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Author Topic: Hand railing: How hard can it be?  (Read 11894 times)

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Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 835
Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« on: April 19, 2013, 09:32 AM »
When I first heard about this project my creative juices and yearning for a new challenge peaked.
Now I wish I was not so enthusiastic.

I am posting this, not as a Festool made project, although my Festool’s were a huge help in areas of the work ( the MFT3 really came to the fore while on site and made my life so much easier), but as a success clutched, desperately, from the jaws of defeat and incompetence.

From the architects drawings the main staircase of marble over a cast concrete substrate with bespoke metal balustrade with a steel base rail supported on cast Fleur de Lys and a smaller top (fixing) rail, to which a black walnut handrail would, flowing gracefully upwards to the landing newels, be attached.
Sounds good eh!

Six weeks after we were supposed to start we visited the site to survey/template etc the steel works. They were still not completed.



We returned later......
 What had been installed was just plain wrong!



I had a discussion with the site agent and the metal guys and it became apparent that the agent was lost and the steel guys had no clue as to what was expected or how to do it. I tried to explain that the required curves are only circular sections on plan but are, in fact, elliptical in nature, due to the rake of the stair. They are, for example, what you would get if you sliced a pipe at the same angle as the rake.
I knew I was on a lost cause when the main metal guy said “now you’re just being technical”
A further meeting was arranged at which I was told in no uncertain terms that the metalwork already installed could or would not be redone and I would have to work to it. So I set about doing a complete survey of the stair and the scale of the problem became greater with alarming clarity.

The stair is supposed to be mirrored from the centre line of the ground floor to landing fantailed section and split left and right to a windered section to the gallery landing.
It is not.

The rise and going vary and either side do not marry up, neither do the curves on plan or even where the stair meets the first landing and turns left or right.
The stone work is not accurate...big time!

The holes for the steel rods, which are epoxy grouted to the stone/concrete, to which the 50x10mm base rail is welded are at best measured off the stone but with no setting out for the straight runs of handrail being 90° to one another. Thus compounding the inaccuracies.

Add to this that the top fixing rail on the straight runs varied in both height from riser line and in pitch, while the lower curves to the volutes have the look of a scenic railway (a tame roller coaster).



















When it came to the part done upper section between gallery landing newel and upper straight section, I’m afraid I lost the plot a bit.....
“ I think I can get over the rest but I am not even going to think about putting my name to that!!!”



It was a few days later that I was on site and the architect pitched up to discuss that point with the metal guys....

MG “well it follows the stair”
Arch “ but it’s wrong!”
MG “it follows the curve though”
Arch “ not quite, and the pitch is wrong, it looks wrong! ...er Rob? Have you got a moment?”

After a discussion, in which I re-iterated my previous point about tubes sliced thru’, it was agreed that I would rough out the handrail and they would get a blacksmith friend shape the metal to suit!

The day I handed over the handrail sections, in the square with groove formed for the fixing rail, I, with witnesses said “don’t let him burn the heck out of them or get them wet, ‘cos that’s the two things they’re prone to do!”
Guess what.

Not only that but the flipping metal did not actually match the groove and a whole half day was spent with me babysitting their attempts to grind, heat, twist and  clamp the metal into submission...using my Festool clamps!



When it was finally done I asked them to not alter the shape or plane of the metal when they installed the 25mm square balusters. I should have saved my breath.
Now, I know from experience that metal will tend to twist and warp when welded, that is a given and to be expected....but to raise and bend the top fixing rail plus or minus 15mm from what was a reasonable fit to the handrail beggars belief!















I am not joking when I say that I had panic attacks on the 64 mile drive to the site several times and here’s why.

When the job first came in I was sub-contracting to a guy I class as a friend, he asked me “if we get the job will you stay around and see it through?”
I made a promise to do so, “even if I win the lottery, mate”, because a prestigious project like this is rare these days and I enjoy working with him.  On paper it also looked like an achievable challenge. It should have been a win-win project.

Instead I found myself phoning the boss with problem after problem each day, which in itself is a major downer. I am a solution orientated person but each call meant a solution that was going to cost both time and money to him, I felt like a heel, like I was letting him down.

At this point I’d like to show some work in progress pics as you will see the amount of work that goes into it. We start with roughing out volutes and curved sections and form a section of rail that is “square” but curved and twisted to flow up and around the curves of the stair.







