Guy Ashley
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Location: Northampton, UK Member Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Furniture & Cabinet Maker/Joiner
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« on: June 23, 2010, 12:53 PM » |
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I am looking for some advice on members experience with framing nailers.
I am thinking of purchasing a cordless gas powered nailer for framing and cladding and on the one hand the Paslode IM350 seems to be the weapon of choice but a few guys have said it spends a lot of time being repaired.
Paslode have bought a new model the 90 but I dont know anyone who has one or has used one.
Also the Makita GN900 seems a similar contender but I am a bit sceptical of reviews on websites so I am after advice from users.
Thanks in advance.
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Festoolfootstool
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Location: uk Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 1528
The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 01:20 PM » |
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I am looking for some advice on members experience with framing nailers.
I am thinking of purchasing a cordless gas powered nailer for framing and cladding and on the one hand the Paslode IM350 seems to be the weapon of choice but a few guys have said it spends a lot of time being repaired.
Paslode have bought a new model the 90 but I dont know anyone who has one or has used one.
Also the Makita GN900 seems a similar contender but I am a bit sceptical of reviews on websites so I am after advice from users.
Thanks in advance.
Hi I have the paslode im350 with the orange tip I had the model before that as wel,l works well stay away from old gas and service it yourself. you do need to service them but its no big deal.I would not be without one.I just stand and look puzzled when I see anyone with a hammer  |
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If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3864
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 01:42 PM » |
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I framed for 20 years and had every Paslode model starting with the very first one.
They are great, but I would never frame a house without a compressor and gun. The Paslode is a fantastic supplement. Nothing and I mean nothing can drive a 16d nail like a good framing hammer. If you are framing a few interior walls the Paslode is just fine. There is nothing like a Paslode to jump on a roof and quickly nail down a piece or two of ply. The Paslode is great for soffit work as well.
If you can only get one you need a compressor and pneumatic gun(if you don't have one) and a good hammer, I would get both Paslode and pneumatic if you can.
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The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.
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Deansocial
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Location: derbyshire, uk Member Since: Mar 2010
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 01:43 PM » |
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i have an im350 and never service it and it fires almost everytime even the other week with 2007 gas in it. I prefer to use my bostich air powered nailer as the nails are bigger gauge and cheaper. I use a hammer alot aswell to put proper nails in as i think paslode nails are little more than big pins
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Guy Ashley
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Location: Northampton, UK Member Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Furniture & Cabinet Maker/Joiner
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 01:52 PM » |
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I framed for 20 years and had every Paslode model starting with the very first one.
They are great, but I would never frame a house without a compressor and gun. The Paslode is a fantastic supplement. Nothing and I mean nothing can drive a 16d nail like a good framing hammer. If you are framing a few interior walls the Paslode is just fine. There is nothing like a Paslode to jump on a roof and quickly nail down a piece or two of ply. The Paslode is great for soffit work as well.
If you can only get one you need a compressor and pneumatic gun(if you don't have one) and a good hammer, I would get both Paslode and pneumatic if you can.
I have a small compressor which I keep in the workshop and 16 & 18 gauge Prebena guns for "pinning" work. This purchase is for construction of an oak framed building that is half garage and half home office/store room/washroom. The roof void is going to be attic trusses and boarded out and the exterior is going to be oak board cladded. I had considered the option of an air nailer but getting tangled in air hose while trying to set the trusses etc seemed a bind. |
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WarnerConstCo.
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Location: Auburn, In usa Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 3108
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 02:30 PM » |
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You would be better off with a air nailer in that situation, you just have to deal with the hose.
There is no bump fire on a paslode so, it is kind of slow in that respect.
We have to hand drive 20d's around here for truss connections to top plates.
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Holzhacker
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Location: Chicago, IL Member Since: Mar 2009
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 03:05 PM » |
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I have the old black and new orange paslodes. I also have a large and small compressor and multiple air guns. I have to agree with other posts that each has its' purpose. Small framing, door, window, etc jobs I use the paslodes. Any amount of substantial framing I use the air guns.
