Author Topic: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw  (Read 82505 times)

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Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2015, 04:22 PM »




Love this "circular cut" feature [emoji14][emoji106]

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3995
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2015, 04:53 PM »
... but can the Mafell jigsaw ride the Festool rail?
...

Reminds me of a blue blues song with the hobos riding the rail.
"The New Panama Limited", is a modern example.

Or someone could write a blue song about FT rails.
"I missed my connection blues".

Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #122 on: December 07, 2015, 05:25 PM »




Love this "circular cut" feature [emoji14][emoji106]

I will actually try this tomorrow. Totally forgot about that feature!
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #123 on: December 08, 2015, 02:42 AM »




Love this "circular cut" feature [emoji14][emoji106]

I will actually try this tomorrow. Totally forgot about that feature!

Things I miss by refusing to read manuals. I might try it too, was completely unaware.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #124 on: December 08, 2015, 04:16 AM »


@ Tom + Ghost: I'm guessing you can't have the splinter guard installed while using the coping foot ?
Did you notice any splinter issues ?

One mistake a lot of users make is to try to use a fine toothed blade for coping with the Coping Foot. It may sound counterintuitive, but my best results have been with rather aggressive blades, as they tend to be more stout and can stand up to tighter turns.

I realized that recently. I have been using the tiny little Bosch laminate blades that allow you to do tight turns. Then while using my new cordless carvex I tried a scribe (cope) with a trion blade. Well it actually worked better , as you say they're stiffer so don't twist like the smaller blades.

Offline VaDimZH

  • Posts: 173
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #125 on: March 31, 2016, 02:05 AM »
I can do it with ANY jig saw ! Whats a point ?

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #126 on: March 31, 2016, 05:57 AM »
I think the point is that you set a pin right in the base to do this specific radius. It's just another feature of the saw.

Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #127 on: April 02, 2016, 02:14 AM »
VaDimZH:

The point is: the point! ;)

It has a point/needle under the sole which sets the radius to the standard hole saw for ac outlets. It is not "necessary to have" on a jigsaw - but it is clever!

:)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 93
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #128 on: December 03, 2016, 06:37 AM »
Mhea... I don't see what all the fuss is about...
For starters, if it doesn't take the Collins Coping Foot- you can keep it...
What is the fuss all about?

Try this on any other jigsaw (135mm diameter in 1-1/2in scaffold board - not soft, easy to cut chipboard like most people demo with):



The Collins foot is now available (in the UK from Toolovation  - they also sell models for the Carvex and generic jigsaws) and I have one  ;D  Nobody needs one - until they have to scribe quantities of massive oak cornice (crown) mouldings. Thanks to Tom Gensmer for making it possible  [not worthy]

Te P1cc is out and out the most powerful jigsaw out there. It also has a superb angle base which allows you to cut left sides, then swap the base round to make identical right-side cuts. This can be brilliant when making complex scribes - the Collins foot diesn't do everything. Oh, and the P1cc bases attach and adjust without the need for tools. Not so bothered about the track, but pretty accurate with a W1 and the (Mafell) track

I've had mine 9 months. It replaced a Bosch GST135BCE which was bought in comparison to a Trion. I looked at the Carvex, too, but it wasn't for me

Only downside to the P1cc is the price - that  was a massive ask for any tool and stalled my purchase several times.

Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #129 on: December 03, 2016, 09:02 AM »
Maybe a square on the cut scaffold board could show how square the P1cc cuts,

if you have the time, thanks job and Knock.

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #130 on: December 03, 2016, 10:19 AM »
Mhea... I don't see what all the fuss is about...
For starters, if it doesn't take the Collins Coping Foot- you can keep it...
What is the fuss all about?

