Author Topic: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw  (Read 81292 times)

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Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« on: June 18, 2013, 11:05 AM »
I just got the saw yesterday so I only have a few photos to share as a primer  [big grin]. I'll have a chance to put it to through some tests over the next few weeks and add more info as I go.









fshanno asked about using the Cunex W1 blade in other jigsaws. Here's a closeup of the t-shank on the W1 blade.



It doesn't look like this would be practical to adapt.
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2318
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 12:06 PM »
Woodie,

I am very much looking forward to your review.  Would love to see how this saw does with standard blades too and if they are all 90 degree or if there is deflection.  I am really pleased with my new Trion and have spot on 90 degree cuts with different blades in different materials.  The Mafell has always intrigued me, though...also the parallel guide seems so well thought out. 

Scot

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1555
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 02:53 PM »
Really jealous!

Offline epicxt

  • Posts: 408
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 08:36 PM »
Very nice! Can you run it on a Festool rail? Am looking forward to hearing your reports on this saw!
n = number of Festools I've got.  (n + 1) = Festools I want

Offline Jalvis

  • Posts: 348
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 01:03 AM »
German perfection!


Offline JoggleStick

  • Posts: 152
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 02:16 AM »
Mhea... I don't see what all the fuss is about...
For starters, if it doesn't take the Collins Coping Foot- you can keep it...
And I dunno- I see the virtues of a jig saw and parallel guide to be sorta opposing forces, if you get my drift...
One is primarily for cutting curves, the other primarily straight lines....

But hey I don't mean to rain on your parade... It's a very very nice looking saw...

I just don't get what all the fuss is about.....
It's all in the fits!

Offline fuzzy logic

  • Posts: 336
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 04:38 AM »
Mmm.  Do I detect angst in your post?
Fear not - there is hope for you  [unsure]  [big grin]

Maybe all will be revealed as woodie (and others?) inform us of their experiences of the P1cc.
And, whether any (alleged) fuss is warranted.

Obviously being able to use the Coping Foot imperative for you - fair enough.
But the Foot doesn't fit lots of jig-saws, so your heads-up re' the Mafell helpful to those
who need to know that.

Similarly - ditto'ish re' comments about fence.

Don't think raining on anyone's parade to be honest.

I, for one, am looking forward to what others think about a jig-saw that
has a good reputation.

Richard


Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 05:33 AM »
Jigsaw reputation ... maybe ok

Company "Mafell" as having any interest in providing products or service in Australia ... toilet !

I judge a product by more than it's technical attributes, that's why I have massive respect for Festool. Based on my interactions, I hope you're happy with the Mafell and I hope it doesn't fail on you.

Offline JoggleStick

  • Posts: 152
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2013, 05:46 AM »
Fuzzy logic.... Yes that says it all...
What a tool....
It's all in the fits!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2013, 05:55 AM »
Fuzzy logic.... Yes that says it all...
What a tool....

I love a good subtext, just like I love a good whisky  [wink]

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2013, 01:35 PM »
Woodie,

I am very much looking forward to your review.  Would love to see how this saw does with standard blades too and if they are all 90 degree or if there is deflection.  I am really pleased with my new Trion and have spot on 90 degree cuts with different blades in different materials.  The Mafell has always intrigued me, though...also the parallel guide seems so well thought out. 

Scot

I'm more interested in how it performs with standard t-shank blades as well.  Though it's nice having Mafell's W1 blade as an option.


Very nice! Can you run it on a Festool rail? Am looking forward to hearing your reports on this saw!

I just tried this out this morning and found two ways the Festool guide rail can be used.  The rail doesn't wind up being used as a "captive" guide but works as a straight edge.  I mention that because I believe the Carvex/Trion guide base uses the raised profile on the rail like the TS55/75.

Option 1 -  Uses the included Parallel Edge Guide.  With the guide in the position shown below it allows the saw base to lay flat against the work surface and the edge guide to lay flat against the guide rail. 



Option 2 - The base of the saw has machined flats that run parallel to the blade on both sides. These can be used to guide the saw against the back side of the guide rail.






Mhea... I don't see what all the fuss is about...
For starters, if it doesn't take the Collins Coping Foot- you can keep it...
And I dunno- I see the virtues of a jig saw and parallel guide to be sorta opposing forces, if you get my drift...
One is primarily for cutting curves, the other primarily straight lines....

But hey I don't mean to rain on your parade... It's a very very nice looking saw...

I just don't get what all the fuss is about.....

I have no intention of coping with a Jigsaw, but as fuzzy logic said that may be good for others to know. 

As to cutting straight lines with a jig saw versus curves? I definitely don't see myself ripping 4x8 sheets of ply with it, I think I'd much prefer using my TS75.  Though having said that, I've used a jigsaw many times to cut straight lines...


Jigsaw reputation ... maybe ok

Company "Mafell" as having any interest in providing products or service in Australia ... toilet !

I judge a product by more than it's technical attributes, that's why I have massive respect for Festool. Based on my interactions, I hope you're happy with the Mafell and I hope it doesn't fail on you.

So far my experience with the Mafell dealer has been exceptional as have my dealings with various Festool dealers (with the exception of my local brick and mortar outlet).  I'm not posting my experience with this saw to spite Festool and I hope no one has taken it that way?  There just isn't a great deal of info on the web regarding the P1cc, particularly from end users.  I merely thought others would appreciate the added perspective.
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2013, 03:00 PM »
Is there only one Mafell dealer in the US?
+1

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2013, 06:50 PM »
Is there only one Mafell dealer in the US?

Oops, I meant to answer that in the other thread and forgot. Yes I think there is only one US dealer, Timberwolf Tools in Maine.  As I understand it they've been a Mafell dealer for 26 years.

Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1555
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 07:01 PM »
Timberwolf have recently took over north american distribution and have the market for the time being. Hopefully Canada regains a dealer that's a fraction as good as our previous one. I'm stocked on mafell gear for now but there's so much more I want. I like that you can run the bladed backwards on this puppy for more support when using the saw beneath the stock. Not to mention the 1 million other cool tweaks on this guy. Can't wait for a full review.

Offline alik

  • Posts: 23
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2013, 03:51 PM »
Congratulation! MAFELL P1 OPERATION]http://www.mafel.lwebtv[url=http://www.mafellwebtv.com]MAFELL P1 OPERATION[/url] It is a great jigsaw.I have one too.The cuprex motor its very strong.You will see the difference when cutting hardwoods. ;D

Offline fuzzy logic

  • Posts: 336
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2013, 05:52 AM »
Try this link (as link given came up not recognised.)

http://www.mafell.de/webtv_en/

Richard
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline Jalvis

  • Posts: 348
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 12:21 PM »
If the P1cc is like any of the other Mafell tools then its well worth the money.  I have no regrets with any of my Mafell tools. 

Festool makes great products but they are not the only German company setting the standard for the industry. 

I understand not everyone will see the value in some tools.  Some of my Family, Friends, and Clients are astonished by the cost of equipment and think I'm crazy.  What they dont know is Festool is just the stepping point since thats all they see.  Walk into a well equipped shop and there will be Felder, Altendorf, Martin, Streibig, Hoffmann.....Line borers, sliding Saws, Shapers, Air clamps, Wide belt sanders.  You wont see me get too worked up comparing jigsaws when just a portion of my stationary tools could buy the entire Festool line.  If a tool under a 1K scares you then your not ready to build a shop.

As for the coping foot: Most guys a I know who use the coping foot have one attached to a jigsaw permanently for that purpose while another jigsaw is available for other tasks.  Its like routers......easier to have lots of routers set permanently with bits rather than change setups constantly. 

Offline fuzzy logic

  • Posts: 336
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2013, 03:58 PM »
+1

Have 3 jigsaws.
!x with Foot + 1x battery & 1x mains (these two are DeWalts, which have given
good service, but getting very tired.)

My interest in the P1cc is that (including optional tilting base) all fits neatly into
one Systainer; although would want T-Loc (love that, when stacked, can tilt them, to get into
one half way down.)
Seems convenient and versatile - with, for sure, some innovative design features.

Look forward to Woodie giving thoughts re' 'squareness' of cuts,
dust collection, and, the blade attachment mechanism - etc, etc.

I suppose durability is an unknown - but, Mafell seem to know what they're about.
And, as quite a few companies do now, comes with 3-year warranty.

Richard
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline JoggleStick

  • Posts: 152
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 02:34 AM »
Hey @Jalvis,

I really laughed out loud when I read your post- it tickled my fancy, so to speak.

Well while we all wait patiently for @woodie to get some 'tool time' up so he can give us a report, I read with interest that you've been happy with your Mafell tools...

Care to share your experience?.....

Oh and BTW I have at least a half doz. jigsaws of various colours in the vans and shop, but only one with a coping foot... And it's very well used.... And it never comes off... And I've never cut a coping cut with it either.....  :grin. :clue... Think rolling bevels and you'll get the drift....
It's all in the fits!

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 295
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 06:42 AM »
First off, I must confess, I find myself becoming somewhat of a Mafell fan after replacing my TS55 & Carvex with the MT55 & P1cc. But this is my honest opinion on it.

The only negative things I have to say about it are:
1st, there's very little information available.
2nd, there's no dust collection capability when using the tilting baseplate.
3rd, there's no LED light on it.
4th, Mafell doesn't have plug-it leads on their tools. :)
5th, it's expensive.