The roughing out is done on the band saw, then cleaned up with spoke shaves to the lines produced from a section I printed out from my CAD drawings.
These drawings are known as “Tangents” and are the means for supplying the required twist in the curve. The curve is of course the plan view of the railing and the tangent geometry will indicate how thick the board needs to be.
In the pic below you can see the result of a board cut to the curve and the section of straight hand rail screwed to it aligned to the tangent.



Where the rail has been squared to the tangents to get the twist-







Trial fit before moulding,





This pic probably demonstrates how hard the job was....





The handrails had to be altered yet again to suit the metal, breaking the glue joints and altering the angle of the sections re-gluing, shaping or changing sections. Some of this was done on site and my MFT3 and its new buddy the leg vice really came to the fore.





I had some cork sanding blocks screwed to the jaws to assist holding the shaped components.
To overcome some of the problems the groove in the underside of the hand railing was made wider than the fixing rail and in places I trenched it deeper, by hand, to accommodate the undulations. Each cover fillet, the wooden piece on the underside that fills the space between balusters and hides the fixing rail had to be individually made to suit in curve, width and thickness in an attempt to make it “look right”.







The end result doesn’t look too bad I suppose but I see every compromise in there.











I have to say that huge thanks go out to 3 guys that worked with me on this project,

Baz: For his sterling work in helping to hand carve/mould some of the curved parts, a much quicker carver than I. He is also a great sounding board to bounce ideas off and nice fella to know.

Young Tom: For his assistance during some of the fitting, for being up at stupid o’clock for the drive up and his humour even when on that seemingly endless sanding routine! A hard worker and cool guy.

“Magic” Johnson: Everyone calls him “Magic”, I think he told me his real name once! Again a top bloke to work with, we did some other installs on this site together and he helped me with the complete survey. Magic has since moved to Australia...a bit extreme but I know how he feels!

Then of course my Boss: Daz, throughout my “consults” (that’s arguments) with the metal guys, project management (an oxymoron if ever!) and sensible architect, he had my back, he listened to what I said and acted on it, he believed in me when I was doubting myself and about to walk away from the job and my promise.........and I never break a promise.

For those that read this far, my sincerest thanks.
I learnt a lot from this project, not just about the craft I love but about myself too.

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline dicktill

  • Posts: 216
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 10:31 AM »
WOW!!!!! [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]

Great job, ESPECIALLY considering what you had to work with.

Offline PaulMarcel

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 01:27 PM »
That was a crazy amount of work for you to do.  The metal guys looked like they violated that poor handrail trying to fix it.

I liked the leg vise; very nice.

I know you see all the 'flaws', but I don't see any! But it's the same for everything we build.

Excellent build and documentation
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Offline chelseaboy

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2013, 01:33 PM »
Brilliant job there ROB, id of shat my pants  [embarassed]

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2013, 01:40 PM »
Rob:
Great post, thanks for taking the time to document this. It looks good, considering.
I don't understand how "wacked" that metal work got, but I have never done a project like this so I can only appreciate similar ones that actually go well.

Tim
I bought some Festools...

Offline galwaydude18

  • Posts: 703
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2013, 02:06 PM »
Jesus that is amazing work  [eek] You really showed your skills off and patience as well  [eek]

Offline bellchippy

  • Posts: 173
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2013, 02:35 PM »
Having to follow the metalwork makes a fun job into a nightmare, a great end result well done.

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 1167
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 06:35 PM »
Excellent recovery from what the metal workers left you to work with.

I can't think in those virtual spaces.  Amazed at how you constructed those through the twists and turns!

neil

Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 06:51 PM »
 [eek]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing.

Takes a real master to know how to do this, and having a little insight into your process is inspiring.

Christopher

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 835
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 04:44 AM »
Thank you for your comments guys, very much appreciated. [smile]

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 5908
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 07:53 AM »
Nice work!! 

Glad you stuck at it and got it done.  To be honest I don't think I could off looking at that metal work how battered it looked it would of wound me up big time especially because it takes alot of time and skill to do curved twisted handrail to feel like your compromising your quality of work because of some one else.

