Festool Owners Group

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Member Projects => Topic started by: JCLP on January 09, 2018, 06:04 PM

Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 09, 2018, 06:04 PM
As many of you know, spraying paint is a mystery to me. I have had so much difficulty in achieving a smooth finish coat with Advance that today I tried to return the client his down deposit for the kitchen I'm working on and he would not take it. He's in no rush and is confident that I will one day I will find the solution.

I have tried many combinations of thinning and needle sizes that I'm now asking you for your help.
I have the following equipment.
Fuji Q5, 5 stage, T70 gun, PPS system and all needle sizes that Fuji makes.
I was wondering for anyone who has successfully produced a smooth final coat with the same equipment, maybe minus the PPS system, but having the same gun if you could provide me with what worked for you. I will need to know the following;

Are you reducing the amount of air via the turbine or air valve near the gun.
What percentage of thinning
What needle and cap combination
How far are you from the surface
How big is your fan
Are you doing mulitple passes
etc.

BM recommends a stage 3 with a 1.3 needle and cap and 5-10% thinning with water. I tried this and I call BS on that. I was not able to get the paint to atomize properly.

Also, if there is anyone in the Greater Toronto Area who has had successs spraying Advance with a turbine based HVLP and is willing to give me a lesson, that would be greatly appreciated. I will pay you for your time.

Thanks in advance, no pun intended
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 17, 2018, 05:51 PM
Hi everyone. The pest is back.
Here is what I'm getting spraying BM Advance, colour Stone Harbor, Pearl Sheen

Sprayed with Fuji Q5, T70 gun, 1.3 needle and cap, 10% thinning with water, power on Q5 at approx 90%. Applied between 4-5 wet mils. This is after 24 hours of drying. 72 degrees, 30% humidity. Using PPS cup. I get this no matter what I do.

Stressed beyond belief,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 17, 2018, 06:43 PM
Hi John. You may be right. Time to scrap BM. I'm assuming you sprayed Pro Classic. As there are 2 versions, which one would you recommend for cabinets?

JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JBag09 on January 17, 2018, 06:59 PM
JC,
  I’ve also read a lot of your posts and issues with BM paints. Like posted above, I’d try something else too. Are you able to get Kem Aqua plus in your area? I’ve only recently gotten into spraying and only use an Earlex 5500, had to mess around with the needles a bit to find the correct one. But KA+ is a dream to work with. If your able to get ahold of some, check it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 17, 2018, 08:02 PM
ProClassic Waterborne Interior Acrylic Enamel

I've been very pleased with it since I have been able to spray, roll and brush for projects with consistent quality. Only ever used white with ProClassic.

I have a Fuji Q4, 2 G-series guns gravity and siphon and T75 gun. PPS cups on any of them.

2 oz of distilled water (I keep a gallon in the shop, goes a long way), 2 oz of Floetrol, mix in paint to a total of a quart.

John. What size of needle and cap do use with pro classic.
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: bnaboatbuilder on January 17, 2018, 09:50 PM
Always have to look at the tips because the sets are different between the XPC and T75.

#4 is 1.4mm on the XPC, G-XPC

1.5mm on T75
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Alan G on January 18, 2018, 11:06 AM
ProClassic Waterborne Interior Acrylic Enamel

I've been very pleased with it since I have been able to spray, roll and brush for projects with consistent quality. Only ever used white with ProClassic.

I have a Fuji Q4, 2 G-series guns gravity and siphon and T75 gun. PPS cups on any of them.

2 oz of distilled water (I keep a gallon in the shop, goes a long way), 2 oz of Floetrol, mix in paint to a total of a quart.

Have you (or anyone else) ever tried (sprayed) ProClassic Interior Waterbased Acrylic-Alkyd Enamel? Curious how that compares to the reg Proclassic Acrylic Enamel?



Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 18, 2018, 11:16 AM
ProClassic Waterborne Interior Acrylic Enamel

I've been very pleased with it since I have been able to spray, roll and brush for projects with consistent quality. Only ever used white with ProClassic.

I have a Fuji Q4, 2 G-series guns gravity and siphon and T75 gun. PPS cups on any of them.

2 oz of distilled water (I keep a gallon in the shop, goes a long way), 2 oz of Floetrol, mix in paint to a total of a quart.

