Sparky977
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Location: Hastings, MI Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 82
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« on: June 16, 2008, 12:39 AM » |
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This is my first entire house cabinet job, officially launching my cabinet company, Mirus Custom Cabinetry. Mirus is Latin for "wonderful, astonishing, extraordinary." I've built cabinets and built-ins before, but not the entire house. There were 140 running feet of cabinetry in this house! Lets just say, I learned a LOT on this job, and not all of them happy lessons (aka, I charged WAYYYYYY too little).  Lockers  Master Bath  Shared bath   Kitchen  Mantel The boxes for the cabinets are all 3/4 maple plywood, with 1/2 ply backs. Face frames are maple, pocket screwed together, and Domino'd to the box to avoid visible fasteners. Drawers are all dovetailed, 5/8 maple, with 1/2 maple ply bottoms. Blum Tandem with Blumotion for the drawer guides. Maple doors, some with traditional raised panel, some Shaker style. 1 1/4 overlay hinges. The island has chamfered corner posts. The navy blue paint finish is also distressed. Also, the granite on the island is probably one of the most beautiful pieces I've seen. Used the Rotex sander for sanding. The TS55 made cutting all the plywood down to manageable sizes much easier. There are more pictures of this job, along with others I have done, at http://flickr.com/photos/slconstruction/sets/72157601423123942/The pictures posted here were taken by www.coastline-studios.com. Hope you all enjoy. Sparky
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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Bill Wyko
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Location: Tucson AZ 30 miles from water, 3 feet from heck. Member Since: Mar 2008
Posts: 813
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 12:58 AM » |
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Fantastic job Sparky. I can tell you have a real passion for you work. With the quality of work you do, don't sell yourself short when you bid the work. Just tell the customer what I say "The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten" A more clever way of saying "You get what you pay for" By what I can tell, you shouldn't have any trouble getting a top price. Great job.
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The bitterness of poor quality, lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten.
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Sparky977
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Location: Hastings, MI Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 82
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 01:01 AM » |
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Fantastic job Sparky. I can tell you have a real passion for you work. With the quality of work you do, don't sell yourself short when you bid the work. Just tell the customer what I say "The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten" A more clever way of saying "You get what you pay for" By what I can tell, you shouldn't have any trouble getting a top price. Great job.
Thank you! I will definitely have to remember that line. 
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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woodshopdemos
Inactive Member
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Location: Hope, RI Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 759
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 01:40 AM » |
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Sparky, Took the slide show and wow!! Nice photos but real beauty is in your woodwork. Every piece is a fabulous work of art.
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In memory of John Lucas (1937 - 2010)
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hissatsu
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Location: Sunnyside, NY Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 52
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 01:56 AM » |
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Really fantastic looking work there. A friend recently has his whole house redone, but it was kind of "on the cheap." Still the numbers bandied about were dizzying, and it didn't look nearly as good as this. Hope you didn't charge too little for it.
Pedro
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rjfarel
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Location: South Sound, WAAAAAHHHHHH Member Since: Apr 2007
Posts: 42
between T-Town and Oly, WAAAAHHHH
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 11:55 AM » |
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Beautiful work.
Don't intend to hijack the thread, but the design of the tub seems like a serious injury waiting to happen with the sharp edges located near a very high step and faucet and handles at the entry point.
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Robert Robinson
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Location: Princeton, Indiana Member Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 711
southern Indiana, U.S.A.
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 12:47 PM » |
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great work. I loved all of it.
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TS-55, FS-KS angle unit, 55 inch guide rail, Domino (pin style), 3 Domino systainer assortments(one sipo set),Multi-position Guide Stop 20, Domiplate , PSB-300, FOGtainer 4, CXS set
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Sparky977
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Location: Hastings, MI Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 82
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 02:11 PM » |
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Beautiful work.
Don't intend to hijack the thread, but the design of the tub seems like a serious injury waiting to happen with the sharp edges located near a very high step and faucet and handles at the entry point.
