Author Topic: Bench top planner suggestions  (Read 9685 times)

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Offline TacoTraveler

  • Posts: 7
Bench top planner suggestions
« on: November 08, 2017, 12:59 PM »
I am sure this has been covered before but I would like some newer input.  I have a Delta 22-560 bench top planer that I have had for 15 years.  I still have the original blades in it just too busy (or lazy) to replace them.  It has done a good job for a hobbyist.  It does have an issue with snipe and tear out surfacing cherry.  I have been thinking on going with a helical head bench top model. (My basement shop has limited space.)  I will be retiring in a few months and would like to do more wood working with recycled materials.  I just bought a Rikon 14” band saw to re-saw if needed.  My question is are the helical head machines as good as the sales people say and what models would you recommend?  This has been brought on by a friend of mine who is interested in the Delta.  Any suggestions on what to ask for it used?

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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 640
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 01:55 PM »
I have a DeWalt 735 planer with the Byrd SHELIX (helical) head on it and I love it.

Pros:
-- Sound signature is reduced from a howl to a low growl. With heavy duty earmuffs on it can be hard for me to tell if the machine is on or not
-- Very nice finished surface
-- The 735 has a built-in blower, which makes your dust collector's job a lot easier
-- The Byrd head comes with nice instructions, and there are numerous "how-to" videos on youtube
-- Wixey makes a nice digital depth gauge that works well on the Dewalt

Cons:
-- I think you lose a very tiny amount of cutting depth, I generally try to keep my removal rates to </= 1/16", so plan on taking very light passes
-- I have pronounced snipe the first 3" or so of my boards. Generally not a problem, I just cut my lumber long and only trim to length after it has been dimensioned.
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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 640
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 02:10 PM »
I don't get any snipe on either of my planers. I even run pieces cut to length through the Makita, lightly sand and immediately use for projects. Planer setup and technique do reduce or eliminate snipe in my experience.

Snipe was not an issue on my 735 until I swapped the heads. There might be a little fine tuning I can perform, but I won't lose any sleep over ~2" of snipe on a 10' board  [big grin]
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Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 569
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 02:49 PM »
2" or so of snipe is to be expected and more so if you are aggressively removing material.

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 776
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 05:04 PM »
@TacoTraveler let me add some additional thoughts. First let me say that I have a Dewalt 735 with a shelix head and I like it. I picked it up used the other day from someone who was upgrading to a 20 inch planer. I felt that I got a fair deal on it. It does do a decent job on everything I've thrown at it. I did still have a bit of tear out in figured cherry but not as much as I used to.

Buying new however and you are up to about $1000 for the machine and the head. and you still have a 13 inch planer. For that money you should be able to find a used 15 inch or add some cash to it and you can look at new.

As you know the 735 is not in the same style as your old planer. It is considerably bigger, a bit unwieldy to carry and weighs in over 90 pounds. You'll want to put it on a stand with rollers perhaps to move it around. My friend stores his old style lunchbox planer under his bench and we pull it out when needed. I don't think you will be wanting to do that with the 735. So I don't think you'll save a significant amount of space over a floor model planer.

So you might want to take a look at a floor model either new or used.  If you do go the 735 route, get the bundle that has the extension tables added in.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1310
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 05:12 PM »
Take a look at Cutech
http://www.cutechtool.com/product-p/40200hc-ct.htm
Spiral cutterhead with carbide inserts and snipe lock.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1310
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 05:18 PM »
I don't get any snipe on either of my planers. I even run pieces cut to length through the Makita, lightly sand and immediately use for projects. Planer setup and technique do reduce or eliminate snipe in my experience.
Snipe has less to do with technique and more with rigidity and play in the lift mechanism.

Offline krudawg

  • Posts: 17
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 10:10 PM »
Take a look at Cutech
http://www.cutechtool.com/product-p/40200hc-ct.htm
Spiral cutterhead with carbide inserts and snipe lock.
I bought the Cutech when I was in the market for a bench top planer.  I bought it because it had a spiral (sort of ) cutter.  I am quite happy with it for the small amount of woodwork I crank out in my shop  (garage). 
Ted
Mft/3, DF 500, Hammer K3 Winner,
Former Marine E-4

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3554
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 08:04 AM »
This summer I switched over from the Dewalt 734 to the 735 and added a Shelix head.  Couldn't be happier with the switch, for all the reasons specified already.  I'm not at all mechanically inclined, but I was able to do the installation pretty smoothly over the course of a long morning. 

