Author Topic: My first project  (Read 4178 times)

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Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
My first project
« on: January 11, 2018, 10:27 AM »
I built a small shop (20'x20') last summer and I am ready to tackle my first project.

I am making a Kapex stand similar to the one Dave Stanton (thanks for the inspiration Dave) have in his shop. I will post picture during the process, if I can find out how  [blink].

Last night I cut out the parts for the Systainers drawers (25). The sides, front and back are 50mm (2") in height I made a 6mm dado at the bottom to slide the bottom part. The systainers will fit snuggly in the drawers.

I need your advice for assembly. I am not comfortable enough to use drawers lock joint or any other fancy joinery type yet. Should I use dominos or pocket hole?

I thought about Dominos because it would make me learn that tool (purchased a few weeks ago) in the process.

Your thought!

Mario
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline rst

  • Posts: 1764
Re: My first project
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 10:28 AM »
definitely Domino

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4217
Re: My first project
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 12:16 PM »
Domino...definitely

Photo 1 = storage boxes for upstairs storage.

Photo 2 = under-bed storage boxes.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 12:45 PM »
Thanks for your reply, that's what I thought Domino all the way.

@Cheese ole macaroni, this is nifty. Where do you got those little wheels from?
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4217
Re: My first project
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 01:12 PM »
Where do you got those little wheels from?

Those are referred to as bed box wheels. They used to be sold by everyone, everywhere. Then Hafele quit selling them and everyone followed suit...weird. Those were the last 10 sets that I purchased from Woodcraft about 3-4 years ago. I made a phone call and they commandeered the last ones available from 3 different stores in 3 different states.

This next photo shows storage boxes in the shop. Each one holds 15-20# of equipment. Tightbond III and Dominos only, everything is still solid after 6-7 years of pulling them down and then returning them to their location.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 07:56 PM »
Very nice. Are the tenons made of walnut?

What size/ratio you use. Say my wood is 15mm thick, would you go with 6mm or 8mm?
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline sac3848

  • Posts: 40
Re: My first project
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 08:36 PM »
6

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 09:00 PM »
6

Thank you :)

Tomorrow I am visiting the local Lee Valley to get the tenons and a router plane to clean all the bad dados I made  [embarassed]
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline eddomak

  • Posts: 296
Re: My first project
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 09:25 PM »
Since you have the Domino, then definitely use the Domino to do the drawers. It's a good starter project for the Domino to learn the ins and outs, and low risk if you get something wrong.

If you haven't seen it already, do a search for "domi drawers" or "domino drawers" and you will see some more examples where the domino shows through rather than being concealed. I tried this for the first time two weeks ago and below is a picture that I took at the time.

Rather than do it in 2 stages I tried a method where I glued and pinned the box together, did a single plunge all the way through both pieces, glued/inserted the domino, then trimmed off the excess.



Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 08:31 AM »
Since you have the Domino, then definitely use the Domino to do the drawers. It's a good starter project for the Domino to learn the ins and outs, and low risk if you get something wrong.

If you haven't seen it already, do a search for "domi drawers" or "domino drawers" and you will see some more examples where the domino shows through rather than being concealed. I tried this for the first time two weeks ago and below is a picture that I took at the time.

Rather than do it in 2 stages I tried a method where I glued and pinned the box together, did a single plunge all the way through both pieces, glued/inserted the domino, then trimmed off the excess.

This is what I am looking for. Thanks for the tip
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4217
Re: My first project
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 10:39 AM »
Very nice. Are the tenons made of walnut?

What size/ratio you use. Say my wood is 15mm thick, would you go with 6mm or 8mm?

The tenons are standard Festool Sipo. I used 5mm Dominos in 1/2" thick material.

I also made a jig that held 2 of the sides in position so that I could plunge through both sides at the same time. That eliminates any DF placement & registration issues. So just mount the sides to the fixture 2 at a time, label the sides so you know how they pair up, plunge the mortises and when all 4 sides have been mortised, then do the final assembly/glue-up.

As already mentioned, I'd use 6mm Dominos.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 11:11 AM »
The tenons are standard Festool Sipo. I used 5mm Dominos in 1/2" thick material.

I also made a jig that held 2 of the sides in position so that I could plunge through both sides at the same time. That eliminates any DF placement & registration issues. So just mount the sides to the fixture 2 at a time, label the sides so you know how they pair up, plunge the mortises and when all 4 sides have been mortised, then do the final assembly/glue-up.

As already mentioned, I'd use 6mm Dominos.

Care to share a picture of your jig?

Right now I don't have a MFT or a real bench to clamp so I am really limited in that area. Any particular reason you are using sipo for drawers?
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4217
Re: My first project
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 12:02 PM »

Care to share a picture of your jig?