Have you (or anyone else) ever tried (sprayed) ProClassic Interior Waterbased Acrylic-Alkyd Enamel? Curious how that compares to the reg Proclassic Acrylic Enamel?

I spray only waters.

Tom

Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Alan G on January 18, 2018, 11:19 AM
Tom-

Is that KA+?

How do you find the hardness of KA+ compared to a precat waterborne finish?
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 18, 2018, 11:30 AM
Tom-

Is that KA+?

How do you find the hardness of KA+ compared to a precat waterborne finish?

That is Pro Classic Waterborne Alkyd. The paint was mixed when I needed to match existing trim in the home, sprayed it on the vanity.

To answer you question-KA+ is much harder than the paint. KA+ is also recognized as a cabinet finish. I've sprayed waterborne pre-cat epoxy, it is what I used on this ceiling, don't recall what I thought of the hardness.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 18, 2018, 02:41 PM
You don’t want quick drying paint so it has time to flatten once it’s hit the surface.

You wanna spray everything horizontally so the paint can flatten better.

You wanna spray it thick in one pass so it flattens/self levels.

A HVLP doesn’t atomize many paints very well because it just doesn’t have the pressure behind the tip.   So you need to thin the paint but that’s not really ideal.

I have a Earlex 5500 and I was able to get a dead smooth finish but it was a pain and I had the filter paint a few times  190microns to avoid spitting/blockage.

Solvents, waterbourne, waterbased etc. All spray differently and different brands can vary a lot.

Example I sprayed Zinsser solvent based and Zinsser perma white water based.   I used same setup and same tip size and from looking at the paint in the tin they both look same consistency.

Yet the solvent based one I got slight orange peel and being solvent it never flattened.   Water based will often flatten after a day or two even though when it was first sprayed it looked orange peely.


I upgraded my spray system because I wanted something quicker and easier to spray with and be able to spray any paint with out worrying a HVLP won’t handle it. 

I would recommend you do the same to be honest saves you a lot of stress. 

Here couple pictures of what finish you can get with a better spray setup
I sprayed these yesterday

The cabinet was sprayed with it in the vertical position.

I did spray that with a Fuji Q4 HVLP turbine.

You want to spray at the proper mil rate, to thick and the finish can check as it dries.

The Pro Classic I shot was not thinned, I did use an extender in it.

For the record---I have 4 systems I can choose from.

Tom

Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 18, 2018, 03:12 PM
Maybe the word thick isn’t right I mean enough paint for it to flatten.


In his question is asked doing multiple passes. 

I found if your not getting good atomisation and do light multiple passes to build up the paint you just end up with same poor finish.   If you get enough paint on it should flatten.

You can spray vertical but it’s harder and higher chance of sagging or runs if you lay to much on.


The pictures above I posted was one just 10 seconds after I sprayed the panel vertical and then second picture when it’s dry.   The panel was kept vertical. 

Thing is I used a 10/20 tip at 140 bar pressure with 5bar air pressure.    With that I get ultra fine mist spray and it took no more than 3seconds to spray that panel maybe 4seconds.

Agreed, a single pass at the proper mil thickness is best.

The cabinet in my picture is probably 24 hours dry. The doors on the bench may be fresh.

Spraying with pieces in the vertical is a learned skill. It can go really well or bite you in the ***. It is something everyone should learn, they're are times you just can't lay a piece down.

I still contend finishing is one of the hardest parts of woodworking.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Chris Perren on January 18, 2018, 03:44 PM
@jmbfestool - can you provide the details on your latest sprayer.  Something less stressful would be great!  Thanks!
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 18, 2018, 04:39 PM
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) You don’t want quick drying paint so it has time to flatten once it’s hit the surface.

You wanna spray everything horizontally so the paint can flatten better.

You wanna spray it thick in one pass so it flattens/self levels.

A HVLP doesn’t atomize many paints very well because it just doesn’t have the pressure behind the tip.   So you need to thin the paint but that’s not really ideal.

I have a Earlex 5500 and I was able to get a dead smooth finish but it was a pain and I had the filter paint a few times  190microns to avoid spitting/blockage.

Solvents, waterbourne, waterbased etc. All spray differently and different brands can vary a lot.

Example I sprayed Zinsser solvent based and Zinsser perma white water based.   I used same setup and same tip size and from looking at the paint in the tin they both look same consistency.