When it comes to build quality, power, cut quality, dust extraction & all round performance, I much prefer it to the Carvex 400 it replaced.
In the end it's still just an (expensive) jigsaw though, but I must say it's the best I've used up till now.

For what it's worth, I find that in general (there's always exceptions), Festool is ideal to work with and more suited to a shop enviornment. I'm not saying there not suited for the jobsite. I mean compared to eachother.
Everything complements and works nicely together and there's tons of accessories available for just about every tool. And there's dealers everywhere when you need something.

Mafell mostly caters to a different market than Festool. There's very little info, not many dealers and they have less but more specialty tools. Their KSS saw line-up for example can be a huge time savings compared to going back and forth to the miter saw (depending on the work you do of course).
I do find them nicer to work with on a job site, out on location. They've always got more power, feel more resistant to wear & tear and they pack the accessories more compact into a single systainer with the tool. It gets done faster with Mafell.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 09:32 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline Jalvis

  • Posts: 348
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2013, 09:35 AM »
Hey @Jalvis,

I really laughed out loud when I read your post- it tickled my fancy, so to speak.

Well while we all wait patiently for @woodie to get some 'tool time' up so he can give us a report, I read with interest that you've been happy with your Mafell tools...

Care to share your experience?.....

Oh and BTW I have at least a half doz. jigsaws of various colours in the vans and shop, but only one with a coping foot... And it's very well used.... And it never comes off... And I've never cut a coping cut with it either.....  :grin. :clue... Think rolling bevels and you'll get the drift....

I didn't intend to be humorous but if you had a good laugh all is well.

Mafell is a 'no frills' kind of company and it shows in there catalog, website, and dealers.  Basically if you cant see the value simply by looking than you're not the target audience.  The tool line is industrial quality and intended to be used repetitively. 

Little things make big differences for me as a worker.  For example the MT55 has an amazing blade change function.  The entire side swings open and locks the blade making changes very fast and safe for you and the tool.  I also think the F style rails are far better than Festool rails.  Mafell rails have a quick connect system that stays on the rail and has perfect alignment in seconds.  I dont hesitate to add a rail for a single cut since it only takes a moment.  Those two functions alone are enough for me to buy the Mafell but there are more.  In the end I'm someone that needs functions to be simple and easy to use otherwise I will not integrate those options into my daily work.

I will elaborate more but Its time to get to work.  Fun to TALK about tools; more fun to USE tools.

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2013, 11:46 PM »
So far I’m really impressed!

I’ve had a chance to make cuts in 3/4 MDO, 3/4 Apple Ply (similar to Baltic Birch), 7/8 thick Poplar and a 20mm Ikea desktop.  I’ve just been using various Bosch blades I had on hand.  As I mentioned earlier, I was really curious to see how well standard t-shank blades work.  So far every cut I’ve made has been perfectly square.  I’m still a little shocked that this can be done without blade guides?  Even in similar materials, I never achieved such consistent results with my previous saw (Bosch 1590EVS).

Dust collection is great.  The 27mm hose end fits Mafell’s dust extraction fitting, but it is a snug fit.  Although the front of the saw is open nearly all the dust was captured (on the top side of the work surface).  The built in blower also works really well, when not using an extractor, keeping the cut line totally clear.

The splinter guard is worth mention as well.  I’ve always found it difficult to follow a cut line with a splinter guard.  Mafell’s has a black line formed in the plastic that nearly extends to the blade.  The line is biased to one side making it easier to keep the blade against a pencil line instead of on it.



Next up will be some cuts in thicker materials.  I’m going to try and capture these cuts on camera with clear views of the results against a square.
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 295
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2013, 01:52 AM »
Woodie, I'm glad to hear you like what you see so far :) I was a bit worried about the results using it with standard blades. (I personally only use the Cunix blades)
Looking forward to that video and the negatives once the honeymoon phase wears off.

Have you noticed the pendular action? I thought it was quite special. It doesn't come in, until you actually press up to the workpiece. With most saws, the rear roller pushes the blade forward. With this saw the entire head makes the pendular movement. A lot of the precision is achieved right there I think.

As to the dust collection, it's actually quite clever what they did. The saw doesn't just blow the dust "away".
There are 2 channels inside the baseplate. One on the left and one on the right. By blowing air from the motor through the left channel, a venturi (sort of suction) effect is created in the right channel.
So in short, the motor blows air through the left channel across the blade into the right channel where it actually sucks in the dust.
That's what makes the dust extraction so efficient. You can even see a little dust collection without a vacuum attached. (you can test this out with the additional dust shroud thingy and flip it upside down)

As a bonus the blade gets some cooling. That, in combination with the lack of guide brackets or rear roller results in the blades not heating up much and lasting A LOT longer.

There's a lot to be discovered and liked about this tool. I think you'll get many fun years of good use out of it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 06:23 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2318
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2013, 01:11 PM »
Looking forward to seeing some video clips of this saw in action and the resulting cuts.  Thanks for the info and reviews so far!

Scot

Offline GregBradley

  • Posts: 192
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2013, 09:22 AM »
Between the info jonathan-m sent me in a message a few months ago, and woodie's info here comparing it to his Bosch 1590 using Bosch blades, I can see a P1cc coming my way.

Let's see, if I sell my Trion and four 1590s, I can get the one P1cc as long as I don't need any attachments.

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2013, 05:38 PM »
Woodie, I'm glad to hear you like what you see so far :) I was a bit worried about the results using it with standard blades. (I personally only use the Cunix blades)
Looking forward to that video and the negatives once the honeymoon phase wears off.

Have you noticed the pendular action? I thought it was quite special. It doesn't come in, until you actually press up to the workpiece. With most saws, the rear roller pushes the blade forward. With this saw the entire head makes the pendular movement. A lot of the precision is achieved right there I think.

I got a chuckle from the "honeymoon phase" comment. I suppose there may be some truth to that  [big grin].

Great points on the orbital action and dust collection too! 


Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2013, 05:45 PM »
Between the info jonathan-m sent me in a message a few months ago, and woodie's info here comparing it to his Bosch 1590 using Bosch blades, I can see a P1cc coming my way.

Let's see, if I sell my Trion and four 1590s, I can get the one P1cc as long as I don't need any attachments.

Thankfully the angle base is the only optional attachment.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 05:50 PM by woodie »
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 295
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2013, 04:49 AM »
GregBradlley,
I'm not sure I'd get rid of all of them just to buy 1 new one. Unless I'm absolutely no longer satisfied their performance or condition...
The P1cc is a good tool, but it's not like the rest have suddenly become junk.
Anyway, if you do decide to get one, I'd like to hear your impressions though.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 04:54 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline Cane94

  • Posts: 2
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2013, 05:46 PM »
I sent back the festool trion jig saw after reading multiple reviews where it sounded like the product was not much different than your run of the mill jigsaw. 3 way guide mechanism, blade guide, etc... I love my festool Sanders and would not trade for anything, but the jigsaw was disappointing. So I took the plunge and bought the mafell p1cc.

Incredible product. I cut intricate corbels in 4" white oak planks and it was like using a bandsaw. Easy blade install, powerful motor, clear line, blade never got dull...worth every penny!

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2013, 12:22 AM »
This thread has me second guessing my Festool commitment. I have sold my Trion ps300 and pre-ordered the Carvex, but i'm so conflicted right now. Found this video on YouTube.

Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 295
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2013, 12:32 AM »
elimelech12, here's another video that gives a bit more info about the mechanics of the machine.


« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 12:42 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2013, 02:48 AM »
 [eek]Wow that is impressive! The carvex design looks strangely similar.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 295
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2013, 04:24 AM »


Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2013, 07:09 AM »
One of my favorite P1cc clips.  The P1cc portion starts at 3:10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnGEveZmG0U&feature=youtu.be&t=3m10s
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 03:17 PM by woodie »
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2013, 09:27 AM »
Very interested in this saw but am wondering about the compatibility with Festool guide rails. Can any owners comment on that?
+1

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2013, 09:33 AM »
Same here.  Brand loyalty doesn't mean anything to me.

I bought a Bosch jigsaw a few years back, when I read the Trion shortcomings.  I thought the Carvex will be a superior jigsaw, reading some posts from our European friends is not.

I decided to stop the pre-order and I will order the P1cc.  My TS55 EQ will be in Ebay pretty soon and I will get the MT55.

I have already a mix of brands, I will buy what makes sense for me.  

Check this same post, there are some pictures using the festool rails.  The MT55 can also use the rails.
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Steve Hiscocks

  • Posts: 11
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2013, 10:23 AM »
I agree, i got the carvex when it first came out in the uk. It went back to festool a couple of times! Never could get it to cut nice and the blade release lever kept falling off.  Then my dealer took Mafell on and let me trade the Carvex in for the P1cc. Far better saw.
Kapax120, cxs, of1400, of1010, ct22, rotex150, domino, c15, carvex, psb300, Ets150, ts55, Tdk15.6, Ti15, Cdd12, ro90 plus lots of bits.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2013, 10:30 AM »
Mafell needs a broader dealer network in the US, if there is a repair needed does it go back to EU?
+1

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2013, 10:38 AM »
Until yesterday I had only heard about Mafell. After researching I could find only great reviews about the tool, but not much on the company or, as mentioned above, service. Makes me question Festool's claim on their jigsaw website about being "the best" jigsaw. There is no comparison showing Mafell although the usual suspects (dewalt, Bosch, etc.) are mentioned.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2013, 03:10 PM »
Very interested in this saw but am wondering about the compatibility with Festool guide rails. Can any owners comment on that?