I would love to try and learn to do a twisted handrail some time never done it before.  Takes some
Skill!!
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Offline Eli

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2013, 08:17 AM »
Well done. The hundreds of times a hand rides that rail will never appreciate the work that went into it.
I'm amazed you were able to make chicken salad out of that chicken$hit steel work.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline festooltim

  • Posts: 318
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 08:26 AM »
WOW that is some handrail. I enjoy doing stairs and handrails. But they don't come along everyday. I commend you for taking on such a task, I'am sure it looked great when you where done. Despite the lack of other people's understanding of the job at hand.     This can be a tough business, some days you think everyone working around you is totally incompetent and then then their are the days I wonder what I was thinking when I did that. It's a good thing I work alone so when I cuss myself out for being so stupid their is no one around to hear it. Thanks for sharing and the pictures.
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Offline Wooden Lungs

  • Posts: 165
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2013, 07:28 PM »
Well you overcame the metal work issues and you conquered that handrail. I am so impressed with your work. Well done. If it had of been easy it would have been boring...right? Thanks for posting.
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Offline rrmccabe

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2013, 08:18 PM »
I am speechless !

Very nice.
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Offline BMH

  • Posts: 295
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2013, 10:39 AM »
Truly amazing woodworking and great documentation of the challenge of following poor workmanship.

Offline jonny round boy

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2013, 12:22 PM »
Brilliant job there ROB, id of shat my pants  [embarassed]

Ditto!

Well done Rob - I wouldn't have a clue where to even start with a  basic curved handrail, let alone something like that!
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Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2013, 12:25 PM »
Brilliant job there ROB, id of shat my pants  [embarassed]

Ditto!

Well done Rob - I wouldn't have a clue where to even start with a  basic curved handrail, let alone something like that!

+1!
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Online CarolinaNomad

  • Posts: 250
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2013, 01:11 PM »
Great job both in your craft and documentation!  Thoroughly enjoyed reading it and seeing the pics.

I couldn't have followed a curved handrail, but to add the difficulty of the incompetent steel guy. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 01:13 PM by CarolinaNomad »

Offline bellchippy

  • Posts: 173
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2013, 02:00 PM »
Can you share some of the setting out, that would be interesting.

Offline Rob-GB

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 12:54 AM »
Can you share some of the setting out, that would be interesting.

I will look at my cad drawings and see if I can work them into some sort of how to.
In theory I should only have done working drawings for one side and just flipped them to get the other handing.
As nothing on site was now geometrically based, my geometry based plans had to be constantly fudged to make things work.

Thanks again for all the interest shown.

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline mattfc

  • Posts: 520
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 09:33 AM »
Brilliant job.. must have been a bloody nightmare, probably wouldn't have been much harder to whittle a walnut tree with a pen knife!

Out of interest, did you look at anything like laser point cloud surveys and then CNC'ing?

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 835
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2013, 01:06 PM »
Brilliant job.. must have been a bloody nightmare, probably wouldn't have been much harder to whittle a walnut tree with a pen knife!

Out of interest, did you look at anything like laser point cloud surveys and then CNC'ing?

Funny you should ask that  ;D
Originally the whole lot was going to be made off the architects drawing but I was not comfortable with that idea.
I believe a price for CNC manufacture was obtained but the lead time was too long to suit the clients site management team.
After our full survey I drew it up in Autocad 3D and could not get the rails to flow (sweep or extrude along a path line) and look right.
CNC was discussed again and it threw up too many " What if's " & time, again, became a big issue.
The site management team would often push the various trades on site to make a show for client visits, ie: spend time making it look like things were more advanced.....
of course that then had to be re-done!
It was also felt that if the cnc guys just followed the metal (bearing in mind some of it was still in the process of being "mucked up" ) the client would refuse to pay.

At one point I felt sorry for the metal guys, they were not just out of their depth, they were treading water over the Marianas Trench and not a life belt in sight!

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline honeydokreg

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2013, 07:30 AM »
ROB   [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

your the first one I have ever given 8 thumbs up to on this forum !  that is awesome, and thanks so much for taking the time to share with us, something I wish the other 7,000 plus members would do.

that is some amazing talent you guys have in order to achieve this project !!!
pay attention to the details.... they make the difference... festool does
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Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 835
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2013, 01:42 PM »
ROB   [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

your the first one I have ever given 8 thumbs up to on this forum !  that is awesome, and thanks so much for taking the time to share with us, something I wish the other 7,000 plus members would do.

that is some amazing talent you guys have in order to achieve this project !!!