Yet the solvent based one I got slight orange peel and being solvent it never flattened.   Water based will often flatten after a day or two even though when it was first sprayed it looked orange peely.


I upgraded my spray system because I wanted something quicker and easier to spray with and be able to spray any paint with out worrying a HVLP won’t handle it. 

I would recommend you do the same to be honest saves you a lot of stress. 

Here couple pictures of what finish you can get with a better spray setup
I sprayed these yesterday

Very nice finish.
As I am not doing much spraying/testing these days, due to health reasons, I have been looking at changing spray technologies. I have been in contact with Kremlin and they recommend, but there not 100% sure, the 15C25 pump. As it is an investment of approx. $6000.00 CAD, I have asked for a demo on spraying BM Advance and SW Pro Classic. I know it can spray Kem Aqua and other like products, but I want to see these 2 paints sprayed before I hand over my credit card.

Now, I have learned that Advance does not like air and spraying it with HVLP turbine can prove challenging. As per a BM tech, they recommend not thinning more then 10% as sagging could occur on sharp edges of doors or panels. Thus I've been thinning 9% in my test with water only.

I have also reduced the amount of air movement in my spray booth and moved the turntable farther away from the fans. Sprayed a couple of pieces this morning and we'll see what we getting tomorrow morning.

Cheers,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 18, 2018, 06:13 PM
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) You don’t want quick drying paint so it has time to flatten once it’s hit the surface.

You wanna spray everything horizontally so the paint can flatten better.

You wanna spray it thick in one pass so it flattens/self levels.

A HVLP doesn’t atomize many paints very well because it just doesn’t have the pressure behind the tip.   So you need to thin the paint but that’s not really ideal.

I have a Earlex 5500 and I was able to get a dead smooth finish but it was a pain and I had the filter paint a few times  190microns to avoid spitting/blockage.

Solvents, waterbourne, waterbased etc. All spray differently and different brands can vary a lot.

Example I sprayed Zinsser solvent based and Zinsser perma white water based.   I used same setup and same tip size and from looking at the paint in the tin they both look same consistency.

Yet the solvent based one I got slight orange peel and being solvent it never flattened.   Water based will often flatten after a day or two even though when it was first sprayed it looked orange peely.


I upgraded my spray system because I wanted something quicker and easier to spray with and be able to spray any paint with out worrying a HVLP won’t handle it. 

I would recommend you do the same to be honest saves you a lot of stress. 

Here couple pictures of what finish you can get with a better spray setup
I sprayed these yesterday

Very nice finish.
As I am not doing much spraying/testing these days, due to health reasons, I have been looking at changing spray technologies. I have been in contact with Kremlin and they recommend, but there not 100% sure, the 15C25 pump. As it is an investment of approx. $6000.00 CAD, I have asked for a demo on spraying BM Advance and SW Pro Classic. I know it can spray Kem Aqua and other like products, but I want to see these 2 paints sprayed before I hand over my credit card.

Now, I have learned that Advance does not like air and spraying it with HVLP turbine can prove challenging. As per a BM tech, they recommend not thinning more then 10% as sagging could occur on sharp edges of doors or panels. Thus I've been thinning 9% in my test with water only.

I have also reduced the amount of air movement in my spray booth and moved the turntable farther away from the fans. Sprayed a couple of pieces this morning and we'll see what we getting tomorrow morning.

Cheers,
JC

You seem very hooked on this particular paint why is that?

You should try test samples of other paints or work with a rep.

I had morelles come out and talk to me and took some timber samples and MDF and birch ply and they sprayed it with their product and he came back and showed me the results and I was happy so bought the paint.

$6000 seems high price.

You can spend a lot less and get a good system

My setup cost
£1200 pump
£1000 Gun/hose/tips/filters
£600 to 800 compatibile compressor.

£2800

With that system you have a two in one.
Portable Airless  and depending on compressor a portable airless air assisted.

So you can be in workshop spraying and then go onto site for touch ups or full spray.

Airless air assisted is like HVLP and airless combined.

Using a airless pump you have the high pressure for the thick paints.



