Author Topic: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!  (Read 26851 times)

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Offline Coach.carpenter

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My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« on: September 04, 2016, 04:37 PM »
Good evening all,

I have introduced myself here before but for those of you who may not have seen then here it is. My name is Greg and i'm a cabinet maker / finishing carpenter who's been in business around 18 months now. In the beginning the plan was to be mainly workshop based and invest all my (little) money into getting myself a full workshop, however over the last 18 months i've discovered that it's very difficult to start from nothing and have a) enough work to warrant a full workshop and b) savings to afford high end workshop machinery. As a consequence i have ended more site based (residential and shop fitting)

To be honest I enjoy it, a lot. I miss being in the workshop but I find it very difficult to keep motivation all the time and find myself procrastinating making projects that don't earn me any money.

Seeing as though almost all of my money has now gone onto investing in mobile and portable equipment. The one thing I have missed more than anything else is a decent solid workbench to work from. I've tried trestles but its not even close, workmates are equally no good. So I decided that I would borrow an MFT/3 from a friend for a week to see how I got on with it and in all honesty, I liked it, but I couldn't get on with it as I needed more out of my workbench. The things that didn't work for me are as follows:

1) I use my workbench as a sort of centre of setup type of area. This means that I spend most of my time working from it, be it cutting / routing / sanding or simply planning and organising my setup. The MFT for me fell down here as its a great bench but i want more storage options, and more adaptability.

2) Working mainly finish carpentry I fit a lot of doors. A lot and I like to have a setup where I can do everything in one spot. Cut, install hardware and plane to then be taken away  to hang. The MFT is perfect for cutting the doors but where it falls down for me is there is no where to securely hold the door on its end for the routing of hinges etc.

3) Hand planing puts an awful lot of lateral force on the workbench and I don't like a bench that has movement in it when i'm planing.

So there's my brief now it's time to put my experiences into practice and design something that suits my needs! Here is what I came up with.

It's a birch ply workbench, with a shelf, with side mounts for doors, with tool tote for to keep my bench dogs and other small tools off the worktop, an MDF top with 96 centred 20mm dog holes. Most importantly it fold to less that 90mm thick. it takes 20 seconds to put up and slides into my van when not in use. Most importantly this thing is strong, and i mean strong! There is no lateral movement what so ever. I've been using both the mk1 prototype and mk2 prototype for nearly 6 months now and I really don't know how i lived without it. For me, its everything I need.

I've already thought of a million accessories to go with it, and I plan on developing this further. I have started the process to putting it on the market as i truly believe that its a good idea. What do you think? would you have one? What would you do differently? I will record a short video of me putting it up and performing some basic operations if anyone is interested?





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Offline Holmz

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2016, 04:49 PM »
Yes please...

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2016, 04:54 PM »
Yes please...

That was positive! Glad you like it. Would you be interested in a video?

Offline Sal LiVecchi

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2016, 05:07 PM »
Would like to see video
And would like the workbench also
You going to make
Plans available for sale or complete units
Life is too short and the road is too long to drive anything less than a Festool

Offline Wooden Skye

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2016, 05:09 PM »
Great looking bench!  Would like to see a video setting up and taking down, as well as some work activities, like use with hand planes.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2016, 05:13 PM »
Would like to see video
And would like the workbench also
You going to make
Plans available for sale or complete units

Okay i'll sort a video out over the next couple of days and upload it to YouTube. As for the market side of it - I'm looking at extending my Chestnut furniture business into this sort of thing. practical solutions for woodworkers and their projects. I've had a couple CNC cut and I'm currently trailing them and i'll see how i get on. I like the idea of having a product line. Failing that I have also been working on plans (My original intention), so if it doesn't go anywhere then i will definitely release the plans.


Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2016, 05:16 PM »
Great looking bench!  Would like to see a video setting up and taking down, as well as some work activities, like use with hand planes.

Righto I'll get on it. The beauty of the top being on a mortice and tenon style system is that it pops on and off very easily. I'm actually using auto cad as we speak to design a router table variant with dust extraction... I use a router a lot of the time on shop fit-outs and i miss having a decent router table. This kills two birds

Offline neilc

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2016, 05:43 PM »
Nice design.  Are the top and side holes all 20mm?  The side holes look a little bigger.  I'd probably suggest making them the same size and sticking with 20mm to fit accessories most Festool users already have.

The mortise / tenon attachment of the top should help with stability.  overall it appears it would be very sturdy!