Thank you for this response, Kreg, it has blown me away.  [jawdrop]

I posted this project after a lot of re-writes and soul searching because it was not a "look how easy this was" or "how easy Festool's made this happen" although as I stated some of my Festool kit
really helped me out during the project. ( I actually forgot to mention that my Kapex was instrumental in cutting the compound angles required for the curved section joints, which were one chance only cuts! )

I think the message to all the forums members is, post your projects!............. What may seem mundane or of little interest, will probably be of great interest or a boost in confidence in some-one else.
 
A number of members are using Festool products as part of their hobby, and just maybe, they feel they can not compete with those who use them for a living: it is not a competition, we learn new stuff all the time. It is a shame so many don't share their projects, I have been guilty of that too, on occasion.  [embarassed]

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline Sweet

  • Posts: 38
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 05:32 PM »
Wow!!

Rob, I've only come across one chap that was a proper handrail specialist and he tried to explain the intricacies of falling lines, varying pitches etc to me. To be honest most of it went over my head but seeing what you managed to turn out, given the extremely challenging circumstances is truly phenomenal.

Chapeau Sir.  [not worthy]

Offline woodguy7

  • Posts: 2585
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 06:44 PM »
Rob, you ended up with a product I would have expected from you.  I thought your previous projects were stunning but this,,,,I would have been standing scratching my arse looking at it for days before knowing where to start  [embarassed]
Kudos for not walking.

On a side note Rob, I will email you a picture of a staircase I have to price for a log cabin.  Need some advise,,,,,again !
If its made of wood, i can make it smaller.
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Offline mattfc

  • Posts: 520
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 06:21 AM »
Out of interest Rob, have you ever seen anything like this in the UK?

Bending Rail


It looks interesting, probably only anygood for uniform planes as really only bends sideways I would guess

Online RL

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2013, 08:10 AM »
Rob, you're an outstanding craftsman. Superb job!
I like green.

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 835
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2013, 10:32 AM »
Woodguy7, you have a PM, sir.

Mattfc, I actually know two joinery companies locally who have used that technique but machined the bits themselves, apparently some slight twist is do-able though they say the downside is the multiple glue lines and time to clean up. The glue is harder than the wood to scrape/sand.
On another part of the job I made the internal and external mouldings by laminating up approx 2mm thick veneers for this:



The top moulding was this section,



Even though the cascamite had been dyed to prevent white glue lines the lines are still evident close up (the sapwood, light coloured walnut is covered by marble flooring)



As the sections were spindle moulded, after glue up, using jigs and a ring fence very little sanding was required.
The only issue I had with this was the plys slipping past each other across both length (which you need) and width......which in that handrail example the widthways slip is held in check.  ;D

An interesting note is: in George Ellis' Modern Practical Stairbuilding & Handrailing, a method of using multiple dowel "rods" to form a continuous handrail is shown  [eek] can you imagine the work in that? Especially as it (the example given) had been made in the late 1700's or very early 1800's!

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline farms100

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 02:54 PM »
stunning!
eastern mass guild of woodworkers. http://www.emgw.org

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Eli

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 06:05 PM »
Hey Rob
I've got a question (and again, fantastic work)
In your last post...
Where you laminated those 2mm veneers for the curved moldings, were you using existing straight molding or laminating the curve first and then shaping? I mean, if you slice up a bit of molding to fabricate a curve, you'd lose some of the thickness to sawkerf, is there a trick to building the thickness back up so it flows into a straight section?
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 2451
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2013, 09:03 PM »

The handrails had to be altered yet again to suit the metal, breaking the glue joints and altering the angle of the sections re-gluing, shaping or changing sections. Some of this was done on site and my MFT3 and its new buddy the leg vice really came to the fore.



Rob:
I forgot to mention, your leg vice is very cool.
Great idea.
Tim
I bought some Festools...

Offline Eli

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2013, 11:35 PM »
As the sections were spindle moulded, after glue up, using jigs and a ring fence very little sanding was required.

ahhh, read it again, cheers.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 2451
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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2013, 11:30 AM »
An interesting note is: in George Ellis' Modern Practical Stairbuilding & Handrailing, a method of using multiple dowel "rods" to form a continuous handrail is shown  [eek] can you imagine the work in that? Especially as it (the example given) had been made in the late 1700's or very early 1800's!

I really must try to get through & study that book. So much to learn, so little time...
Tim
I bought some Festools...

