, very nice.

I almost didn't post I hate to say anything about anyone's work at all, especially when it look so good. But for the guys in the USA they need know to check with their county on whether or not they need the type site prep I am talking about. Most likely if it 32" or less tall(maybe some other height, 24" etc)they will need some type of gravel under the deck. With 50 states and some of them having upward of 100 plus counties that all can have their own set of standards it's worth a call. Many county building departments have booklets for homeowner building their own decks as well.

I can't see in the holes or trench from the pictures so I can not comment at all on whats holding up this free standing deck.

For what I can see and is  my issue is the drainage underneath. Sand just doesn't work. Years of using sand has proven that much to me. Here in the US we would have to make sure that dirt grade under the deck could form no puddles, meaning flat and away from home even if ever so slightly as you do no have much room for a slant away from your home. Then gravel(in some places plastic under gravel is required), a number 5 stone or pea gravel to be place under and again sloped away from home. So then when a down pour happens there would be zero puddles.

This is an absolute requirement in most of the US and when our inspectors come out to check the depth pf the concrete footings(around here 42" in some states less deep, other places deeper) if they don't see the dirt graded flat and smooth and then the gravel the same they simply won't let us proceed with the build. And when we do frame before the inspectors get there they literally would make us remove the deck boards(if we got that far ahead) and crawl under the deck smooth the grade and hand dump gravel between the joists until it was right. Now as a youngster I thought what a crock and waste of time, but after years and years of seeing what happens to decks I absolutely see those inspectors were 100% correct in wanting this from us.

Now I live in  a house where this was not done on about half the deck and another where there is stone and there was a huge difference in the appearance of the framing and deck boards where the pea gravel was used and was not used. It was night and day to the point the top of the deck boards themselves  looked different and act different. No pea gravel, soft and spongy and grow mold within 12 months of being cleaned off. Where there is pea gravel the boards appeared much newer 20 years later, not spongy and no mold grows at all on them. And of course the framing where there is no pea gravel is even worse. The framing where pea gravel was used appears newer and this again is 20 years old, where there is no gravel the framing is going to have to be replaced(we are doing a huge inside our renovation now). This is all green  treated material. I thought the deck was actually built at two different times, nope the original plans and permits prove it was all one job. Back then it seems gravel wasn't a requirement.

Other than this site preparation your work looks so very nice, the carpentry looks perfect to my eye.  But as for the preparing of the site I am simply amazed that the difference could be so vastly different. We simply can't and IMHO should not build over dirt like that unless the deck is much higher off the ground.

Will any of this matter, probably not I have seen deck not nearly nice as your last 30 years before we knocked them down. It may add to you having to maintain your decking more though.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 06:45 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Cealan

  • Posts: 40
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2017, 07:11 PM »
This would never, ever pass inspection in the USA(not in the 5 states I have lived anyhow), not even a small chance. I am not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

It's gorgeous yeah, but I wouldn't build my deck that way. Building over 500 decks in my life and running a crew that built outdoor living structures for another 10 years I know a little about it.

I guess in Ireland things are different. It looks great and isn't going to fall down that's for sure, regretfully in the USA that's not enough.

And for most woodworkers in the USA that wood is more well know as Merbau, it's nice wood and I use it often. It is way harder than say White Oak and doesn't move that much either. That's an awful nice amount  we can't really get in the US very easily. I know a guy in New Zealand that has it on his deck and other than making everything red(concrete etc) it's holding up very, very well.
Fair enough sorry mate I couldn't meet your high standards, different regulations in different countries i have learned & this is in new zealand

Not that they are only my standards at all, but general building practices we are taught and must adhere to in most places in the US. As I said this appear to be well built and in my estimation isn't ever going to fall down. I am not bad mouthing your carpentry, but the site preparation just isn't how we do it and after years of building decks what I now think is correct, take it or leave it. It's just my opinion and really has no bearing on the quality of your deck itself which appears very, very nice.

I almost didn't post I hate to say anything about anyone's work at all, especially when it look so good. But for the guys in the USA they need know to check with their county on whether or not they need the type site prep I am talking about. Most likely if it 32" or less tall(maybe some other height, 24" etc)they will need some type of gravel under the deck. With 50 states and some of them having upward of 100 plus counties that all can have their own set of standards it's worth a call. Many county building departments have booklets for homeowner building their own decks as well.

I can't see in the holes or trench from the pictures so I can not comment at all on whats holding up this free standing deck.

For what I can see and is  my issue is the drainage underneath. Sand just doesn't work. Years of using sand has proven that much to me. Here in the US we would have to make sure that dirt grade under the deck could form no puddles, meaning flat and away from home even if ever so slightly as you do no have much room for a slant away from your home. Then gravel(in some places plastic under gravel is required), a number 5 stone or pea gravel to be place under and again sloped away from home. So then when a down pour happens there would be zero puddles.