Any particular reason you are using sipo for drawers?

I looked for the jig...I must have trashed it.  [sad]  It was just 2 pieces of 3/4” ply secured at right angles with Dominos (what else) and Destaco clamps were mounted to secure the drawer sides. I clamped it to the drill press table so that the vertical leg of the jig could hang off the edge. A long wood guide was attached to both of the legs of the jig so that the drawer sides were always properly aligned. I also had side stops for the DF 500 so that both mortises were always in the same relative location. If the jig shows up, I’ll post a photo.

I used Sipo for the contrast...that’s all.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2018, 01:58 PM »
I think I got it! I will make one for sure because I have 25 drawers waiting  [eek]

Your jig something like that
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 03:56 PM by Mario Turcot »
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 11:41 PM »
Quick update, I made drawers first since I figure it was going to be the most tedious part. There we go 25 drawers ready to get a nice finish. I am very happy how accurate it turns out, especially on that scale. I never been able to get something that accurate before.

I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4217
Re: My first project
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2018, 10:27 AM »
Nice...that's a lot of drawers. [tongue]

We'd be interested in seeing photos of the final project when it's finished.  [big grin]

Offline eddomak

  • Posts: 296
Re: My first project
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2018, 04:12 AM »
That is indeed a lot of drawers - I guess you're a master of this technique now.  [big grin] Well done!

(and like the others, I would love to see any photos you can post later in the project).


Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2018, 01:14 PM »
Will do.

This weekend I am fixing the bottom drawers, some finishing and slides. I should work on the carcass as well :)
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2018, 09:49 AM »
while applying Danish Oil on the drawers I realized how small is the shop  [blink] I cannot do anything but wait for that step to be done  >:(

Hope to cut and put together the cabinets carcass by the end of the weekend. At that point I should have some pictures to show off  [big grin]

Each cabinet will have three hubs for systainer drawers. Here my planning for the carcass, please let me know if I am going in the right direction or if I omit anything;

- Rabbet for 12mm back
- Rabbet on each ends and dados for hubs separators 18mm
- Dominos joinery 8mm
- 4 inches toekick with integrated adjustable glides


LeeValley Glides
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2018, 08:24 AM »
Took a long time but here a picture of the first cabinet carcass. This is a dry fit and I am pleased with the result. I still have to make the dominos and some work with the LR32 rail.
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: My first project
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2018, 08:51 PM »
Mario,
thank you for sharing the progress and the thinking behind it. It will be a helpful thread for some of the newer FOG readers who may be considering something like this.

I would share one tip I got from Tom Gensmer: he made his vertial drawerslide hole pattern on 16 (!) mm centers so as to have naximum flexibility in arranging different combinations of Systainer heights without running out of just a tiny bit of space. Not practical to add more holes later.

please keep posting!

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2332
Re: My first project
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2018, 09:38 PM »
You are making great progress!  Thanks for sharing your build. 

What's going in the space behind the drawers?  I assume this unit will go against a wall.  It looks like you have plenty of space behind the front set of drawers.  Agree with Hans point on 16mm holes if you can do it.  Gives you a lot more adjustment flexibility. 

Assume you are aware you can buy 5mm euro screws for drawer glide that are shorter to enable back to back screws on the interior panels.

Look forward to following this!

neil

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2018, 10:14 PM »
You guys made me smile  [big grin] and thank you!

It is hard to see from the picture but the two end panels have holes already in the front. I made holes from the bottom up to 30mm at the top. I went that high because I want the flexibility to add a pulling shelve to rest tools etc just a flat surface that I can retract when not needed.

Hans, I was using the LR32 rail for the first time. To those that wonder how hard it is to setup, heck if I did it YOU can. Frankly easy, the hardest was to figure out the front hole based on the sliders you are going to use and voila. Because I was learning the LR32 I made hole at every index. Are you suggesting to make then in between too? The cabinet is not glued yet so I am open to suggestion :)

Neil, quite funny that you mention that I went to the shop and check the space and there is enough room to hold 2 systainers. If ever I come to have that many I know what to do :)

And yes I have the three (length) in 5mm EURO screws already :)

The next step is to make the dominos to hold the ends from the top and bottom. The dominos will be visible on the top unless I put a sheet of arborite, not decided yet. I went to the lumber yard today and got some BB 9mm for the backs. I cut a rabbit already. I know that I made that build more complicated that it needs to be but I want to learn as many tools as I can during that project.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 10:17 PM by Mario Turcot »
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: My first project
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2018, 11:40 PM »
Mario - YES, an additional 5mm shelf pin holes between the regular 32mm centers.
Just shift the LR-32 Rail "north" by 16 mm and run another set of holes - and say thank you to Tom Gensmer - a really savvy craftsman who is too busy to devote as much time to the FOG these days.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3469
Re: My first project
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2018, 09:27 AM »
Took a long time but here a picture of the first cabinet carcass. This is a dry fit and I am pleased with the result. I still have to make the dominos and some work with the LR32 rail.