Only downside really is paint paint to prime machine.  Takes a little but using a hopper and shorter hose it’s very small.  I can spray with as little as 250mm prime

I'm stuck on this paint because brushing by hand is involved in this project and I have tried several manufactures of paint, SW Kem Aqua, Valspar's commercial line, LKW5102  Waterborne Acrylic, not the stuff from Lowes and Duralaq and no one is able to match the colour close enough to not tell a difference. I know, and the client, that there will be a different look to the sheen between brushing and spraying and they are OK with that. Even BM is not able to match the colour close enough between Advance, Regal Select, Duralaq, Cabinet Coat etc. and SW, Valspar, Kem Aqua are not close enough either.  All of these have a red hue where the Regal Select has a green hue, which is what the client really wants.

As for the cost of the new system. £2800 is approx $5500 cad, including tax. I was probably wrong in saying $6000 as the Kremlin pump, with 2 tips, a compressor plus taxes would probably be closer to $5700.00 CAD

Cheers,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 19, 2018, 04:12 PM
Here picture of the door 1 hour later

Thank you very much for the video and photos. Looks perfect to me and I'm sure your client would be happy. I know mine would be.

I'm doing a lot of research on how AAA, Airless and Kremlin's Airmix work and came up with a theory that might just work with an HVLP turbine. I love experimenting, eventhough it's sometime extremely frustrating, but you know what they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.
I'm still leaning towards a Kremlin solution, which is similar to yours but I want to make sure that I have tried absolutely everything with HVLP turbine before jumping on the Kremlin slide.

Thank you for all your help and advice.

Now it's time for a glass, or maybe several glasses of wine.

Cheers,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: brewster201 on January 19, 2018, 06:22 PM
Sure looks like a Kremlin
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 19, 2018, 06:25 PM
Sure looks like a Kremlin

jmb stated in his post said it is a rebadged Kremlin.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: brewster201 on January 20, 2018, 07:34 AM
Thanks for all the good info and photos. I really like the Xcite gun and not too many issues with tip plugging. The 15C25 comes with a pump discharge filter and the gun has built in strainer above the swivel. This my setup with a Kremlin one pass heater
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 20, 2018, 08:41 AM
I go on.

The Kremlin Xcite has no inline filter so I believe you have a higher chance of tip blockage.



I’ve attached my gun and Xcite which has no filter

The black section of my gun houses a large filter largest filter in the air asssited market.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

The Kremlin gun does have a filter, it is in the fitting that the fluid hose connects to.

I have a Graco and C.A.T. AAA guns.The y also have filters at the gun hose connection. I have a second filter housing mounted on all my pumps.

I have had a few plugs, I do strain the product and keep the equipment clean. I make sure I flush the hoses well after use.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 20, 2018, 08:53 AM
Thanks for all of the info. Was not able to find a Wagner pump distributor in Canada. I think they are only available is the US, Europe and Australia.

Cheers,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 20, 2018, 09:44 AM
Thanks for all the good info and photos. I really like the Xcite gun and not too many issues with tip plugging. The 15C25 comes with a pump discharge filter and the gun has built in strainer above the swivel. This my setup with a Kremlin one pass heater

Oh sorry I looked at the gun and tried typed in filters and nothing popped up normally websites which sell the gun have tips and filters in accessories and that particular gun didn’t so asssumed it was just a swivel connection only.

Saying that the filter can’t be very big at all to fit inside there and it looks like it requires tools to remove and clean filter is that correct?

I use 60 and 100 mesh filters in my guns. I keep a few of each on hand. They are stainless steel mesh, when I switch products I pull the filters, place them in the appropriate solvent for the product, install new/clean filters in the housings. get back to spraying.

As I stated I flush the fluid hose, I find this cuts down on clogs.

The filter housing only needs to be finger tight.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 20, 2018, 09:47 AM
I go on.

The Kremlin Xcite has no inline filter so I believe you have a higher chance of tip blockage.



I’ve attached my gun and Xcite which has no filter

The black section of my gun houses a large filter largest filter in the air asssited market.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

The Kremlin gun does have a filter, it is in the fitting that the fluid hose connects to.

I have a Graco and C.A.T. AAA guns.The y also have filters at the gun hose connection. I have a second filter housing mounted on all my pumps.

I have had a few plugs, I do strain the product and keep the equipment clean. I make sure I flush the hoses well after use.

Tom

Yeah sorry the swivel connection gave me doubt due to its size and it not popping up with a quick search I made a quick assumption it didn’t have a filter.

