Author Topic: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .  (Read 25123 times)

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Offline Roger Savatteri

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Here in the usually sunny Los Angeles basin it's a dark, very rainy, Pacific Northwestern sort of day. Kinda reminds me of Portland, Oregon. Fitting, because I just received my email notification from UPS that the "Prototype" upgrade rails for the JMP ( Bridge City Tool Works - JM-P Jointmaker Upgrade Kit  ) are on it's way down here for my review and that I should have them in my hands by midweek.

Over the course of the rest of December ( the duration of the  "loan") I'll be documenting my review of the assembly process, the benefits in relation to the cost, and the engineering of the upgrade kit. I throw in my thoughts of how I feel it (the upgrade kit) would effect my work (and others) on the JMP either at home or in my shop.  At home I'm starting to work on some jewelry size projects (when insomnia strikes and on the weekends) where as in the shop the projects tend to be larger in scale.

I'll be performing comparable tasks with the upgrade prototype on my JMP as well as on the original version. I'll be rigging up my JMP with a barnyard version of the Jointmaker SW. (long fixed table on the right side) with the new "prototype" rail on the left, and documenting & commenting on  the whole affair.

There are some riggings that have been floating around in my head for working on larger works that the new rails would lend themselves to that I'll be experimenting on as well. I'll be starting with the more basic/common operations first and get to the more esoteric procedures further along in the review.

I'm thinking that the format of the review "this go around" will be in a more "real time" blog format in nature spread over three forums - talkFestool, FOG, and BCTW's. With my postings and comments from members interspersed together. So it will be interesting to see the respective feedbacks from each forum. Patience will be a virtue here, since my postings will more than likely be in the wee hours of the night. (west coast time)

Until the end of the week,
cheers,
Roger

For those new to the concept of Silent Woodworking and the Jointmaker Pro or have been marooned on some pacific island, go thru the postings on John's blog here on the JMP . . .
Bridge City Tools Behind the Scenes

PS. For those same folks, this whole review thing started with my first review on the JMP here on FOG . . .
The Complete "Jointmaker Pro" Review..... A Paradigm Shift in Woodworking

with a followup here  (Wednesday, July 9th, 2008 posting) . . . Jointmaker Pro Stationary Hand Saw | John's Blog - Part 2

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« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 09:52 PM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California

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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 07:09 PM »
 Roger,

 I saw John E demonstrate the Jointmaker at a ww show in PA in October(?) and have to admit it not a tool I would buy, but I can certainly appreciate the engineering/workmanship/ of the tool and am looking forward to your review. BTW, that's an  incredibly beautiful picture yo have there.

 Bob
Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!
            http://bobmarinosbesttools.com
                   Service As It Should Be

Offline neilc

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 08:37 PM »
Roger - glad to see you doing this.

I have ordered the upgrade for my JMP but will be looking closely to learn from your insights and tips.

neil

Offline wnagle

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 07:03 AM »
Roger,

I'm looking forward to your review as well and appreciate all your hard work!  I just pre ordered the JMP V2 and can't wait until it gets here.  Next I have to decide what I need to order with it besides more blades.  Any tips in that area would also be appreciated.
Wayne

 

TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120, DOMINO XL.

Offline mattfc

  • Posts: 553
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 07:36 AM »
Sadly Bridge City stuff is out of my price range for the use it will get, doesn't stop me drooling over it (I love their drill jig but at $499...)

Anoth site of pure tool beauty from the other side of the pond... this guy and his blog http://www.holteyplanes.com/blog/
Now to wet your appetite:-




Just great to read through the process and look at the pictures

Offline ForumMFG

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 09:34 AM »
For the people that already have the JMP, would you mind writing a little bit on how you like the tool and what application you use it in?  I have been on the fence about ordering the JMP because I don't know how much it will be used.  I am also a big fan of Bridge City Tools, I own some of their tools and pre-ordered 3 others.  I was able to get the Drilling Jig a couple weeks ago for $317 and it retails for $500.  It was a blem of which it's just 1 little dent on the bottom side that will never be seen so I lucked out.  It's a great tool and I hope to see more tools like this that you don't see to often.

Offline mattfc

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 10:32 AM »
I was able to get the Drilling Jig a couple weeks ago for $317 and it retails for $500

Thanks ForumMFG.. you have just spoilt my day!  [tongue]

So does it work as well as it looks like it does... am turning a shade of green!

