Author Topic: Installing LED strips and other LED issues  (Read 4216 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bernmc

  • Posts: 43
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2019, 05:50 PM »
Hey @Bernmc would you be able to run multiple reed switches to the relay?

Is there a practical limit on the number?

Yes, you could just parallel them, as long as you want the situation where any switch powers the same LEDs (eg any drawer switches on all the lights, as in Raj’s requirement). They’re only activating the relay, so you could have as many as you want - it’s the other side of the relay doing the heavy lifting.


Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6006
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2019, 01:05 AM »
1. So if I wanted to eliminate the battery and only have it powered from AC, does the relay need to be spec'd for that (because it would see 120VAC)? 
2. Same for the reed switch? 
3. And any guesses if any wood can be present between the magnet and switch? 
4. The idea would be to conceal all the switch elements so it's not obvious how the light is activated, other than the movement of the door (that's why I didn't look at the microswitches, I think it would be impossible to conceal them).

4. So Raj, let's start with the easiest answer first, if i'm understanding you correctly, you want this project to perform virtual MAGIC for your wife to justify why you spend so much time on the FOG.  [poke]   Ya ...I get that.  [smile]

1. I have limited experience with solid state relays but I believe you need to match the incoming voltage. They are pretty cool and certainly blow away the traditional variety. They're so small and so quiet. @Bernmc may want to chime in here.  [smile]

2. Reed switches are usually rated by current capacity, but because in your application the reed switch is only being used as a signal carrying switch and not as a current carrying switch, current capacity really doesn't matter.

3. There can be some wood between the magnet and the reed switch. It all depends upon the strength of the magnet and the distance of it from the reed switch. Trial & error are the words to live by here. Just play around with it and you'll get the feel. Also understand that the lineal position of the magnet relative to the reed switch can make a difference because the position of it determines the size and the force of the magnetic field. That's the reason I fabbed up that "mini drawer" to experiment with the positional issues between the magnet and the reed switch.

We'll be interested in your results.

This is the unit I use for adjusting brightness. It's really tiny.



https://www.luxeonstar.com/500ma-externally-dimmable-buckpuck-dc-driver-leads

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1590
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2019, 06:43 AM »
Thank you @Cheese and @Bernmc , I fear I’ve stepped into another rabbit hole.  Just another day at the office I guess.   [smile] And Cheese, “magic” is dead on!  Since nothing is built yet, I have complete control (1% influence) over the design parameters of this little project.  Once I identify the bits I need, I can modify (ask for permission) the cabinet to accommodate the magic beans. 

And sorry, I think these unique requirements went outside the scope of your multi part series.  I can create another thread if you want to keep this one simple?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 06:45 AM by RKA »
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6006
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2019, 10:21 AM »
Raj if you're looking for plug & play, you may want to consider some various Diode LED products. An assembled product would include everything you need except for the driver and switching mechanism. They have a new product called Spotmod Slik LED Panels.



They also offer fully assembled light bars.
https://www.diodeled.com/cascade-led-light-bar.html
https://www.diodeled.com/tru-link.html

Puck lights.
https://www.diodeled.com/triant-led-puck-light.html

Or just generally assembled product.
https://www.diodeled.com/products/fixtures.html

Sensors & dimmers.
https://www.diodeled.com/products/led-control.html

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6006
5. Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2019, 11:48 PM »
I've had led strips explode and catch fire in the past which worried me, they were covered in a kind of clear plastic sheath which i guess insulated them.

So @Russty , this response goes back to your previous experiences. I assume the LEDs you're talking about were waterproof LEDs. If so they probably had a profile that looked similar to this.



Well the supplier of these LEDs suggested I just remove the liner of the VHB double stick tape and adhere this to any substrate I wanted to. So I did. I routed out some channels in stretchers that were part of a cabinet assembly and adhered the LEDs to the wooden stretchers after sealing the channels with 2 coats of sanding sealer.