Always expect two filters one at pump and one just before gun. 

Block tips are very annoying.

Especially mid spraying a large panel 😭😭😭

No worries.

My 395 AAA ultimately has 3 fluid filters, a large one in the pump to hose housing, I put one on the hose inlet, the the one at the gun.

Yep--plugs suck, they always seem to know the worst time to occur also....

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 20, 2018, 10:12 AM
Found on Kijiji a Kremlin 15C25 ( 15:1) pump with Xcite gun, couple of extra tips, pump fluid and some filters. The seller says it is 5 years old and has only sprayed water based clears through it. Looks fairly clean in the photos. What type of questions should I ask them and what test can I do if I were to move forwrd on this. His asking price is $2400.00 CAD and paid $5100 CAD 5 years ago.

Cheers,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 20, 2018, 10:32 AM
@tjbnwi

Got the little strainer in bottom of hopper then I use 100mesh in pump and  100 to 200 mesh in the gun. 

Wagner have a chart and 8 thou to 10 require 200mesh

I don’t always flush mine out to be honest.  If I’m using same product over a few days or week I leave it primed.   Only till I know I’m finished or change product do I give it a proper clean flush through.



Just had another quick search Xcite doesn’t really come up with much really.
Found a non UK site selling filters I think are for the gun?

(Attachment Link)

Still can’t tell if it’s tooles filter change.

@jmbfestool

I choose the filter based on the product not the pump.

I flush mine because I feel/think/believe most clogs come from the hose. The product sits in the hose it can accumulated on the walls and congeal, fluid starts to move and the gunk ends up in the tip. I also have extra hoses on hand.

I believe the Xicte gun does not come up much because it is part of a package. Kremlin does not market them hard individually.

Those filters go between the flat tip and the gun body. I want to try them, keep forgetting to order some. they also work as a pre office so you can drop the fluid pressure some.

These are the filters I have on my guns. I purchased extra housing to go between the pump and the hose.

https://www.kmcoating.com/filters-filter-housing/36-003.html

I change the filters without the need of tools.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 20, 2018, 10:51 AM
@tjbnwi

I see didn’t know that. So they are a extra filter you can have in addition to your inline filter

So you can be super filtered  😂.


So you choose filters based on product.



I choose tips based on product and then select correct filter for the tip which is stated by manufacture that’s how I thought you had to do it.

Finer tip = finer filter

Yes.

Super is good....

Yes

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 20, 2018, 12:37 PM
Found on Kijiji a Kremlin 15C25 ( 15:1) pump with Xcite gun, couple of extra tips, pump fluid and some filters. The seller says it is 5 years old and has only sprayed water based clears through it. Looks fairly clean in the photos. What type of questions should I ask them and what test can I do if I were to move forwrd on this. His asking price is $2400.00 CAD and paid $5100 CAD 5 years ago.

Cheers,
JC

Wow. Too bad not available here in Canada.

JC


@JCLP

Such a shame you can’t get Wagner.

Look at finish with the pump and gun

https://youtu.be/2jPG10cZCYw
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 20, 2018, 01:14 PM
Found on Kijiji a Kremlin 15C25 ( 15:1) pump with Xcite gun, couple of extra tips, pump fluid and some filters. The seller says it is 5 years old and has only sprayed water based clears through it. Looks fairly clean in the photos. What type of questions should I ask them and what test can I do if I were to move forwrd on this. His asking price is $2400.00 CAD and paid $5100 CAD 5 years ago.

Cheers,
JC

@JCLP

Such a shame you can’t get Wagner.

Look at finish with the pump and gun

https://youtu.be/2jPG10cZCYw

The finish quality has more to do with the gun and operator than the pump. The pump is there to get product to the gun, once there, the magic happens.

When it comes to AAA spray guns the Satajet 3000 K is probably the best out there.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on January 20, 2018, 02:15 PM
@tjbnwi

I see didn’t know that. So they are a extra filter you can have in addition to your inline filter

So you can be super filtered  😂.


So you choose filters based on product.



I choose tips based on product and then select correct filter for the tip which is stated by manufacture that’s how I thought you had to do it.

Finer tip = finer filter

I just ordered the tip filters. Should be here for next weekends spraying. I'll report back (if I remember to....)