I shot this yesterday morning. Be forewarned I'm a total noob at videos...

« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 03:15 PM by woodie »
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2013, 03:32 PM »
Mafell needs a broader dealer network in the US, if there is a repair needed does it go back to EU?

I do agree on this one.  The guys at Timberwolf Tools are great to deal with but having a few locations spread out across the US would certainly help with shipping times.  It's only 3 days for FedEx ground from Maine to me, but California would be 5 days.  As for service, I'm not sure where the tool goes.  I did ask the question when I bought my jigsaw but the only part of the response I remember was "we've never had a P1cc in for service."  I laughed and asked if it was because I was only the second guy to buy one [wink].
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 03:37 PM by woodie »
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2013, 04:29 PM »
Thank you very much woodie for the video, it clearly showed me my options with the Festool rails which is exactly what I needed, and was about how I was guessing it would work.
+1

Offline Jalvis

  • Posts: 348
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2013, 11:02 AM »
Thats a good video.

Supposedly the Jigsaw and MT 55 are some of there most popular tools sold in the USA.  I'm not surprised considering there also some of the least expensive!

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2013, 11:15 AM »
How long is the warranty for the mafell?
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Jalvis

  • Posts: 348
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2013, 11:28 AM »
Three years.  Although I've heard that the USA dealer has extended the warranty period for Timber Frame equipment, but I think it depends on the problem.

http://www.mafell.de/en/service/extra-services.html

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2013, 12:52 PM »
Bro I am so torn between the Carvex, which I have not yet tried and the Mafell which has nothing but excellent reviews. Other than in these threads mentioning it is almost blasphemy.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2013, 12:58 PM »
Also, can anyone tell me what comes standard with the p1cc
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2013, 01:09 PM »
Standard Equipment
•    MaxiMax carrying case
•    3 jigsaw blades, CUnex W1, W2, W+P2
•    Base plate for 90° cuts
•    Hose connector
•    Chip deflector
•    Splinter guard
•    Parallel fence
•    Main Cable 4m (13.1 ft)



the only extras are: more blades, tilting plate and more splinter guard.

   this video shows the standard equipment.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 01:21 PM by fidelfs »
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2013, 01:58 PM »
I called timberwolf and I think I am pretty convinced on the p1cc. The only thing holding me back now is the total of $799 for saw and tilting base. So far the Carvex is costing me $565 with accessory kit, but I guess I can return prior to 30 days. I think I'll give the Carvex a try being I preordered and I really like my dealer, but I cannot honestly see how festool can make a claim to being the best jigsaw without comparing it with what has already been considered the best for a few years. I like the ability to tilt and make bevel cuts using the guide rail.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2013, 02:13 PM »
I called timberwolf and I think I am pretty convinced on the p1cc. The only thing holding me back now is the total of $799 for saw and tilting base. So far the Carvex is costing me $565 with accessory kit, but I guess I can return prior to 30 days. I think I'll give the Carvex a try being I preordered and I really like my dealer, but I cannot honestly see how festool can make a claim to being the best jigsaw without comparing it with what has already been considered the best for a few years. I like the ability to tilt and make bevel cuts using the guide rail.

I wouldn't get hung up regarding the "best" marketing spin, what is best is the tool that best meets your needs, but I agree that absent a real world comparison that includes the Mafell the comparisons are left wanting. I too am torn between these two jigsaws, for now I can wait a while longer until these two are put head to head.
+1

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2013, 02:16 PM »
I called timberwolf and I think I am pretty convinced on the p1cc. The only thing holding me back now is the total of $799 for saw and tilting base. So far the Carvex is costing me $565 with accessory kit, but I guess I can return prior to 30 days. I think I'll give the Carvex a try being I preordered and I really like my dealer, but I cannot honestly see how festool can make a claim to being the best jigsaw without comparing it with what has already been considered the best for a few years. I like the ability to tilt and make bevel cuts using the guide rail.

I wouldn't get hung up regarding the "best" marketing spin, what is best is the tool that best meets your needs, but I agree that absent a real world comparison that includes the Mafell the comparisons are left wanting. I too am torn between these two jigsaws, for now I can wait a while longer until these two are put head to head.


Ultimately that's what I'll do but I'll test run the Carvex for 29 days and who knows I might like it
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2013, 04:25 PM »
The Mafell tilting base is quite the investment, though in my opinion it has three advantages over the upcoming Festool base.
1 - It's designed to work on a guide rail.
2 - You have almost twice the surface area of the standard Mafell base making contact with your workpiece. This lets you focus on the cutline, not balancing the saw.
3 - It's easy to set the saw to a specific angle. There are even two detents, one at 22.5˚ and one at 45˚.



« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 04:33 PM by woodie »
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 295
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2013, 03:28 AM »
I don't know how it works with Timberwolf, but over here in the EU you can also test Mafell tools totally free of charge. If so, you could easily do some head to head tests yourself.

The biggest problem with these tests is that there's always going to be someone to discredit it in some way or another. Saying the setup isn't correct, bad tool manipulation, calling it biased on brand loyalty, whatnot, ... The only true measure is using both tools yourself and deciding what works best for you. In the end it's all about personal prefrence.

I also think you shouldn't be influenced by the big marketing pushes. Every manufacturer will claim their stuff is the best & greatest. Take a look at which components and mechanisms are actually completely new or have changed compared to the previous models and if that engineering is better than the other offerings out there.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 07:43 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2013, 08:11 AM »
I don't know how it works with Timberwolf, but over here in the EU you can also test Mafell tools totally free of charge. If so, you could easily do some head to head tests yourself.

I'd love that, how does that work in the EU, do you do the testing in the store or somehow they loan it to you? Here in the US there is only one dealer of Mafell with one store in Maine (over 3,000 miles away) and their return policy is 30 days for unused tools only, makes things kinda difficult.
+1

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 295
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2013, 08:34 AM »
Over here in the EU you can simply download a simple form like this one
Mafell & said dealer then arrange for the tool to be sent to you for 30 days. At the end of the 30 day trial you buy it or you send it back.

In you situation however, I think your best bet is to simply place a phone call to timberwolf tools & ask them about it.
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2013, 08:53 AM »
I did call him, but he refuse to do it.  We will need more Mafell dealers in USA.

I guess if there is a real interest to the tools then some new dealers will step up, if they see a potential.  I wish I had the money to start that.

I will try to write directly to Mafell and explain that we need something similar that EU.

There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2013, 09:00 AM »
I did call him, but he refuse to do it.  We will need more Mafell dealers in USA.

I guess if there is a real interest to the tools then some new dealers will step up, if they see a potential.  I wish I had the money to start that.

I will try to write directly to Mafell and explain that we need something similar that EU.


It's possible Timberwolf has exclusive distribution for the whole US/N. America market.
+1

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2013, 09:23 AM »
I just sent a message to Mafell and see what happen.  I have nothing against Timberwolf tools, but I think he is making a disservice to the customers and his own company, not given the same as the EU dealers.

I understand it is up to each dealer, but I would do it if I was on the business and this will help me penetrate the USA market.
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2013, 10:09 AM »
I just sent a message to Mafell and see what happen.  I have nothing against Timberwolf tools, but I think he is making a disservice to the customers and his own company, not given the same as the EU dealers.

I understand it is up to each dealer, but I would do it if I was on the business and this will help me penetrate the USA market.

Good luck - their tools may be ok, but as an organisation I found them lacking in manners and very objectionable in attitude!

Offline Tom Bellemare

  • Inactive Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5148
  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
    • Tool Home LLC
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2013, 10:33 AM »
I did call him, but he refuse to do it.  We will need more Mafell dealers in USA.

I guess if there is a real interest to the tools then some new dealers will step up, if they see a potential.  I wish I had the money to start that.

I will try to write directly to Mafell and explain that we need something similar that EU.


It's possible Timberwolf has exclusive distribution for the whole US/N. America market.


They do.


Tom
Tom Bellemare
Customer Svc
Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Offline Tom Bellemare

  • Inactive Member
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  • Posts: 5148
  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
    • Tool Home LLC
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2013, 10:34 AM »
I think the warranty in NA is 1 year also... I'm not certain.


Tom
Tom Bellemare
Customer Svc
Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline JoggleStick

  • Posts: 152
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2013, 10:48 AM »


It's possible Timberwolf has exclusive distribution for the whole US/N. America market.


They do.


Tom

It seems they have US/ all of NA and pretty close to the whole rest of the World outside EU...

Some web sites claim they are the authorised supplier for us Downunder folk too....

With freight we are pushing $1k for a hand held Jigsaw : eek : EEK!

That's definitely pushing the friendship and then you've got to think about rails and...
Btw... Anyone want to trust shipping rails round the world and back?
It's all in the fits!

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2013, 10:56 AM »
I did call him, but he refuse to do it.  We will need more Mafell dealers in USA.

I guess if there is a real interest to the tools then some new dealers will step up, if they see a potential.  I wish I had the money to start that.

I will try to write directly to Mafell and explain that we need something similar that EU.


It's possible Timberwolf has exclusive distribution for the whole US/N. America market.


They do.


Tom

That's a big limiting factor for me
+1

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2013, 11:00 AM »
I just sent a message to Mafell and see what happen.  I have nothing against Timberwolf tools, but I think he is making a disservice to the customers and his own company, not given the same as the EU dealers.

I understand it is up to each dealer, but I would do it if I was on the business and this will help me penetrate the USA market.

