Author Topic: purchasing a new miter saw  (Read 10704 times)

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Offline lambeater

  • Posts: 465
purchasing a new miter saw
« on: October 31, 2010, 09:35 PM »
I know this has been talked about before but does anyone owner the new bosch glider. I'm about to shop for a new miter saw and really have nailed it down to either the kapex or bosch. Not sure about the bosch cutting accuracy and dust collection abilities. Already know the kapex abilities except the only thing I struggle with is $800 bosch, $1600 Kapex in Canada.
Advice and thoughts appreciated.

Thx
Lambeater

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Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1160
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 10:00 PM »
Personally, I would not buy that Bosch in it's first year of production. I am more inclined to let others find out what's "wrong" with the first release. Not saying that there is anything wrong with it.

I would also rather pay $1600($1300 for me) for a tool that I love, than 1/2 that for a tool that I don't. I also speak as someone who uses my tools professionally, YMMV.
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Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 623
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 11:33 PM »
i got to kick it around for a little bit and was very impressed. the solution to linear translation is not new but new to wood working. the solution that is used by Bosch is more rigid than the classic rail solution that we are accustomed too. if you like the lay out of the old Bosch saws than you will like it. both o the saw in question have features in their favor so pick the ones you like and buy the saw with the most checks in the boxes that you like.


I am going to buy the Bosch and with the savings make changes that i want.personal i would like to mix and match but you can not do that. [mad]

Offline Neill

  • Posts: 889
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 09:42 AM »
Lambeater,

I am sure that both saws do what they are supposed to do.

To me the big pluses with Festool are the technical support you get after the purchase and loyal users, as exemplified by this website.

Neill

By the way, are a lam beater or a lamb eater?  Either way, shame on you.   [wink] [smile]
Kapex, Domino, MFT/3, Rotex 150 FEQ, CT 22E, TS 55, RS2E Orbital Sander, C12 Drill, 1400 Router, Rotex 90 DX, Rotex 125 FEQ, LS 130 EQ Linear, Parallel Guide Set, Deltex 93 E, Trion 300 Barrell Grip, ETS 150/3 EQ, ES125 EQ, Guide Rail Accessory Kit, Sanding Block, various rails, systainers, sortainers, vacuum hoses and accessories for various tools.

Offline lambeater

  • Posts: 465
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 10:29 AM »
Personally, I would not buy that Bosch in it's first year of production. I am more inclined to let others find out what's "wrong" with the first release. Not saying that there is anything wrong with it.

I would also rather pay $1600($1300 for me) for a tool that I love, than 1/2 that for a tool that I don't. I also speak as someone who uses my tools professionally, YMMV.

Harry you are right. Do I love bosch tools, NO! except their german jigsaw. Do I love my festool tools YES! except their canadian pricing.

thx
Lambeater

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 623
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 03:46 PM »
well i think the bar for release problems is airly low for me. i am one of those that had problems (the whole binding grinding thing)with my kapex and returned it. i love my festools...i am hooked to the point of needing therapy, but i have to tell myself that they are not the only game in town and other people are making good tools.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3297
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 07:33 PM »
i have to agree . buy the bosch and save your money ( or invest in some thing else)
i have neither the kapex or the bosch but have heard there is very little between them only the fact one is twice the price of the other.

depending on your trade ( maybe only second fix carpentry only) you could buy 2 of the bosch and not have to keep changing angles all the time.

i dont equate 10 % increase in dust extaction with a double in cost
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Jesse Cloud

  • Posts: 1704
  • Festooling at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 09:09 PM »
Lambeater,

By the way, are a lam beater or a lamb eater?  Either way, shame on you.   [wink] [smile]

A few thoughts:

1. Lams sometimes need a good beating.   Whenever I do a complicated glue-up with a tight curve, I am sure to have a big, heavy mallet and a caul to get those lams even again after they cavort every which way.

2. Lamb, well yumm!  Grilled with Spanish pincho seasoning and a bit of fresh lemon juice.  It just doesn't get any better.