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on January 24, 2018, 09:03 PM
Well I decided to put the HVLP aside and try my hand at airless. For the last week I have been playing with my Graco Ultra and after 1.5 galons of paint I have not been successful in spraying BM Advance or BM Regal Select. I have tried the following tip sizes, 201, 212, 310, 312 and 514. I either get dry spray, craters or rough surface. I have sprayed thinned 5% and straight out of the can with no success. I have sprayed thick and thin with no success. I have adjusted my distance from 6" up to 12" and altered my speed with no success. There is something I'm doing worng and I have no idea. Thank god I didn't purchase a Graco GX19. I would be divorced and have another boat anchor to get rid off. Time for a garage sale.

Thanks to everyone for putting up with me and offering suggestions and advice. Unfortunately there are gods that are not alowing me to acquire the knowledge on spraying paint.

Maybe Home depot is looking for part time staff for the upcoming spring and summer seasons. I'm certain I know how to use a lawnmower.

Cheers,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Mace on February 06, 2018, 08:24 PM
I have a friend who is a great sprayer and he stopped using BM Advance. Said it runs on him like crazy.

I myself never used it but have sprayed other paints. My favorite is PPG Breakthrough. I spray it with my Graco Ultra handheld and it sprays beautifully. I put my gun on number 2 and move on the fast side.  If I'm spraying other paints like SW Pro classic I would put it on around 5-7.

I taught myself how to spray just by doing it and watching YouTube videos helped as well. I used to look around for old pieces of furniture like dresser drawers, bookshelves.... whatever I could find and take it home and practice my spraying.

I never try to cover anything with one coat but fewer light coats.... well now I can do things in one coat if I want but you get a better finish doing multiple coats.

Practice makes perfect.... well if not perfect it does make it a lot better.

Take care
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Scott Burt on February 06, 2018, 08:28 PM
The cure time is a real bummer. It is a nice looking and feeling finish, but rather soft and slow.
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on February 06, 2018, 08:40 PM
BM Advance, sprayed with a 395 AAA.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Alan G on February 06, 2018, 09:00 PM
Nice
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: PaulH99 on February 07, 2018, 11:44 AM
BM Advance, sprayed with a 395 AAA.

Did you spray these in place, or did you spray the parts and assemble after the paint dried?
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 07, 2018, 03:01 PM
Very nice Tom. Maybe I should get a Graco 395 Finish Pro II as well.

JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 09, 2018, 04:25 PM
I'm back. Can't stay away from this punishment. Needed a project so I built a new spray booth, 7'x7'. Was able to make air tight and I created an air chamber behind the filters for maximum air extraction. No fear of overspray going into the house. I posted a video on my instagram account, woodworking_by_jc.

Check it out.

Cheers,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: gunnyr on February 09, 2018, 04:46 PM
I'm back. Can't stay away from this punishment. Needed a project so I built a new spray booth, 7'x7'. Was able to make air tight and I created an air chamber behind the filters for maximum air extraction. No fear of overspray going into the house. I posted a video on my instagram account, woodworking_by_jc.

Check it out.

Cheers,
JC


Hah!  My booth ended up 7x7x7 also.  It should really be 7x7x6'8" so that it would fit beneath my garage door tracks.  Mine is made of 5 panels that I bolt together with carriage bolts when in use.  I break it down and store it above my garage door when not in use.  I use furnace filters for the intake and exhaust.  I spray only water based paints and finishes so I am not concerned with combustion. 

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3]

I am new to spraying but encouraged with my results so far.  I have sprayed PPG Advantage 900 with limited success, and Deft Satin Poly with much greater success.  I have a MiniMite4 rig with tips from 1.0 to 1.8.  Seems the 1.5 works well with latex for me when thinned 20%.
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on February 09, 2018, 08:48 PM
BM Advance, sprayed with a 395 AAA.

Did you spray these in place, or did you spray the parts and assemble after the paint dried?

Yes and no.

The parts were primed, assembled, filled, primed, painted, installed, filled, caulked to wall, touch primed, sprayed 2 coats.

The exterior parts are Boral I machined, coated with BM Aura Exterior, finished as above.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: tjbnwi on February 09, 2018, 08:54 PM
Very nice Tom. Maybe I should get a Graco 395 Finish Pro II as well.