Good luck - their tools may be ok, but as an organisation I found them lacking in manners and very objectionable in attitude!


I guess customer service can make all the difference. Maybe the reason we are all on the FOG
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2013, 11:04 AM »
JoggleStick,

You might use this contact form http://www.mafell.de/en/metanavi/contact/contact-form.html

I was thinking to try this rails http://www.toolstop.co.uk/bosch-fsn-plungs-saw-guide-rail-kit-including-fsn-1600-x-2-fsn-bag-fsn-vel-p62216

They are willing to send to USA.  They are identical to the Mafell.
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2013, 11:05 AM »
I guess customer service can make all the difference. Maybe the reason we are all on the FOG

You are 100% right on that one. 
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2013, 12:30 PM »
I guess customer service can make all the difference. Maybe the reason we are all on the FOG

You are 100% right on that one.  

I have to say Timberwolf has been exceptional at customer service with me. David at Timberwolf spent a fair amount of time on the phone discussing the P1cc and KSS80Ec tracksaw with me before I committed to purchasing. I never felt rushed to get off the phone with him and if there was a question on either he couldn't answer he'd just put me on hold to grab their demo unit or put a call into Mafell Germany. As I said before, I agree it would be ideal if there were a few more dealers spread across the US but I wouldn't discredit only having one, especially if they're as good to deal with as Timberwolf has been.



Good luck - their tools may be ok, but as an organisation I found them lacking in manners and very objectionable in attitude!


Kev I'm sorry you had a bad experience with an individual at Mafell but that doesn't make them a bad company... and if you had a chance to use some of their tools I'm sure you'd think otherwise.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:35 PM by woodie »
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2013, 07:04 PM »


It's possible Timberwolf has exclusive distribution for the whole US/N. America market.


They do.


Tom

It seems they have US/ all of NA and pretty close to the whole rest of the World outside EU...

Some web sites claim they are the authorised supplier for us Downunder folk too....

With freight we are pushing $1k for a hand held Jigsaw : eek : EEK!

That's definitely pushing the friendship and then you've got to think about rails and...
Btw... Anyone want to trust shipping rails round the world and back?

Yeh - it's a joke. I tried talking with Mafell too - a very unfriendly experience. Australia doesn't exist as far as Mafell HO is concerned !

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2013, 06:12 PM »
Now that the Carvex is out, I'm glad I didn't get one. For the time being I repurchased the Trion PS300 and will be saving up for the Mafell. How can a woodworker have a "jigsaw" that will not scribe? It's beyond me.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Online Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 10776
  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2013, 07:54 PM »
Hope you enjoy your Mafell!

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2013, 08:03 PM »
Hope you enjoy your Mafell!

Peter

I don't have one yet. Probably won't for a while but I'm gonna save up for it. I don't have to funds to just drop all that money at once. But if and when I do, I will!
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2013, 01:28 AM »
First I am not a festool hater. Look at my signature. Found this while searching online. The Mafell came out on top overall. Festool came in strong second.

Jigsaw review

http://www.bannedlink.com/document/24eb8e20-cef1-426d-8f0c-034a447c49e9/
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 01:54 AM by elimelech12 »
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #72 on: September 04, 2013, 01:32 AM »
First I am not a festool hater. Look at my signature. Found this while searching online. The Mafell came out on top overall. Festool came in strong second.

Jigsaw review

Link doesn't work for some reason
+1

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #73 on: September 04, 2013, 01:55 AM »
Every time I go to post the link it comes up banned for some reason
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline woodie

  • Posts: 314
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2013, 01:57 AM »
First I am not a festool hater. Look at my signature. Found this while searching online. The Mafell came out on top overall. Festool came in strong second.

Jigsaw review

Link doesn't work for some reason

If it was a link to the gereedshappro video that user and his videos have been banned from FOG.
Green - MFT/3, FS 1080/2, FS 1400/2-LR32, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, Parallel Guide Set, CT 26E, CT MIDI, OF1400 EQ, LR32 Drilling Set, MFS 400 Set, MFS 700 Set, Domino DF700 Set, Domino DF500Q Set, C12 NiMH Set, T18+3 Set, 2011 Centrotec Set, RO150 FEQ, RTS400 EQ, LS130 EQ, Planex LHS225, and various accessories

Red - KSS80 EC/370, MT55cc, P1cc, F160, F110 and Aerofix Guide Rails.

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #75 on: September 04, 2013, 02:07 AM »
First I am not a festool hater. Look at my signature. Found this while searching online. The Mafell came out on top overall. Festool came in strong second.

Jigsaw review

Link doesn't work for some reason

If it was a link to the gereedshappro video that user and his videos have been banned from FOG.

Really? Why? This was a 14 page article comparing a bunch of jigsaws.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 295
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2013, 04:15 AM »
I hope I don't get into trouble posting this, as this might be kind of a touchy subject. If so please feel free to moderate or remove the post.

Here's what I know on the matter:
The respective dealer has a history with Festool. He used to be a Festool dealer. But he sold them with discounts and his dealership was revoked.
Ever since he's apparently been in "negotiations" to get his Festool dealership back but it's pretty safe to say the relationship both parties have with eachoter isn't the best. As of late I've noticed he's again offering more and more Festool products though I don't think they come from Festool directly. In the meantime though he has also picked up Mafell which has now become his main brand.

The reviews he organized has been deemed biased by the moderators of this forum because he also carries Mafell and has done several tests comparing the brand, mainly to Festool. It's believed by some on the FOG he just wants to discredit Festool & promote Mafell. Therefore the ban.

So far for the general info. As for the man himself, on a personal note, since the start of the whole "thing" on the FOG I decided to check it out for myself as he's located in the Netherlands and I'm from Belgium.
I've e-mailed him a few of times with questions regarding which tool he'd recommend for a certain job. Truth be said, his feedback has always seemed honest as his information not always points you to Mafell.

As for the rest of his business I was actually pretty amazed at how professional the man is. Each e-mail I sent got a reply within an hour. He organizes workshops and gives out free woodworking fair tickets to his customers. He has specially designed boxes made specifically for shipping systainers and each shipment is traceable over the entire journey and topped off with a call of delivery 15 mins before they ring your doorbell. Granted this is a feature of the shipping company but it speaks to his credit to choose that company over a cheaper one with less service.
In fact I'd say the kind service this guy provides is close in resemblance to the excellent service you people take for granted in the US, but is extremely rare around here. He also imports a lot of stuff from the US that's otherwise not readily available to us. He genuinely believes in only selling what he's personally convinced of being the best tools.
He is however not my go-to dealer, as he's often more expensive.

As far as the tests go, when he organizes a test, it's announced on the website and every customer can opt to partake in it. None of the tools used are sponsored. Tests are done extensively and thorough. I don't always agree with what tests they do and I would like to see more footage be made available.

In both big tests (plunge & jig saw) Mafell came out on top and he does lay it on rather tick.
It's pretty much universally accepted the MT55cc is better than the TS55r, but on the P1cc test it is indeed dubious the blade length doesn't exceed the length of the wood. So the blade melted and bent. This was heavily emphasized and it's generally assumed this was done on purpose to discredit the Carvex. Other then that the review is honest and actually conforms with my personal experiences as I used to own a Carvex 400 and P1cc.

Is it any wonder the Mafell tools won? I don't think so, as a single tool a Mafell is genereally a small step above Festool in engineering and build quality. Most consumers usually buy Festool in end however. They're a tad less expensive, have far more advertising exposure, a larger offering, more dealerships and a deeper integrated systems approach.

The fact there's an obvious focus on the shortcomings of Festool tools is dubious and unnecessary. As to whether or not the tests are biased and a ban is justified, is up to everyone to decide for themselves. All in all though, I give the guy the benefit of the doubt as my personal impressions & experiences with him have been pleasant and very positive.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 06:14 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #77 on: September 04, 2013, 07:55 AM »
It is obvious this is a company sponsored website, the company and the dealer have not relationship.

I honestly believe that is some true to the test they perform, You need to be objective to see thru the fog (not this FOG) of advertisement on internet and make your own conclusion.

I have not ever tested both machines, but I made my mind the one that I will buy and it is not the Carvex.

Festool has a great marketing machine, customer service varies by country (based in posting from users of this forum and others).  What I have found Festoll USA is the leader in customer satisfaction, some times there are a few problems. The brand loyalty to festool is the best, but that precludes an objective point of view.
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Online Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Let's Redux / Revive / Rewind / Rollback the FOG!
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #78 on: September 04, 2013, 08:42 AM »
In reply to jonathan-m's post,  the dealer mentioned was not banned for the test or his Festool dealer status.  The ban was for activity here prior to the other thread and failure to disclose relationships.  That review thread was allowed to continue for 9 pages until the completion of their tests.  Then it was locked.  The links to the review video are banned due to the fact that they are considered posting on a banned member's behalf which is not allowed per the forum guidelines - not because of the content.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3038
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #79 on: September 04, 2013, 08:58 AM »
Jonathan,

I remember the whole fiasco and you summarised it perfectly. I totally agree with you.


Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2013, 10:20 AM »
In reply to jonathan-m's post,  the dealer mentioned was not banned for the test or his Festool dealer status.  The ban was for activity here prior to the other thread and failure to disclose relationships.  That review thread was allowed to continue for 9 pages until the completion of their tests.  Then it was locked.  The links to the review video are banned due to the fact that they are considered posting on a banned member's behalf which is not allowed per the forum guidelines - not because of the content.

