Author Topic: Shaper Origin deliveries?  (Read 5145 times)

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Offline mcooley

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Shaper Origin deliveries?
« on: November 06, 2017, 05:15 PM »
Anyone get their Shaper CNC routers delivered? Curious about first impressions and possible short-term and long-term issues etc.

Thanks

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 10:13 PM »
I was wondering the same thing.  I figured that we'd be seeing people posting stuff about receiving their Shaper Origins, but I haven't seen anything yet.  Am I just not looking in the right place??? [blink]

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2185
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 02:30 PM »
They are shipping but not that many have gone out so far.  The shaper community has a few actually active.  I am in batch 1 having ordered about 3 weeks after they announced and am anxiously awaiting a shipping notice!


Offline Woodkrafts

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 10:25 AM »
Me too. Waiting for the second batch. Will apparently ship in January.
Love to see one in action.

Offline bnaboatbuilder

  • Posts: 183
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2017, 11:29 AM »
Interested in real world feedback as well. No videos yet in the wild which are not produced or sponsored by Shaper.

Haven't purchased one but the website stays open for me daily as a reminder, since Nov 27th is the next price increase.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 05:01 PM by bnaboatbuilder »
- John

Offline Aclaw

  • Posts: 64
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 11:37 AM »
I received mine last Wednesday, and was very impressed with the shipping and double boxing.  It seems to have arrived intact, but I hope to get into it this extended weekend for some potential gift making.  I will report back once I get to use it.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 02:07 PM »
Who made the spindle? Did Festool have anything to do with the spindle or only the Systainer?

Offline rst

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 02:22 PM »
The router is Festool produced according to their marketing.  The systainer is just a logical progression.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 02:23 PM »
@Michael Kellough the spindle is made by Festool.

Peter

Offline ali

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 03:47 PM »
My guess this will be branded a Festool Shaper in Europe. Watching with great interest

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 83
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 04:02 PM »
@Aclaw - Have you had a chance to actually use it? How much tape do they include? How has it performed?

Some other easy questions:

- What collets are included? Can I use the collets from my OF1400 since I've heard they're using a Festool router?

- What have you thought of the dust collection so far? I prefer using downcut spiral bits in my plywood as they leave a laser finish on the surface, but they tend to impact dust. Curious if the DC is strong enough to pull it out.

- What is the max plunge depth?

- When you go off course, has it "pulled out" as designed and is the workpiece still recoverable?

I got out of line on the pre-order at $1699 (I had one referral bonus) as I had to put a down payment on a house and was scrounging the couch cushions, but might be willing to get back in line if they'd offer to honor that original price.

Offline bnaboatbuilder

  • Posts: 183
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 04:11 PM »
Watching a Shaper demo video while ago with the CEO, he said the Festool 1/4" and 8mm collets can be used with their spindle. Most likely just the 1/4' included though.

First of three instructional videos:


- What collets are included? Can I use the collets from my OF1400 since I've heard they're using a Festool router?

- John

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 83
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 04:18 PM »
Thanks, watching the video now.

Bummed about the price of tape: $18 for 150 foot roll. Due to the way you have to layer the tape, that entire roll of 150 feet of tape will only last through 1.5 sheets of 4x8 plywood according to Origin.

That means you're looking at about $12 in JUST tape costs for each full sheet of plywood - notwithstanding the cost of router bits which we all know can be significant.

Bummer.

Offline Aclaw

  • Posts: 64
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 04:43 PM »
@ryanjg117  I am also disappointed in the two rolls of tape. I'm going to try to make some type of reusable jig with a cutout.  I'm nervous about what if this company goes under and I'm out of tape then I'm screwed.  Maybe I can engrave the tape dimensions and style into a spoilboard jig or something similar. 

Basically its a Festool 700 motor and accepts those collets.  I haven't used mine at all (haven't even taken the machine out of the systainer)  Hope to this upcoming weekend though.  Really going to see if the USB interface is as easy as portrayed.

Offline bnaboatbuilder

  • Posts: 183
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 04:48 PM »
The tape has made me start thinking about other ways of doing all this than just covering a sheet.

If you're working with smaller pieces of precut wood, a few square feet or more, example like cutting boards or planks of real wood, then a permanent fixture table with tape on it would be convenient. Have an actual workpiece snuggle into and flush with the fixture/tape/table top idea similar to a spoil board. The tape is of no use directly under the router from everything I see but instead tape further out so the camera can view it for reference. For me there are so many things I could make and design where a full sheet concept is irrelevant.