I'm wondering about some kind of bungee cord mechanism to further secure the pieces together for transport, but also useful for securing them when assembled to further strengthen the stability.  Could easily cut in a few slots that the cords could slip into and be captive with a knot.

Thanks for sharing.

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2016, 06:16 PM »
The side holes are 30mm but that's intentional. I had them at 20mm originally the problem I have with that is getting accessories to lock down into position and be strong enough. It'll become more clear in the video. I could have kept them 20mm and then had a threaded dog and then a m8 knob on the back but the idea with this is everything is quick and easy and i don't have to worry about screwing and unscrewing. I hope that makes sense?

I have bought a few large buckle type straps which i'm going to experiment with to hold everything together. As for the strength i really mean it when i say this thing literally does not budge. It's as strong as a traditional carpenters bench. I know this because i've had 240kg sat on top of it and it didn't move.

I like the idea of incorporating the strap into the bench though so it doesn't get lost or get in the way, something worth thinking about.

Thanks for the feedback! This is exactly what i'm looking for.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2016, 07:57 PM »
Great looking bench.  What tools do you need in your arsenal to make such a bench?

Peter

Offline Tinker

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2016, 08:24 PM »
I like it.  What is the weight for the fold up parts?
Since it is meant to be very portable, maybe a couple of hand slots in the top and the shelf, as they do not appear to be folded with the base parts.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Svar

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2016, 12:28 AM »
This is simply brilliant. Exellent design from structural standpoint. Easy assembly / dissassembly in just couple moves.
I understand why you made top overhang, but having the edge of worksurface flush with legs (front and back only) has its benefits for vertical clamping. By the way it'll still work structurally almost as well.
Thank you for posting.
P.S.  Some might prefer another (second) shelf mid height. Should not be hard to add.
P.P.S.  A delux version could have t-slot extrusion along front and back
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 01:01 AM by Svar »

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2016, 01:36 AM »
I like it.  What is the weight for the fold up parts?
Since it is meant to be very portable, maybe a couple of hand slots in the top and the shelf, as they do not appear to be folded with the base parts.
Tinker

Hi Peter,

My origonal prototypes were made wierea 30mm forstner. A 12mm straight 1/8 router bit. A track saw. A 120mm doameter paint  can for the radius corners. A jigsaw and for the top is a mft3 replacement top which i had off ebay and finally a lot of careful marking out.

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2016, 01:40 AM »
I like it.  What is the weight for the fold up parts?
Since it is meant to be very portable, maybe a couple of hand slots in the top and the shelf, as they do not appear to be folded with the base parts.
Tinker

Hi Peter,

My origonal prototypes were made wierea 30mm forstner. A 12mm straight 1/8 router bit. A track saw. A 120mm doameter paint  can for the radius corners. A jigsaw and for the top is a mft3 replacement top which i had off ebay and finally a lot of careful marking out.
[/quote

Misquoted sorry

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2016, 01:43 AM »
I like it.  What is the weight for the fold up parts?
Since it is meant to be very portable, maybe a couple of hand slots in the top and the shelf, as they do not appear to be folded with the base parts.
Tinker

The whole assembly weighs 28kg. The shelf has hand slots and the top ive been using the mortices as a finger slot. I was worried about puttig a handslot as it may effect functonality as a worktop?

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2016, 01:54 AM »
This is simply brilliant. Exellent design from structural standpoint. Easy assembly / dissassembly in just couple moves.
I understand why you made top overhang, but having the edge of worksurface flush with legs (front and back only) has its benefits for vertical clamping. By the way it'll still work structurally almost as well.
Thank you for posting.
P.S.  Some might prefer another (second) shelf mid height. Should not be hard to add.
P.P.S.  A delux version could have t-slot extrusion along front and back

Hi svar

Okay so j left an iverhang for two reasons. Strength from the viewpoint of the sides and long top rails not bowing outwards when heavy attatchments are added or a lot of force put on them laterally and also to protect the mortices in transport. This is always being thrown in and out of my van so i feel over time open ended mortices would get knocked and chipped when worked on.

Ill work on a design for a second shelf. I wonder if having more frame and a nother shelf would add another couple if kgs to the weight though?

Ah ha i was waiting for someone to say this. Im working on it. So the two long top rails front and back have 3 8mm holea drilled in them. This is fora t track to be bolted in. I have a 25mm section of birch ply with a ujk t track mounted flush to the top. It also has captive nuts in. It gets fixed to the sides with 3 (6 altogether) m8 plastic knobs.