Peter

Is that thread still here? I'd like to read it but can't find it, searching has been difficult.
+1

Offline Festool USA

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
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  • Posts: 8280
    • Festool USA
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #81 on: September 04, 2013, 10:50 AM »
Just to add to what Peter and others have said, the Mafell dealer in question (Sander is his name) came onto the forum and began promoting and advocating Mafell products and never disclosed his affiliation with Mafell. Even after I messaged him, he denied any affiliation and pretended to just be another guy like one of you. I later found definitive proof that he was being dishonest. So, he was banned from the forum. Per our forum guidelines, another member cannot post on behalf of a banned member. This rule was in place long before this transpired.

Some time later, a thread began with a new member making their first post with a video of the Carvex bending a blade in what was portrayed as an unbiased video comparison with the P1CC. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, myself and others attempted to offer assistance only to find out later that this new forum member, as well as two others who later joined the thread, were affiliated with the aforementioned Mafell dealer, Sander, and did not disclose that information up front.

Despite what I personally felt was compelling evidence that the video was extremely biased and meant to discredit the merits of the Carvex, the thread was allowed to continue until the tests results were completed.

This Mafell dealer in the Netherlands, Sander, and his testers have been deceptive here on the forum multiple times now and I do not condone his practices. I'm surprised that Mafell allows this type of thing because I believe it hurts their brand image.

Since this thread, we have had several forum members replicate the cut without issues and post their results.

Here's a link to the fiasco, which I would agree that's what it was. Please feel free to read it, but I'd respectfully ask that we not get back into a heated debate. Use it as a reference and form your opinion. I've not revisited that thread since it was originally made, so let me apologize in advance for anything I might have said that was out of line. I believe strongly in what Festool represents and feel compelled to protect what I believe in.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/carvex-420-first-impressions

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2013, 12:35 PM »
Thanks Shane, I think you kept your cool better than I would lol.

For those wanting to read the review it is indeed posted here at FOG in post #222 of that comical thread.
+1

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2013, 12:41 PM »
I assure anyone reading that thread that Shane, Seth, and I do not get our jollies have to do non-helpful moderating in a thread and that thread will be remembered by us for a loooooong time.

Rock on and make sawdust!

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1555
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2013, 01:10 PM »
FOG, being owned and operated by Festool itself, have to be applauded for this website. In the time that I've been on this forum they have always allowed for constructive criticism and comparison to competitors. It stands as another excellent feature to Festool's customer service. While there are instances where I prefer a competitor's product, Festool remain extremely high quality! Hat's off to the moderators, this board in general, and festool as a whole.

Online mikeomalley

  • Posts: 43
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2013, 03:25 PM »
Ghostfist, Totally agree. Mike

Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #86 on: November 23, 2015, 08:51 AM »
Hi guys, sorry to dig out this topic.

Just wondered if the P1CC was sold with the "old" systainer
or the "new" one (the one wich has the unique central rotative latch).

Thanks !

Offline CrazyLarry

  • Posts: 265
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2015, 09:09 AM »
Hi guys, sorry to dig out this topic.

Just wondered if the P1CC was sold with the "old" systainer
or the "new" one (the one wich has the unique central rotative latch).

Thanks !

Currently the old one... rumour mill says mafell will be phasing in T-Locs Q2 next year though :)

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2015, 10:03 AM »
It's also sometimes a squeeze to get the cable bundled in there, probably worth switching it out for a newer larger one if you can get the insert to fit.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline paulc75

  • Posts: 67
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2015, 10:17 PM »
Noticed at toolfair that some Mafell are now in tlocs labelled T-Max. Only a KSS at the moment until all current stock sells. This us what the Mafell rep said to me. So no P1CC in Tloc yet. I was told that there are still over 100 P1CC on stock in the classics.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2015, 11:49 PM »
Hi guys, sorry to dig out this topic.

Just wondered if the P1CC was sold with the "old" systainer
or the "new" one (the one wich has the unique central rotative latch).

Thanks !

Much the same as marrying a women because you like her lipstick and shoes, you can always buy the Systainer, and the packaging does not actually do any sawing.

I like the classic syatainers myself, but I did 40 sys-1 in the T-loc last week.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline DB10

  • Posts: 879
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2015, 05:47 AM »

[/quote]

Much the same as marrying a women because you like her lipstick and shoes, you can always buy the Systainer, and the packaging does not actually do any sawing.

I like the classic syatainers myself, but I did 40 sys-1 in the T-loc last week.
[/quote]

@Holmz    40 - Sys1's, So it must have been you who snapped up all the remaining 90 year stock............Are you building a new house out of Systainers?

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2015, 06:15 AM »
@DB10 - I went to get some plumbing gear out of the Ikea wire rack job I have had for 20 years.
Again the 'bastard of a thing' avalanched down with one shelf dropping down to the next one, and so forth.
I was trending towards another Tourettes moment.

However I remained strangely calm.

Without the permission of the Haus-Boss I retired to my study and ordered 40 after carefully consideration...

This included considering the old kitchen bench that is in the garage where the drawers and doors are also fully knackered.
I have sand paper in one dodgy drawer and can never get to things.

Then I scratched the beard...  [cool]

And considered for the umptenth time how to make a work bench that replace the kitchen bench.
I want it on wheels so I can shift it about.
And I want to be able to break it down to flat-pack it if/when I move. So I have been considering unglued dowels/dominos for alignment and screws to hold it together.

So I ordered a Lamello Zeta-P2 and some clampex to use for the function of screws.   [cool]

I am looking at vacuum bags at the moment [embarassed] as I have a roll of carbon fibre. So weighing up using an end-grain balsa core with c/f face-sheets. I may just use the fibreglass face-sheet material.
Probably 8 feet long with a top and bottom and a center spine, and some dividers every systainer width to stiffen it... Sort of a thick Paulk design.
I'll probably paint the carcase with an automotive paint and 2-pack clear coat it.
I whack some castors on the base to shift it about.

That bench will hold a lot of the systainers and I can texta chisels, sand paper, etc on those systainers or have a lookup table for my crap may be.  [embarassed]

Back onto the p1cc... I spoke with the local "Test & Tag" fellow this arvo.
He charges $6/tool, and maybe another $6 /extension-leads.

He said no worries with an Aussie male end on a p1cc. If I have not already done that, then add $10/tool and it is stamped compliant. He also said no worries with a Nuetrik on it, but that may be another few $/tool to test-n-tag them.  [cool]

I was leaning on the Domino last weekend, and I now wish that all the manufactures put Nuetrik on, rather than a "plug it". It would make the tools more like an ISO standard "system". And the Nuetrik feels a lot more solid than a "plug-it".

The Haus-Boss wants an MDF craft credenza. I spoke of Jarrah and she said as long as it is painted white and looks like MDF she doesn't care what I use.  [scared]
The Zeta will do that first to break the news to her... And then a book shelf for her work...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 06:18 AM by Holmz »

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2015, 07:16 AM »

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2015, 03:19 PM »
@Kev - Dictum has a fantastic web site.

Where is makes as much sense or more, is for something like a p1cc or xl700.
For the cost of an Aussy plug-it (XL700) one can save enough to get the systainer kit of dominos.
And for a couple $ for an Aussy male plug end one can get p1cc for a competitive price.

After 1000$, the GST+Duty make it less attractive, but it is still attractive.

When an imported p1cc is less than a green saw, it is sort of a no-brainer unless one requires an LED light.

Offline andreasg

  • Posts: 77
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2015, 03:46 PM »
I think I have seen that video earlier. Seems like an awesome tool! But guess you need different rails. And a ton of extras. And moving away from the Festool system isn¨t even a question that is up for debate. This seems cooler than my Trion, and that´s okei too:)

Congratulation with a nice new enviable tool:)

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 879
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #96 on: November 25, 2015, 06:22 PM »
Thanks @Holmz Your like a mad scientist, I enjoy your posts but don't always understand them.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2015, 06:24 PM »
Thanks @Holmz Your like a mad scientist, I enjoy your posts but don't always understand them.

@DB10 I think you'll find he is actually a real, live mad scientist ... with documentation to prove it !! [wink]

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 879
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2015, 03:05 AM »
Thanks @Holmz Your like a mad scientist, I enjoy your posts but don't always understand them.

@DB10 I think you'll find he is actually a real, live mad scientist ... with documentation to prove it !! [wink]
@Kev maybe @Holmz  could explain to me how the flux capacitor works, in layman's terms. Then I could go back in time and snap up some of those 90 year systainers before you boys got them all!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2015, 03:14 AM »
Thanks @Holmz Your like a mad scientist, I enjoy your posts but don't always understand them.

@DB10 I think you'll find he is actually a real, live mad scientist ... with documentation to prove it !! [wink]
@Kev maybe @Holmz  could explain to me how the flux capacitor works, in layman's terms. Then I could go back in time and snap up some of those 90 year systainers before you boys got them all!

@DB10 I need to explain the butterfly effect to you .. if 90th Anniversary Systainers ended up in the wrong hands it could mean the end of civilisation as we know it!!! [scared] [eek]

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #100 on: November 26, 2015, 05:28 AM »
Thanks @Holmz Your like a mad scientist, I enjoy your posts but don't always understand them.

You and me both brutha.

Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #101 on: November 28, 2015, 07:33 AM »
Do you guys got the Collins coping too ?

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #102 on: November 28, 2015, 08:36 AM »
Yes - but I have not had a need for it yet.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 605
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2015, 08:39 PM »
Do you guys got the Collins coping too ?