I then decided to "burn in" the LEDs for a couple of days just to make sure everything was copacetic. So after 2 days of continual activation they looked like this.



Day 3 looked like this.



Day 4 looked like this.



And day 5 is when I decided to intercede.



Upon closer inspection you can see burn marks on the LED covering. Even more surprising is that some are burned, some are really burned and some are not burned at all. That's the way it's always been with semiconductors, "catch as catch can."  They're all individual entities and they all age differently and in this particular incident, produce different levels of light and different levels of heat.

You'll also notice that they've been adhered to a wooden substrate. That's a big part of the problem. Wood is an insulator and it absorbs a minimum amount of heat and radiates none. The silicone waterproof barrier over the LED puts the final death knell on this product.

This LED can't rid its heat from the top and it can't rid its heat from the bottom. It just sits there and cooks. Possibly, if it's in a water bath it may survive, however that's not how these are commonly used. They're typically used outside when moisture is a problem.

I do think however, if these were placed on an aluminum heatsink, these issues would be mitigated to some degree. Keep them cool is a mantra.




« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 09:56 AM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6006
6. Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2019, 11:02 AM »
Here's a good article on drivers & power supplies. They also talk about Constant Voltage CV versus Constant Current CC. The subject of dimmers is also talked about.

https://www.ledsupply.com/blog/understanding-led-drivers/

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6006
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2019, 12:07 PM »
Can you put one of those 40 watt Meanwell drivers in a wall box? If so, would you switch the power to the driver or the output to the led’s?

Hey @Michael Kellough I just received a 20 watt Meanwell for an edge lit bathroom shelf project. Here's how it compares to the 60 watt and a single electrical box.


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3943
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2019, 01:11 PM »
Thanks! Excellent provision of information, as usual.

Offline Russty

  • Posts: 18
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2019, 04:31 AM »
that is definitely consistent with what happened to mine, they were clipped across joists so were technically in free air so lasted a bit longer, i cant remember how long exactly but i reckon about 4 or 5 months before they started to dim and then a few more months before they started to pop and catch fire.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1269
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2019, 10:52 AM »
... 4 or 5 months before they started to dim and then a few more months before they started to pop and catch fire.
They what?


Offline usernumber1

  • Posts: 40
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2019, 12:14 PM »
not sure where you're getting your led from; after messing around with numerous local suppliers and chinese deals, all my installs are going to be from armacost only. their LEDs are up to spec and i have not see any burnouts.

i think leevalley also uses them as a supplier. they are definitely premium priced but sometimes there's a sale from their site

i should add the installs have some spec requirements, so for example you may need aluminum housing for cooling purposes, etc. depending on power, length of run, etc. there's other things : they provide technical docs

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6006
Re: Installing LED strips and other LED issues
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2019, 02:30 PM »
Glossed over thread saw about heatsinks etc. Found this https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/aluminum-channels/klus-b1888-micro-alu-series-surface-mount-aluminum-led-profile-housing/1020/4785/?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=base&utm_content=B1888&utm_campaign=GoogleBaseChild&gclid=Cj0KCQjwnpXmBRDUARIsAEo71tS1sKb4alua32CQ-Wv8ztLrZLdUJhIbkOWGyRphRIWfUjGuLxbxX0gaAssyEALw_wcB

The extrusion you noted is manufactured by Klus. Nothing wrong with their products, it's good German stuff. They produce a variety of various aluminum extrusions and I'm using one of theirs for a an edge lit glass shelf in a bath.

I tend to use all DIODE LED products when I can because of their track record. I've used them for the last 6-7 years and haven't had any issues.  It's currently used mostly by commercial fabricators in the kitchen, bath and lighting arenas.

https://www.diodeled.com

Interestingly enough as a comparison, the Klus 39" long extrusion you pointed out costs $33.90 with a frosted cover.
The DIODE LED 48" long extrusion costs $23.50 with a frosted cover. If I had a commercial account, I could probably get a 10%-15% discount.