Offline Roger Savatteri

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 11:28 AM »
For the people that already have the JMP, would you mind writing a little bit on how you like the tool and what application you use it in?  I have been on the fence about ordering the JMP because I don't know how much it will be used.

Regarding my affection for the JMP I like love it a lot and as time goes on and as it becomes more second nature I see using it more. For instance "today" I'll be using it to cut basic miters on some bamboo strips (1/2 inch strips cut from bamboo plywood) that I'm using to wrap around bamboo drawer fronts and doors as a framing element for a bathroom cabinet refacing project. (photos later on) There's a learning curve to the clamping procedures one needs to adhere to to using this device - which I'll get into in the days ahead.

The other day I was watching  a friends kid (an eight year old) for a few hours so we had some shop time together, so we started making a candle stick project and we he needed to cut wooden washers from a dowel so we went straight for the JMP. It didn't take him long to get the methodology to make the cuts. (though I did have to remind him more than once not to hold his push hand too close to the blade - I told him your mom's in the hospital visiting your dad, and I don't think you want to join him there!) I should add that he's taking shop classes with a group of kids once a month at a local woodworker's shop - so he's well on his way for the next generation of Festool and Bridge City users. It was amazing the first time I heard him talk about how beautiful the touches of sap wood work in Cocobolo! Did I mention that he wants to domino his candlestick holder together? [big grin]







As I've said before there is a learning curve for the general use of the JMP, it does have it quirks - which I'll touch on as we go along. What I'm really looking forward to is using it for some Japanese Joinery techniques that employ some weird repetitive angles, that I'll also touch on in the coming weeks. On my JMP at home I'm exploring some "jewelry" projects which entails cutting some very fine slices of spalted beech & maple and using the animated patterns that evolve from that process.  Being able to cut repetitive extremely fine slices one after another is a pure joy in a very zen sense. Ripping longer repetitive slices (rather than crosscuts) is more of a pain & I'm hoping the new rail assembly will improve upon this operation. I have a whole list of sculptural  projects in which I intend to use the benefits of this device in which I'll share as I go along.

Hopping over for a moment as to how the base I'm using to hold the JMP. It's important to hold it at an angle upwards from waste level. (Bridge City does make an optional stand)  As you could see for now I'm using the old style MFT 1080 braced with clamps for now, until I get around to making my own custom base. One mft 1080 or mft 800  could be used if you brace it against a wall (photos later on). In the pictures above I have three 1080 mft's attached together - so this eliminates any racking in the direction I have it facing.

I should throw in a mention that I don't see this as a replacement for my (user) collection of hand saws both Japanese & Western, it's another "go to" tool (instrument) to use when needed or the inspiration hits. (Although it has "replaced" many of the smaller operations that I would have might have done on my table-saw or chop saw)
And for those that haven't read my previous review it's not a job site tool to throw in back of the pickup!

cheers,
Roger



For further reading one should hop over to BCTW's forum where you could see other uses and read about issues about the JMP & the drilling Jig (DJ-1) from some of it's members, at.... http://www.bridgecitytools.com/discussion/ Rutager's  (rwest) posts are a particular favorite of mine.





Bob, thanks - that photo was actually taken with a little basic Olympus point and shoot as I was standing to the side with an umbrella over the stream near my house. (my better camera is in for repair.)


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« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 06:48 PM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California

Offline ForumMFG

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 12:04 PM »
I was able to get the Drilling Jig a couple weeks ago for $317 and it retails for $500

Thanks ForumMFG.. you have just spoilt my day!  [tongue]

So does it work as well as it looks like it does... am turning a shade of green!

Matt,

To be honest with you, I haven't touched it.  I just open the box once a day to admire it =).  I recently moved into a new home with a garage that has become my shop.  The garage came with no drywall, no electric, no insulation in the attic and no heater.  So i have been spending all my time getting my shop ready.  So far I have run the gas line for the heater, installed (3) 220 outlets and (3) 125 outlets on each wall, insulated the attic, and last night I have just finished applying drywall.  Now, I'm going to start mudding/painting/applying trim and then I'll be all set.  None of my tools are unpacked or setup.  Once I get my shop up and running I'll let you know how I like it!

Offline ForumMFG

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 12:05 PM »
Roger I seen your last post on the BCT forum, thanks for responding.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 02:43 PM »
Roger, that picture of the little guy standing on the milk create is priceless (and I do even like children).
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Roger Savatteri

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2009, 01:36 PM »
.