I did try to frame out an apartment once with the paslode, it worked but was a hassle. For what you are describing, I would definitely buy an air gun. Especially if you are going to be nailing old lumber. The paslode can have penetration shortcomings with old lumber.
I have paslode and bostitch air framing nailers. Out of the two I like the paslode better.
If you do buy the cordless paslode you have to service/clean it yourself. It's very easy once you've done it a couple times.
Good luck.
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"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"
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Deansocial
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Location: derbyshire, uk Member Since: Mar 2010
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 03:18 PM » |
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there is a place on ebay selling the bostich nailer and compressor for ?300 recon but they look brand new
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Festoolfootstool
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Location: uk Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 1528
The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2010, 03:21 PM » |
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framing in the UK is nothing like the stuff you guys do in the states in my earlier post I said I have a pasi I also have a bostich framing nailer we call them first fix nailers I have found the bostitch is a pain on site to much stuff to lug on and off site.and the nails become a issue for the foremen to get for you.then someone puts a hole in your airline  much easier to go with the pasi. never not been man enough yet. on my own jobs I do sometimes use the bostitch as the nails are cheaper but I do gravitate to the pasi. |
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If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......
Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3864
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2010, 03:22 PM » |
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If you are dealing with Oak framing and replacing and adding more Oak(which I have not done since I was 16) forget the Paslode, half the nails will not drive all the way and the other half will probably just bend.
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« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 03:22 PM by nickao »
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The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.
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Festoolfootstool
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Location: uk Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 1528
The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2010, 03:27 PM » |
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framing in the UK is nothing like the stuff you guys do in the states in my earlier post I said I have a pasi I also have a bostich framing nailer we call them first fix nailers I have found the bostitch is a pain on site to much stuff to lug on and off site.and the nails become a issue for the foremen to get for you.then someone puts a hole in your airline much easier to go with the pasi. never not been man enough yet. on my own jobs I do sometimes use the bostitch as the nails are cheaper but I do gravitate to the pasi. aah just re read and saw you later post re the oak. hmm pasi might not be up to that is it green oak? |
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If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......
Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?
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Guy Ashley
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Location: Northampton, UK Member Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Furniture & Cabinet Maker/Joiner
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2010, 04:48 PM » |
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The garage is a timber structure (probably CLS when the client gets the quote) which will then be boarded and clad with 1" oak shiplap board.
The main frame to the front will be 6" x 6" oak beams which be mortised and pegged as per green oak structures. The garage doors are going to be the usual framed, ledged and braced construction and will be made in the workshop.
The framing nailer will be for fixing stud work, trusses, joist hangers, ply lining and cladding with the 1" oak. The trusses will come ready made.
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DIPLOMACY:
"The art of being able to tell someone to go to Hades in such a way that they positively look forward to the journey"
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Festoolfootstool
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Location: uk Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 1528
The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2010, 05:01 PM » |
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the pasi is no good for joist hangers you will need a strapshot or similar the bostitch strapshot is a realy good bit of kit but the nails a expensive.
but will be fine for every thing else
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« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 05:03 PM by Festoolfootstool »
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If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......
Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?
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waho6o9
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Location: San Fernando Valley, Los Angeles California Member Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 471
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2010, 09:30 PM » |
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For use with an air hose I use Hitachi for framing and Senco for finish work. Otherwise, its the paslode for framing and finish work as well. No problems with any of them, thank God. |
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InletJoe
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2010, 12:50 AM » |
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Having spent 32 years in the Equipment Rental business, the best framing nailer is The Max. It shoots full head framing nails that meet all codes and it is the only one that lasts under rental use. The cordless units cant cut it in rental and wont stand up in homeowners moderate use. I have a Passload trim gun that is several yrs old and just recently purchased a battery charger and battery and now after 6 mos , it doesn't work. It wont charge the battery. Never again.