Yeah, I've never understood why this builder always has his tubs with the faucet on the entrance side. I have worked on 4 houses for him, and they are all the same. Actually, there are quite a few things that this builder does that drives me nuts, but that is an entirely different topic and I don't need to get my blood pressure up today. 
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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b_m_hart
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Location: SF, CA Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 344
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 02:15 PM » |
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Wow, quite a bit of work there, I'm sure. How long did you spend from start to paycheck on this?
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TS 55 EQ, ETS 150/5, RO 150 FEQ, OF 1010 EQ, DF 500 Q, C12, CT Midi, OF 2200 EB, MFT/3s, DTS 400 EQ, parallel guides, and seemingly growing by the day...
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Sparky977
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Location: Hastings, MI Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 82
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 04:18 PM » |
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I have between 500 and 600 hours into this, that includes installation. Being that it was my first full house cabinet project, that number is probably skewed by time thinking about how to do things.  Hopefully the next project will be quicker. Of course, I never fell like I get things done quickly enough. Its that constant struggle between efficiency and utmost quality. I want to get things done quickly, but not at the risk of quality.
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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mastercabman
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Location: norfolk va Member Since: Apr 2007
Posts: 1370
NORFOLK,VA
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 06:35 PM » |
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sparky,nice work! 500-600 hours? sometime it feels like eternity! i have a few question if it's ok. did you or do you have any helpers? i noticed on the pics that you had your equipment set up inside the house? looks to me that it was a new house,did you have any problem with power? what type of paint/finish did you use on the bookshelf? look like you sprayed the unit on site,what kind of sprayer did you use?i allways had problem with doing finishing on the job site.dust was my nightmare!!!! i'm a one man show,and i use to be in charge of a shop,i had access anytime,but it got shut down. i have a garage,but it is way too small for me to build a whole kitchen.so i am sticking to small jobs/bookshelf type of work. did you do most of your work at the job site? build? finishing? are you ready to do it again? 
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I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!
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Sparky977
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Location: Hastings, MI Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 82
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2008, 07:23 AM » |
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sparky,nice work! 500-600 hours? sometime it feels like eternity! i have a few question if it's ok. did you or do you have any helpers? i noticed on the pics that you had your equipment set up inside the house? looks to me that it was a new house,did you have any problem with power? what type of paint/finish did you use on the bookshelf? look like you sprayed the unit on site,what kind of sprayer did you use?i allways had problem with doing finishing on the job site.dust was my nightmare!!!! i'm a one man show,and i use to be in charge of a shop,i had access anytime,but it got shut down. i have a garage,but it is way too small for me to build a whole kitchen.so i am sticking to small jobs/bookshelf type of work. did you do most of your work at the job site? build? finishing? are you ready to do it again?  Right now, its just me, no helpers. I need to fix that if things get busy. I should have had helpers on that job, but that is another long story that I won't get into. This house, the only time I had tools there was during installation. I had my MFT3 and my Bosch miter saw. Other projects that are on my Flickr page, yes, I did do everything on site. No problems with power, as my table saw is only 1.75 hp. I didn't wire it for 220 just so I could take it to the jobsite. That was because I was trimming the houses too at that time, so I had to do everything there. This house I posted here, everything was built at my shop. I didn't do any of the finishing. I have a friend who also did the painting on most of the jobs shown on my flickr page who does my finishing. His name is Rolly Wilcox, and he does an amazing job of making my work look good! He has a couple different sprayers. I know he just got a new Graco HVLP sprayer that is amazing. Not sure of the model number or anything. I believe the bookshelf you are talking about is the black built-in units beside the stone fireplace? It was finished on site. The copper accent/distressing was applied after the fact, freehand, by Rolly. It looks stunning in person. When he sprayed the units, he basically built a plastic room around them to control dust. I am very ready to do it again. I am currently working on a website that I'm hoping will really help get my name out there, and I'm trying to get other builders to take a look. Unfortunately, the economy here in Michigan is HORRENDOUS and work is kinda slow at the moment. Waiting to hear back about another cabinet job, but budget may price me out of that one. We will see.