I have the Collins Coping Foot for my P1cc and LOVE it! For the work I do (mostly interior millwork), I actually end up using the coping foot at least as much, if not more, than the standard base. A worthwhile investment if you plan on coping a lot of millwork.
CT-26, CT-MIDI, CT-36 AC, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1555
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2015, 12:20 AM »
Tom, wasn't it you who got Collins to make the p1cc foot? If so thanx I finally picked one up for myself

Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2015, 12:41 PM »
@ Tom + Ghost: I'm guessing you can't have the splinter guard installed while using the coping foot ?
Did you notice any splinter issues ?

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #106 on: November 29, 2015, 01:05 PM »
Do I need* one of these coping feet for my P1CC? I'm skirting my extension next week with around 80 metres of this stuff: http://www.dressermouldings.com/store/timber-skirtings/type-36a-timber-skirting.html

I normally just "manage" with a smaller blade and some luck - will this improve things once I've got my head around the technique?

*We all understand the varying levels of need here, I'm talking actual need, not kind of vaguely need.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #107 on: November 29, 2015, 01:18 PM »
I can't comment on using the coping foot as I haven't used yet I have used my p1cc to cope similar skirting and I honestly didn't find it quicker for myself than just using the coping saw on moulded part. It felt more like using a power tool for the sake of it. Maybe different on much larger moulding. For myself it doesn't feel like a purchase I need ye other who have used might think different

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #108 on: November 29, 2015, 01:21 PM »
I'm painting it too, so the butchery gets hidden  [smile]
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 605
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #109 on: November 29, 2015, 01:50 PM »
@ Tom + Ghost: I'm guessing you can't have the splinter guard installed while using the coping foot ?
Did you notice any splinter issues ?

When coping with the Coping Foot, you hold the saw on the back side of the material so the blade is cutting on the pull stroke, so any chips or tear out occur on the back side of the work, leaving a very crisp, sharp face.

One mistake a lot of users make is to try to use a fine toothed blade for coping with the Coping Foot. It may sound counterintuitive, but my best results have been with rather aggressive blades, as they tend to be more stout and can stand up to tighter turns. Again, remember that any chipping will occur on the back side of the work.

Ghostfist, you are correct that I had my P1cc shipped directly to Collins for them to develop the coping foot for it, I'm glad that it's being well received!

Wuffles, nobody really "needs" a Coping Foot, but if you are making more than a cope or two, I've found it to be a HUGE time saver, particularly on large crown moulding, or when working with hard or dense materials like Maple. Plan on a dozen or so copes to get the hang of using the Coping Foot, but after that time investment it will speed up your work tremendously.
CT-26, CT-MIDI, CT-36 AC, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #110 on: November 29, 2015, 01:54 PM »
@ Tom + Ghost: I'm guessing you can't have the splinter guard installed while using the coping foot ?
Did you notice any splinter issues ?

When coping with the Coping Foot, you hold the saw on the back side of the material so the blade is cutting on the pull stroke, so any chips or tear out occur on the back side of the work, leaving a very crisp, sharp face.

One mistake a lot of users make is to try to use a fine toothed blade for coping with the Coping Foot. It may sound counterintuitive, but my best results have been with rather aggressive blades, as they tend to be more stout and can stand up to tighter turns. Again, remember that any chipping will occur on the back side of the work.

Ghostfist, you are correct that I had my P1cc shipped directly to Collins for them to develop the coping foot for it, I'm glad that it's being well received!

Wuffles, nobody really "needs" a Coping Foot, but if you are making more than a cope or two, I've found it to be a HUGE time saver, particularly on large crown moulding, or when working with hard or dense materials like Maple. Plan on a dozen or so copes to get the hang of using the Coping Foot, but after that time investment it will speed up your work tremendously.

Righto. I normally trace on the back side and jigsaw from there to avoid tear out on the front and also (more importantly) to give myself a flat something to draw on and cut through.

I reckon I'll give it a miss this time and perhaps have a go on one in the future at a trade show or something and see if it's my thing.

Cheers for the info.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #111 on: December 04, 2015, 03:30 AM »
Hi everyone,

Just received my P1CC a few days ago and absolutely love it. Only complaint: tilt base has no dust extraction which is a bit weird.

Also when cutting holes or circles, which hole of the lateral arm are you using ? Maffell's manual isn't clear.

Thanks guys

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #112 on: December 04, 2015, 03:34 AM »
Hi everyone,

Just received my P1CC a few days ago and absolutely love it. Only complaint: tilt base has no dust extraction which is a bit weird.

Also when cutting holes or circles, which hole of the lateral arm are you using ? Maffell's manual isn't clear.

Thanks guys

The one in-line with the front of the blade? Can't remember, not come a cropper on it though.

This'll send you back to sleep but might help:

Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #113 on: December 04, 2015, 08:47 AM »
Thanks mate

Offline jmac80

  • Posts: 312
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #114 on: December 04, 2015, 12:25 PM »
I see screwfix in the UK have just started selling mafell gear.
James

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #115 on: December 04, 2015, 01:53 PM »
At a hilarious price point?
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Offline jmac80

  • Posts: 312
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #116 on: December 04, 2015, 02:01 PM »
At a hilarious price point?

Amazingly competitive for a change... everyone must sell mafell gear at pretty much rrp?
James

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2015, 02:24 PM »
I got a discount for having a hairline crack in a systainer on something Mafelly once.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Online ear3

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #118 on: December 04, 2015, 04:05 PM »
I want to hire this guy to read me bedtime stories.  Sorry if this has already been asked and answered in this thread, but can the Mafell jigsaw ride the Festool rail?


Hi everyone,

Just received my P1CC a few days ago and absolutely love it. Only complaint: tilt base has no dust extraction which is a bit weird.

Also when cutting holes or circles, which hole of the lateral arm are you using ? Maffell's manual isn't clear.

Thanks guys

The one in-line with the front of the blade? Can't remember, not come a cropper on it though.

This'll send you back to sleep but might help:


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Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #119 on: December 04, 2015, 04:17 PM »
@ edward reno: the P1cc can't ride the festool rail because of the very thin rail being specific to Mafell.



However, the P1cc will slide next to the mafell / festool rail:

« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 04:23 PM by hemdale »

Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2015, 04:22 PM »




Love this "circular cut" feature [emoji14][emoji106]

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Offline Holmz

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2015, 04:53 PM »
... but can the Mafell jigsaw ride the Festool rail?
...

Reminds me of a blue blues song with the hobos riding the rail.
"The New Panama Limited", is a modern example.

Or someone could write a blue song about FT rails.
"I missed my connection blues".

Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #122 on: December 07, 2015, 05:25 PM »




Love this "circular cut" feature [emoji14][emoji106]

I will actually try this tomorrow. Totally forgot about that feature!
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Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
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Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Wuffles

  • Posts: 1313
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #123 on: December 08, 2015, 02:42 AM »




Love this "circular cut" feature [emoji14][emoji106]

I will actually try this tomorrow. Totally forgot about that feature!

Things I miss by refusing to read manuals. I might try it too, was completely unaware.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3204
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #124 on: December 08, 2015, 04:16 AM »


@ Tom + Ghost: I'm guessing you can't have the splinter guard installed while using the coping foot ?
Did you notice any splinter issues ?

One mistake a lot of users make is to try to use a fine toothed blade for coping with the Coping Foot. It may sound counterintuitive, but my best results have been with rather aggressive blades, as they tend to be more stout and can stand up to tighter turns.

I realized that recently. I have been using the tiny little Bosch laminate blades that allow you to do tight turns. Then while using my new cordless carvex I tried a scribe (cope) with a trion blade. Well it actually worked better , as you say they're stiffer so don't twist like the smaller blades.

Offline VaDimZH

  • Posts: 173
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #125 on: March 31, 2016, 02:05 AM »
I can do it with ANY jig saw ! Whats a point ?

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1555
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #126 on: March 31, 2016, 05:57 AM »
I think the point is that you set a pin right in the base to do this specific radius. It's just another feature of the saw.

Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #127 on: April 02, 2016, 02:14 AM »
VaDimZH:

The point is: the point! ;)

It has a point/needle under the sole which sets the radius to the standard hole saw for ac outlets. It is not "necessary to have" on a jigsaw - but it is clever!

:)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 76
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #128 on: December 03, 2016, 06:37 AM »
Mhea... I don't see what all the fuss is about...
For starters, if it doesn't take the Collins Coping Foot- you can keep it...
What is the fuss all about?

Try this on any other jigsaw (135mm diameter in 1-1/2in scaffold board - not soft, easy to cut chipboard like most people demo with):



The Collins foot is now available (in the UK from Toolovation  - they also sell models for the Carvex and generic jigsaws) and I have one  ;D  Nobody needs one - until they have to scribe quantities of massive oak cornice (crown) mouldings. Thanks to Tom Gensmer for making it possible  [not worthy]

Te P1cc is out and out the most powerful jigsaw out there. It also has a superb angle base which allows you to cut left sides, then swap the base round to make identical right-side cuts. This can be brilliant when making complex scribes - the Collins foot diesn't do everything. Oh, and the P1cc bases attach and adjust without the need for tools. Not so bothered about the track, but pretty accurate with a W1 and the (Mafell) track

I've had mine 9 months. It replaced a Bosch GST135BCE which was bought in comparison to a Trion. I looked at the Carvex, too, but it wasn't for me

Only downside to the P1cc is the price - that  was a massive ask for any tool and stalled my purchase several times.

