tmorton
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Location: USA Member Since: Jan 2011
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« on: May 28, 2012, 10:07 PM » |
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Here is my very first video review. It would have been of a Festool product if it was AINA.  The video is a little dark at the beginning because of the extreme sun and heat in Texas today. Let me know if there are things I did not cover well. I plan on shooting a followup review after I have used it some more.
Thanks -Ty |
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TS-55, MFT/3, ETS 150-3, OF1400, Parallel Guides, RO-90, Domino DFQ-500, LR-32, PSB-300, Kapex and UG cart with new Wings, MFK 700, CXS
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Ken Nagrod
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2012, 10:48 PM » |
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Nice, Ty. I left you a comment on YouTube. I'll repeat my question here though. Isn't there a vacuum head attachment that more closely resembles the size of the rails and stiles like the VacSys has?
Also, could you fill us in on all of the cost details including shipping? Thanks.
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tmorton
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Location: USA Member Since: Jan 2011
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2012, 10:57 PM » |
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Ken, You are correct there is another head or clamp available. It is @ 200x55mm the pieces I was working with were actually about 40mm so I am not sure if it would have worked. It is on my list but I wanted to get a few other items (Woodpecker Squares) and the additional clamp heads are not inexpensive. As for pricing I am not sure that the dealer I refer to in the video has that all sorted out yet. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000.00 USD  for the clamp assembly and the foot switch release I believe. HTH -Ty |
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TS-55, MFT/3, ETS 150-3, OF1400, Parallel Guides, RO-90, Domino DFQ-500, LR-32, PSB-300, Kapex and UG cart with new Wings, MFK 700, CXS
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waynelang2001
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Location: south africa Member Since: Feb 2010
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2012, 08:34 AM » |
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This video made me fell dizzy......besides that it looks like a cool clamp......I think I could use that every with the melamine work im doing.
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tmorton
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Location: USA Member Since: Jan 2011
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2012, 09:04 AM » |
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Sorry my camera boy (13yr old) was a little shaky. I had youtube run a stabilizer filter on it and it should look better now. Next time we will use a tri-pod.
-Ty
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TS-55, MFT/3, ETS 150-3, OF1400, Parallel Guides, RO-90, Domino DFQ-500, LR-32, PSB-300, Kapex and UG cart with new Wings, MFK 700, CXS
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manicho3
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Location: USA Member Since: May 2012
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2012, 04:02 PM » |
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Nice video....
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Tom Bellemare
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Location: Austin, Texas - USA Member Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 3557
Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2012, 04:15 PM » |
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I'm a dealer for these. If anyone is interested, please give me a call.
I should have these up on my website in the next day of two.
Tom
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fshanno
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Location: Silsbee TX Member Since: Sep 2007
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2012, 03:57 PM » |
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I found some clamping heads that were dead ringers for the ones Festool is selling. They had the round and the long skinny. Now I can't find them.
Would a single clamping unit permit you to edge band a cabinet side that is 30"x24"?
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The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.
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Tom Bellemare
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Location: Austin, Texas - USA Member Since: Nov 2007
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Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2012, 04:22 PM » |
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I just stuck a 24" x 48" x 3/4" piece of MDF to mine at an angle hanging off the edge of the table. When I tried to remove it, the table moved instead. It was VERY securely fastened.  I have the mount suctioned to the table and the MDF suctioned to the mount. Tom |
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fshanno
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2012, 04:56 PM » |
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I just stuck a 24" x 48" x 3/4" piece of MDF to mine at an angle hanging off the edge of the table. When I tried to remove it, the table moved instead. It was VERY securely fastened.
I have the mount suctioned to the table and the MDF suctioned to the mount.
Tom
Totally awesome. Now the big question. Do you think you could punch mortises in the piece with a Domino? Do you think you could iron on edgebanding? The V-Clamp people say that you only need 90 psi and 1 to 2 cfm's to run a single pad of this type, depending on the wood. If that's true you could run it from a pancake in the field. So, is that true? And if it is true then why would I want to spend a penny on a vacuum pump just for clamping? |
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The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.