Mario,
     If you're planning on using drawer glides, I'd suggest that before you do a glue-up, understand the hole patterns of the specific glides that you're going to use.  Example: I use Accuride glides that place their first hole from the front at the standard 37mm increment, then space subsequent holes at 128mm, 128mm, 96mm, and 128mm increments.  It's a piece of cake to line bore for these holes using the LR 32 before glue-up, but a royal pain to do it afterwards.  I wish I had done that before gluing up my version of the Sysport years ago. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2018, 01:48 PM »
Mario - YES, an additional 5mm shelf pin holes between the regular 32mm centers.
Just shift the LR-32 Rail "north" by 16 mm and run another set of holes - and say thank you to Tom Gensmer - a really savvy craftsman who is too busy to devote as much time to the FOG these days.

Hans

Will do, and thank you to you & Tom :D

Mario,
     If you're planning on using drawer glides, I'd suggest that before you do a glue-up, understand the hole patterns of the specific glides that you're going to use.  Example: I use Accuride glides that place their first hole from the front at the standard 37mm increment, then space subsequent holes at 128mm, 128mm, 96mm, and 128mm increments.  It's a piece of cake to line bore for these holes using the LR 32 before glue-up, but a royal pain to do it afterwards.  I wish I had done that before gluing up my version of the Sysport years ago. 

Absolutely, all holes will be bored prior to glue up. I already bought the sliders (35mm) and the front and subsequent holes are at 37mm, 128mm and 96mm.

@Sparktrician While we are at it, would you make two or three holes. Those will be used solely for systainers.
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3469
Re: My first project
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2018, 02:00 PM »
Mario,
     If you're planning on using drawer glides, I'd suggest that before you do a glue-up, understand the hole patterns of the specific glides that you're going to use.  Example: I use Accuride glides that place their first hole from the front at the standard 37mm increment, then space subsequent holes at 128mm, 128mm, 96mm, and 128mm increments.  It's a piece of cake to line bore for these holes using the LR 32 before glue-up, but a royal pain to do it afterwards.  I wish I had done that before gluing up my version of the Sysport years ago. 

Absolutely, all holes will be bored prior to glue up. I already bought the sliders (35mm) and the front and subsequent holes are at 37mm, 128mm and 96mm.

@Sparktrician While we are at it, would you make two or three holes. Those will be used solely for systainers.

@Mario Turcot, I would use all three.  I'm trained as an engineer, and naturally a belt and suspenders sort.   [big grin]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2018, 02:36 PM »
@Mario Turcot, I would use all three.  I'm trained as an engineer, and naturally a belt and suspenders sort.   [big grin]

Excellent, will do what the engineer said :P
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3469
Re: My first project
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2018, 05:54 PM »
@Mario Turcot, I would use all three.  I'm trained as an engineer, and naturally a belt and suspenders sort.   [big grin]

Excellent, will do what the engineer said :P

Look at it this way - the glides I often use (Accuride 3832C) are rated at up to 100# capacity.  Would you want them depending on four or six screws to hold the potential weight?  (Just one ol' faht's opinion...)   [big grin]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2018, 09:37 AM »
Finally put together the base cabinets for the Kapex station. I was going to shoot the mistakes but 127 pictures won't fit in a thread :P

276942-0276944-1

More to come, Mario
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 182
Re: My first project
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2018, 09:43 AM »
Finally put together the base cabinets for the Kapex station. I was going to shoot the mistakes but 127 pictures won't fit in a thread :P

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

More to come, Mario

Looks great!  I love the feeling of seeing projects come to completion.  Looks well organized and super convenient.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 238
Re: My first project
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2018, 08:44 AM »
Thank you Dick.

Here a little update. All three units are separate with glides feet. That way it's easy to move if needed and adjust with the Kapex bed. I screwed 1/4" hardboard on the tops.

That part is almost done, only edge bending left and one drawer to fix/adjust. The next part will be storage wall cabinets for hardware on each side of the Kapex.

I still have to come up with an easy way to clean the dust around the saw. I will probably add a small drawer under the saw for accessories. There is a heater under the saw so I am a bit limited with the space in that area.

Mario
I like to learn from others mistakes and I also like to learn from the Masters.