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- Shaker Maxims

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #129 on: December 03, 2016, 09:02 AM »
Maybe a square on the cut scaffold board could show how square the P1cc cuts,

if you have the time, thanks job and Knock.

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #130 on: December 03, 2016, 10:19 AM »
Mhea... I don't see what all the fuss is about...
For starters, if it doesn't take the Collins Coping Foot- you can keep it...
What is the fuss all about?

Try this on any other jigsaw (135mm diameter in 1-1/2in scaffold board - not soft, easy to cut chipboard like most people demo with):

(Attachment Link)

The Collins foot is now available (in the UK from Toolovation  - they also sell models for the Carvex and generic jigsaws) and I have one  ;D  Nobody needs one - until they have to scribe quantities of massive oak cornice (crown) mouldings. Thanks to Tom Gensmer for making it possible  [not worthy]

Te P1cc is out and out the most powerful jigsaw out there. It also has a superb angle base which allows you to cut left sides, then swap the base round to make identical right-side cuts. This can be brilliant when making complex scribes - the Collins foot diesn't do everything. Oh, and the P1cc bases attach and adjust without the need for tools. Not so bothered about the track, but pretty accurate with a W1 and the (Mafell) track

I've had mine 9 months. It replaced a Bosch GST135BCE which was bought in comparison to a Trion. I looked at the Carvex, too, but it wasn't for me

Only downside to the P1cc is the price - that  was a massive ask for any tool and stalled my purchase several times.



Well I bought the Mafell, I tried it for a week and I am back to my Bosch. The darn Mafell barrel grips are horrible for me, just as are all the other barrel grips.  If I cant control the speed with the trigger and if I cant get my hand around the thing and if I can't stop the blade from moving with the one hand I am holding the jig(meaning my trigger finger) it's an 800.00 piece of metal sitting on my bench.

Sorry, but the Bosch is still the king of jigs and until Mafell makes a D handle(if they do I cant find one) the Bosch will always be the king of the hill for 50% of all woodworkers that can't stand not being able to hold the tool and control the speed and STOP the cut with a fingers touch.

I recently tested 5 different jig saws(corded) , my conclusion, the Bosch is my favorite. It leaves the best cut top and bottom, does the best dust collection,  is the simplest to control by a huge margin and if price is factored in, well its not even close.

This week I am testing cordless jig saws and right now have 4 cordless versions. I am testing against the corded Bosch and still none of them touch the Bosch, not even the cordless Bosch itself. So back they go as well. One thing I have learned is there isn't one cordless jig that compares to any of the corded jigs yet. Not if dust collection and rpm/power ratio's are considered.

The Mafell may cut deep and square, that's great, but the Bosch is near as good and for the majority of everything else(actually everything else), in my hand the Bosch is king.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 10:29 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline rvieceli

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #131 on: December 03, 2016, 10:44 AM »
@Dovetail65 which Bosch Jig are you using? Thinking about upgrading mine.

thanks

Ron

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2318
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #132 on: December 03, 2016, 05:59 PM »
If you do not like barrel grip saws, this the Mafell is not the choice. But, it cuts better than any other jigsaw hands down in my experience. Thick or thin stock, curves, straight, you name it - the cut quality is unsurpassed by anything else I have tried. Now, I actually really like barrel grip saws and do not need the feather-trigger in the work I do and if I did, then I too would want a top-handle. I actually looked at and considered on the JS572 in top-handle when they first came out and opted for the barrel grip of the same saw. I like it as well, but it does not come close to the Mafell in cut-quality or squareness of cut. I also have a Carvex and owned and sold a Trion earlier this year.

I think that the Bosch is a great saw and agree that it will meet the needs of many people. I use my jigsaw for joinery cuts that are awkward for a bandsaw or require jigs and complicated TS set-ups and so I can trust the Mafell for perfect cuts in these scenarios and it is worth every penny.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 432
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #133 on: December 04, 2016, 07:43 AM »
Festool should copy  the p1cc design  and  make  some improvements.
Like increase  the space  between   the  plunger  and work  surface  so that there is more visibility  to see the cutting line.
And make a D handle version. And of course offer it at a cheaper price.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #134 on: December 04, 2016, 07:48 AM »
Festool should copy  the p1cc design  and  make  some improvements.
Like increase  the space  between   the  plunger  and work  surface  so that there is more visibility  to see the cutting line.
And make a D handle version. And of course offer it at a cheaper price.

Is the patent is 25 years?

Competition is good for the consumers.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 432
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #135 on: December 04, 2016, 07:52 AM »
No idea.
I thought when you changed the design slightly  then patents don't stand?

Did fein have a patent   for the multitool?
Was glad to see  them knocked of their perch with that tool. Only a matter of time before mafell is too.

Fein, Festool, Bosch, Metabo  and  Mafell. All made in   Germany afaik.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 08:08 AM by Lbob131 »

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 76
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #136 on: December 04, 2016, 08:18 AM »
Well I bought the Mafell, I tried it for a week and I am back to my Bosch. The darn Mafell barrel grips are horrible for me, just as are all the other barrel grips.  If I cant control the speed with the trigger and if I cant get my hand around the thing and if I can't stop the blade from moving with the one hand I am holding the jig(meaning my trigger finger) it's an 800.00 piece of metal sitting on my bench.
You don't like barrel grips. So you'll never like the P1cc. Period. In Germany, where the P1cc originates, barrel grips are actually pretty common in the same way that D-handles are the norm for site use in the UK where I work, except for kitchen fitters where barrel grips are gaining ground fast - and if you ever need to do a 6ft scribe in a 40mm wide strip you'll understand just why they are preferred by certain trades. Like most tradesmen I tend to set the fastest useable speed and most appropriate pendulum before making a cut then just run with it - no hesitation or deviation - to the end of the cut. Rarely need to do trapped cuts, but if I do I simply reverse the saw slightly at which point the orbital action stops as well. And I keep hearing from people about the need to be able to change cutting speed on the fly but I don't ever see guys doing it. Why is this?

I recently tested 5 different jig saws(corded) , my conclusion, the Bosch is my favorite. It leaves the best cut top and bottom, does the best dust collection
The cut quality is probably more down to the blade choice in my experience. As for dust extraction - well both the Carvex and the P1cc are ahead of the Bosch GST135BCE, GST140CE and GST160CE. I tried them all out with MDF and chipboard using T101B and T101BR blades before buying a P1cc and that was my conclusion

Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 76
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #137 on: December 04, 2016, 08:28 AM »
Maybe a square on the cut scaffold board could show how square the P1cc cuts,
Those are long gone, I'm afraid. They were cut as a favour for one of our scaffolders (hence the scaffolding board). They did roll across the top of a relatively flat workbench in a straight line, too. I will try to make some similar cuts this week and show how square the P1cc can cut - probably scaffolding board or softwood because we are still in that phase of this project
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Online antss

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #138 on: December 04, 2016, 10:39 AM »
Yes, Fein invented the multi tool and held patents freezing out competitors til about 2010. 

No, slight changes don't circumvent a patent. What would be the point of a patent then ?

Fein still enjoys the perch, but others are climbing the tree.  Which is good. Fein's tool remained relatively unchanged for the life of the patent getting only minor cosmetic and power refinements for the first thirty years.
In the last 7-8 we've seen them introduce no less than 4 different models, develop two quick blade change systems, significantly boost power and blade arc, add dust collection, design a plunge mechanism and depth stop, introduce a cordless version, and a model with isolated motor / vibration damping chassis.  All while still managing to make a tool in an EU country that lasts decades in a professional environment.  Price has gone down too.  The new competition has also built a new market for blades that these machines use. 

I doubt Mafell's status is in jeopardy either.  It's pretty hard for a newcomer and risky for a lower established player to say to investors that they want to make the bestest, fastest, most expensive tricked out widget that will sell in low numbers , oh and there is already a competitor.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 10:51 AM by antss »

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #139 on: December 04, 2016, 10:48 AM »
Maybe a square on the cut scaffold board could show how square the P1cc cuts,
Those are long gone, I'm afraid. They were cut as a favour for one of our scaffolders (hence the scaffolding board). They did roll across the top of a relatively flat workbench in a straight line, too. I will try to make some similar cuts this week and show how square the P1cc can cut - probably scaffolding board or softwood because we are still in that phase of this project

Appreciate the consideration!

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 76
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #140 on: December 04, 2016, 01:40 PM »
Yes, Fein invented the multi tool and held patents freezing out competitors til about 2010.
And it looks like they, in conjunction with Bosch, are doing it again. Since March this year all new Fein and Bosch multitools available in the UK have been supplied with the StarLock system tool mounting. To date StarLock tooling (a patented design) is only available from those two manufacturers and the new tools won't use the older tooling, so if you buy a new tool you are locked into the more expensive blades fom Fein and Bosch. Maybe not much of a problem if you are using a few blades a year but on the current project we've got 4 or 5 trades using a dozen or more multitools so it very soon adds up. I'm currently using 4 to 6 blades a month at the moment as are two other carpenters. We've already sent back one  new Fein Multimaster and requested an older/different model from the dealer (ended up with an new old-stock Bosch GOP). I don't see us being alone doing that.
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Online antss

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #141 on: December 04, 2016, 04:05 PM »
Yes, those two did announce a new ,cough, partnership for StarLoc.  Was announced earlier this spring.

There are some performance gains as well as practical aspects like not being able to use certain blades on lower powered tools, so it's not a total money grab. 

Though you can bet that was considered.