I would second the observation about the additional weight/bulk of the 735 over the previous model.  I was lucky that I got mine used bundled with the stand and extension tables, as I don't think it would have been feasible for me to continue storing it under my lathe table and lugging it out every time it was needed, as I did with the 734.  It's weight and size place it at the upper limits of portability.  The one gripe I have is that the outfeed extension table doesn't fold up unless you raise the planerhead basically to max depth, and use the cord wrap to secure the table in an upright position.  Without doing that the planer ends up taking up a lot of space.

I continue to get occasional snipe, though small enough where it's not really a problem even if I don't cut the board with extra length.  What's odd is that some boards will still come out of the machine with no snipe at all.  I think it might have to do with how well the face running along the table surface is jointed -- I have to do all my jointing by hand, and so do not always achieve machine-grade flatness.  In addition, I've noticed that some woods, particularly softwoods, snipe less than others.  I assume it has to do with how much "give" there is in the board to allow it to be flattened by the rollers.   

Note that they also now make a Shelix for the Dewalt 734, if you're looking for more portability.  I've found that having that tiny amount of extra width capacity on the 735 is useful, though.  And the 735 is just in general a better planer over the previous model.
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Offline UncleJoe

  • Posts: 137
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 09:52 AM »
I have owned the CUTECH since this summer. I have run a lot of walnut through it. I have nothing but good things to say. I just does a fabulous job. I took my time adjusting the in-feed and out-feed on it and I have zero snipe. My model is the professional model at around $650 and has carbide spiral head. I had a customer support issue when I first got it and the support was great and fast and fixed the situation perfectly. I add this because I think any company can have a product problem, what is important top me as a consumer is to know how the company reacts to a problem. Their response was great.

I was going to get a Dewalt and add a byrd spiral head but then I would be up over $1000 so I went with this and I am very pleased.

I am not young enough to know everything!

Offline krudawg

  • Posts: 17
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2017, 09:10 PM »
Take a look at Cutech
http://www.cutechtool.com/product-p/40200hc-ct.htm
Spiral cutterhead with carbide inserts and snipe lock.

I bought a Cutech and am pleased with it's operation.  If I feed the boards in with a little tilt up at the rear of the board, snipe is minimized.  Looked very hard at the Dewalt but because it used straight knives I bought the Cutech which has, as they call it, a spiral cutter but it's not really a true spiral cutter
Ted
Mft/3, DF 500, Hammer K3 Winner,
Former Marine E-4

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 786
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2017, 06:04 AM »
"I continue to get occasional snipe, though small enough where it's not really a problem even if I don't cut the board with extra length.  What's odd is that some boards will still come out of the machine with no snipe at all."

What I have done with my DW735 is run the board through at an angle and that seems to eliminate all snipe.
Experiment with yours and see if it works for you. If you place the workpiece at too great an angle then as it it dragged through the machine it will contact the side and be pulled around and on through, it doesn't hang up or bind. This doesn't work for wider pieces I know but on anything less than 8 inches it seems to work for me.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Slartibartfass

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Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2017, 07:38 PM »
Thx for all the comments. I bit the bullet and told Santa to order the Dewalt 735 with in and out feed table today? Shelix head is for a latter day.....

Online SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 8378
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 09:15 PM »
Thx for all the comments. I bit the bullet and told Santa to order the Dewalt 735 with in and out feed table today? Shelix head is for a latter day.....

I have been using the 735 for about a year or so. Just used it today. I am very happy with it. I like the two speed feature and on the slow feed it produces a very smooth cut. Just using the standard OEM knives. I might get a new head when I use up these knives but not sure.

Snipe sometimes I get some sometimes I don't.  Rigidity , weight and length of board, all play factor.  I just allow for it when ever I can that way it is never a problem.

Seth

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 375
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2017, 08:33 PM »
Dewalt, too loud, too heavy, overrated, looks cool but it’s not portable
Makita just right, lighter, quieter, cuts better, and faster knife change, only 2.