This is an absolute requirement in most of the US and when our inspectors come out to check the depth pf the concrete footings(around here 42" in some states less deep, other places deeper) if they don't see the dirt graded flat and smooth and then the gravel the same they simply won't let us proceed with the build. And when we do frame before the inspectors get there they literally would make us remove the deck boards(if we got that far ahead) and crawl under the deck smooth the grade and hand dump gravel between the joists until it was right. Now as a youngster I thought what a crock and waste of time, but after years and years of seeing what happens to decks I absolutely see those inspectors were 100% correct in wanting this from us.

Now I live in  a house where this was not done on about half the deck and another where there is stone and there was a huge difference in the appearance of the framing and deck boards where the pea gravel was used and was not used. It was night and day to the point the top of the deck boards themselves  looked different and act different. No pea gravel, soft and spongy and grow mold within 12 months of being cleaned off. Where there is pea gravel the boards appeared much newer 20 years later, not spongy and no mold grows at all on them. And of course the framing where there is no pea gravel is even worse. The framing where pea gravel was used appears newer and this again is 20 years old, where there is no gravel the framing is going to have to be replaced(we are doing a huge inside our renovation now). This is all green  treated material. I thought the deck was actually built at two different times, nope the original plans and permits prove it was all one job. Back then it seems gravel wasn't a requirement.

Other than this site preparation your work looks so very nice, the carpentry looks perfect to my eye.  But as for the preparing of the site I am simply amazed that the difference could be so vastly different. We simply can't and IMHO should not build over dirt like that unless the deck is much higher off the ground.

Will any of this matter, probably not I have seen deck not nearly nice as your last 30 years before we knocked them down. It may add to you having to maintain your decking more though.
You covered it all there, nice to hear from your experience, always interesting to get opinions. It rained a months rain in two days in those pictures so it looks worse than it is &after theres 8 cube of concrete in it & drains to the back with a rough fall with plenty of ap40 (4cube)I get what your saying & understand & it will definitely hold & take a decent earthquake
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Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 773
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 08:28 PM »
great work!
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

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Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2557
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2017, 09:20 PM »
Leaving aside the great project at hand, the question of inspection and codes is interesting. Codes differ country to country and region to region based on climate, topography, soil and soil substructure, historical practice, available materials etc.,.  Hence here on the FOG one at times sees projects that are perfectly acceptable say in regions of NA but  would not pass muster where I live. And visa versa.

One example of this is open riser staircases. Here the riser gap must not be greater than a 125mm dia. sphere [ie a toddlers head],yet on the FOG and television shows such as GrandDesigns, one at times sees a range of apparent riser gaps on open riser stairs.

Another example; is the substructure of this deck as  @Cealan appears to have used 140x45mm timber, hopefully treated, that has been laminated together to make the bearers. My enginineer and building inspector  allowed 90X45 laminated treated pine as bearers for our decks. The joists are 140X45mm. The stumps however are closer than seems to be the case with Cealan's deck.


Looking at the pictures, I didn't think the neighbouring environment was Ireland. I was thinking Northern Coastal Tasmania, which shares some close latitudes with NZ.  [smile]

_________

Re Merbu. It may have been sourced  from Australia but is in fact SEAsian Rainforrest timber. In purchasing it one should ensure it has certificates of having been milled from re-growth/sustainable forrests.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 10:35 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
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Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3532
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2017, 03:51 AM »
What Dovetail 65 is saying is what I was thinking. I have been out of construction biz for over 30 years now. Codes, I supect, are, as Dovetail 65 points out, are very different acording to where one builds. I, personally, would never place support posts into the ground no matter how it was graded. My uncle used to tell me that "Water will run uphill thru a stick."  There are other points of concern to the deck, so I hope all goes well and hopefully I am wrong in my observations.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1951
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2017, 05:45 AM »
I am winching now thinking about my first deck compared to the OP's beautiful work.

I had never built anything big, the Internet had not yet been ""invented" by Al Gore, and I didn't have any help.

I knew that I needed footings and termite resistant wood.

I laid out the footings, mixed Sackcrete in a large bucket, and poured the footings. Somehow, I had mismeasured on two footings. I had to dig them out and pour two more. I can't remember how I got the wood to the house as my only car was an Austin Healey Sprite, a two-seater you wore rather than sat in.

The wood I could afford was red cedar. I don't remember surfacing it in any way so it must have arrived planed and ready to nail in. I do remember having to fight mightily with some of the warped boards to get them into place for nailing.