Try this on any other jigsaw (135mm diameter in 1-1/2in scaffold board - not soft, easy to cut chipboard like most people demo with):

(Attachment Link)

The Collins foot is now available (in the UK from Toolovation  - they also sell models for the Carvex and generic jigsaws) and I have one  ;D  Nobody needs one - until they have to scribe quantities of massive oak cornice (crown) mouldings. Thanks to Tom Gensmer for making it possible  [not worthy]

Te P1cc is out and out the most powerful jigsaw out there. It also has a superb angle base which allows you to cut left sides, then swap the base round to make identical right-side cuts. This can be brilliant when making complex scribes - the Collins foot diesn't do everything. Oh, and the P1cc bases attach and adjust without the need for tools. Not so bothered about the track, but pretty accurate with a W1 and the (Mafell) track

I've had mine 9 months. It replaced a Bosch GST135BCE which was bought in comparison to a Trion. I looked at the Carvex, too, but it wasn't for me

Only downside to the P1cc is the price - that  was a massive ask for any tool and stalled my purchase several times.



Well I bought the Mafell, I tried it for a week and I am back to my Bosch. The darn Mafell barrel grips are horrible for me, just as are all the other barrel grips.  If I cant control the speed with the trigger and if I cant get my hand around the thing and if I can't stop the blade from moving with the one hand I am holding the jig(meaning my trigger finger) it's an 800.00 piece of metal sitting on my bench.

Sorry, but the Bosch is still the king of jigs and until Mafell makes a D handle(if they do I cant find one) the Bosch will always be the king of the hill for 50% of all woodworkers that can't stand not being able to hold the tool and control the speed and STOP the cut with a fingers touch.

I recently tested 5 different jig saws(corded) , my conclusion, the Bosch is my favorite. It leaves the best cut top and bottom, does the best dust collection,  is the simplest to control by a huge margin and if price is factored in, well its not even close.

This week I am testing cordless jig saws and right now have 4 cordless versions. I am testing against the corded Bosch and still none of them touch the Bosch, not even the cordless Bosch itself. So back they go as well. One thing I have learned is there isn't one cordless jig that compares to any of the corded jigs yet. Not if dust collection and rpm/power ratio's are considered.

The Mafell may cut deep and square, that's great, but the Bosch is near as good and for the majority of everything else(actually everything else), in my hand the Bosch is king.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 10:29 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 725
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #131 on: December 03, 2016, 10:44 AM »
@Dovetail65 which Bosch Jig are you using? Thinking about upgrading mine.

thanks

Ron

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2340
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #132 on: December 03, 2016, 05:59 PM »
If you do not like barrel grip saws, this the Mafell is not the choice. But, it cuts better than any other jigsaw hands down in my experience. Thick or thin stock, curves, straight, you name it - the cut quality is unsurpassed by anything else I have tried. Now, I actually really like barrel grip saws and do not need the feather-trigger in the work I do and if I did, then I too would want a top-handle. I actually looked at and considered on the JS572 in top-handle when they first came out and opted for the barrel grip of the same saw. I like it as well, but it does not come close to the Mafell in cut-quality or squareness of cut. I also have a Carvex and owned and sold a Trion earlier this year.

I think that the Bosch is a great saw and agree that it will meet the needs of many people. I use my jigsaw for joinery cuts that are awkward for a bandsaw or require jigs and complicated TS set-ups and so I can trust the Mafell for perfect cuts in these scenarios and it is worth every penny.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 434
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #133 on: December 04, 2016, 07:43 AM »
Festool should copy  the p1cc design  and  make  some improvements.
Like increase  the space  between   the  plunger  and work  surface  so that there is more visibility  to see the cutting line.
And make a D handle version. And of course offer it at a cheaper price.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3995
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #134 on: December 04, 2016, 07:48 AM »
Festool should copy  the p1cc design  and  make  some improvements.
Like increase  the space  between   the  plunger  and work  surface  so that there is more visibility  to see the cutting line.
And make a D handle version. And of course offer it at a cheaper price.

Is the patent is 25 years?

Competition is good for the consumers.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 434
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #135 on: December 04, 2016, 07:52 AM »
No idea.
I thought when you changed the design slightly  then patents don't stand?

Did fein have a patent   for the multitool?
Was glad to see  them knocked of their perch with that tool. Only a matter of time before mafell is too.