Can a spray painted template be used when the pattern on a work piece doesn't matter? It seems there will have to be some creative ways of overcoming the excessive amount of Shaper tape that will be needed. Will there be 3rd party tape or is it intellectual property tape? What if the pattern could be projected onto the surface by electronic means instead of physical tape. To me the ideas will grow rapidly if the tape is a hurdle.

Thanks, watching the video now.

Bummed about the price of tape: $18 for 150 foot roll. Due to the way you have to layer the tape, that entire roll of 150 feet of tape will only last through 1.5 sheets of 4x8 plywood according to Origin.

That means you're looking at about $12 in JUST tape costs for each full sheet of plywood - notwithstanding the cost of router bits which we all know can be significant.

Bummer.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 04:51 PM by bnaboatbuilder »
- John

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 05:37 PM »
I doubt Shaper is in the tape manufacturing business. If they sub it out to someone else you just need that someone to keep it in production.

Offline neilc

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 05:39 PM »
Ryan - IF you are on the waiting list with an order you can join the Shaper community - http://community.shapertools.com - as they are starting to discuss jigs, techniques, the F360 Plugin, etc. 

I think you have to have a tool on order to participate.

Neil
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 07:21 PM by neilc »

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 83
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 05:39 PM »
I think the spoilerboard concept is a good once, and yes, you could re-use the tape by just putting it on an adjacent work surface of the same height, but that only works if all your workpieces are the same thickness and highly repeatable.

What I'm starting to discover is Shaper is really only a good solution for smaller work. If you're cutting full sheets all day long, the tape is going to kill you.

Moot point as they didn't offer to honor my previous referral discount, nor the second-batch price.

Guess I'll just build a machine for about $1,000 more.

Offline neilc

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2017, 05:41 PM »
@Aclaw  - when did you place your order?  Curious as to how far along they are with fulfillment -

Offline Svar

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2017, 05:48 PM »
I think the spoilerboard concept is a good once, and yes, you could re-use the tape by just putting it on an adjacent work surface of the same height, but that only works if all your workpieces are the same thickness and highly repeatable.
I'm sure you can simply enter depth of cut as your material +/- the offset.

I'm actually surprised they went with tape instead of some reusable targets. Moreover, in these days of SfM technology even those are not needed. You can orient your machine just by analyzing surrounding static objects (on the second thought processing time will be limiting).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 05:50 PM by Svar »

Offline Aclaw

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2017, 05:57 PM »
@Aclaw  - when did you place your order?  Curious as to how far along they are with fulfillment -

@neilc I ordered mine on August 23, 2016

Offline Timtool

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 02:24 AM »
I think the spoilerboard concept is a good once, and yes, you could re-use the tape by just putting it on an adjacent work surface of the same height, but that only works if all your workpieces are the same thickness and highly repeatable.

What I'm starting to discover is Shaper is really only a good solution for smaller work. If you're cutting full sheets all day long, the tape is going to kill you.

Moot point as they didn't offer to honor my previous referral discount, nor the second-batch price.

Guess I'll just build a machine for about $1,000 more.

That it was for smaller occasional work was kinda obvious to me since the day I saw it, with something of this power capacity, to cut full sheets you're looking at literally hours spent guiding that thing by hand, and I assume most will only be able to do this on the floor on their knees.
When you factor in the price of the tape and the time spent guiding it, then I don't know if a professional user can justify using this for production at all vs outsourcing.
I can see though that it could really shine in doing very limited cnc work on custom projects, or for non professional users.
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2017, 08:04 AM »
I think the spoilerboard concept is a good once, and yes, you could re-use the tape by just putting it on an adjacent work surface of the same height, but that only works if all your workpieces are the same thickness and highly repeatable.

What I'm starting to discover is Shaper is really only a good solution for smaller work. If you're cutting full sheets all day long, the tape is going to kill you.

Moot point as they didn't offer to honor my previous referral discount, nor the second-batch price.

Guess I'll just build a machine for about $1,000 more.

That it was for smaller occasional work was kinda obvious to me since the day I saw it, with something of this power capacity, to cut full sheets you're looking at literally hours spent guiding that thing by hand, and I assume most will only be able to do this on the floor on their knees.
When you factor in the price of the tape and the time spent guiding it, then I don't know if a professional user can justify using this for production at all vs outsourcing.
I can see though that it could really shine in doing very limited cnc work on custom projects, or for non professional users.