I don't think the deck would have met code even in Dog Patch inspected by a blind inspector. But, I enjoyed many an adult beverage on the deck over the next 5 years I lived there.

It was my first and last deck. The next deck was built by professionals. Their only mistake was building the deck with one of out cats inside the enclosed deck. That's another story.
Birdhunter

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3532
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2017, 04:31 AM »
I am winching now thinking about my first deck compared to the OP's beautiful work.

I had never built anything big, the Internet had not yet been ""invented" by Al Gore, and I didn't have any help.

I knew that I needed footings and termite resistant wood.

I laid out the footings, mixed Sackcrete in a large bucket, and poured the footings. Somehow, I had mismeasured on two footings. I had to dig them out and pour two more. I can't remember how I got the wood to the house as my only car was an Austin Healey Sprite, a two-seater you wore rather than sat in.

The wood I could afford was red cedar. I don't remember surfacing it in any way so it must have arrived planed and ready to nail in. I do remember having to fight mightily with some of the warped boards to get them into place for nailing.

I don't think the deck would have met code even in Dog Patch inspected by a blind inspector. But, I enjoyed many an adult beverage on the deck over the next 5 years I lived there.

It was my first and last deck. The next deck was built by professionals. Their only mistake was building the deck with one of out cats inside the enclosed deck. That's another story.

@Birdhunter, I got a good laugh over that story. I assume the cat was rescued.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2017, 05:04 AM »
@Cealan I am perplexed...

Q: Are you in Ireland? (It looks like a fine summer's day...)
Q: They actually import Merabu into Ireland?

How does it compare to ipe?

Q: Do you put an oil or varnish on it? or any "protection"?

Q: Being in Australia and a deck on the horizon, these are questions that are important.

Q: How does the Boss like it?

Mate - it looks like an improvement and nice project.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1951
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Deck & planter boxes --- cat rescue
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2017, 05:29 AM »
The deck was built. The workmen gone. It was a beautiful evening and time to enjoy an adult beverage on our new deck. But, no cat. As we sipped our drinks, the thought occurred to me that the darn cat might be enclosed under the deck. I went down into the basement and peered into the darkness under the deck through two windows that now looked into the underside of the deck. Nothing. I retrieved a strong flashlight and looked again. Two bright eyes gleamed at the far corner of the deck. My wife opened a can of tuna and started coaxing toward the window. Once the cat had its nose in the tuna, I reached in and grabbed the darn cat by the nape. I convinced my wife that I didn't require stitches although my hand and forearm looked like a blind person was practicing mummification. She had her cat and that was all that counted.
Birdhunter

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3532
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2017, 01:11 PM »
@Birdhunter  When I was lving on my unckle's farm, I had chores to be done out in and around the barn every afternoon when I got home from school.  We, by necessity, always had several cats. On of the cats took a special liking to me.  Every afternoon, my chore in the winter was  to go up into the loft and throw hay don to the main floor for my uncle to distribute among the milking herd.  As I approached the ladder to the loft, "my" cat would climb up ahead of me annd drop down onto my shoulder as I rached the top of the ladder.  That cat would sound like a John Dere tractor as she walked back and forth from one shoulder and back as I was dragging forkfuls of hay to the chute. Even as i climbed back down the ladder, the cat continued his friendly and trusting tip back and forth across my shoulders. When i finally got down into the barn below, i would help with the milking.  At that tim, i had to dposit "my" cat onto the floor.  She would always hang around until I gave her a couple of squirts of milk.

One day the cat did not appear. I looked high and low for several days, still no cat.  After about a week, the water in the house started tasting a little funny. Well, not really funny, but more like a little rotten. We investigated the well and there was "my" little pal floating.

I liked the end of your story much better.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1951
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Deck & planter boxes
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2017, 02:39 PM »
Sad ending.
Birdhunter

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: Deck & planter boxes --- cat rescue
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2017, 03:18 AM »
... I reached in and grabbed the darn cat by the nape.
...

Don't grab the darn cat.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2557
Re: Deck & planter boxes - another deck/cat story
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 03:28 AM »
Cats and Decks

I am currently completing a deck extension with cascading steps off one corner. There is Merbu rescently installed on the deck, except for one section, leaving a 180mm gap along the joists. This gap is approx. 2000mm  above ground level.

So last week from the breakfast table we see two ginger ears emerge. There is a long pause as the top of a head appears, a longer pause and obvious struggling for a few mins. Then 'Ginger' the neighbors huge Tom gets his shoulders through, hanging as if doing press ups, the head turns almost 360 degrees checking out possible threats and then the body mass and hind legs appear. Total time around three minutes. [smile]
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values