Two things im working on. The t-track isnt long enough so im desperatly trying to find longer extrusions. Secondly and rather stupidly, i made the back of the tooltote too high so it wont slot on with the t-track fixed. Easy fix and i need to ammend the drawing




Offline RJNeal

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2016, 08:07 AM »
Thanks Coach for sharing. That's a great, functional bench.
Rick
Have you walked your saw today?

Offline Holmz

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2016, 08:10 AM »
Yes please...

That was positive! Glad you like it. Would you be interested in a video?

Yes please.
My daughter is interested in starting out, so it looks like a good place to start.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2016, 12:53 PM »
Looks very good! At the very least you have a market of people happy to buy plans.

Offline Svar

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2016, 12:57 PM »
P.P.S.  A delux version could have t-slot extrusion along front and back

Ah ha i was waiting for someone to say this. Im working on it. So the two long top rails front and back have 3 8mm holea drilled in them. This is fora t track to be bolted in. I have a 25mm section of birch ply with a ujk t track mounted flush to the top. It also has captive nuts in. It gets fixed to the sides with 3 (6 altogether) m8 plastic knobs.
Two things im working on. The t-track isnt long enough so im desperatly trying to find longer extrusions. Secondly and rather stupidly, i made the back of the tooltote too high so it wont slot on with the t-track fixed. Easy fix and i need to ammend the drawing

Do you have 80/20 extrusions available in your area? Bosch-Rexroth makes nearly identical extrusions, could be easier to find in Europe. You could size your top overhang accordingly to easily mount/dismount the extrusion as on pics below. Would solve vertical clamping issue. Anyway, very elegant design you have there. Would not want to ruin the simplicity.

Offline luke1984

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2016, 04:10 PM »
looking good be a great addition to go with my mft.

Offline thylaxene

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2016, 06:29 PM »
Well done. Looks great and very practical.

So mark me down for interest in plans, CNC cut files, etc, even kits if shipping overseas is reasonable - which I doubt due to weight.

Cheers.

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2016, 02:07 AM »
P.P.S.  A delux version could have t-slot extrusion along front and back

Ah ha i was waiting for someone to say this. Im working on it. So the two long top rails front and back have 3 8mm holea drilled in them. This is fora t track to be bolted in. I have a 25mm section of birch ply with a ujk t track mounted flush to the top. It also has captive nuts in. It gets fixed to the sides with 3 (6 altogether) m8 plastic knobs.
Two things im working on. The t-track isnt long enough so im desperatly trying to find longer extrusions. Secondly and rather stupidly, i made the back of the tooltote too high so it wont slot on with the t-track fixed. Easy fix and i need to ammend the drawing

Do you have 80/20 extrusions available in your area? Bosch-Rexroth makes nearly identical extrusions, could be easier to find in Europe. You could size your top overhang accordingly to easily mount/dismount the extrusion as on pics below. Would solve vertical clamping issue. Anyway, very elegant design you have there. Would not want to ruin the simplicity.

I like that idea a lot. is that 80/20 extrusion 80mm x 20mm? if so I may be able to make that work. I don't want it to effect the functionality of the mounting holes. As you say I don't want to take away from the simplicity as I believe when things get to finicky and fiddly they just don't get used when out on a job as time is money.

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2016, 02:09 AM »
Well done. Looks great and very practical.

So mark me down for interest in plans, CNC cut files, etc, even kits if shipping overseas is reasonable - which I doubt due to weight.

Cheers.


thylaxene ,

I have very good connections with Australia, where abouts are you? I lived and traveled there for twelve months. There is a real possibility i could get a kit to you if you are really that interested.

Coachy

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2016, 02:12 AM »
looking good be a great addition to go with my mft.

Luke, It would be great for a side by side comparison actually to see what your thoughts are. It's measured 900mm high which i believe is the same as the MFT3.

Coachy

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2016, 09:18 AM »
"is that 80/20 extrusion 80mm x 20mm?"

No, that is just the name of a US company that makes extrusion similar to the basic mechanical elements that Bosch makes.

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2016, 06:13 PM »
Hey Guys,

I finally got round to doing a few videos - they are very quick demonstrations done at 10pm but they should give you a feel of what the bench is like.

Let me know what you think






Offline mwildt

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2016, 09:03 PM »
Looks great! No river dance ? (Just kidding)

How does it handle on an uneven floor or outside surface ?