As a hobbyist with no space for a proper CNC this machine appeals to me. I could even use it to build one of those MFSC that some clever guy came up with. . . [wink]

Offline bnaboatbuilder

  • Posts: 183
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2017, 09:57 AM »
I for one have no delusion that the Shaper is a replacement for a full CNC table setup. It's not a replacement. It should be looked at as a complimentary method but also a method for ideas, prototyping, one-offs, and so much more. The strength of the Shaper and it's appeal is it's portability, small storage, no footprint in the shop, being able to CNC on a workpiece which can't be brought to a full CNC table.

Sure I'd love to have a full CNC table for both wood and plasma cutting. But that is not going to happen. What the shaper would allow is performing creative CNC work when I want and where I want. I could make templets from MDF to be used for plasma cut pieces, much quicker than a bandsaw and spindle sander.

What goes through my head are the projects just from the last 2 years where I wish I had a Shaper and how much easier something would have been, or I wouldn't have had to outsource something.
- John

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2017, 10:22 AM »
I for one have no delusion that the Shaper is a replacement for a full CNC table setup. It's not a replacement. It should be looked at as a complimentary method but also a method for ideas, prototyping, one-offs, and so much more. The strength of the Shaper and it's appeal is it's portability, small storage, no footprint in the shop, being able to CNC on a workpiece which can't be brought to a full CNC table.

Sure I'd love to have a full CNC table for both wood and plasma cutting. But that is not going to happen. What the shaper would allow is performing creative CNC work when I want and where I want. I could make templets from MDF to be used for plasma cut pieces, much quicker than a bandsaw and spindle sander.

What goes through my head are the projects just from the last 2 years where I wish I had a Shaper and how much easier something would have been, or I wouldn't have had to outsource something.

Please elaborate.

Offline bnaboatbuilder

  • Posts: 183
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2017, 10:46 AM »
not my video but you get the idea:

I love my Hypertherm 30xp but hand cutting curves is not very accurate or aesthetically pleasing. One off or repetitive cuts are better with templets.

I for one have no delusion that the Shaper is a replacement for a full CNC table setup. It's not a replacement. It should be looked at as a complimentary method but also a method for ideas, prototyping, one-offs, and so much more. The strength of the Shaper and it's appeal is it's portability, small storage, no footprint in the shop, being able to CNC on a workpiece which can't be brought to a full CNC table.

Sure I'd love to have a full CNC table for both wood and plasma cutting. But that is not going to happen. What the shaper would allow is performing creative CNC work when I want and where I want. I could make templets from MDF to be used for plasma cut pieces, much quicker than a bandsaw and spindle sander.

What goes through my head are the projects just from the last 2 years where I wish I had a Shaper and how much easier something would have been, or I wouldn't have had to outsource something.

Please elaborate.
- John

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3083
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2017, 10:53 AM »
Thanks for the video! I hoped that's what you meant but I had just assumed the wooden template would burn.

Offline Timtool

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2017, 01:06 PM »
As a hobbyist with no space for a proper CNC this machine appeals to me. I could even use it to build one of those MFSC that some clever guy came up with. . . [wink]
That would be one great use for the shaper, a one off project where a handful of parts are ideally made by CNC. I wouldn't cut out the whole project though, most parts are square and would take ages to cut by a shaper, vs seconds with a table saw.
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline Z48LT1

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2017, 02:51 PM »
I found this YouTube which shows a project that uses an entire 4 x 8 sheet of plywood and which would likely only be amenable to a conventional CNC machine as an alternative.  The author, on his website, states he spent 20 hours building the stool and learning how to use the tool. 



IMO, the guy didn't waste any money.  Of course, since I'm waiting for mine, I may be biased.

Cheers - Gary
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 02:54 PM by Z48LT1 »

Offline oneeyesquare

  • Posts: 41
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2017, 05:59 PM »
  I'm pre-ordered for the second run of them. I'm looking at it through the matrix of on site cnc capabilities, jig making, much cooler custom workbenches, etc, etc. I'm thinking I can find uses for it.
 Moderately concerned about the tape. If I use it on the jobsite, it incurs a per-use set up fee. At the very least, the cost of a fresh roll of tape.
 

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2017, 06:32 PM »
The guys who came up with the Shaper are pretty amazing.  I would venture a guess that they wisely patented everything they could including the design on the tape.  You will have to pay to play just like inkjet printers.