The "prototype" linear table mechanisms  (recirculating linear bearing system) arrived yesterday evening just as I needed to leave the studio. Of course I made the time to open up the package and at least perform the initial set up. My first impressions as I was walking the heavy box in from the UPS truck was, what else did Michael send put in there aside from the prototype rails and tables?  Answer - The Prototype rails and tables. The package weight read 18 pounds (including the box). As you could see from the photos below it's a substantial unit weighing about twice the original ways and tables. (I'll check the weight today) There is absolutely no slop between the new sliders and the rail - the tolerances are very tight. I carefully inserted each rail into the pockets that are cut into the front and rear plates of the JMP, being sure to bottom it out in the pockets. (see close up below) The next time I get in I?ll be following John?s checklist for aligning and securing the new upgrade. I have a bunch of miters to cut for a framing element on some bamboo cabinet doors and drawer fronts I?m making, so that will be the first task on my list. Hmmmm, naw! Cutting some maple 8/4 stock will be the first task!
 
Just pushing the tables back and forth as it loosely sat in its position was a pure joy. Yeah, it?s a little noisier and one will probably not be able to talk on the phone and make cuts at the same time without the person on the other end of the line knowing that they do not have your undivided attention!
Well, I could live with that.
 
Below you?ll see some comparable photos between the existing tables and ways and the upgrade prototype. John says that the production run will be laser etched white and that the sliders will be completely different although they will look quite similar.
 
Looking forward to my next installment.
 
Roger












Los Angeles, California

Offline Roger Savatteri

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2009, 01:36 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 01:42 PM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California

Offline Roger Savatteri

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2009, 01:37 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 01:44 PM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California

Offline ForumMFG

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2009, 02:16 PM »
Roger,

what exactly are you talking about here: "John says that the production run will be laser etched white"

Offline neilc

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 11:18 PM »
Wayne - you asked about accessories or tips...

I use the Rockler fence clamps with my JMP - drilled a series of 3/8 holes in the 3/4 wooden fence down from the top spaced across the fence.  I drop in the fence clamps to clamp cross-cut stop blocks.  Really speeds up repetitive cuts for me. 

ForumMFG - you asked how I use the JMP...

I use the JMP for all kinds of cuts - small boxes / sides, miters, etc.  A recent example - I was making inset drawers and needed to shave a 1/16 slice off of one end and used the JMP with a mirror finish cut - no risk of splintering.  I'm making a entertainment center and needed accurate lap joints for pieces that crossed with exposed joinery.  The JMP was excellent for that type of cut.  I also use it for dovetails.  It's very easy to quickly and accurately knock out a set of drawers with through dovetails with consistent and easy adjustment and repeatability.  The depth stop makes it a certainty you don't cut too deeply as well.  I've cut a lot with saws and routers, but the JMP gives a degree of fit that is excellent.

I have found the JMP gives me a lot more confidence in cutting small pieces particularly with repeatable precision.

Up next over the holidays when I get some time - I'm going to try some compound miters for some bowl / vase ideas I've been kicking around when I get time.

Roger - I have not tried the elevated back for the saw - I just have mine on either a workbench or the MFT/3 and it works pretty well for me.  I may try it seeing how you rigged the clamps.  Thanks for posting the photos.  Anxious to learn more from you.

neilc


Offline Roger Savatteri

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 07:41 AM »
Roger, what exactly are you talking about here: "John says that the production run will be laser etched white"

Allow me to clarify, the laser white etching is in regards to the safety warnings that (line & hand) are on the table tops.
The "prototype" that was sent to me did not have the production quality etching on the table surfaces, the final run will be brighter.

While we are on the subject, (after an e-mail to John) I like to clarify as well some other points.........

The actual rails will be the same design & same black color.  
The "SAFETY" graphics of the production model will be the same quality as the original JMP tables.
The tables will be the same color orange.
The linear sliders will be different yet look the same, the production slider's (which encloses the linear bearings)  decibel level will be the same as the one's sent.
The tables will be slightly smaller, Hole pattern changes because of slot re-location. Functionality is identical.



.

Los Angeles, California

Offline wnagle

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 09:22 AM »
Neilc,

I do have 4 of the rockler fence clamps that I use on my sheet goods cutting table.  I can see how they would work great the way you describe.   Thanks for the tip!
Wayne

 

TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120, DOMINO XL.

Offline jvsteenb

  • Posts: 363
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 10:13 AM »
The black colour could be a decent engineering decision: colour anodising ( like the nice blue colour ) is easily done using type II anodising, but the surface hardness of type III anodising ( or hardcoat anodising ) is far superior, that would make this coating type preferable over type II colour anodising for a slide rail.
The only colour that's easily accomplished in a Type III hardcoat anodising is black - very dark green or brown are also possible, but far less common.