Offline Scdavidson

  • Posts: 30
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2013, 10:56 PM »
Awesome work! I wouldn't even know where to start. Great job!

Offline Caly

  • Posts: 40
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2013, 07:14 AM »
Phenomenal job...hope thats spelt right

Offline hghesser

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2013, 12:06 PM »
Superb...

Offline JLB builders LLC

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Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2013, 10:34 PM »
That is a true work of art. You are a very patient man lol

Im not a welder by trade but it almost looks like they welded to much in one area causing the heat to warp the metal. Seems they should have tac welded at points to assemble then randomly weld the spindles. Did they even have a framing square? A trick I learned putting in railing when I was younger, put the 16" side on the edge of 2 treads and the top of the 24" side is the bottom of the railing. I know that staircase is much more complicated but it might have helped….well maybe not hmmm

I mig welded a radius (Single Helix) stair case from start to finish. Its the largest thing I have welded. The pic is 1st floor to 2nd floor, I did basement to 2nd floor. It  was gone over by a certified welding company and all passed. Note: I am a trim carpenter  [scared]

We were suppose to wrap the steel in Mahogany. In the basement is rough cut mahogany most from the property, from a saw mill ripped to about 2 inch slabs, stacked on slats many years ago. It still isn't finished. Hopefully I will get a chance to do it.
 



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Assorted Playskool tools and some Bob the builder vids, 
Kapex,TS75,CT26E,Domino,Kreg jig,Fein MM,Fein 6 inch sander, many Systainers,Porter Cable 6" joiner/13 inch thickness planner and Bosch tools etc.



http://www.facebook.com/pages/JLB-Builders-LLC/118746931490281

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 835
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2013, 06:49 AM »
Hi JLB,
I am a great believer that a craftsperson can transfer their skills to other mediums and are usually keen to learn from others or at least willing to listen to another viewpoint.
These metal guys were as rigid as their medium.
That metalwork you did looks great, bet you got a kick out of the coded welder giving you a thumbs up  [big grin] that kind of thing always makes the effort worthwhile. [thumbs up]
Thanks for the feed back.

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline JLB builders LLC

  • Posts: 332
    • JLB Builders LLC
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2013, 03:02 PM »
Hi JLB,
I am a great believer that a craftsperson can transfer their skills to other mediums and are usually keen to learn from others or at least willing to listen to another viewpoint.
These metal guys were as rigid as their medium.
That metalwork you did looks great, bet you got a kick out of the coded welder giving you a thumbs up  [big grin] that kind of thing always makes the effort worthwhile. [thumbs up]
Thanks for the feed back.

Rob.
Thanks and yeah I am like a sponge and willing to at least try anything. Im 43 and still get a kick out of learning and listening to younger or older people. I think you can learn something from anyone (almost) well even the guys that hacked that metal job lol.

One again you are very very patient.  Cant say I would have walked off, I love challenges and as long as i am getting paid or compensated in some way would have stuck with it. Thanks for sharing your work, issues  and the all the pics.
Assorted Playskool tools and some Bob the builder vids, 
Kapex,TS75,CT26E,Domino,Kreg jig,Fein MM,Fein 6 inch sander, many Systainers,Porter Cable 6" joiner/13 inch thickness planner and Bosch tools etc.



http://www.facebook.com/pages/JLB-Builders-LLC/118746931490281

Offline Michael_Swe

  • Posts: 352
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2013, 05:53 PM »
Wow, Bob!
It's very humbling when you pros show your work. I often get very proud when I've built something I think is nice. But when I see the real thing (your work for example) I feel like I should bow and back out with the hat in my hand.

Thanks for sharing.

//Michael

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 835
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2013, 01:07 AM »
I feel like I should bow and back out with the hat in my hand.

Thanks for sharing.

//Michael

Please don't.  [eek] I'd like to think that things I post may inspire others in the same way I get inspired by projects posted by both the pro's and hobby woodworkers here, probably the best part of the FOG  ;D

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Online GPowers

  • Posts: 2001
  • Metric convert
    • Stargate Unofficiial
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2013, 12:48 PM »
amazing work  [smile]
Greg Powers
Size:XL

Online Walk On Wood

  • Posts: 193
    • Walk On Wood
Re: Hand railing: How hard can it be?
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2013, 05:43 PM »
I am in awe at the level of craftsmanship it would take to make those handrails.  Simply amazing, great work.
The Green Kool-Aid is good!