JC

It can be a cruel mistress. Even with my experience it took me a couple of attempts to get the hang of the unit. 6" becomes 12", overlap changes, pass speed changes, listening to what it tells you is a different story in an unknown language until you learn its language.

Tom
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 14, 2018, 11:43 AM
Why is this so difficult. Even with an airless, 312 tip, no thinning, 12-14 inches away from surface and no success. I even tried laying thin and laying it down thick and I can get a smooth surface. It's got to be the colour.

totally confused,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Lettusbee on February 14, 2018, 11:50 AM
Have you tried a different brand of paint yet?

Sherwin pro classic is easy to get good results with when spraying?

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Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 14, 2018, 11:58 AM
Have you tried a different brand of paint yet?

Sherwin pro classic is easy to get good results with when spraying?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I have tried spraying pro classic in the past with no success. There is something I'm doing wrong and I can't figure it out. I have done other projects in the past with advance and regal select with great success, that is what is so frustrating. The other issue, is that other brands are not able to match the colour the client wants perfectly. Some pieces that I have to spray are very close to existing grey colour. When others, Sherwin Williams and Dulux try to match the colour they both end up having a redish hue to them. Also, as there is brushing involved, I need to use a pint that is brushable and sprayable. If there was no brushing involved in this project I probably would use Kem Aqua from SW. I have even tried some of the commercial paints from BM, but they too have difficulty matching the colour.

JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Michael Kellough on February 14, 2018, 12:41 PM
Have you tried a different brand of paint yet?

Sherwin pro classic is easy to get good results with when spraying?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I have tried spraying pro classic in the past with no success. There is something I'm doing wrong and I can't figure it out. I have done other projects in the past with advance and regal select with great success, that is what is so frustrating. The other issue, is that other brands are not able to match the colour the client wants perfectly. Some pieces that I have to spray are very close to existing grey colour. When others, Sherwin Williams and Dulux try to match the colour they both end up having a redish hue to them. Also, as there is brushing involved, I need to use a pint that is brushable and sprayable. If there was no brushing involved in this project I probably would use Kem Aqua from SW. I have even tried some of the commercial paints from BM, but they too have difficulty matching the colour.

JC

If the exact same finish is installed in a different plane it will look quite different. If the pieces you will add are not installed co-planar with the existing stuff close is good enough.
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 14, 2018, 05:56 PM
Here is a sample of what I'm getting.
BM Advance, no thinning, colour is Stone Harbor # 2111-50, sheen is pearl ( satin in the US ) tip size is FFLP 314. Airless is Graco Ultra Handheld.
That is what the entire panel, 18"x24", looks like. Any ideas on what is going on?

The image of the sun is my light reflecting off the panel.

Thanks,
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Pnw painter on February 15, 2018, 02:03 AM
What is the substrate? What primer are you using? What grit sand paper are using before spraying Advance? After you finish sanding are you wiping the surface with a rag or blowing it off with compressed air?

It’s also possible that the issue has something to do with your spray booth. Maybe you exhaust fan is pulling too much air when you’re spraying?

Have you discussed the issues you’re having with your BM rep? I’d recommended having them visit your shop and watch you spray a sample.

I’d also try using another product from a different manufacturer. If you get the same results than at least you know it’s not the paint that’s causing the issue.


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Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Pnw painter on February 15, 2018, 02:10 AM
After spraying the paint does paint look like glass when it’s wet? When do all the micro bubbles appear after you’ve sprayed the paint?


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Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Mikeoutrage on February 15, 2018, 06:50 AM
I have been watching this for some time now. I am no painter but have done a little for time to time. Are you sure there are no contaminates from the gun from cleaning? Are you pouring the remainder of the paint back into the can? If so it could have been contaminated the very first use? Baffled. I will keep watching. I liked BM advance when I sprayed it right up to I learned about the 30 day plus cure time.
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 15, 2018, 07:04 AM
I have been watching this for some time now. I am no painter but have done a little for time to time. Are you sure there are no contaminates from the gun from cleaning? Are you pouring the remainder of the paint back into the can? If so it could have been contaminated the very first use? Baffled. I will keep watching. I liked BM advance when I sprayed it right up to I learned about the 30 day plus cure time.
The gun is really clean. I even had Fuji provide me with several new guns to see if that wat the issue, but I get the same thing. The remaining paint is thrown away. This is why I am going through so much paint. the paint store loves me.
JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 15, 2018, 07:07 AM
After spraying the paint does paint look like glass when it’s wet? When do all the micro bubbles appear after you’ve sprayed the paint?