So if the colour change reflects a change to type III hardcoat anodising, that's certainly an improvement.


Regards,

Job
TS55, OF1010, RO150, RTS400, PS300, T15+3, CTL22E, CMS-TS55+Basis5A (OF1010), MFT/3, MFS400/700, FS800-1080-1400-1900, Centrotec-SYS 09, DF 500 full set, some accessories :)

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 11:03 AM »
I saw John demonstrate the original prototype of the new linear rails at a WW show in October. It used the same design and materials (or very nearly so) except that the ball rearings were steel. They were noisy but even worse is that after only a couple of hours use they had become even noisier as the anodized coating on the rails wore down.

The principle improvement over the early Fall version is that the steel balls have been replaced with acetal plastic (Delrin) so the anodized races should be long lived (and much quieter than the steel balls) as long as nothing worse than sawdust joins the balls.


Thomson, one of the leaders in linear bearings says "Acetal balls are similar to nylon but slightly harder and denser. Delrin bridges the gap between metals and ordinary plastics with a unique combination of strength, stiffness, hardness, dimensional stability, toughness, fatigue resistance, solvent and fuel resistance, abrasion resistance, low wear and low friction."

Offline Roger Savatteri

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2009, 06:59 AM »
.

Reflections at 3am.

The new rails rock!

My JMP with the (prototype) upgrade kit followed me home for the weekend.
This Monday I'll start posting my thoughts on the new rails taking into account that I have been using the JMP since it first came out.
I'll talk about whether it is worth the money to upgrade to the linear rails, what the differences are and what one could do with the original tables and ways if one does upgrade.
I'll talk about what the changes would mean to the new owners of the JMP-v2 as well as the JMP-sw.

enjoy your weekend,
Roger








« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 07:10 AM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California

Offline Roger Savatteri

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2009, 10:28 AM »
.

A General Review of the new Linear Tables for the Jointmaker Pro  (JMPv2 & JMP Upgrade Kit) from Bridge City Tools
 
I'll cut right to the point (perfect pun don't you think?): I have been a Jointermaker Pro user since its introduction and was more than curious as to whether it?s worth the money to upgrade my Jointmaker Pro to the v2. Through this review you should be able to gain enough information to decide if the new JMP v2, the new JMP SW (single wing) or the upgrade kit is for you. I will not (at this time) bury you with details and insights to work methods, clamping set-ups (even if you see hints in the photos), nor will I repeat my review of the JMP from a year ago.
 
Note: Whenever I write JMP-v1, I am referring to the original JMP introduced about a year ago.

On the New Linear Rails . . .
 
Switching from the original dovetail system to the new ball bearing linear rails...
 
. . . is like the feeling you got from going uphill on a cruiser bike and then switching to a geared system bicycle.
 
. . . is like going cross-country skiing then switching to downhill skis.
 
. . . is like massage with oil as opposed to bare hands.

I think you get my point; they all get you to the same destination with less effort.
 
With that in mind it is important to note that the quality of the cuts between the two linear table systems is identical.  Comparing a perfectly tuned JMP-v1 to the upgrade version you can't help but notice that the inertia and reduced effort of the new linear slides makes the cutting experience feel "breezy". There is an absence of drag with the linear slides that is inherent with the dovetail design. Especially when one travels the full length of the original ways - pushing through a cut, and then returning.
 
The new rails provide more momentum with less effort during the cut..



  . . . . .  

 
Cutting small stock or cutting shallow cuts on large stock, whether it be squiggle wood, cutting dovetails, joinery cuts or chamfer cuts - the inertia of the new rails makes this an easier operation. Where the new system really shines are lengthy sessions for all the above. There was not the same feeling of fatigue as with the dovetail system. That being said if you are just an occasional user and working with balsa like wood for architectural models I'm not quite convinced that you would need to upgrade.
 
I found for instance when I was cutting the ripped piece you see below it became a "breezy experience" -  which on the dovetail system is usually a tedious process.



. . . . .    