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woodguy7
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Location: wick, scotland Member Since: Apr 2009
Posts: 2400
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2010, 06:31 AM » |
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My experience with the paslodes is not good, spend more time trying to get the dam things to work. Dont realy do that kinda work now but when i did it was always air lines & bostich guns. But, like Dean said, sometimes it is better to get the hammer out & whack some propper nails in. Once you get used to it, the air hose is not much of a problem at all but it would depend on how many people are there, less the better. I wont be storing my hammer away just yet (recently got a "Douglas" wooden handled hammer from workshop heaven, nice ) Woodguy. |
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If its made of wood, i can make it smaller.
Shirt size medium
p.s- ive started reading these too
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Sparktrician
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Location: Northern Virginia (That's in the USA, Pilgrim!) Member Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 1209
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2010, 09:28 AM » |
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One thing that may or may not be an issue with an air-powered nailer in your part of the world is the choice of nails. Some places here in the Colonies, like Fairfax County in Northern Virginia, code prohibits the use of clipped-head nails. Across the river, in the Merry Land of Maryland, clipped-heads were acceptable when I lived there. Some inspectors get their undies in a bunch and mandate tear-outs if they see clipped-head nails being used. The gas-powered guns are great for working in tight or awkward spaces, but like so many others have noted, despite the inconvenience of hoses and generators, nothing beats a good air-powered nailer. I have both Bostitch and Porter-Cable in my arsenal. All of them require regular lubrication. Failure to do so will cause seals to disintegrate over time.  |
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- Willy -
MFT/3 x2, TS55, Guide Rails x3, Parallel Guide Set, CT22 w/Boom Arm, CT Mini, RO90, RO125, ETS125, RTS400, RAS115.04, C12 + Centrotec Imperial Bits, CSX Set, DF500 Domino Set, SCG-10, Domino Plate from RonWen, MFK700 Set, CMS-GE, OF1010, OF1400, OF2200 Set, LR32 System, MFS System, Syslite, Systainers, Sortainers, clamps.
Coming attractions: Carvex, Kapex, Ti-15, more "Stuff"-tainers...
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Ken Nagrod
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Location: New Jersey Member Since: Jul 2010
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2010, 09:44 AM » |
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Inspectors have an issue with clipped headed gun nails because they can be over driven causing a decrease in holding strength. If they aren't over driven into the wood, they have the same holding strength as full round headed nails. Don't let the inspectors walk all over you. Make nice nice to a point, but don't let them take advantage of you just for ease of passing their inspection. I know Senco provides engineering specs for their nails should you butt heads with your inspector.
Just want to add this note. If full round headed nails aren't fully driven into contact with the wood, you'll have the same holding strength issue (under driven).
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 12:02 AM by Ken Nagrod »
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speed
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Location: uk Member Since: May 2009
Posts: 285
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2010, 01:32 PM » |
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what size compressor does it need to run a air framer ?
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has made the change. now 100% T-loc  |
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Ken Nagrod
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Location: New Jersey Member Since: Jul 2010
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2010, 02:18 PM » |
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Speed,
You can fire a framing nailer with the smallest of compressors. It's not a continuous draw of air like air sanders or air impact guns. You would need to find the specs on the nailer for air consumption in cfm or scfm, usually giving a figure for how much air is required to shoot 1 nail per second for 60 seconds. Divide that by 60 to get the cfm required to shoot 1 nail every second. If you need to shoot in rapid succession (more than 1 nail every second for 60 seconds), look for a compressor that has twice the cfm figure you came up with for the 1 minute amount, which will give you 1 nail every 1/2 second for 60 seconds. If you're only doing short bursts of multiple nail shots, the lower figure you first obtained should be fine. SCFM is the truer figure for air usage of a tool.
Sorry Speed. Forgot you were in the U.K. so I guess it's lpm for liters per minute (as opposed to cubic feet per minute) in your specs?
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 12:04 AM by Ken Nagrod »
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woodguy7
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Location: wick, scotland Member Since: Apr 2009
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« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2010, 03:56 PM » |
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Speed
I always found a 100ltr to be enough.
Woodguy
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If its made of wood, i can make it smaller.