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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Dan Clermont
Festool Dealer
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Location: Vancouver / Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 973
Canadian Festool Dealer
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2008, 08:00 PM » |
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Nice job on the cabinets Sparky. I'd like to be your apprentice!  Dan Clermont
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Canadian Festool Dealer and User!!! 778-558-7745
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ccmviking
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 362
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2008, 12:22 AM » |
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Sparky,
A lot of the work looks really good. Congrat's on getting the business kicked off and getting a pay check. You're going to do great. I for one like how there are different finishes. We are not big fans of having all the cabinets in the house matching with the same wood/finish. Did all the flooring go in first or something in the kitchen? I don't see any qtr rnd or shoe at the bottom of the kitchen cabinets. Again great job and you should be really proud of what you've done.
Constructive Feedback... Read it only if you really want to...
Kitchen Of course you're at the Mercy of the customer and if they don't give the freedom, then what the heck. When I look at the cabinets around the window they just look too crowded. The kitchen cabinets are too close to the window. The window trim and cabinets and trim are very near each other. Try to leave 3"-4" around obstacles such as this. The upper cabinets to the right of the window should be the same size. See how one door is bigger than the other (should be more balanced)? My opinion is the island should not have had a toe space. Especially with the over hang you have for the bar side. It looks more like furniture if you flush it out and install a nice base molding around it. Those separate toe spaces are just hard to clean and easily trap debris. What height is everything set at? Looks like the uppers are higher than 54". Of course I can't tell in the photo's but you need to be careful with reach there. I know you didn't have anything to do with it, but I would want to shoot the electrician that would put so many boxes in the back splash of such a nice house. What a cluttered mess with all those single boxes. Sure you want things to be handy and you have to meet code but that's silly. But I would never install a freestanding range in a house like that either.
Master Bath Doing a full height door at a sink is up to you. Most people would rather not open a cabinet and see the bottom side of a sink but in most cases that's ok. That door is way too wide though. You can't even stand there and open it. If the size of the sink requires that large of a sink base, ok, but they should have been butt doors. You really have to think through "drawer" to "full height door" to "door and drawer combo" applications. Things need to look appealing and the whole scenery needs to have a flow to it. Again something the customer must dictate, but you can suggest. The drawers look too crowded at the tub. They probably still open ok but you've got a pinch point there.
Shared Bath Where's the drawer bases? Where's a girl or young woman to keep their blow dryer or or curling iron. I don't quite understand the handle placement on the drawers or why those huge doors line up in the center of the sink false front. It's a very confusing cabinet to look at. I don't know what went into design so who knows.
A lot of people can build stuff. It's a lot more work to design something that is functional as well as good looking and long lasting. We aren't perfect either but you really have to work with the customer on each job to ensure their needs are being met (short and long term). We don't like when people get a year or two down the road and go, " Oh, I didn't realize that was like that", or " I wonder why they did it that way". You can't make everyone happy, but if you go over enough about how things can be done and more importantly WHY they are done that way you'll get much referral work. We have so many customers that just go on and on thanking us for telling them NOT (talking them out of it) to do something they were thinking about doing and the reason/s behind it.
Chris...
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Mirko
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 394
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2008, 12:39 AM » |
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"Any fool can criticize condemn and complain and most fools do" - Dale Carnegie
Mirko
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Eiji Fuller
Retailer
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Location: San Diego, CA Member Since: Feb 2007
Posts: 1087
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2008, 01:18 AM » |
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Mirko, You know I respect you a great deal. I think you are being a little harsh with Chris. I know compliments and edification are great and I enjoy giving them and receiving them. But if all we say, when someone posts some work,"Great job, looks great!, and BTW what finish did you use?" We do all a dis-service. You cant learn from compliments. They feel good but that is about it. I want to hear how I could do it better the next time around. I ask for constructive comments on my threads and feel that if we cant post constructive comments than what is the point.
Eiji
Chris,
You could have been a little gentler with your comments.