In the short time I've been using the upgrade I'm surprised at the robust quality of the linear rail system. There have been times in the past with the dovetail system where when you get a little ahead of yourself and you push the workpiece (trap clamped to the tables) into the blade; and the work piece and the blade become jammed. This then necessitates slowly backing the blade out and wiggling out the work piece, which sometimes leads to loosening the dovetail to table alignment - which then leads to having to recalibrate the tables. (An easy adjustment - but annoying interruption to one's workflow.) In the couple of times I got ahead of myself - that didn't happen with the upgrade rails. While I'm on that topic - if for some reason the table to rail alignment (bearing slop) does get out of whack there will be adjustment ports thru the bottom of the rail to adjust the screws that hold the table to the rails. On the prototype rails I have, only one rail has adjustment ports. Keep in mind that if you remove the factory installed linear bearing housing that is attached to the rails, (the sliders) all heck will break loose and you will probably void your warranty, as you will have acetyl ball bearings showering all around you.
 
While we are on the topic of linear bearings here's a brief animation with an x-ray view on how they work.
(I should note that the animation below is generic in form, and with no connection to BCTW's linear bearings - I'm just showing the similarity of motion.)
  

 
Keep in mind that the bearings in the JMP upgrade are acetyl (to reduce the noise level & the wear on the track) This system requires no lubrication and has no need for constant re-adjustment on the table / rails. The hydroscopic movement due to weather changes to the original dovetail sliders is no longer an issue. The noise level is definitely higher on the upgrade version, to where if you were multi-tasking while on the phone your caller would know that you were up to something. (Not so on the JMP-v1 - I know, I've done it many a time) Working at 2 am in the morning is possible however, unless your spouse is a very heavy sleeper you might want to set up in the room adjacent to the bedroom rather than the bedroom itself.
 
As a somewhat close re-enactment of the sound level - go to a drawer in your kitchen with full extension slides - older Accuride style slides are best - and slide it back and forth - putting some weight on the front drawer-face, its a little louder than that rolling sound, not including the sounds/clicks you hear at full and closed extensions. (This re-enactment does not work with Blum hardware!)
 
And one more little detail - Did I say - No lubrication required!
 
The Big Question . . .
 
Will I order the upgrade? Without a hesitation - yes.
Am I upset that there is a significant upgrade, just shy of a year from its original introduction? Actually, no and no. For the first no - I'm glad BCTW's was able to come up with a radical improvement on efficiency & ease of use on their next generation of JMP's and make the improvement available as an upgrade on an existing design.
For the second - "no", having the original JMP allows me with very little modification to have the ability  to switch for an expanded use, inappropriate here, but I will soon share my  thoughts on the Bridge City Tools Forum.
 
What I am more surprised at is that they have made such a dramatic change in the design of the JMP series without an escalation in price. In the days ahead I will go into more detail of using the new system as a single table user (simulating the JMP-sw), but with what I've done up till now is that for the majority of the cuts, a single slider is very efficient and effective.  I tested the single table idea because the new JMP SW only has one sliding table.
 
The Down Side . . .
 

I have to say that I'm trying very hard here to list the negatives,
And the negatives a more annoyances to work around with!
 
The first - being the access slot on the outside edge of each table. (The ones directly over the new rails) Once the back fence is set up, in order to put through either the short bolt or longer bolt for the wood clamp one needs to pull the table all the way forward so the slot on the table extends to over the back plate - so you then feed the bolt thru at that point. (See photo) On the JMP-v1, one accesses the outside slots through the ways to feed the bolt.
 
This may be a matter of the "Prototype" version, but the access slot for the feeding of the short bolts in front outside slots of the table (to hold the back fence) when extending the table over the front plate - is a very tight feed-through. That would be remedied by making the table/slot just a little bit longer.
 
The sound, you'll get use to it - the JMP-v1 does have more of a Zen quality to it.

This is a surprise to me but using the JMP w/v2 upgrade rails, makes me want to use the tool more--resulting in one's disappearance from household activities, chores & family movie watching.
Now that can be a huge positive or a huge negative? I'll keep you posted!
  
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

In the next few weeks I'll be fielding questions from both forum members and visitors while I have use of the upgrade prototypes. I will also be documenting different clamping procedures and techniques that I have come to use.
 
all the best,
Roger Savatteri


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« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 11:19 AM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2161
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2009, 09:58 PM »
Thanks Roger -

Great insights and very helpful.

Can you tell us what the red clamp you are using as a hold-down is on your JMP table?

Is it metal, plastic, or what?

Thanks - looking forward to more.

neil

Offline Roger Savatteri

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Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2009, 11:15 PM »
.
Neil,

Thank you for your thoughts.
Actually the same question was asked earlier on tF, plus a question about my "donuts" on the clamping block.

So here's my reply copied over.......