3. From a furniture making perspective, there are lots of cool things about the Kapex, but that smooth bevel setter with the calibratable laser makes the $$ leap from my wallet.   I have had Bosch saws before and they are good, but I could never trust one like I do the Kapex.  That Bosch liked to redefine 90 degrees from time to time, but the Kapex seems to hold on to the same setting for a lonnnngggg time.  I keep checking every month or so, but it is still dead square.

4. With the reduction in costly errors, less cleanup time, and less maintenance (resetting 90 degrees), the Kapex paid for itself a long time ago.  I'm in gravy land now. [cool]

Offline Don T

  • Posts: 1703
  • Phoenix, Az
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 09:26 PM »
I can't speak about the Bosch but I love the smooth actions of the Kapex.  I previosly had a PC and these are night and day when it comes to all the movements in a SCMS.  Not to mention the cut on the Kapex is very smooth.
RO150, C12, DF 500 Q, CT33, TS75, MFT3, Kapex 120, MFT3/Kapex, MFK 700, RO 90, ETS150/3, CT22, Centrotec Installers Kit, Parallel Guides & Ext, Carvex, OF1400, LR32 Set, MFS400 w/700 rails, KA UG Set, First Aid Kit, RTS 400 EQ, Vecturo OS400 Set, CT Wings, CT Drill Guide, Pro 5, CXS

Offline lambeater

  • Posts: 465
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 09:28 PM »
Lambeater,

I am sure that both saws do what they are supposed to do.

To me the big pluses with Festool are the technical support you get after the purchase and loyal users, as exemplified by this website.

Neill

By the way, are a lam beater or a lamb eater?  Either way, shame on you.   [wink] [smile]
Way I see it, you can beat em or eat em but they always taste good!!! [tongue] [tongue]

Lambeater

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1017
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2010, 11:40 PM »
I've only had the Kapex a few weeks but would not want any other SCMS now.
I used to use an Elu, and have used makita's and previous models of Bosch and Dewalt versions of the Elu, none as yet compare.
Take a trip to your nearest dealers and try them out, take in ease of use/set up, noise etc, then see which way your wallet opens!

Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline Neill

  • Posts: 889
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2010, 11:47 AM »
Jesse & Lambeater,

 [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Neill
Kapex, Domino, MFT/3, Rotex 150 FEQ, CT 22E, TS 55, RS2E Orbital Sander, C12 Drill, 1400 Router, Rotex 90 DX, Rotex 125 FEQ, LS 130 EQ Linear, Parallel Guide Set, Deltex 93 E, Trion 300 Barrell Grip, ETS 150/3 EQ, ES125 EQ, Guide Rail Accessory Kit, Sanding Block, various rails, systainers, sortainers, vacuum hoses and accessories for various tools.

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 912
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 02:03 PM »
My dealer has the bosch in stock.  Messed with both and I want the kapex. Clearly less flex in the kapex.  Much easier to carry
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 623
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 02:28 PM »
less flex really? almost an engineering impossibility. When comparing the cross section of the Bosch system and the festool rails the difference is huge. the rails have been a deflection problem for a long time. the cross sectional area of the rail versus the bosch system that is used in aircraft and other heavy industry for translation. the one that i used was very rigid. i wish i had taken photos of measuring deflection with my dial indicators. i was afraid of poor alignment not deflection..As an ME i suffer from an unnatural need to measure and test stuff. i even measure run out on my routers ( reason for owning all of festool stuff) ...i see a head to head coming up? [eek]

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 02:39 PM »
I have never been a great fan of bosch tools but I find it hard to believe that there is any deflection in the bosch system.I cant wait to see one and give it a wobble [big grin] I dont expect I will buy one as I think it will be the overall quality that will let it down.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 912
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 03:04 PM »
less flex really? almost an engineering impossibility. When comparing the cross section of the Bosch system and the festool rails the difference is huge. the rails have been a deflection problem for a long time. the cross sectional area of the rail versus the bosch system that is used in aircraft and other heavy industry for translation. the one that i used was very rigid. i wish i had taken photos of measuring deflection with my dial indicators. i was afraid of poor alignment not deflection..As an ME i suffer from an unnatural need to measure and test stuff. i even measure run out on my routers ( reason for owning all of festool stuff) ...i see a head to head coming up? [eek]

I got two employees to try it also and we all agreed.  And we were all surprised.  We didn't need measuring tools because the difference was obvious.