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Tom Bellemare
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Location: Austin, Texas - USA Member Since: Nov 2007
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Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2012, 05:39 PM » |
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Now the big question. Do you think you could punch mortises in the piece with a Domino? Do you think you could iron on edgebanding? I see no reason why not. I don't shove the table around when punching mortises. The V-Clamp people say that you only need 90 psi and 1 to 2 cfm's to run a single pad of this type, depending on the wood. If that's true you could run it from a pancake in the field. So, is that true? The technical data on that 160mm x 160mm suction plate states Air consumption at 48 liters/minute, which I calculate to be 1.6951 CFM. I've been assured that a pancake is all it needs. And if it is true then why would I want to spend a penny on a vacuum pump just for clamping? It takes a lot more than one penny. The biggest reason I could think of is noise. The vacuum pump should be quieter than most compressors. Tom |
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fshanno
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2012, 06:17 PM » |
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It takes a lot more than one penny. The biggest reason I could think of is noise. The vacuum pump should be quieter than most compressors.
Yes, that's a good point but I'm willing to deal with the noise and hold off on a pump until I need it for other things in addition to clamping. So, I'll be watching for it on your storefront. |
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The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 06:52 PM » |
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Vacuum pumps are designer to run continuously and they are incredibly quiet. Most pancake compressors are neither and the venturi needs a constant source of air flowing thru it. I have a venturi setup and a vacuum pump setup. The venturi will never be used again. I am not trying to promote any of my videos on youtube but if you search for plhalle you might get an idea or two and really hear how quiet the pumps are.
You can pick up a cheap vacuum pump (rebuilt) from Joewoodworker.com for less than $110 plus shipping.
Just 2 cents from experience.
Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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fshanno
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Location: Silsbee TX Member Since: Sep 2007
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2012, 10:37 AM » |
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Vacuum pumps are designer to run continuously and they are incredibly quiet. Most pancake compressors are neither and the venturi needs a constant source of air flowing thru it. I have a venturi setup and a vacuum pump setup. The venturi will never be used again. I am not trying to promote any of my videos on youtube but if you search for plhalle you might get an idea or two and really hear how quiet the pumps are.
You can pick up a cheap vacuum pump (rebuilt) from Joewoodworker.com for less than $110 plus shipping.
Just 2 cents from experience.
Peter
Okay, $100 is more than a penny but not outrageous. After doing more research and watching (and listening to) more clips it may be that the sound of the a small vacuum pump is less annoying than the hiss of the venturi, let alone the compressor. As far as the multi-position units go Virutex has a unit that is very similar to the Schmalz that is only $250. Doesn't have the quick connect for different heads.  Virutex Vacuum Clamp UnitI can make a plywood version with the same basic design as the Schmalz and the Virutex, tilt and twist, for a lot less. There is another thread in this forum by bijeshj that shows a very nice system that uses pipe and cross clamps but the plywood option will be cheaper even than that one. So here's how it shakes out, venturi vs. pump. Couldn't find a source for the configurable square pads that didn't have a venturi in it. It could be that different vendors, Virutex, Schmalz, V-Clamp, are all sourcing this from the same Asian plastics molder. Who knows. Anyway, if I go with the pump the only realistic option is to use HDPE panels and gasket tape. Venturi - $140 I put the compressor in a different room. I found that Lee Valley carries the V-Clamp stuff. To set up two V-Clamp pads with the little switch will cost me $140 plus shipping. Has the configurable pad which is way better than peel and stick tape. Vacuum Pump - $210 From Joe Woodworker Veneer Supply. Rebuilt pump, foot pedal, two HDPE clamping pads which use the peel and stick gasket tape. Plus I could go on to do some small vacuum press stuff later on. Which is the best option? One thing for sure, I used to be very disappointed that Festool wasn't making the VAC-SYS available in the US. As is stands now, after researching this, there is about zero chance I would buy it even if it were. |
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The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.
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bijeshj
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2012, 01:09 PM » |
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Fshanno: I looked at the schmalz clamps a couple of years ago and ended up with what I build. cost was an issue but the main consideration was flexibility. With the pipe and cross clamp design - can get 360 regress and also height adjustment. Plus I can easily change heads to accommodate various sizes of clamping heads.