Fein, Festool, Bosch, Metabo  and  Mafell. All made in   Germany afaik.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 08:08 AM by Lbob131 »

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 93
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #136 on: December 04, 2016, 08:18 AM »
Well I bought the Mafell, I tried it for a week and I am back to my Bosch. The darn Mafell barrel grips are horrible for me, just as are all the other barrel grips.  If I cant control the speed with the trigger and if I cant get my hand around the thing and if I can't stop the blade from moving with the one hand I am holding the jig(meaning my trigger finger) it's an 800.00 piece of metal sitting on my bench.
You don't like barrel grips. So you'll never like the P1cc. Period. In Germany, where the P1cc originates, barrel grips are actually pretty common in the same way that D-handles are the norm for site use in the UK where I work, except for kitchen fitters where barrel grips are gaining ground fast - and if you ever need to do a 6ft scribe in a 40mm wide strip you'll understand just why they are preferred by certain trades. Like most tradesmen I tend to set the fastest useable speed and most appropriate pendulum before making a cut then just run with it - no hesitation or deviation - to the end of the cut. Rarely need to do trapped cuts, but if I do I simply reverse the saw slightly at which point the orbital action stops as well. And I keep hearing from people about the need to be able to change cutting speed on the fly but I don't ever see guys doing it. Why is this?

I recently tested 5 different jig saws(corded) , my conclusion, the Bosch is my favorite. It leaves the best cut top and bottom, does the best dust collection
The cut quality is probably more down to the blade choice in my experience. As for dust extraction - well both the Carvex and the P1cc are ahead of the Bosch GST135BCE, GST140CE and GST160CE. I tried them all out with MDF and chipboard using T101B and T101BR blades before buying a P1cc and that was my conclusion

Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 93
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #137 on: December 04, 2016, 08:28 AM »
Maybe a square on the cut scaffold board could show how square the P1cc cuts,
Those are long gone, I'm afraid. They were cut as a favour for one of our scaffolders (hence the scaffolding board). They did roll across the top of a relatively flat workbench in a straight line, too. I will try to make some similar cuts this week and show how square the P1cc can cut - probably scaffolding board or softwood because we are still in that phase of this project
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Online antss

  • Posts: 1378
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #138 on: December 04, 2016, 10:39 AM »
Yes, Fein invented the multi tool and held patents freezing out competitors til about 2010. 

No, slight changes don't circumvent a patent. What would be the point of a patent then ?

Fein still enjoys the perch, but others are climbing the tree.  Which is good. Fein's tool remained relatively unchanged for the life of the patent getting only minor cosmetic and power refinements for the first thirty years.
In the last 7-8 we've seen them introduce no less than 4 different models, develop two quick blade change systems, significantly boost power and blade arc, add dust collection, design a plunge mechanism and depth stop, introduce a cordless version, and a model with isolated motor / vibration damping chassis.  All while still managing to make a tool in an EU country that lasts decades in a professional environment.  Price has gone down too.  The new competition has also built a new market for blades that these machines use. 

I doubt Mafell's status is in jeopardy either.  It's pretty hard for a newcomer and risky for a lower established player to say to investors that they want to make the bestest, fastest, most expensive tricked out widget that will sell in low numbers , oh and there is already a competitor.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 10:51 AM by antss »

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #139 on: December 04, 2016, 10:48 AM »
Maybe a square on the cut scaffold board could show how square the P1cc cuts,
Those are long gone, I'm afraid. They were cut as a favour for one of our scaffolders (hence the scaffolding board). They did roll across the top of a relatively flat workbench in a straight line, too. I will try to make some similar cuts this week and show how square the P1cc can cut - probably scaffolding board or softwood because we are still in that phase of this project

Appreciate the consideration!

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 93
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #140 on: December 04, 2016, 01:40 PM »
Yes, Fein invented the multi tool and held patents freezing out competitors til about 2010.
And it looks like they, in conjunction with Bosch, are doing it again. Since March this year all new Fein and Bosch multitools available in the UK have been supplied with the StarLock system tool mounting. To date StarLock tooling (a patented design) is only available from those two manufacturers and the new tools won't use the older tooling, so if you buy a new tool you are locked into the more expensive blades fom Fein and Bosch. Maybe not much of a problem if you are using a few blades a year but on the current project we've got 4 or 5 trades using a dozen or more multitools so it very soon adds up. I'm currently using 4 to 6 blades a month at the moment as are two other carpenters. We've already sent back one  new Fein Multimaster and requested an older/different model from the dealer (ended up with an new old-stock Bosch GOP). I don't see us being alone doing that.
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Online antss

  • Posts: 1378
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #141 on: December 04, 2016, 04:05 PM »
Yes, those two did announce a new ,cough, partnership for StarLoc.  Was announced earlier this spring.