If I decide on a Kapex they'll have to order it because they sold the last one they had in stock to a guy that was waiting to see the new Bosch before he bought.  He saw it and bought the Kapex.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 03:12 PM by fshanno »
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 623
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 03:52 PM »
are you saying there was or was not flex? The thing that i did notice was the stand was a piece and flexed all over the place and i had to but it on a stable bench. was it flexing in the arm? though it should be mentioned the the kapex has a shorter throw and the length of the shafting has a role to play.it should also be mentioned that i adjusted the resistance of the arm because at its loosed setting it did feel loosey goosey. though to my chagrin i did not pay attention to run out issues at that time. aaaa hind sight. [embarassed]

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 912
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2010, 05:20 PM »
are you saying there was or was not flex? The thing that i did notice was the stand was a piece and flexed all over the place and i had to but it on a stable bench. was it flexing in the arm? though it should be mentioned the the kapex has a shorter throw and the length of the shafting has a role to play.it should also be mentioned that i adjusted the resistance of the arm because at its loosed setting it did feel loosey goosey. though to my chagrin i did not pay attention to run out issues at that time. aaaa hind sight. [embarassed]

On each saw I lowered the blade to cutting position and held the handle with one hand and the fence with the other and racked it side to side.  We could see the blade move relative to the edges of the plastic insert.  The Glide moves more than the Kapex.  We tried at full crosscut width, half and all the way in.  The Kapex is stiffer at each position.  The difference is obvious enough that you don't need equipment to know the Kapex is stiffer.  The blade, possible runnout and the stand have nothing to do with this.  It's all about the construction of the saw.  The Kapex is stiffer.  In fact the Kapex is stiffer than any other 12" saw my dealer has in stock -  Jet, Bosch, Milwaukee and DeWalt.  We tried them all.  

I too wondered about the glide action being too loose.  We tightened it and it didn't affect the flex in any way.


« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 10:27 PM by fshanno »
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2010, 08:47 PM »
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.........

Offline lambeater

  • Posts: 465
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2010, 09:30 AM »
Well I went down to my local festool dealer yesterday and took the Bosch glider for a dry run mainly to compare for my own benefit. Sure enough I did notice the flexing left and right in the cut slots. Did not like that. Looking more and more that the Kapex is probably coming home. Just going to have to figure out how to modify my Kreg inspired miter bench to fit the Kapex. See attached photo's of bench.
Thx for all the advise.
Lambeater.
 


Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2010, 09:53 AM »
Well I can't believe it... after all the hype.  :o :o :o :o :o :o



Neat workshop  [thumbs up]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6568
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2010, 10:00 AM »
I like that Idea!  Using a kind of plaster boards prop the lift up.   I might steal that idea for my workshop


JMB
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Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1288
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2010, 10:03 AM »
A nice shop like Lambeater's deserves a Kapex. Hellooo.   [big grin]

Offline lambeater

  • Posts: 465
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2010, 10:22 AM »
I like that Idea!  Using a kind of plaster boards prop the lift up.   I might steal that idea for my workshop


JMB

Had to apply some Kiwi engineering there. Did have to cut it shorter so I could acheive the correct pivot point for when it goes over center but also needed to be able to support the outfeed extension. Pretty easy to set up, just put and it rachets up then a couple of quick turns for the last adjustment and lock.

Lambeater

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6568
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2010, 11:02 AM »
I got the same props just in orange and like you said its quickly allows you to lift and able to turn it for adjustment is good.  Mine are a lot longer as I have not cut mine! But I will I think I like the easy set up and space saving .


JMB
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Offline lumbajac

  • Posts: 239
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2010, 02:25 PM »
Lambeater - care to share more shop pics? 

It looks like you have a nice setup - it has me wondering what the rest is like including: other tools, dimensions, etc.

Thanks.
Corey - U.P. of Michigan

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 912
Re: purchasing a new miter saw
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2010, 08:04 PM »
Looking more and more that the Kapex is probably coming home.

I think that station deserves something like an Omga.   Cast iron, induction motors, no compromise for the sake portability.  Check that option out before you buy.


The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.