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Alan m
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2012, 01:56 PM » |
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have you a link to that thread
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now
ts 55+2 1400 rails+ 1 lr32 1400 rail, domino+assortment systainer+ domiplate, ct 22 with boom arm+home made thien baffel, lr32 set, rotex 150, home made MFT,home made work center, 6 t locs for other tools, of2000 , ro 90, mft 800, trion , ls 130
wish list
of 1400, MFT 3,, even more t locs for other tools
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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fshanno
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Location: Silsbee TX Member Since: Sep 2007
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2012, 03:35 PM » |
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Fshanno: I looked at the schmalz clamps a couple of years ago and ended up with what I build. cost was an issue but the main consideration was flexibility. With the pipe and cross clamp design - can get 360 regress and also height adjustment. Plus I can easily change heads to accommodate various sizes of clamping heads.
I'll be able to change out the heads but height adjustment, hadn't thought about that. Yours is a snap for that. Don't really know how I could achieve that with plywood. You have a vacuum pump right? Would even consider the venturi system? |
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The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.
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bijeshj
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2012, 06:04 PM » |
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Fshanno: I looked at the schmalz clamps a couple of years ago and ended up with what I build. cost was an issue but the main consideration was flexibility. With the pipe and cross clamp design - can get 360 regress and also height adjustment. Plus I can easily change heads to accommodate various sizes of clamping heads.
I'll be able to change out the heads but height adjustment, hadn't thought about that. Yours is a snap for that. Don't really know how I could achieve that with plywood. You have a vacuum pump right? Would even consider the venturi system? I have the vacuum pump from joe w. I did not consider the Venturi due to the noise from the compressor and at the clamping head + I can use the foot switch to turn the pump on or off with minimal delay. I can also insert a vacuum break foot switch if needed as well. |
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junk
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Location: Erin, Ontario Member Since: Sep 2008
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2012, 06:16 PM » |
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I did this thread in 2010 on my version of a Vacuum Clamp. Still works great with no real issues except the hissing from the venturi. It will handle a 24 x 30 panel with ease vertical or horizontal. Makes edge banding and domino's a breeze. It might be of some help to you. If you went to convert from venturi pad to vacuum pad just plug the exit hole. http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/vac-sys-my-version/msg122161/#msg122161John |
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Alan m
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2012, 06:36 PM » |
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i wonder if you could put a hose into the exit port and pipe the exit air out side.
i presume the noise is the air expanding as it comes outs the hole.
you are making me really want a vac system
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now
ts 55+2 1400 rails+ 1 lr32 1400 rail, domino+assortment systainer+ domiplate, ct 22 with boom arm+home made thien baffel, lr32 set, rotex 150, home made MFT,home made work center, 6 t locs for other tools, of2000 , ro 90, mft 800, trion , ls 130
wish list
of 1400, MFT 3,, even more t locs for other tools
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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fshanno
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Location: Silsbee TX Member Since: Sep 2007
Posts: 582
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2012, 07:18 PM » |
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Sweet! How did I miss that carvers' clamp at Lee Valley? There's a video on the V-Clamp site about holding large pieces. They say that "rotational movement can be and issue" and "large pieces will require more than one clamp". But this hasn't been your experience? What about this plugging the exit hole? How is that accomplished? Did you ever switch over to a vac pump or are you still on your compressor? |
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The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.
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junk
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Location: Erin, Ontario Member Since: Sep 2008
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 08:43 PM » |
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No problem so far with the larger pieces, I have clamped 24" x 48" pcs and haven't had one come loose, just make sure the pressure is up and the gasket properly seated. You can break the seal if you really try with the larger pieces but not with normal use. I have another pad and I mount the 2 of them to my MFT's when I work with longer pieces. Really helps when your processing a lot of pieces. If you want to use a vacuum pump a piece of round toothpick seals the hole quite nicely, not sophisticated but effective. I'm just in the process of acquiring a Joe Woodworker type vacuum pump system that can be hooked up to the pad but its main purpose will be for veneering.
John
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b_m_hart
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Location: SF, CA Member Since: May 2008
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2012, 01:23 AM » |
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$2k just to say 'hi' for a vacuum clamp head and pump seems - well, dare I say it? Spendy.
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TS 55 EQ, ETS 150/5, RO 150 FEQ, OF 1010 EQ, DF 500 Q, C12, CT Midi, OF 2200 EB, MFT/3s, DTS 400 EQ, parallel guides, and seemingly growing by the day...
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