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If you have ever been to a skating rink, the paint looks like when a Zamboni just finishes cleaning the ice. Wet as a lake. The bubbles appear almost immediately when tha paint hits the surface. It really gets bad after about 15 minutes of drying.

JC
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: neilc on February 17, 2018, 06:21 PM
Look forward to hearing / seeing what you found out!
Title: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Pnw painter on February 18, 2018, 02:32 AM
I’d guess your paint was reacting with the primer or fillers you’ve been using. Either way it’ll be interesting to find out what the fix is.


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Title: Re: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: jmbfestool on February 18, 2018, 04:03 PM
Send me a tin of the paint your using I’ll spray with it and see if I get same problem.

Or better still see if some one local to you will spray with it.
Title: Re: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 21, 2018, 02:17 PM
This thread was moved to the Member Projects folder because I was not able to see it anyore in the Finishing & Painting folder.

Anyway. Well as many of you know, along with BM Advance I was also trying to spray BM Regal Select and this paint, which is really thick, has proven to be more of a challenge then Advance.

Well, by thinking outside the box and ignoring common HVLP turbine rules, I believe I have figured out how to spray BM Regal Select pearl Finish. I have tried 5 test panels and all of them look like the one in the photo. The pencil is there so the camera had something to focus on as the surface is too smooth. This is after 5 hours of drying.

Cheers,
JC
Title: Re: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Alan G on February 21, 2018, 03:09 PM
Looks great! Glad you were able to figure it out. Can you share what you did for both the Advance and Regal?
Title: Re: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: Jasonj888 on February 23, 2018, 03:13 PM
I don't have nearly as much experience spraying paint as the rest of the folks that have commented, but I find myself frequently breaking the rules and thinning my paint 15%, or even a little more. I've painted quite a few vanities with several varieties of paint and haven't had a customer complaint (including in my own house, and my wife is a critical client). The added thinning seems to help the paint smooth out, I suppose it just stays wet longer. I generally use my Lex-Aire with a  1.3 mm tip.
Title: Re: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 23, 2018, 03:24 PM
I don't have nearly as much experience spraying paint as the rest of the folks that have commented, but I find myself frequently breaking the rules and thinning my paint 15%, or even a little more. I've painted quite a few vanities with several varieties of paint and haven't had a customer complaint (including in my own house, and my wife is a critical client). The added thinning seems to help the paint smooth out, I suppose it just stays wet longer. I generally use my Lex-Aire with a  1.3 mm tip.
Hi Jason,
Good  point. Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking outside the box. I think that existing procedures for HVLP turbines are out of date as they were thought of before these new thick waterborne were common stream. As well, when you are using 3MPPS system, the rules change a bit.
I use a 0.8mm needle when spraying thick Waterborne paint from Benjamin Moore. Great finish just like the photo I posted.

Cheers,
JC

Title: Re: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on February 23, 2018, 04:10 PM
One of the issues I had was that my air exhaust was sufficient, so I need to design a new way of extracting air. So I decided to use an air chamber powered by 2 - 20" variable speed fans that both have the capacity to draw out 1900cfm's if needed.
The chamber in the photo is 4'x4' and 2' deep. The two fans lay horizontally at the top of the chamber and everything is exhausted out the basement window. The front of the chamber will have filters installed to catch the dry spray before it goes outside.
At the entrance, I added a half door so I could controll how much air cross the surface of the panel. the height of the door is very clse to the height of the panel that I will be spraying on my rotating table. The bottom of the door is 6" from the floor, so the air can also come in and cross the floor to the chamber.
Due to fast drying Regal Select, it was important that I was able to limit the air crossing the panel but still be able to exhaust the bounce back and/or overspray that happens.

The test panel in the photo I posted was painted in the new booth.

Cheers,
JC
Title: Re: Help on Spraying BM Advance/Regal Select
Post by: JCLP on March 05, 2018, 07:39 AM
Good morning,

BM Advance sprayed with a Fuji Q5, T75G gun, 1.3 needle and cap.

Cheers,
JC