Shirt size medium
p.s- ive started reading these too
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wooden
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 317
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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2010, 03:39 AM » |
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Speed,
You can fire a framing nailer with the smallest of compressors.
Yup, you can use a little compressor but the problem is the tank size. Framers require a good volume of air with each firing to fully drive the nails. Small compressors generally have smaller tanks and are often used with smaller hoses. This means the pressure drops rapidly once the gun is fired, leading to under driven nails. Use a 3/8 id hose and you want 4+ gallon tank compressor. Once you raise the wall and start driving nails into the mud sill, you will appreciate having a larger compressor. |
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Sparktrician
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Location: Northern Virginia (That's in the USA, Pilgrim!) Member Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 1209
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2010, 09:17 AM » |
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Inspectors have an issue with clipped headed gun nails because they can be over driven causing a decrease in holding strength. If they aren't over driven into the wood, they have the same holding strength as full round headed nails. Don't let the inspectors walk all over you. Make nice nice to a point, but don't let them take advantage of you just for ease of passing their inspection. I know Senco provides engineering specs for their nails should you butt heads with your inspector.
Just want to add this note. If full round headed nails aren't fully driven into contact with the wood, you'll have the same holding strength issue (under driven).
Hate to say it, but reason and proven data have little to do with swaying inspectors in this region. Some won't even listen to a sound argument, and instead refer to the code and assiduously stick to it in the face of good sense and reasoned thinking. All things considered, it's just smarter business to use round-head nails and not have the hassles. Around here, most of the inspectors will "work with" a contractor and not against them, but if there's a bunch of arguing, the inspectors have been known to lose their flexibility which causes further problems that can last well past the current project.  |
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- Willy -
MFT/3 x2, TS55, Guide Rails x3, Parallel Guide Set, CT22 w/Boom Arm, CT Mini, RO90, RO125, ETS125, RTS400, RAS115.04, C12 + Centrotec Imperial Bits, CSX Set, DF500 Domino Set, SCG-10, Domino Plate from RonWen, MFK700 Set, CMS-GE, OF1010, OF1400, OF2200 Set, LR32 System, MFS System, Syslite, Systainers, Sortainers, clamps.
Coming attractions: Carvex, Kapex, Ti-15, more "Stuff"-tainers...
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NPayne
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Location: Singapore Member Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 2
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« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2012, 07:05 AM » |
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Check out this site for info on nailers and nailer reviews: www.topnailerreviews.com |
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RDMuller
Festool Dealer
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Location: Carmel, IN Member Since: Dec 2007
Posts: 169
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« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2012, 09:53 AM » |
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It sounds like you are using this for a single project for the time being. Make sure you check into availability of nails in the quantities you need. If you are required to purchase case quantities, they may be sitting around for a long long time before you get them all used. I was lucky in that a contractor friend gave me some and got me through the project
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Peter Parfitt
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Location: England Member Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 964
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« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2012, 04:03 AM » |
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Hi Guy Have you done this job yet or are you still debating the way forward? I agree with the comments about using an air nailer - that's what I used to build the barn in my FOG picture. I bought an Axminster one... http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-fn2890d-framing-nailer-prod564176/I have seen the Paslodes in use and they appear to be brilliant but one fencing chap I spoke to said he would not use one for 1st fix on a building. Peter |
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Kapex 120, OF 2200, OF1400, TS55, TS55R, CMS-TS55R, PSC420, Domino 500, MFT3, Rotex 90, Rotex 150, CTL26, 1400 & 2700 Guide Rails and a lovely watch
Wish List: C15, HL850, BS75, DF700, Second Extractor, new secretary
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Guy Ashley
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Location: Northampton, UK Member Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Furniture & Cabinet Maker/Joiner
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« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2012, 05:40 AM » |
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Hi Peter
In the end this job was a non runner, the client worked for Morgan Stanley Bank in the City and became a victim of a down sizing cull!!
In the end the advice re compressor guns seemed the most logical and I would have gone down that route,
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DIPLOMACY:
"The art of being able to tell someone to go to Hades in such a way that they positively look forward to the journey"
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