Eiji
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 01:26 AM by Eiji Fuller »
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Mirko
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 394
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2008, 01:58 AM » |
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Eiji, I just don't like to see people who are starting out to be criticized like that publicly, I would have just sent him a PM. Sparky is very proud of what he built or he wouldn't have posted the picks, these pics will be a great tool for him, his customers will point out what they don't like. (they always do) besides he will learn on his own with time, what works well or looks good. And as for you!  I'm having a free for all on your next job you post ha! ha! so look out  Mirko
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Eiji Fuller
Retailer
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Location: San Diego, CA Member Since: Feb 2007
Posts: 1087
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2008, 02:26 AM » |
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Eiji, I just don't like to see people who are starting out to be criticized like that publicly, I would have just sent him a PM. Sparky is very proud of what he built or he wouldn't have posted the picks, these pics will be a great tool for him, his customers will point out what they don't like. (they always do) besides he will learn on his own with time, what works well or looks good. And as for you!  I'm having a free for all on your next job you post ha! ha! so look out  Mirko Mirko, I see your point, but I think it is much faster if you can put the pride aside and learn on someone elses time. I think a PM would save the pride for one but would not help anyone else. This is a forum where we all come to learn. Constructive comments, critical or not, help everyone that should read them more than the attaboys. I hope you give me some good ones.  Eiji
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 02:28 AM by Eiji Fuller »
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Mirko
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 394
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2008, 03:17 AM » |
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Ok here is something the positive posters should learn, that will help them sound more convincing!  Honest praise should include a explanation of a detail that you single out as the deciding factor, that warrants a positive post. I'll even give you an example  Sparky, You didn't waste any time, you jumped right in with a big one! you must be glad its over? well done I really like the shared bath vanity. False fronts are a pain in the butt, not here, I think you utilized the space well, usually I'm turned off by drawer fronts that do not line up with the doors, not here I think it looks good, and it definitely spruces it up, last thing you want is that kitchen look in the bathroom. If you had the chance to build one of these again, try adding dummy legs with a recessed kick behind to give it a free standing look, then it will look like furniture. and take away that modular appearance, for a more built in look. best of luck Mirko
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Eiji Fuller
Retailer
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Location: San Diego, CA Member Since: Feb 2007
Posts: 1087
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2008, 03:44 AM » |
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A+ for possitive constructive feedback. 
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Sparky977
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Location: Hastings, MI Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 82
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2008, 07:11 AM » |
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Thank you all very much for the feedback, both positive AND constructive. I mean that. A lot of the things Chris mentioned, I hadn't really thought about. At the same time though, I was going off the designers drawings. This is a spec house, and this builder always uses the same design team. One thing I do know, the design team are no slouches. But the builder does not have enough experience. There are so many things I wish he would do differently! But tying to tell him that never works. He lives in his own little imaginary world where he does everything perfectly.  Oh, and not to mention the things he changes which affects everything else, like the Master bath tub. I ended up having to squeeze that all in there, and yeah, the drawes and tub are most certainly a pinch point. I definitely agree about the island and not putting a toe kick on it. That probably is my single biggest regret on this house. The shared bath, personally, I really like the look how it turned out, but I would agree, there probably is not enough drawer space. Handle placement, ahh yes. Another genius move by the builder in the hardware he chose. I told him that the drawers were too small for pulls, they would need knobs, but he doesn't listen. And I was sick and tired of dealing with him enough at that point, so I didn't press the issue. Lets just say, my patience with this builder is quite short after this job. If I were at a point where I had lots of work, I wouldn't deal with him again. Unfortunately, things utterly suck in Michigan right now. Its quite hard to be picky with a family to feed. Thank you guys again, and don't be afraid to give me constructive feedback. I learn a lot that way. If you aren't learning, you aren't growing. Sparky
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TS 55, RO 125, CT 22 w/ Boomarm, Domino, OF 1400, RS2E, C12, MFT3, 4 guide rails (1080, 1400, 1900, and 2700), Sortainer, Router bit Systainer, Sandpaper Systainer, Domino Systainer
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ccmviking
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 362
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2008, 09:26 AM » |
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Mirko, You know I respect you a great deal. I think you are being a little harsh with Chris. I know compliments and edification are great and I enjoy giving them and receiving them. But if all we say, when someone posts some work,"Great job, looks great!, and BTW what finish did you use?" We do all a dis-service. You cant learn from compliments. They feel good but that is about it. I want to hear how I could do it better the next time around. I ask for constructive comments on my threads and feel that if we cant post constructive comments than what is the point.
