Author Topic: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.  (Read 25949 times)

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Offline ThePoplarShop

  • Posts: 40
TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« on: March 29, 2017, 08:06 PM »
I wanted to share a video I made showing the brilliance of @TSO Products GRS-16 guide rail square.

I know this product has been talked about on the FOG in the past.  But for anyone who is new or not familiar with the results the
GRS-16 can give someone using a track saw hopefully this video will help.




Full disclosure.  TSO Products sent me the GRS-16 to review.  THANKS HANS !   It's a fantastic accessory.  I haven't taken it off my 55" rail since I received it.   I'm calling it a must have accessory for track saw users.   

Take care,
Eric

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline overanalyze

  • Posts: 410
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2017, 09:55 PM »
Nice video!

Offline festoolnoobie

  • Posts: 2
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 01:19 PM »
Just received my GRS-16 this week and on the first cut perfectly square just as seen in the video.  Great product - highly recommended for those potentially sitting on the fence.  I don't see myself taking this off the rail very often as I'll use it that much.   

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1421
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 01:32 PM »
@TSO Products , any plans to introduce guide rail protractor? Same clip-on mechanism but adjustable angle?

Offline DrD

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 01:59 PM »
Thanks Eric @erock for another simple yet informative video. 

I was on the fence - no pun intended - about this because I have several other options that I'm currently using, but the ease of use without a bunch of fiddling may push me over. 

Now, I'm just waiting to see what gizmos @TSO_Products  are adding to their next iteration, and what the cost will be.
KS12 EB Kapex with Delta Folding Table & FastCap Best Fence; TS75 EQ with Parallel Guide Rail Set (FS-PA 495717 & FS-PA-VL 495718) and FS 800/2, 1080/2, 1400/2 LR32, 1400/2, 1900/2 Guide Rails, and Betterly SLC23 Straight Line Connector; DF500 Q with Assortment Systainer; OF1010 EQ with Fine Adjuster for Guide Stop, WA-OF Angle Arm, UP-OF Edging Plate and SF-OF Chip Deflector (486242); OF1400 EQ with OF1400 Dust Hood x 2, OF 1400  Edge Guide x 2, OF 1400  Guide Stop; LR32 Set; PSB399 EQ; EHL65 E; RAS115.04 E; RS2 E; ETS150/3 EQ; RO150 FEQ; Hand Sanding Block Set; CT26 with assortment of AS and Non-AS Hoses; MFT/3 Table x2; SysLite; Assortment of Quick & Screw Clamps, Consumables, Dogs.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2017, 01:07 AM »
@TSO Products , any plans to introduce guide rail protractor? Same clip-on mechanism but adjustable angle?

@Svar - we are very far along with a new tool to enable a tracksaw user to cut any angle between 0 and 360 degrees - as you would expect -  very precisely and repeatably.

We are building up inventory prior to an announcement in  April. Subscribe to our TSO INSIDER  newsletter on our tsoproducts.com to be the first to see details.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2017, 06:55 AM »
I just want to throw into the mix that I recently had the need to cut a lot of 90's and was lucky enough to receive my GRS prior ... it made the work a doddle and I was happier cutting with the TSC/FS/GRS combo than the HKC/FSK.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2017, 09:00 AM »
Hans,  do you have some sort of agreement with Rockler to carry your products?

I ask , because I find the royal blue anodizing a curious color choice for an accessory geared towards Festool.

It looks like a great item .  Looking forward to the angle version.

Offline tms0425

  • Posts: 101
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2017, 10:35 AM »
@TSO Products , any plans to introduce guide rail protractor? Same clip-on mechanism but adjustable angle?

@Svar - we are very far along with a new tool to enable a tracksaw user to cut any angle between 0 and 360 degrees - as you would expect -  very precisely and repeatably.

We are building up inventory prior to an announcement in  April. Subscribe to our TSO INSIDER  newsletter on our tsoproducts.com to be the first to see details.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
Oh, I just placed my order for the GSR-16 Wednesday. Can I defer to get the newer version, assuming it does 90's the same way? Or would it make sense to have both?

Offline festoolnoobie

  • Posts: 2
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2017, 12:17 PM »
@TSO Products , any plans to introduce guide rail protractor? Same clip-on mechanism but adjustable angle?

@Svar - we are very far along with a new tool to enable a tracksaw user to cut any angle between 0 and 360 degrees - as you would expect -  very precisely and repeatably.

We are building up inventory prior to an announcement in  April. Subscribe to our TSO INSIDER  newsletter on our tsoproducts.com to be the first to see details.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Hans, will this capability be retroactively adaptable to the GRS-16?  I just received mine this week and really love it, but would like the ability to cut at angles as well (and hope to not buy a totally different unit).  Thanks ahead of time for any clarifications! Great product.


Offline Bob D.

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2017, 02:12 PM »
@TSO Products , any plans to introduce guide rail protractor? Same clip-on mechanism but adjustable angle?

@Svar - we are very far along with a new tool to enable a tracksaw user to cut any angle between 0 and 360 degrees - as you would expect -  very precisely and repeatably.

We are building up inventory prior to an announcement in  April. Subscribe to our TSO INSIDER  newsletter on our tsoproducts.com to be the first to see details.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Wish I had checked here before I ordered the GRS-16 PE this morning.  [sad]
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Svar

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2017, 02:26 PM »
Wish I had checked here before I ordered the GRS-16 PE this morning.  [sad]

I'm guessing the protractor version will be x3 the cost of GRS-16.