Offline neilc

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2016, 10:42 PM »
Nice work.  Did not realize the outside pieces were all hinged together, which makes it MUCH easier to breakdown and assemble.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 09:28 AM by neilc »

Offline Nick561

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2016, 04:53 AM »
I'll buy plans and CNC file

Offline Holmz

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2016, 05:55 AM »
What are the spoked wheels on? An MG?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Svar

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2016, 02:30 PM »
Another thought: add rubber padding on the feet. Might help prevent movement while planing + moisture barrier.

Offline Wooden Skye

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2016, 04:38 PM »
Thanks for the videos, that is a great design and looks very stable.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2016, 02:08 AM »
Looks great! No river dance ? (Just kidding)

How does it handle on an uneven floor or outside surface ?

Haha i like that comment! As for uneven surfaces you have two options. I like to keep things simple so i just rotate the bench until its solid and if not i use hardwood wedges to even it up. I may make attatchments with leveling feet but in all honesty i like simplicity when im on a job and pratting around with turny feet is too much for me

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2016, 02:10 AM »
Nice work.  Did not realize the outside pieces were all hinged together, which makes it MUCH easier to breakdown and assemble.

Yeah if i wasnt walking back and forth its about 15 seconds. Im developing a system which will hold t togwther all as one unit now. Carry it as one then put it together qhen you get to your setup point

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2016, 02:11 AM »
I'll buy plans and CNC file

In all honesty the plans maybe for sale at some point but the.dxf will never be up for grabd im sorry

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2016, 02:14 AM »
What are the spoked wheels on? An MG?


Close and well spotted. Theyre off a triumph tr4. Cant remember the exactly year but mid 60mid anyway. I wish it was mine, i have driven it a couple of times and it drives like something from the 60s...

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2016, 02:16 AM »
Another thought: add rubber padding on the feet. Might help prevent movement while planing + moisture barrier.

Like it! Would stop any splittingdown the ply too. Not that ive had a problem yet but best to be safe

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2016, 02:18 AM »
Thanks for the videos, that is a great design and looks very stable.

Thanks, i appreciate the compliment. As for the videos theyre only quick demos. I have had comments on another forum about it not feeling like a premium product. What are your thoughTs?

Offline Tinker

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2016, 03:35 AM »
Thanks for the videos, that is a great design and looks very stable.

Thanks, i appreciate the compliment. As for the videos theyre only quick demos. I have had comments on another forum about it not feeling like a premium product. What are your thoughTs?

Yeah, and right away, they picked up the lumbr to copy it.  But coscience was clear as it "was not a premium product."
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Woodwork Wizard

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2016, 03:41 AM »
I have had comments on another forum about it not feeling like a premium product. What are your thoughTs?
[/quote]

I think the videos say it all, compact for transport, quick to set up and very stable in use. Brilliant!

Offline Laminator

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2016, 09:50 AM »
My two folding sawhorses and 30" x 80" sheet of plywood are definitely considered to be "premium products" lol.   Super nice design and simply elegant solution to the portable vs sturdy dilemma.  One can wish that he could walk in somewhere and buy one!

Offline Wooden Skye

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2016, 10:05 AM »
Thanks for the videos, that is a great design and looks very stable.

Thanks, i appreciate the compliment. As for the videos theyre only quick demos. I have had comments on another forum about it not feeling like a premium product. What are your thoughTs?

I wouldn't care what people think.  It's a mobile workbench that could be used in a shop setting if you have space concerns.  I think people don't consider it premium because it is made of plywood, but I would like to see them bring their Roubo or other hard wood traditional bench to a job site.  To me it is premium if it serves the function I need it to, and doesn't require me fiddling with minor things to make it work.  I hope that makes sense.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline jools

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2016, 10:21 AM »
Be assured an idea as good as this one will be copied in workshops all over. As to it not being a premium product I'd say stuff em. There is some very expensive premium ply furniture out there! I'm sure you could use a very expensive phenolic laminate for a production run at a premium price and perhaps that would satisfy those who moan. For us site guys speed of set up, weight' folded size and functionality count most
Regards Jools
It started with one little sander

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2016, 11:35 AM »
Looks great! No river dance ? (Just kidding)

How does it handle on an uneven floor or outside surface ?