Offline TXFIVEO

  • Posts: 192
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2018, 09:48 AM »
Dewalt 734....this thing runs like a champ is portable (if that matters).  Small footprint is also nice for those with minimal space like myself.  With my Jet Vortex DC I get very minimal dust. 

I have run maple, poplar, Alder, ash, white oak, red oak, and reclaimed wood with zero issues and very little if any snipe.   Only issue I had was it would occasionally trip the breaker when taking deeper cuts, but this issue was resolved by taking lighter passes and installing a dedicated planer outlet in the shop. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4473
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2018, 12:03 PM »
My question is are the helical head machines as good as the sales people say and what models would you recommend? 

Some background first, I owned a Dewalt 733 for 8-9 years, it served me well, I sold it to my neighbor and he's still using it. It's basically the same as the current 734 model.

I purchased a Dewalt 735 10 years ago and have been very happy with the performance. The nicest advantages over the 733/734 are:
1. It has an automatic cutter head lock. No more engaging and disengaging the cutter head lock everytime you change the feed depth.
2. It also has an incredibly powerful integral blower for chips. It's so strong that I no longer turn on my Jet Vortec DC when I use the 735. I just hook up the 4" hose, turn on the 735 and watch the chips flow into the Jet plastic bag. One less machine running and much less noise, much appreciated by the dogs and my wife. [big grin]

The one Dewalt 735 nemesis (along with its weight and bulk) has always been its soft steel blades and the fact that they cannot be resharpened and are considered disposable. I went through a set of blades just planing unpainted cedar.  [eek]  In order to get through that project without changing blades, I simply fed in the material at a slight angle so that it was skewed as it passed under the planer blades.

Consequently, after 8-9 years of sitting on the fence, I finally ordered a Byrd Shelix with bearings for the 735 in early December and just received it a few days ago. I plan on installing it within the next couple of days. I'll update my results at that time.  [smile]


« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 12:06 PM by Cheese »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4473
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 11:35 AM »
Consequently, after 8-9 years of sitting on the fence, I finally ordered a Byrd Shelix with bearings for the 735 in early December and just received it a few days ago. I plan on installing it within the next couple of days. I'll update my results at that time.  [smile]

Yesterday I swapped out the standard Dewalt 735 3-blade cutter head for a Byrd Shelix. It was pretty straight forward and only took about 90 minutes providing you have all the proper tools.   [big grin]

From a noise perspective it's like turning on a completely different machine.  The noise level, with the planer just turned on, with the old head was 96-98 dB, while the Shelix head registers in the 85-88 dB range. This -10 dB level equates to half of the noise.  [smile]  More importantly, the sharp scream that immediately hurt my ears is no longer there. I've never been able to operate the 735 without hearing protection because it produced such an intense shriek, and when you feed lumber in it just gets worse.

Now with the Shelix running and hearing protection on, when you feed boards into the 735, you have to listen for the change in pitch/noise level.  It's truly hard to believe that the sound signature can change that drastically by just changing the cutter head.

I ran some cedar through the planer and the cut quality of the Shelix is fine. I think the stock factory steel blades cut a little smoother but it's really, really tough to tell the difference. In the next couple of days I'll be planing down some maple, I'll see how that goes.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3554
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 08:19 AM »
90 minutes?  I chalk that up to your mechanical savoir faire.

The noise difference between the stock head and the Shelix really is night and day, even when you're operating with a fresh set of knives on the OEM unit.

I have yet to rotate the cutterheads since I made the switchover this summer (and I've been running it quite often over that period) but I'll be interested to see how they hold up with all the Ipe I've been passing through them over the past week.  I'm not quite sure what to even look for to tell if they're dulling.  On the stock head you could tell by the increased noise level and raggedness of the cut.  No difference that I've noticed so far with the Shelix.



Consequently, after 8-9 years of sitting on the fence, I finally ordered a Byrd Shelix with bearings for the 735 in early December and just received it a few days ago. I plan on installing it within the next couple of days. I'll update my results at that time.  [smile]

Yesterday I swapped out the standard Dewalt 735 3-blade cutter head for a Byrd Shelix. It was pretty straight forward and only took about 90 minutes providing you have all the proper tools.   [big grin]

From a noise perspective it's like turning on a completely different machine.  The noise level, with the planer just turned on, with the old head was 96-98 dB, while the Shelix head registers in the 85-88 dB range. This -10 dB level equates to half of the noise.  [smile]  More importantly, the sharp scream that immediately hurt my ears is no longer there. I've never been able to operate the 735 without hearing protection because it produced such an intense shriek, and when you feed lumber in it just gets worse.