Eiji
Chris,
You could have been a little gentler with your comments.
Eiji
I know, It's all those years spent working in a corporate world where everyone's an . All I did was go around finding problems and getting people to deal with them or dealing with them myself. I put all my own work through the same scrutiny. It doesn't make for many peaceful and relaxing days I tell you. I tried to make it evident by the feedback that I wasn't saying Sparky did the design. There are however a lot of design issue that could be addressed. Since this was his first job I didn't know if he was thinking that much about it or just nervous as heck. We take pictures of a lot of stuff like this and we learn from it, and also review with designers. We want everyone to learn. We are in our local phone book under cabinet repairs so we get called out to try and remedy peoples unfortunate situations. We've had our, "let's don't do that again moments", and it doesn't feel good. Mirko, I'll work on a softer approach but I was trying to be helpful. It's hard to sit and type so much when you just worked 13 hours and it's hotter than heck out. Sparky you did wonderful on the cabinet job. Chris...
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greg mann
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Location: Michigan Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1126
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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2008, 11:10 AM » |
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Personally, I think this has been a great exchange between two pros with different perspectives, both showing a willingness to consider their differences and reach common ground, all with the intention of helping a 'new guy', who has taken the observations with a very positive attitude. Fog at its best. Good work by all.
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Greg Mann Oakland, Michigan
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Dan Rush
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Location: Chicago, Il. USA Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 535
Trim carpenter
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2008, 12:31 PM » |
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Sparky, I dig your work. As a cabinet guy myself ( just installs, no fabrication) I've worked with designers and builders you described, but I sure hope this builder here doesn't read the FOG  . (especially if you want to work for him again) Nice work, Dan PS. Great idea getting pros to shoot the pics.
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 12:32 PM by Dan Rush »
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Justin F.
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Location: Louisiana Member Since: Dec 2007
Posts: 311
Louisiana, USA
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2008, 12:37 PM » |
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I appreciate this exchange and how it has worked out. One of my issues is the inability to receive criticism well ---- it never comes across as constructive no matter how it is worded (my brain can change the most innocuous statement into a biting critique). I think Chris was trying to set up his criticism with his warning ..... nice touch..... and Sparky has taken Chris's advice with grace ----- showing he has a pair . Well done guys. P.S. As a new guy lurking around mostly on this forum , this kind of thing makes me want to stick around ------ as opposed to a lot of the interpersonal rivalry that has expressed itself of late ---- most of which I don't understand. But if the established members here care about the recruiting of new members, this show of men behaving ..... well like men ..... is a good sign of a healthy and valuable forum. So keep on keeping on.  . Justin
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" The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding. "
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Barry Londrigan
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Location: Central Ohio Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 179
Newark, Ohio
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2008, 04:01 PM » |
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I second that Greg....and Chris good job with the courage to post your experience with design. Those are the kind of answers we all look for so that we can all improve!
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promhandicam
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Location: Surrey, UK Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 95
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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2008, 04:20 PM » |
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Well done Sparky on a great job and great photos too. Well done too to Chris for what I thought was very well thought out comments. I hope that when I am eventually in a position to post a completed job, where festool tools have been used, I will get as intelligent and insightful remarks as the ones given in this thread, and that I will be able to take them with good grace as Sparky has done. I hope this is an example of the sort of threads that are desired on this forum rather than the vitriolic outpourings that has been too much in evidence since I joined - I just hope that the two aren't connected  Cheers, Steve
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wnagle
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Location: Akron, Ohio USA Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 502
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« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2008, 11:05 PM » |
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Sparky, I think you did a great job on this project... way out of my league for sure and Chris I learned a lot from your critique, things that I didn't notice when I first looked at the pics. I am self taught and appreciate learning from others and not always learning on the job where it cost more. thanks to both of you!
wayne
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Wayne
TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120.
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