Haha i like that comment! As for uneven surfaces you have two options. I like to keep things simple so i just rotate the bench until its solid and if not i use hardwood wedges to even it up. I may make attatchments with leveling feet but in all honesty i like simplicity when im on a job and pratting around with turny feet is too much for me

That is the simplest way to stabilize the bench but it doesn't ensure that the surface is flat.
Build something on a warped surface and you'll wish you'd taken the time to un-twist it first.

To make the surface flat you only need one adjustable corner.

To go further and make it level (which I highly recommend) you do need the ability to adjust all four corners, but that can be done with shims too.


What were you thinking on the size of the holes? Any particular reason for the diameter?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 04:19 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Svar

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2016, 12:50 PM »
In all honesty the plans maybe for sale at some point but the.dxf will never be up for grabd im sorry

Not to influence your business decisions, but you could offer paper/pdf plans for overseas customers due to shipping cost. If this sold 300 copies
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Festool-Track-Saw-Portable-Workbench-Cut-Table-Plans-/231447860636?hash=item35e35e159c:g:OoUAAMXQyY1TSLCv
so will yours.

From my experience if a knockdown item takes more than couple moves to setup it never gets taken down and just takes up space. I have a router table like that, which I just push around when not needed. Personally, I consider even MFT to be too fiddly to setup.

Bottom line, your bench strikes great balance between mobility, sturdiness, functionality and simplicity and good to go as is.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 529
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2016, 03:04 PM »
... I have had comments on another forum about it not feeling like a premium product. What are your thoughTs?

The bottom line is that premium is as premium does.  If you can do it with style, then you're Apple, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Adding a few integrated customizations would make it harder to copy commercially.  Patent something if you can.

Evolve it every couple of years, and add accessories that provide unique value over time.  Look at what Festool has done with the idea of a tool system.

Stay ahead of people who can do it more cheaply than you are willing to do.

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2016, 04:50 PM »
In all honesty the plans maybe for sale at some point but the.dxf will never be up for grabd im sorry

Not to influence your business decisions, but you could offer paper/pdf plans for overseas customers due to shipping cost. If this sold 300 copies
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Festool-Track-Saw-Portable-Workbench-Cut-Table-Plans-/231447860636?hash=item35e35e159c:g:OoUAAMXQyY1TSLCv
so will yours.

From my experience if a knockdown item takes more than couple moves to setup it never gets taken down and just takes up space. I have a router table like that, which I just push around when not needed. Personally, I consider even MFT to be too fiddly to setup.

Bottom line, your bench strikes great balance between mobility, sturdiness, functionality and simplicity and good to go as is.

Thanks, Yes again its something i'm not letting go off quite yet. I have that niggly feeling in the back of my head that if i give someone dimensions and PDF plans then i'm making it that bit easier for them to copy and sell on... I'm just not quite sure about it. With regards to overseas i'm hoping the US will be marketable for me. I have connections there so do plan on exploring that in the future. but one step at a time as they say.

I agree with you on the MFT also, I like it don't get me wrong it just doesn't suit my needs and my workflow/output.

Offline Coach.carpenter

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2016, 04:54 PM »
Looks great! No river dance ? (Just kidding)

How does it handle on an uneven floor or outside surface ?

Haha i like that comment! As for uneven surfaces you have two options. I like to keep things simple so i just rotate the bench until its solid and if not i use hardwood wedges to even it up. I may make attatchments with leveling feet but in all honesty i like simplicity when im on a job and pratting around with turny feet is too much for me

That is the simplest way to stabilize the bench but it doesn't ensure that the surface is flat.
Build something on a warped surface and you'll wish you'd taken the time to un-twist it first.

To make the surface flat you only need one adjustable corner.

To go further and make it level (which I highly recommend) you do need the ability to adjust all four corners, but that can be done with shims too.


What were you thinking on the size of the holes? Any particular reason for the diameter?

the 30mm side holes are that size due to the ease of being able to drop accessories into them which have a 20mm diameter... I could have done 20mm holes but in order for them to stay in they'd have to be bolted/ clamped or screwed from the back, again to fiddly. I want to set up, pick the accessories, insert and drop it to lock it in place and then move on to the task in hand.

As for the adjustable feet it would not be hard to have an accessory which does this nor would it be difficult to insert a wheel and axle via a small thread in order to wheel it around when fully laden.

Offline fritter63

  • Posts: 1328
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2016, 11:25 AM »
Love it! Would like to buy plans or even CNC files for it. Will those be available soon? I could def use SEVERAL of those around the shop.

Thanks.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2866
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2016, 12:00 PM »


What were you thinking on the size of the holes? Any particular reason for the diameter?

the 30mm side holes are that size due to the ease of being able to drop accessories into them which have a 20mm diameter... I could have done 20mm holes but in order for them to stay in they'd have to be bolted/ clamped or screwed from the back, again to fiddly. I want to set up, pick the accessories, insert and drop it to lock it in place and then move on to the task in hand.

As for the adjustable feet it would not be hard to have an accessory which does this nor would it be difficult to insert a wheel and axle via a small thread in order to wheel it around when fully laden.


Sorry but I'm really picky today  [embarassed]


This sounds contradictory. How is a 20mm accessory going to be snug in a 30 mm hole?

Do you also have a special design for accessories?

Offline The.Handyman

  • Posts: 57
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2016, 04:58 PM »
I would be in for purchasing a file I could take to my CNC guy and make up. I could really use one of these tables.

Travis

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1032
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2016, 05:12 PM »
This sounds contradictory. How is a 20mm accessory going to be snug in a 30 mm hole?
Do you also have a special design for accessories?

It is probably a bolt shaped fixture: 30 mm head with 20 mm stem for attaching to vertical surface.

Offline Lars_

  • Posts: 1
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2016, 06:48 AM »
I would definitely pay for the plans to make one for myself on the CNC.

Offline MrGinCT

  • Posts: 102
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2016, 08:02 AM »
Me too.

Offline chewy

  • Posts: 75
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2016, 10:07 AM »
£280 each.

Offline RickyL

  • Posts: 68
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2016, 06:06 PM »
I have 2 businesses and speak from experience.

You're on a wood working forum, 90% of people on here could copy your design just from the picture. I'm not saying they would do it as good or get it right first off, but it isn't difficult to copy.
I wouldn't worry about selling the DXF or plans. If somebody wants to copy you they would just buy the whole thing then reverse engineer it. (the chinese have done this to me many times) You have to just keep moving, keep making improvements etc.

At £280 I think it won't be "premium" enough for some. And will be too expensive for others, the issue is, you're selling carpentry to carpenters. If it was an accessory for a different trade you would stand a better chance.

I wouldn't buy it at £280, but I would pay £20 for plan's/dxf's.

Market it and see how you get on, but I think you'll sell 20-30 a year at best. Where you might sell 200 sets of plans for a couple of years. Making similar money for next to zero work. This will allow you to inovate and come up with new products, rather than making the same over and over till somebody comes along copies it and undercuts you. If you're lucky you'll get a couple of years before others are selling your idea. But if you keep moving the goal posts it will be a lot harder.

I mean the above with the best intentions, and only say it because I think its a genuinely good product and want you to suceed.

In all honesty the plans maybe for sale at some point but the.dxf will never be up for grabd im sorry

Not to influence your business decisions, but you could offer paper/pdf plans for overseas customers due to shipping cost. If this sold 300 copies
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Festool-Track-Saw-Portable-Workbench-Cut-Table-Plans-/231447860636?hash=item35e35e159c:g:OoUAAMXQyY1TSLCv
so will yours.

From my experience if a knockdown item takes more than couple moves to setup it never gets taken down and just takes up space. I have a router table like that, which I just push around when not needed. Personally, I consider even MFT to be too fiddly to setup.

Bottom line, your bench strikes great balance between mobility, sturdiness, functionality and simplicity and good to go as is.

Thanks, Yes again its something i'm not letting go off quite yet. I have that niggly feeling in the back of my head that if i give someone dimensions and PDF plans then i'm making it that bit easier for them to copy and sell on... I'm just not quite sure about it. With regards to overseas i'm hoping the US will be marketable for me. I have connections there so do plan on exploring that in the future. but one step at a time as they say.

I agree with you on the MFT also, I like it don't get me wrong it just doesn't suit my needs and my workflow/output.
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Online antss

  • Posts: 1182
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2016, 07:18 PM »
I agree - how many here have sent Timtool $10 +/- for an email set of plans for his MFTC ???

And then not built one  [blink]

And his design has the benefit of being a tool cart at the same time. Meaning only one trip to the van.
I'm not knocking yours, it has a place too.  I am questioning that you have some sort of patent-able idea here that is a gold mine. 

From a money perspective on this side of the pond 280 quid is pretty much the cost of an MFT/3 and that is a fancy pants table from a fancypants maker that looks fancypants.   Not sure what those go for in the UK though, so 280 might be a bargain.

Offline chewy

  • Posts: 75
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2016, 01:51 AM »
I think the comment about it not being a premium product was based on the £280 premium pricetag. That's alot of money here, especially when there are cheaper alternatives.
Full discussion can be read here http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=100077 
Its an awesome idea, but for that price I'd sooner make one and customise it to my own requirements.


Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6567
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2016, 03:13 AM »
Looks great! No river dance ? (Just kidding)

How does it handle on an uneven floor or outside surface ?

Haha i like that comment! As for uneven surfaces you have two options. I like to keep things simple so i just rotate the bench until its solid and if not i use hardwood wedges to even it up. I may make attatchments with leveling feet but in all honesty i like simplicity when im on a job and pratting around with turny feet is too much for me

That is the simplest way to stabilize the bench but it doesn't ensure that the surface is flat.
Build something on a warped surface and you'll wish you'd taken the time to un-twist it first.

To make the surface flat you only need one adjustable corner.

To go further and make it level (which I highly recommend) you do need the ability to adjust all four corners, but that can be done with shims too.


What were you thinking on the size of the holes? Any particular reason for the diameter?

the 30mm side holes are that size due to the ease of being able to drop accessories into them which have a 20mm diameter... I could have done 20mm holes but in order for them to stay in they'd have to be bolted/ clamped or screwed from the back, again to fiddly. I want to set up, pick the accessories, insert and drop it to lock it in place and then move on to the task in hand.

As for the adjustable feet it would not be hard to have an accessory which does this nor would it be difficult to insert a wheel and axle via a small thread in order to wheel it around when fully laden.

Would you not be better with 20mm slots?
Or 15.5 or 18.5mm?  I dont kno what thickness you make you bench with but do slot same.
Then you can have hooks cnc'd all as one.  Saving time on glueing 20mm dowels and notching them to create the hook which I assume is what your doing for the accesories?
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Offline fritter63

  • Posts: 1328
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2016, 06:59 PM »
I'm gonna ditto these last posts. Don't know what that translates to in US, but it till me all of an hour to replicate it in cad.....

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Offline overanalyze

  • Posts: 401
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2016, 09:25 PM »
I love it! Awesome design! Gets some plans drawn up...they will sell. The dxf file has real value too.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 10:36 PM by overanalyze »

Offline Asger

  • Posts: 1
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2017, 08:34 PM »
What an awesome design! Can I buy a bench from you? I live in Denmark, probably expensive to ship. If you haven't already, yu should put it in production.
 
Alternatively, can I buy the drawings from you?

Let me know if you can help me in any way.

Thanks
Asger

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1032
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2017, 10:33 PM »
What an awesome design! Can I buy a bench from you?
It used to be listed on ebay in UK and Canada.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/chestnut-mfft-folding-workbench-table-with-accessories-not-festool-mft/302059635723?hash=item465428440b
You need to PM the author.

Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 946
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2017, 09:18 AM »
I would love to have this as a second work unit IF it was identical height to the Festool MFT/3. Normally it would be used as a carport bench but could see use in the shop as an add on work surface that would provide additional benefits if matching MFT/3 height.

It seems that having it CNC cut would be fairly critical - something I don't have access to. Would think cutting with portable power tools would not be accurate enough to provide the stability shown.

Really like this bench and know a couple other guys who would benefit from it. Would require shipping to the US. Have had smaller items shipped from England and it wasn't high cost. Not sure how this would be. Packaging would be critical though.

Offline Rudy Raath

  • Posts: 1
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2017, 11:52 PM »
Great Sturdy design and congratulations. You have a winner here. I would be interested in buying the plans or a complete kit.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 529
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2017, 10:18 AM »
Suggestion - see if @TSO Products will distribute it in the US for you.

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2127
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2017, 05:49 PM »
Watch this video -



FastCap is manufacturing and distributing a bench designed by Ron Paulk.  Don't know if they would consider yours or not.

But Paul Akers - the founder and CEO of FastCap - is all about sourcing ideas from others and working with them to commercialize them.

Reach out to him!

He now has $100K invested in a CNC machine and might be looking for other ideas to keep it busy. 

Just a thought -

Offline TSO Products

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2017, 07:59 PM »
@Coach.carpenter - very nicely conceived and executed design  - shows that you understand what you need on your job-site to earn a living.
Wish you success!
Hans
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Offline Coach.carpenter

  • Posts: 28
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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2017, 04:16 AM »
Good day all. It has been a long time and for that I apologise. My experiences over the last 12months have been a real eye opener. Here I am again to pass on my thoughts.