Now with the Shelix running and hearing protection on, when you feed boards into the 735, you have to listen for the change in pitch/noise level.  It's truly hard to believe that the sound signature can change that drastically by just changing the cutter head.

I ran some cedar through the planer and the cut quality of the Shelix is fine. I think the stock factory steel blades cut a little smoother but it's really, really tough to tell the difference. In the next couple of days I'll be planing down some maple, I'll see how that goes.
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Offline Slartibartfass

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Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2018, 02:35 PM »
Here is the new Shelix head. Went with the OEM version (same diameter). Only took 3 month from order to delivery....


Offline jlt23

  • Posts: 11
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2018, 03:38 PM »
Did it come with the T25 torx and handle or did you add that to your order? I'm about to order one myself. Thanks

Offline Slartibartfass

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Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2018, 09:22 PM »
Did it come with the T25 torx and handle or did you add that to your order? I'm about to order one myself. Thanks

Yes, see picture in my thread about the 735.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4473
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2018, 10:00 PM »
90 minutes?  I chalk that up to your mechanical savoir faire.

Just stumbled upon this response Edward...you’re funny, Oh, how I wish it were so. 

Actually, I chalk it up to being stalled on a less traveled route on a Norton, 100 miles away from civilization with the Lucas points condenser becoming shorted out, and the only options available at the time were push the beast or out think the beast...and then depression set in.   [eek]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4473
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2018, 10:44 PM »
Malte, you’re gonna like this head. I used mine again this afternoon and it’s sweet, so much sweeter than those soft Dewalt steel blades.

I’d be interested in your evaluation.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3299
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2018, 09:11 AM »
@ear3 said,

“I have yet to rotate the cutterheads since I made the switchover this summer (and I've been running it quite often over that period) but I'll be interested to see how they hold up with all the Ipe I've been passing through them over the past week.  I'm not quite sure what to even look for to tell if they're dulling.  On the stock head you could tell by the increased noise level and raggedness of the cut.  No difference that I've noticed so far with the Shelix.”

Run a piece of soft pine through. Soft wood will crush under a dull knife while really hard wood will continue to be cut because it resists deflection.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4473
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2018, 11:51 AM »
Run a piece of soft pine through. Soft wood will crush under a dull knife while really hard wood will continue to be cut because it resists deflection.

Is that still the case with carbide insert tooling?

Offline BarneyD

  • Posts: 37
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2018, 12:24 PM »
@Cheese said:

"Actually, I chalk it up to being stalled on a less traveled route on a Norton, 100 miles away from civilization with the Lucas points condenser becoming shorted out, "

Many years ago I owned a Triumph also afflicted with Lucas electrics. I had a friend from across the pond who referred to Mr. Lucas as "The Prince of Darkness".  I've also heard it said that the only thing Lucas ever produced which didn't suck, was a vacuum cleaner.
Barney

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3299
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2018, 12:52 PM »
Run a piece of soft pine through. Soft wood will crush under a dull knife while really hard wood will continue to be cut because it resists deflection.

Is that still the case with carbide insert tooling?

Can't imagine why not... Is there any difference in metal working between dull HSS and dull carbide?

The bottom line is the quality of the planed surface. I can imagine that carbide might not perform as nicely on softwood as freshly and finely sharpened steel blades but the advantage of the steel will disappear fast and if sanding is part of the finishing process that advantage will be eliminated.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3554
Re: Bench top planner suggestions
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2018, 06:33 PM »
I actually did a finger test the other day, and they are still quite sharp -- even after having run a bunch of Ipe through over the past few months.


@ear3 said,

“I have yet to rotate the cutterheads since I made the switchover this summer (and I've been running it quite often over that period) but I'll be interested to see how they hold up with all the Ipe I've been passing through them over the past week.  I'm not quite sure what to even look for to tell if they're dulling.  On the stock head you could tell by the increased noise level and raggedness of the cut.  No difference that I've noticed so far with the Shelix.”

Run a piece of soft pine through. Soft wood will crush under a dull knife while really hard wood will continue to be cut because it resists deflection.
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