Quote from: Poto
.... what is that very cool stand-up clamp that you have? And what's with the little donuts on the clamping block? ...

I'm really getting to like that stand up clamp & you'll see me using it more in coming set-ups. It's called a rack clamp and the manufacturer is Des-taco and it's very lightweight and made  from high strength glass reinforced nylon. It is non-metallic and resistant against chemicals.  see.....http://www.dawntools.com.au/products/Composite_Non_Metalic_Clamps_34_81.pdf
Once upon a time Lee Valley was selling it & a couple of other composite models and then discontinued selling them. I picked them up when they were on special buy at the end with the intention of using them for some sort of jig or for fiberglass projects to use in conjunction with tooling set ups. I'm glad I did.
Keep in mind that in order to alleviate binding / flexing of the tabletops one needs to take care when applying too much pressure with the surface clamps.

As to the little donuts on the clamping block,,,, think tires on a tugboat.
Sometimes, depending on the workpiece to be held - I find the "tugboat tires" holds a bit firmer than the sandpaper.
I found them back in my misc. hardware drawers!
(they are held on with very strong double face tape)
note: when I use the "tugboat" side of the clamp block above, I flip it the other way.






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« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 11:30 PM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California

Offline irvin00

  • Posts: 69
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2009, 06:41 AM »
Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but the price is insanely high for what is clearly a specialty item. That said, I realize the manufacturer is entitled to charge whatever is appropriate to conduct his business at a profit. My opinion is just an ultra-mini-micro-review based on weighing the publicized features against the total price of the tool. It's a no-buy for me.

Offline ForumMFG

  • Posts: 808
    • Forum MFG
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2009, 07:20 AM »
Are you talking about the clamp roger just described?  Or the JMP?

Offline irvin00

  • Posts: 69
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2009, 08:49 AM »
Both. The assembled JMP is $1,545.00 - the upgrade is $438.00

The total after taxes and shipping is well over two grand. I don't know - that's serious dough to me. But then again, I'm a hobbist, so a pro (or a wealthy hobbist!) may have a different perspective.

Offline ForumMFG

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    • Forum MFG
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2009, 09:23 AM »
I'm pretty sure the tax is included in the selling price and if you read the website, shipping is free right now.  You may want to double check that though.  Never would I pay someone a couple hundred bucks to put something together for me.  It may take a couple hours to complete it but it would save you money.  So, if you pay $45 you can become a founders circle member and get the tool for $1195.  If not you get it for $1295.  If you think about it, you pay $45 to save an extra $55 plus then you get discount on any other tool you buy for 1 year.  If you are already a member then you save $100. Regardless if you are a hobbyist or pro, if the JMP is something you can use then I don't think it is over priced at all.  It really is an amazing machine made of great components, materials, and engineering.

Offline irvin00

  • Posts: 69
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2009, 09:51 AM »
ForumFMG wrote:

"Regardless if you are a hobbyist or pro, if the JMP is something you can use then I don't think it is over priced at all."

I disagree, but I respect your opinion. I personally feel that there are things overpriced, regardless of how useful they may or may not be to you. Festool's Kapex is a good (if controversial) example; I paid roughly $450 for the Milwaukee 6955-20 Miter Saw, and the machine - including dust extraction - is every bit as good as the Kapex.; even if the Kapex is better overall, it is clearly not twice or three times as good. I feel the same way about BridgeCity tools - I will admit, though, that they do "look the (expensive) part". heck, if I were a wealthy guy I would just pay for the JMP without batting an eye! I really mean it. :-)


"It really is an amazing machine made of great components, materials, and engineering."

It does look very, very nice, indeed.

Offline Roger Savatteri

  • Posts: 506
    • www.savatteridesigns.com
Re: Bridge City Toolworks "Jointmaker Pro Upgrade" Review . . .
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2009, 09:54 AM »
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Forum is correct.... as a Founder member the JMP-v2 is $1195.  to your door. (shipping is included) Only if you live in Oregon could there be taxes.

The JMP-sw does about 95% of the cuts the JMP-v2 does, so thats $795. .............to your door.

I would highly suggest & recommend self - assembly.

The only reason one would need the upgrade is if you already have the original model JMP  (the new technology is within both the JMP-v2 & the JMP-sw)

And upgrading is optional not necessary.

note ....and if you have the original model JMP, one is more than likely a Founder member,,,,, so that makes the Upgrade $399. delivered.

All versions of the JMP are highly engineered hybrid machines made for precision work.

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« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 10:03 AM by Roger Savatteri »
Los Angeles, California