Firstly running my carpentry business which is steadily growing and this a long side is actually difficult. Mainly because of cash flow, but also due to time to get to the cnc shop. Pick up the parts, bring them to the workshop, assemble the benches, package them etc. I severely underestimated the time.

This is really leading me to think about selling the plans. Which gives me 3 options:

1) sell the dxf's for other people to have their cnc guys manufacture.... This still worries me as it feels like I'm giving up full control.

2) sell pdfs which of course are Co verbal to dxf's should anyone really want to.

3) sell and post full scale paper plans... Not an option I thought off until it was mentioned the other day. But I could sell in kit form with say one package containing hinges and bench dogs etc.

What do you guys recon??

Funnily enough I've emailed Ron Paulk to ask him about his success with his bench but as yet had no reply. He's a very busy man I'm sure. But the fast cap thing is interesting. Do they buy the dxf for a price or do the work on a commission type basis??

Thoughts are always greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. BTW I still use my bench daily and absolutely love it..

Offline gunnyr

  • Posts: 66
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2017, 10:03 PM »
Your folding workbench is very interesting!  Well executed sir!

I am one of those who has purchased @Timtool bench plans and never made it...  I am also one of those many woodworkers on this site who is capable of building most anything based on a picture.  Your bench is interesting to be sure, I like that it folds flat and quickly unfolds to a stable, precise work surface.  I can nearly assure you that I would not buy your bench at any price, I can tell you that I might buy the plans though. 

I bought the plans for the @crpaulk Compact Workbench rather than spend $600 to buy it from FastCap.  In all honesty I put more like $900 in time and materials into making the bench but I ended up with MY version of the bench.  I could not be happier with the results.  I get a lot of compliments from the other Carpenters and Tradesmen on the job site.  The bench represents my work.  Had a bought the Compact Workbench from FastCap I would spend time explaining how it is worth $600...  Remember, most carpenters work off a warped sheet of plywood on the job site because they don't want to spend money or take the time to make something that meets their needs. 

My recommendation is to sell pdf plans and enjoy the beer money you earn from them.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 07:08 PM by gunnyr »
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Offline GravyBones

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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2017, 09:30 PM »
Looks great. Keep at it in turning to a product. One question...you mentioned planing, how is it when planing? Does it have enough weight to it to resist planing and yet be light enough to be easily portable.
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Offline Coach.carpenter

  • Posts: 28
  • I like to make!
Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2017, 02:34 AM »
Your folding workbench is very interesting!  Well executed sir!

I am one of those who has purchased @Timtool bench plans and never made it...  I am also one of those many woodworkers on this site who is capable of building most anything based on a picture.  Your bench is interesting to be sure, I like that it folds flat and quickly unfolds to a stable, precise work surface.  I can nearly assure you that I would not buy your bench at any price, I can tell you that I might buy the plans though. 

I bought the plans for the @crpaulk Compact Workbench rather than spend $600 to buy it from FastCap.  In all honesty I put more like $900 in time and materials into making the bench but I ended up with MY version of the bench.  I could not be happier with the results.  I get a lot of compliments from the other Carpenters and Tradesmen on the job site.  The bench represents my work.  Had a bought the Compact Workbench from FastCap I would spend time explaining how it is worth $600...  Remember, most carpenters work off a warped sheet of plywood on the job site because they don't want to spend money or take the time to make something that meets their needs. 

My recommendation is to sell pdf plans and enjoy the beer money you earn from them.

Thanks for the reply. It's a tough decision. The product is selling and I believe has potential but it needs a big cash investment to get it moving. Like you guys say it's going to get copied if people really want to. So maybe just sell both like the paulk bench?

Offline Coach.carpenter

  • Posts: 28
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Re: My new folding workbench - I'm after some feedback!
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2017, 02:39 AM »
Looks great. Keep at it in turning to a product. One question...you mentioned planing, how is it when planing? Does it have enough weight to it to resist planing and yet be light enough to be easily portable.

For pine absolutely. It doesn't move. When planing oak if you fill the shelf with toolboxes to stop the bench moving then yes it works lovely. There is next to no lateral movement when planing which is, IMO a winner for such a light bench.

Also I've have the opportunity to send it to a YouTube woodworker up in Scotland. He's very keen to do a full review and i feel there's good exposure to be had due to the 8k subscribers he has. Any thoughts?