In fairness, Bosch makes some darn good blades.  Every independent test I've seen confirms this and if you factor in longevity vs. price against other blades they often end up being cheaper measured on a per cut basis.  For what I do, the Fein blades work better/longer than the Bosch , so it really depends on what YOU are cutting.  I've also used the chingchongchnag eBay blades as well as the dremel and cheapo blades from Harbor Freight. I think their diamond and carbide offerings are better than the Fein stuff - but I'm not using them day in and out at a stone fabrication shop, so will never wear one out.  Making the price of a premimum one not very compelling to me. 

It's like any other tooling really, you can get something that cuts for 10quid or a 100 and many in between. They all cut, but some represent better value for the money.

Offline Alec Buscemi

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #142 on: December 04, 2016, 05:28 PM »
@Holmz innovation is more important than competition.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #143 on: December 04, 2016, 06:17 PM »
No idea.
I thought when you changed the design slightly  then patents don't stand?

Did fein have a patent   for the multitool?
Was glad to see  them knocked of their perch with that tool. Only a matter of time before mafell is too.

Fein, Festool, Bosch, Metabo  and  Mafell. All made in   Germany afaik.

Whether you are glad to see them knocked off their perch or not. The saw is revolutionary in the pendulum action. So I do not think that the perch is in any danger.

It is not like the saw is only marketed good, it is actually a danged good good saw.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #144 on: December 04, 2016, 06:22 PM »
I see the potential for this thread to go personal so I will jump it and add:

"Let's not make this personal.  We are only talking about tools."

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Holmz

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #145 on: December 04, 2016, 06:34 PM »
Thanks, but I have not been personally offended yet @Peter Halle .

@Alec Buscemi  to be sure, Innovation is good. Putting an LED strobe and D handle on it are not the same "innovative" as the pendulum mechanism and blade clamp mechanism.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #146 on: December 04, 2016, 06:52 PM »
Thanks, but I have not been personally offended yet @Peter Halle .

@Alec Buscemi  to be sure, Innovation is good. Putting an LED strobe and D handle on it are not the same "innovative" as the pendulum mechanism and blade clamp mechanism.

Thank you for your notice.  I worry about the entire community at whole and also those outside the community who read posts.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Alec Buscemi

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #147 on: December 04, 2016, 06:55 PM »
Not sure about your post @Holmz. Perhaps you can link it logically to your comment about competition being good for the consumer and to my reply that innovation is more important.

Offline McNally Family

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Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #148 on: December 04, 2016, 06:57 PM »
@dovetail wrote; "The Mafell may cut deep and square, that's great, but the Bosch is near as good and for the majority of everything else(actually everything else), in my hand the Bosch is king".


Never heard of a tool being described as superior, by calling it "near as good", as it's competitor.

Bosch is a good jigsaw.  Heck, they essentially owned the category for years (my first jigsaw was a Bosch "D" handled version).  But for me, superior engineering is like tool porn, and in this category, IMO, Mafell wears the crown.

Perhaps someday Mafell will bring this model back;

http://www.toolstop.co.uk/mafell-stab65e-900w-oscillating-jigsaw-with-built-in-light-p5787
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 07:17 PM by McNally Family »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: Something else Metric |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3460
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #149 on: December 04, 2016, 09:48 PM »
Competition and innovation are both good...competition without innovation would mean we would still be driving around in Model T's, innovation without competition would mean we would still be trying to afford a Mercedes...the original automobile.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 270
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #150 on: December 04, 2016, 10:14 PM »
Yes, Fein invented the multi tool and held patents freezing out competitors til about 2010.
And it looks like they, in conjunction with Bosch, are doing it again. Since March this year all new Fein and Bosch multitools available in the UK have been supplied with the StarLock system tool mounting. To date StarLock tooling (a patented design) is only available from those two manufacturers and the new tools won't use the older tooling, so if you buy a new tool you are locked into the more expensive blades fom Fein and Bosch. Maybe not much of a problem if you are using a few blades a year but on the current project we've got 4 or 5 trades using a dozen or more multitools so it very soon adds up. I'm currently using 4 to 6 blades a month at the moment as are two other carpenters. We've already sent back one  new Fein Multimaster and requested an older/different model from the dealer (ended up with an new old-stock Bosch GOP). I don't see us being alone doing that.

The multimaster blades may be or seem expensive when compared to reciprocating or jigsaw blades, but the current cost is far less than it used to be.

My first Multimaster was a MSX636-2 model, which at the time had a list price of $250, and a street price between $150 and $200.  I purchased it before the multimasters were being sold thru major stores like Home Depot. At the time you had to purchase Fein blades, and the basic round "regular" steel blades were around $25 each. I'm not sure whether the Fein "high speed steel, hss" blades were even available yet, but I recall a price of about $50 each for the hss when they were. I remmember the offset hss steel blades were even more expensive, and according to an old price list I have had a list price of atound $80, and I don't recall a discount on those of more than 25% ffom retailers. The Fein E-cut blades when they were introduced had a price around $40 or up.

The current cost of the Fein oscillating blades according to The Toolnut website, is mostly $16 or less per blade, with many around $12. Bosch oscillating blades are even more affordable. The Bosch blades seem to be about $10 each or less, with the carbide toothed ones being $16, or less each if you buy a multi pack.

Prices in the UK seem to be about the same.

Meanwhile, good jigsaw and reciprocating saw blades have been getting more expensive, with the possible exception of the newer carbide tipped ones which in some cases have gotten more affordable.

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Online antss

  • Posts: 1275
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #151 on: December 04, 2016, 10:45 PM »
Stab 65 - what a horrible name, and an even worse looking profile.  [scared]

Bet it cuts like a dream though.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 270
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #152 on: December 04, 2016, 10:58 PM »
Stab 65 - what a horrible name, and an even worse looking profile.  [scared]

Bet it cuts like a dream though.

I don't know how it cuts, but the older Mafell jigsaw did win a design award.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #153 on: December 04, 2016, 11:16 PM »
Not sure about your post @Holmz. Perhaps you can link it logically to your comment about competition being good for the consumer and to my reply that innovation is more important.

Yes Alec...
The Festo track saw came out some decades ago, and ~10 years ago the patents ran out, and the Bosch/Mafell and Makita and deWalt all came out.

If there is a 25 year patent on the Mafell mechanism then at least we have a better jig saw now, and in 25 years we may have an update. And there could be some other clever update from another manufacturer before then.

Just putting a strobe or a handle on a saw is not the sort of innovation update I believe we are focussed on.

However from the perspective of the manufacturer they likely want to hold patents and prevent competition, or at least protect their R&D investment. So it is not like innovation gets shared around quickly.

So while we likely both concur that we like both innovation and competition, the manufacturer prefers their own innovation and less competition.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 11:18 PM by Holmz »

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 432
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #154 on: December 05, 2016, 08:20 AM »
No idea.
I thought when you changed the design slightly  then patents don't stand?

Did fein have a patent   for the multitool?
Was glad to see  them knocked of their perch with that tool. Only a matter of time before mafell is too.

Fein, Festool, Bosch, Metabo  and  Mafell. All made in   Germany afaik.

Whether you are glad to see them knocked off their perch or not. The saw is revolutionary in the pendulum action. So I do not think that the perch is in any danger.

It is not like the saw is only marketed good, it is actually a danged good good saw.

Are the pendulum actions  on the competitors  not as good? I have an older fein  multi tool.
But my next  purchase will be the metabo cordless  multitool.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #155 on: December 05, 2016, 10:13 AM »
There is no roller or guides. And the blade is not held in with an Allen head or Phillips head screw. So it is a departure from the origional sewing machine based design from Bosch.

The Metabo gear generally seems good for multi tool as well as grinders and batteries.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 432
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #156 on: December 05, 2016, 11:00 AM »
I was referring to fein being knocked off the perch  with the OMT.
But I agree  mafell  with the  current  p1cc   offering  will likely be dominating the perch for some time  with their revolutionary design.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 02:07 PM by Lbob131 »

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3877
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #157 on: December 05, 2016, 04:34 PM »
I see now why Alec was scratching his chin...

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 832
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #158 on: December 05, 2016, 04:46 PM »
I have the latest Bosch 160 jigsaw and it's an absolutely brilliant saw. I trialled it side-by-side with the Carvex and it beats it hands down for power, quality of cut and the more personal and less quantifiable "quality feel". I've also used the Mafell at a local college where I did a guest lecture/workshop on using sheet materials.

The Bosch is 95% of the tool that the Mafell is for 50% of the price. For me the Bosch is overkill for the amount of times I use a jigsaw and the low-medium accuracy of the end results I often only require of it. But if I needed the absolute last word in perfromance from a jigsaw, the Mafell would win out hands down.

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 76
Re: Mafell P1cc Jigsaw
« Reply #159 on: December 06, 2016, 07:24 AM »
If I cant control the speed with the trigger and if I cant get my hand around the thing and if I can't stop the blade from moving with the one hand I am holding the jig(meaning my trigger finger) it's an 800.00 piece of metal sitting on my bench.
As a quick rebuttal of that comment:



I've never seen the need to change the speed mid-flight. I can reiterate that the orbit action only commences when the blade is pushed in contact with the work and as you can clearly see, above, my thumb can operate the on-off switch whilst I am holding the tool normally (although I am right handed, for sinister folk it could be a lot less handy). The 3/4 grip is sufficiently good to use the tool in every circumstance I've come across to date - it just requires a slightly different approach

Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims