Author Topic: Running torsion box through planer  (Read 5430 times)

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Offline Mismarked

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Running torsion box through planer
« on: February 13, 2017, 05:32 PM »
I am doing a floating shelf using a torsion box thing.  Bottom skin is flat.  Is it a terrible idea to run it through the planer before gluing on the top skin?  It is 1/4 inch ply if it makes any difference.

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Offline mleny77

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 05:38 PM »
It will probably explode. [scared] To much open space between the parts.

Offline kevinculle

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 06:19 PM »
If you have access to a drum sander and sneak up on it in small increments that would work better than a planer.

Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 10:19 PM »
If you have access to a drum sander and sneak up on it in small increments that would work better than a planer.

I second the drum sander.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 12:23 AM »
Yeah, I think the planer is a bad idea. You probably won't have much of a torsion box left. Knives are bound to grab those cross piece top edges. I envision lots of splintering.

Seth

Offline Mismarked

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 10:27 AM »
Figured that was right, but sure seemed tempting.  Don't have access to a drum sander.  Maybe I will try a straight edge and hand plane and see if I can at least knock down the high spots.

Offline Paul G

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 10:32 AM »
If you run it through the planer please video it  [popcorn]
+1

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2017, 10:45 AM »
Give it a go.

The short cross pieces are the only concern. They will likely get knocked over but as long as they end up below the long strips (don't interfere with the bond between long strips and skin) you're okay.

If you want to you can grind the tops of the short strips (right angle grinder) to be sure the cutter head rides above them, or wait and see if you need to do that after.

In the grand scheme of torsion boxes the short strips are only needed to keep the long strips upright. They don't need to be glued to the skin.

Offline Mismarked

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 11:50 AM »
"In the grand scheme of torsion boxes the short strips are only needed to keep the long strips upright."

That makes me wonder if I used way too many short pieces.  It is very light and very stiff even without the other side skinned, but if I build something larger, like a torsion box miter saw stand or workbench, using thicker materials, I would want to avoid unnecessary weight by having too many short strips.


Online waho6o9

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 12:32 PM »
Maybe use a router sled?

Could be more hassle than it's worth though.

Offline ELB

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 12:37 PM »
If you run it through the planer please video it  [popcorn]

+1

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 04:55 PM »
"In the grand scheme of torsion boxes the short strips are only needed to keep the long strips upright."

That makes me wonder if I used way too many short pieces.  It is very light and very stiff even without the other side skinned, but if I build something larger, like a torsion box miter saw stand or workbench, using thicker materials, I would want to avoid unnecessary weight by having too many short strips.

The shorts are only needed to keep the long strips upright, but that is a very important job, especially with relatively wiggly stuff like 1/4" ply. If the long strip gets crooked it's likely to produce high spots that would jeopardize adhesion of the skin.

Check out Sing Panels. They have it down. They use thin vertical grain strips for maximum compression resistance and minimum dead weight with foam blocks to support and regulate the distribution of the strips. I'd like to know how they manufacture the blocks. I guess a hot wire cutter to avoid the foam beads...

Scroll down to the bottom of that page to see a very interesting panel.

Offline Mismarked

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2017, 05:27 PM »
Funny, I also had pulled up info on the Sing Panels when I did a Google search, and it took me to something called www.lightweightuniversity.com.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 07:18 PM »
Funny, I also had pulled up info on the Sing Panels when I did a Google search, and it took me to something called www.lightweightuniversity.com.

I do think Sing has their version of the tech down but the vocabulary is pretty loose. In some posts they call the panels "honeycomb". Not.

To compensate for their somewhat remote location they've done a pretty good job of populating the internet with links to their product.

Offline bdiemer

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2017, 08:34 PM »
I would do it with 4 things: a very sharp block plane, a light touch, a straight edge and patients.

Online Cheese

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2017, 10:58 PM »
FWIW...if this were my project, I'd run it through the planer. The most important part is to just lean on it by a max .005"-.010" per cut, just a whisper of a cut. Less is more in this application. Especially the first cut because that's where you're leveling the surface. Just take it easy, a hair thickness at a time and you'll be ok. The longitudinal strips are fine it's the perpendicular members that may become a problem. Then again, the perpendicular members are not the major structural elements for this shelf, it's the horizontal members that support the skin.

Offline Chris Wong

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 03:09 AM »
I think it would be okay to use the thickness planer provided you take very light passes. If you are concerned with tear out, you could run a chamfer bit on all the trailing edges.
Chris Wong, http://FlairWoodworks.com

The thoughts and ideas expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of http://UltimateTools.ca.  But Dan does say "hello".

Offline Jasonj888

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 05:37 PM »
Before I had a big drum sander I would take my stuff to my hardwood supplier that is also a staircase building. He would charge $5 per minute of sanding, that panel would take about 2 minutes. In reality, he never once charged me. Check out whoever builds cabinets in your area and ask what they would charge you - it would probably be free. Slip the guy running the machine $10 and you have a sanding source for life.

Offline Vondawg

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 06:27 PM »
I agree specially since it's so narrow....even someone with a super-max or something
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 06:30 PM by Vondawg »
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Mismarked

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 10:26 AM »
It appears the consensus is that a drum sander would be the right tool and that a hand plane would also work, but there is no clear consensus about what would happen on the planer, and no one reported having tried it. 
    At the same time, there was no suggestion that light passes would be dangerous or would damage the planer like trying to run an end grain cutting board through it.
    In light of the altruistic nature of the FOG forum (and lack of ready access to a drum sander), I feel compelled to try it and report the results.  If it explodes, at least we will have a little more information for future use and I won't be set back that much.
    Will try this tomorrow and report back, hopefully with a video from both sides.

Offline mleny77

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 11:30 AM »
 [eek]

Offline greg mann

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 11:53 AM »
It appears the consensus is that a drum sander would be the right tool and that a hand plane would also work, but there is no clear consensus about what would happen on the planer, and no one reported having tried it. 
    At the same time, there was no suggestion that light passes would be dangerous or would damage the planer like trying to run an end grain cutting board through it.
    In light of the altruistic nature of the FOG forum (and lack of ready access to a drum sander), I feel compelled to try it and report the results.  If it explodes, at least we will have a little more information for future use and I won't be set back that much.
    Will try this tomorrow and report back, hopefully with a video from both sides.


I hope this works out for you but for your safety I would limit the video to what you can take from the input side and minimize your physical presence on the output side.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Holmz

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 06:40 PM »
The immortal words of XX everywhere is, "hold my beer, and watch this".
But it may actually work, and one only knows by trying.
Filling it with expanding foam would help.

Offline Mismarked

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 06:45 PM »
Trailing edge blew off on first pass.

Offline Mismarked

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 06:47 PM »
Leading edge damaged on next pass. Will post video next. Interesting results.

Offline Mismarked

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 07:00 PM »
i think the video is too big to post. Will work on it.  Any suggestions to reduce size?

Offline Mismarked

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2017, 07:38 PM »


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2017, 07:49 PM »
So basically the most damage occurred when a planer roller was only engaged on one side.  Which kind if makes sense.

Seth

Online Cheese

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2017, 10:17 PM »
I'd consider that a successful result. The only thing I would have done differently would have been to decrease the feed depth, you can hear it in the sound of the planer...back it off by about half and she'd be good to go. This would be really interesting if you installed a Shelix cutter, you'd have even less tear out as it's taking an even smaller instantaneous amount of bite out of the structure.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Running torsion box through planer
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2017, 10:34 PM »
I think that could also be improved by adding a temporary sacrificial piece to the ends. Couple 2x blocks or the like.

Seth