I am not criticizing them.  I am applauding their business acumen.

Peter

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline antss

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2017, 07:10 PM »
I'm with Tim on this.  I can't see how many professionals will justify the expense of owning and using this.  While the stool above is darn clever, I don't see anyone lining up to pay $2100 for one. That's what it'd need to sell for to cover a decent shop rate plus materials given the stated time invested. And that doesn't really leave room for a profit.

If successful, these are going to land in shops like Glide's because they touch a nerve rather than fill a direct need.  I don't think they'll be used near as much as people who buy them think they will be.

As for the tape - these guys are geniuses. Recurring Monthly Revenue is the name of the game.  And they have the only game in town.  Another genius move - create a monopoly.

Offline Svar

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2017, 08:37 PM »
I can't see how many professionals will justify the expense of owning and using this.
I don't think anyone was under impression that Origin was made for mass market. It's a niche product, just like many other. What's the problem?

Offline antss

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2017, 10:29 PM »
There's  a problem with the Origin ?   I haven't heard of anything from the early reports, but I don't follow it that close.

Offline bnaboatbuilder

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2017, 10:58 PM »
Still no user videos or real world reviews with it out for a month now. Somewhat surprised.
- John

Offline Cheese

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2017, 11:12 PM »
Still no user videos or real world reviews with it out for a month now. Somewhat surprised.

When it comes to governmental agencies...no news is good news.

When it comes to marketing platforms...no news is bad news. 🎄

Offline Stoli

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2017, 10:34 AM »
Mine arrived just before Christmas. I need to carve out some time away from family to try it out.
DF500; OF1400; ETS125; CXS; installer Kit;  Kapex

Offline greg mann

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2017, 12:50 PM »
Mine arrived just before Christmas. I need to carve out some time away from family to try it out.

You can actually use it to carve out time? [poke]
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Stoli

  • Posts: 351
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2017, 01:23 PM »
First project might be a clock...
DF500; OF1400; ETS125; CXS; installer Kit;  Kapex

Offline zapdafish

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Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2017, 05:45 PM »
I ordered during phase 2 and just got my shipping notification   [big grin]
CT22, TS55, Kapex, RO150, Domino, RS 2 E

Offline Stoli

  • Posts: 351
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2017, 08:58 AM »
I had some time to play with my shaper origin, and so far I am pleased.

I am in the process of making a cabinet to store multiple HF small parts bins, ala adam savage and more recently bob Claggett from “I like to make stuff”. I wanted the dividers to have a cutout that matched the handles to make grabbing the bins easier.

It took me more time to design the shape in fusion 360 than it did to cut it out of mdf, which I then used as a template for the already cutout dividers. The design is not complicated (rectangular inset with 2x 5mm fillets and 2x 20mm fillets), but I need more fusion experience. Once designed, the origin addin to fusion created the svg, which was the placed on the flash drive.

I had some trouble aligning the drawing with the edge of the mdf, but I chalk this up to lack of experience. I am also not completely bought in to the concept of cutting all the parts out with the origin yet from a large piece of plywood - I would rather make templates and revert to known techniques;  this may change over time, but would end up using more shaper tape.

More to come.
DF500; OF1400; ETS125; CXS; installer Kit;  Kapex

Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 83
Re: Shaper Origin deliveries?
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2017, 11:45 PM »
I'm actually surprised they went with tape instead of some reusable targets. Moreover, in these days of SfM technology even those are not needed. You can orient your machine just by analyzing surrounding static objects (on the second thought processing time will be limiting).

This is actually a really good point that I've been thinking about... The tape is really unnecessary from a technological standpoint. Nowadays, vision systems are capable of detecting the most nuanced changes in contrast. A rudimentary example would be a computer mouse I just purchased for my mother this Christmas - a Logitech Anywhere MX 2 laptop mouse. A tiny thing, yet it is capable of working on virtually any surface material including glass... Which is pretty amazing when you consider it's a $40 device.

A smarter implementation would have been a vision system capable of tracking variations in constrast -- I'm thinking of the veneer patterns of birch ply or similar. Getting it to work on a flat material like MDF would be a bigger challenge I suppose. That's where re-usable target could come into play, defining the four corners of your stock.

I feel as though something like this could be right around the corner, which makes me hesitant to buy something like the Shaper right now. But the fancy systainer presentation, in the words of Moana, "calls to me."
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 11:49 PM by ryanjg117 »