Festool Owners Group

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Member Projects => Topic started by: buckeyeguy on November 05, 2017, 05:39 PM

Title: Dominos in Cutting board?
Post by: buckeyeguy on November 05, 2017, 05:39 PM
Making an end grain cutting board for someone I work with. Getting ready for the end grain glue up and it measures 11.5" W x 18.5
"L x 2"T. I have never had the best luck in producing flat glue ups and was thinking about using my Domino 500 to assist in getting as flat as possible to eliminate as much sanding as possible. Has anyone ever used them for an end grain board? Was not sure about how it would hold up over time since you are introducing another grain direction with the Domino and the added swelling of it.
Title: Re: Dominos in Cutting board?
Post by: jacko9 on November 05, 2017, 05:58 PM
I wouldn't use Dominos as alignment aids because you're just introducing another flaw into the overall design since you won't get a good glue joint.  If you are having problems with the size of the glue up and alignment, why don't you do it in stages?  You can also set up two perpendicular boards to help keep your glue up square.
Title: Re: Dominos in Cutting board?
Post by: buckeyeguy on November 05, 2017, 06:26 PM
Kinda what I was thinking.

The main issue I get when gluing cutting boards up is the high and low boards, where every second, third or fourth board is higher or lower than the next. Not too much issue with keeping them "squarish", more getting a flat glue up. My method has been placing wax paper on my MFT, putting down my four parallel clamps, and then do my glue up. I've tried culls with no good results.

I have thought about just placing two scraps of the same height down on my MFT over some wax paper (same direction as my clamps go) spread the glue and just start aligning them on too of the scraps. When I'm done applying glue and they are all aligned, bring my clamps to the MFT and clamping them with the jaws facing the MFT.

I think where it goes south on me is when I move my clamping jaws into place to start tightening.
Title: Re: Dominos in Cutting board?
Post by: jacko9 on November 05, 2017, 07:06 PM
What adhesive are you using?  It seems that you might need more assembly time to get everything aligned.  Plastic resin glue has a very long open assembly time in the 20 to 40 minute range.  I have used this kind of glue on cutting boards in the past and if I discount the cutting board my sister put in the dishwasher, I have never had a glue failure.

http://www.dap.com/dap-products-ph/weldwood-plastic-resin-glue/

I like using wax paper and you might be able to get parchment paper at Costco that is wider than the narrow wax paper rolls.

I was alluding to earlier that you clamp down two perpendicular backing boards then use your cauls against these fixed 90 degree stops.  You build you assembly then clamp the remaining two sides (I like Bessey K body Revo clamps).

Good luck
Title: Re: Dominos in Cutting board?
Post by: bnaboatbuilder on November 05, 2017, 09:52 PM
Dominos are not needed. People have been making end grain boards by the millions with just glue and clamps. But if you are having issues of getting flat boards, then you should use cauls. It's my main method every time. Wood or metal cauls both work great. Good explanation on making wood cauls: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodnews/2010april/cauls.html

I use those and box aluminum tubing and get perfectly boards from normal size cutting boards up to 3x4 ft ones I make. I also clamp at every end junction between pieces so nothing slips or moves out of flat.

An end grain board is simply a double process of making a board, cutting it and gluing again to make a board again. Edge grain, end grain doesn't matter. Ensure flatness at glue up. Titebond II, III, original Gorilla, all work fine, plenty of working time.

(https://i.imgur.com/cBLU24Q.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ehmxPWU.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MWBIlgv.jpg)

I also use large pipe clamps as the cauls themselves by alternating top to bottom.

(https://i.imgur.com/ouEzvYn.jpg)
Title: Re: Dominos in Cutting board?
Post by: Bert Vanderveen on November 06, 2017, 06:58 AM
If you have problems keeping the glue up flat the strips may not be really square (eg have sides that are parallel, but not square in relation to each other — in other words: skewed). I experienced this and discovered that the saw was slightly off. Now I double check it whenever I am cutting strips for boards.
Title: Re: Dominos in Cutting board?
Post by: HowardH on November 09, 2017, 11:34 AM
Dominos are not needed. People have been making end grain boards by the millions with just glue and clamps. But if you are having issues of getting flat boards, then you should use cauls. It's my main method every time. Wood or metal cauls both work great. Good explanation on making wood cauls: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodnews/2010april/cauls.html

+1. Cauls work great.  Also, alternating the clamps from the top and bottom will help too.
Title: Re: Dominos in Cutting board?
Post by: buckeyeguy on December 09, 2017, 12:43 PM
Sorry I just abandoned this post. I have not had good luck with using cauls in the past. They have helped me once or twice, but more for glue ups with wider boards. Again, I am 100% sure it is the user not the equipment. Glue ups have been slowly getting better and better the more I do them (practice makes better).

For this board I did use the DF500 on the edge grain glue up. It did help with obtaining a fairly flat glue up. I put one on each end of each slat and I marked where the dominos were on the board ends. When I started making my next round of cuts, i just cut shy of the domino and discarded the domino ends. There was some extra waste by doing it, but I wanted to give it a try as an experiment.

To get my end grain board, I attempted to do it in 2 glue ups. I did NOT USE DOMINOS. This was not successful as my joining ends were not parallel to each other. Part of what I believe is the problem, is I am using 48" parallel clamps to clamp 12" or so of material. Thats a lot going on for my current skill and doing it all on the MFT. I'm thinking about getting some smaller clamps to make smaller glue ups more manageable in the future. I had the included support feet on them, but they wanted to keep unclipping. I may make my own rail supports for them with some scrap. By the way, I did check for square on my TS55 and it is dead on. Thanks for the suggestion.

The two end grain board halves I ended up with were probably the most flat I have had yet. They were flat enough I was able to get them flattened out with some 40 grit on my Pro5. After doing that I made the decision to make a Router sled for flattening in the very  near future.