There are some performance gains as well as practical aspects like not being able to use certain blades on lower powered tools, so it's not a total money grab. 

Though you can bet that was considered.

In fairness, Bosch makes some darn good blades.  Every independent test I've seen confirms this and if you factor in longevity vs. price against other blades they often end up being cheaper measured on a per cut basis.  For what I do, the Fein blades work better/longer than the Bosch , so it really depends on what YOU are cutting.  I've also used the chingchongchnag eBay blades as well as the dremel and cheapo blades from Harbor Freight. I think their diamond and carbide offerings are better than the Fein stuff - but I'm not using them day in and out at a stone fabrication shop, so will never wear one out.  Making the price of a premimum one not very compelling to me. 

It's like any other tooling really, you can get something that cuts for 10quid or a 100 and many in between. They all cut, but some represent better value for the money.

Offline Alec Buscemi

  • Posts: 29
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #142 on: December 04, 2016, 05:28 PM »
@Holmz innovation is more important than competition.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3995
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #143 on: December 04, 2016, 06:17 PM »
No idea.
I thought when you changed the design slightly  then patents don't stand?

Did fein have a patent   for the multitool?
Was glad to see  them knocked of their perch with that tool. Only a matter of time before mafell is too.

Fein, Festool, Bosch, Metabo  and  Mafell. All made in   Germany afaik.

Whether you are glad to see them knocked off their perch or not. The saw is revolutionary in the pendulum action. So I do not think that the perch is in any danger.

It is not like the saw is only marketed good, it is actually a danged good good saw.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #144 on: December 04, 2016, 06:22 PM »
I see the potential for this thread to go personal so I will jump it and add:

"Let's not make this personal.  We are only talking about tools."

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3995
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #145 on: December 04, 2016, 06:34 PM »
Thanks, but I have not been personally offended yet @Peter Halle .

@Alec Buscemi  to be sure, Innovation is good. Putting an LED strobe and D handle on it are not the same "innovative" as the pendulum mechanism and blade clamp mechanism.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #146 on: December 04, 2016, 06:52 PM »
Thanks, but I have not been personally offended yet @Peter Halle .

@Alec Buscemi  to be sure, Innovation is good. Putting an LED strobe and D handle on it are not the same "innovative" as the pendulum mechanism and blade clamp mechanism.

Thank you for your notice.  I worry about the entire community at whole and also those outside the community who read posts.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Alec Buscemi

  • Posts: 29
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #147 on: December 04, 2016, 06:55 PM »
Not sure about your post @Holmz. Perhaps you can link it logically to your comment about competition being good for the consumer and to my reply that innovation is more important.

Online McNally Family

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #148 on: December 04, 2016, 06:57 PM »
@dovetail wrote; "The Mafell may cut deep and square, that's great, but the Bosch is near as good and for the majority of everything else(actually everything else), in my hand the Bosch is king".


Never heard of a tool being described as superior, by calling it "near as good", as it's competitor.

Bosch is a good jigsaw.  Heck, they essentially owned the category for years (my first jigsaw was a Bosch "D" handled version).  But for me, superior engineering is like tool porn, and in this category, IMO, Mafell wears the crown.

Perhaps someday Mafell will bring this model back;

http://www.toolstop.co.uk/mafell-stab65e-900w-oscillating-jigsaw-with-built-in-light-p5787
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 07:17 PM by McNally Family »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: A new sander by Christmas |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3615
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #149 on: December 04, 2016, 09:48 PM »
Competition and innovation are both good...competition without innovation would mean we would still be driving around in Model T's, innovation without competition would mean we would still be trying to afford a Mercedes...the original automobile.