Author Topic: Lamello Zeta P2  (Read 20277 times)

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Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2016, 04:00 AM »
I asked her ladyship if she had 20 minutes...
We went to the garage and I fired up the Zeta on two scraps of melamine'ed MDF.
I installed the Clamp-X into the pieces.

Here eyes flickered... and she said, "I have an idea".

Then the next 2 hours were spent drawing up a cabinet for her craft room, and the cutting list.

@Holmz we all want the entire incident documented on YouTube ... could make for an easy business case to the director of finances [big grin]

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2016, 04:31 AM »
She is brilliant on many fronts.
Cutting lists and offsets for edge banding are not in the set...

I can do a photo of the finished product though.

The original task was to modify an IKEA style 4x2 cubby holed system to add in some shelves.
It was a win to get it out of MDF in the exact size.
I have 2 weeks...

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2016, 03:42 AM »
...
@Holmz we all want the entire incident documented on YouTube ... could make for an easy business case to the director of finances [big grin]

@Kev
So the Minister has a bunch of papercraft stamps that are in DVD sized boxes.

Sunday:
Drawing and cut list: 1-1/2

Monday evening:
I cut all the white MDF to size 140-mm wide.
The the shelves 545-mm.
The top and bottom to 545+32 -2 ( the -2 for the edge banding)
That took 2-1.2 hours. I am not overly fast, and cut the 140 on the fold out card table with 2 bosch 1600 rails joined.

Tuesday:
Dropped then off at the

Thursday:
Picked up the edge banded MDF.
Marked out the centre on the 7 shelves and top and bottom and lamello'ed the male ClampX and installed them.
(1 hour)
Marked the female ClampX spacing on the left and right pieces, and the centres.
(45 minutes, with some of that installing the Triple-J radio app on the iPad)
Made sure it all was proper in the room.
Then Lamello'ed them in. (20 minutes)
Cleaned the pencil marks off (15 minutes)
Put it together (10 Minutes)
Put it in the room and decided on the base dimensions...
Removed the base.
Cut the 40-mm base which was edge banded all around to (2x) 122, and 537.
I did not go far enough on the 45 degree cuts, so I had a step I removed by sliding a chisel across it.
Glued and clamped it to the base.
(~2-3/4 hours)

Friday (today):
Installed the base. (5-minutes)

What is left is to attach it to the wall.


It is nothing too fancy, and I dislike using MDF, but the minister is happy.

Sheet of MDF: $62
Edge Banding: $50
Clampex (19): $40
~7 hours... (yeah... I am slow)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 03:48 AM by Holmz »

Offline alkaline

  • Posts: 390
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2016, 05:34 AM »
That debate me very interested. I politely asked the local office for a demonstration of the toy. They came, demonstrated and lent it to me for a few days. It's a great tool. My Wishlist is again extended.


 [smile] [wink] [smile]
I have several boxes Festool, one MTF, four guide rails and big taste to play. )))

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2016, 07:10 AM »
Sheet of MDF: $62
Edge Banding: $50
Clampex (19): $40
~7 hours... (yeah... I am slow)

@Holmz would easily have taken me twice as long!

I notice you left out the cost of the Zeta [wink] [big grin]

.. a Conturo would have been useful [cool]

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2016, 07:21 AM »
@Kev it was worth every euro to keep the minister happy. V-Day is done (early).

I need to support local somehow, so they got the centuro work.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1183
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2016, 09:04 AM »
Can these biscuits be easily removed for dry fitting then disassembly for finishing work?  Or would you just have to leave them in the panels during finishing?
-Raj

Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 828
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2016, 09:55 AM »
Can these biscuits be easily removed for dry fitting then disassembly for finishing work?  Or would you just have to leave them in the panels during finishing?

The Clamex and Bisco can be easily removed.  The Tenso cannot be removed, once it is assembled it is intended to stay.

Offline alkaline

  • Posts: 390
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2016, 10:07 AM »
That's the best. They can be easily removed and reused several times. This is also true for Tenso if you choose not to use glue.

I have several boxes Festool, one MTF, four guide rails and big taste to play. )))

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2016, 10:10 AM »
Typically you use the bisco for dry fitting. They're just a thicker fiberglass reinforced biscuit that fits the groove cut by the zeta. On their own they're a good biscuit if you want to use them as such. They can be glued in the same manner you would a regular biscuit and are cheaper than either tenso or clamex. Also great for dry fitting, to check ytour work before you use the other connectors. The zeta system really is fantastic!

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3522
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2016, 10:49 AM »
The zeta system really is fantastic!

You guys are killing me over here...
Tim

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3522
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2016, 10:50 AM »
My Wishlist is again extended.

Ya no kidding, and that systainer with the various fittings is nice too!
Thanks.
Tim

Offline alkaline

  • Posts: 390
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2016, 11:13 AM »
The zeta system really is fantastic!

You guys are killing me over here...
Tim

It's true. It is sweet, but this is a pretty sight. And it hurts me too. I wanted this year to buy a Leica Q. Haha. That it is February only, I see it on a difficult year.


 [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]
I have several boxes Festool, one MTF, four guide rails and big taste to play. )))

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2016, 02:40 PM »
Is that a lamello hair dryer, to waft the vanilla bourbon aromas across the room?

Offline Knight Woodworks

  • Posts: 217
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2016, 05:29 PM »
Are the Divarios removable? In other words could they be used for knock down casework?

John

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2016, 05:45 PM »
The Divarios seem like they get "set" during installation, but then the shelve is shipped as a knock-down.flat-pack, with it installed.

I think that the Tenso are not able to come apart, or if so I need to figure it out.

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 209
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2016, 07:14 PM »
Anyone have experience with the Lamello Invis Mx2-System?

I could see running dry fit Dominos between the Lamello fittings to help with alignment.

Interesting, especially, for a design that needs to break down and be shipped but hopefully more reliable than Ikea type designs.

Thanks

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2016, 07:37 PM »
No @mcooley but I have been eyeing it.
For sheet goods the Zeta-p2 is ideal and I have enough to do with them.
There is only the 6-mm wrench hole with the ClampX and they sell covers by the 100 or 50 pack.

For thicker wood, like maybe table legs then the Invis can  make sense.
Table legs are probably not the best example as they require a super strong joint, and the fixings are under the table anyhow. I am not sure what I would use them for... But I keep chin(s) scratching.

Based upon on nice the Zeta is, I have to believe that the Invis must also be "swiss precision".

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2016, 07:58 PM »
I've been looking at Invis for a while ... I haven't come up with a justification ... YET. I'm a little curious about using it for fitting fins to a timber surfboard (projects still an eon away). To me, nothing looks worse on the underside of a beautiful timber board than generic plastic fin boxes!!

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 209
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2016, 08:23 PM »
Systems like these are intriguing. Thanks for the info. I wonder if anyone has invented a "dry glue" system? A thin glue strip that would bond under pressure just like traditional wood glue, except, no squeeze out and less movement during clamping.

I know 3M and others make UHB/VHB double-stick that they actually use on steel and for mounting glass in buildings. I've seen demos online where the adhesive bonds metal and seems to be permanent.

m

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2016, 08:31 PM »
@mcooley - The Tenzo jobs are like a zip tie, or mechanical diode. You bang them together and the ratchet shut.

So the glue gets put on and they Tenzos hold it together until the glue sets.

I will probably get some, but I like the ClampX as if I bone something up, then I can take it apart.
Plus I can flat pack things for the kiddies, who are past kiddie stage.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2016, 08:37 PM »
Systems like these are intriguing. Thanks for the info. I wonder if anyone has invented a "dry glue" system? A thin glue strip that would bond under pressure just like traditional wood glue, except, no squeeze out and less movement during clamping.

I know 3M and others make UHB/VHB double-stick that they actually use on steel and for mounting glass in buildings. I've seen demos online where the adhesive bonds metal and seems to be permanent.

m

I'm curious about the glue they use for glass on skyscrapers every time I walk underneath them [scared] I was 30 seconds from walking under a spot a little while ago when a window cleaning crew plummeted to the ground .. I look up a lot now! (no, it wasn't a glue failure problem)

I tend to think wood is too porous for these hi-tech bonds and doesn't have appropriate material structure. Love to see it though!

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 209
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2016, 08:46 PM »
It's funny if you read some of 3M literature they list wood as an acceptable material. They do say it needs to be sealed. Which basically means you would put a sealer over the surface to be bonded, strange. I'd like to experiment with them some day. I know some of the "foam types" are quite thick, however, they do have thinner ones as well. I was imaging something like what they put on the back of PSA edge banding. If they have that product you would think they would have something of similar thickness for doing permanent structural wood bonds etc.

Would love to hear from a materials science engineer about all of this! Anyhow, did the cleaning crew survive?

m

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2016, 09:01 PM »
...
Would love to hear from a materials science engineer about all of this! Anyhow, did the cleaning crew survive?

m

No, but they realised the gravity of the situation pretty early on.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2016, 11:19 PM »
Don't make me start pulling out videos of linear friction welding wood together.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2016, 01:22 AM »
It's funny if you read some of 3M literature they list wood as an acceptable material. They do say it needs to be sealed. Which basically means you would put a sealer over the surface to be bonded, strange. I'd like to experiment with them some day. I know some of the "foam types" are quite thick, however, they do have thinner ones as well. I was imaging something like what they put on the back of PSA edge banding. If they have that product you would think they would have something of similar thickness for doing permanent structural wood bonds etc.

Would love to hear from a materials science engineer about all of this! Anyhow, did the cleaning crew survive?

m

I never heard the final detail, but I think it was pretty much one dead and the other extremely critical [sad]

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2016, 04:54 AM »
Since the Zeta is working, it was time for a Liechtenstein version of a Plug-it (Neutrik TrueOne) to go onto it to make it connect to the CT26 without having to change cords.
And also the euro cord on the DEROS...

http://www.neutrik.com/en/industrial/powercon/nac3mx-w

I also put on the sleeving onto the 2 14' cords from the CT26 (or wall) to the tool.
The ~75' (20+M) one I left yellow.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 04:56 AM by Holmz »

Offline alkaline

  • Posts: 390
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2016, 08:49 AM »
Is that a lamello hair dryer, to waft the vanilla bourbon aromas across the room?


Ha. I would say this picture it´s delegation for Invis welcome. But someone overtook of me. In any case, according to the paper, it is 250 kg load per joint. It seems that the Swiss go to the full.

 [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]
I have several boxes Festool, one MTF, four guide rails and big taste to play. )))

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2016, 09:57 AM »
I can put up some numbers according to my manual as far as strength for each connector goes. One thing to note is the mechanical connection of the t-slot cut by the zeta. No other joining machine other than the Hoffman butterfly cutter does anything like that. Don't really like the idea of the Hoffman though I've never put one to use.

Offline alkaline

  • Posts: 390
Re: Lamello Zeta P2
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2016, 10:39 AM »
Good to know, thanks.
I have several boxes Festool, one MTF, four guide rails and big taste to play. )))