Offline fignewton

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2017, 07:18 AM »
I need to order a PE or the new one to support an on-site Eagle Scout construction project in the next couple of weeks.  I'd really like to know about the angle-version ASAP.  Even if you are awaiting inventory build-up, since it's now April, could you PLEASE let us know what the new product is and what it will likely cost so we can compare to the GRS and PE in order to make a decision.  Thanks.
TS55, MFT3+, OF1400, C12, CT-26, LR-32 system, Domino 500, RO125, MFK 700, Carvex w/ accsy, Sys-roll,  CXS, Kapex, UG with extensions, RO90

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2017, 11:02 PM »
Hans,  do you have some sort of agreement with Rockler to carry your products?

I ask , because I find the royal blue anodizing a curious color choice for an accessory geared towards Festool.

It looks like a great item .  Looking forward to the angle version.
@antss   interesting question with pretty simple answer(s):
1. NO - we don't have any agreement with any retailer and especially not with ine dropped by Festool.
2. Anodizing is a finishing process chosen to protect the bare aluminum against corrosion and to some degree against wear. It also prevent the bare alumunim from rubbing off on your workpiece(s). For our tools it is  purely functional and not cosmetic.
3. Anodizing is performed in a serious of large tanks including one stage which applies the dye to the part. We wanted a color other than BLACK and certainly not RED. For readability of engraving we needed a contrasting color. For production lead-time (turn-around) considerations we needed a color that is in production all the time - BLUE is such a color.
It is possible to have most any custom color but that requires that the dye tank is flushed and refilled with a unique dye such as GREEN. When the production lot is run, the non-standard dye tank is drained again and returned to standard production dye colors. In the case of our friends with RED - that is also a fairly common color. So GREEN is  also possible - but not a good contrast for engraving. It would also cause confusion as to whether this is a FESTOOL brand product and therefore be a candidate for infringement on intellectual property owned by FESTOOL.
- more than you wanted to know. probably some of the same reasons why KREG and BETTERLY are also  using BLUE along with makers of aluminum aerospace hose coupling and more.
4. watch for other finish colors on some of our new components with different requirements.

Glad you asked - the topic has come up before and will again, I expect.
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2017, 11:15 PM »
@TSO Products , any plans to introduce guide rail protractor? Same clip-on mechanism but adjustable angle?

@Svar - we are very far along with a new tool to enable a tracksaw user to cut any angle between 0 and 360 degrees - as you would expect -  very precisely and repeatably.

We are building up inventory prior to an announcement in  April. Subscribe to our TSO INSIDER  newsletter on our tsoproducts.com to be the first to see details.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Wish I had checked here before I ordered the GRS-16 PE this morning.  [sad]

You won't be disappointed with the GRS-16 PE.

Tom

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2017, 11:24 PM »
@TSO Products , any plans to introduce guide rail protractor? Same clip-on mechanism but adjustable angle?

@Svar - we are very far along with a new tool to enable a tracksaw user to cut any angle between 0 and 360 degrees - as you would expect -  very precisely and repeatably.

We are building up inventory prior to an announcement in  April. Subscribe to our TSO INSIDER  newsletter on our tsoproducts.com to be the first to see details.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Wish I had checked here before I ordered the GRS-16 PE this morning.  [sad]

@Bob D.  - thank you your GRS-16 PE  order but let me re-assure you on two points:

1. Our new tool for setting any angle complements but does not replace the GRS-16 for fast and accurate 90 degree cuts.

2. We will refund your entire purchase price including shipping if you discover that you would prefer a different choice from TSo or anyone else. We want you to be completely satisfied - no quibbling.

3. Enjoy your GRS-16 PE now and re-evaluate your needs and tool choice when you see details of our new MTR-18  later this month.

hope that puts you at ease.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2017, 11:32 PM »
Hans,  do you have some sort of agreement with Rockler to carry your products?

I ask , because I find the royal blue anodizing a curious color choice for an accessory geared towards Festool.

It looks like a great item .  Looking forward to the angle version.

In addition to what Hans said I will note that when you see the color in person it is actually a different blue than Rockler or Kreg. Somewhat more muted and less royal but very nice color. 

Seth

Offline Cheese

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2017, 12:22 AM »
It is possible to have most any custom color but that requires that the dye tank is flushed and refilled with a unique dye such as GREEN. When the production lot is run, the non-standard dye tank is drained again and returned to standard production dye colors. In the case of our friends with RED - that is also a fairly common color. So GREEN is  also possible - but not a good contrast for engraving. It would also cause confusion as to whether this is a FESTOOL brand product and therefore be a candidate for infringement on intellectual property owned by FESTOOL.
- more than you wanted to know.

Hey Hans,
Thanks for your simple yet very inclusive explanation of some seemingly small yet large issues that need to be considered in the manufacturing process. If a person has never been exposed to the manufacturing arena, the process may seem simple, yet in order to get product out the door...within budget...on time...within manufacturing tolerances...packaged securely and delivered without damage, is an art. Throw in the potential intellectual property and patent infringement issues that abound and it's a bonus round. The more knowledge that's shared, the smarter we all become.  Thanks Hans

Offline suds

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2017, 10:59 PM »
How is this different from the Qwas square?
MFT's, Kapex, TS 55, Vac, 150 Rotrex, 300 Trion, Domino

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2017, 11:12 PM »
How is this different from the Qwas square?

The TSO GRS-16 is self squaring when you lock it (with the clamp) to the guide rail with the clamp. You do not have to remove any of the anti skid foam from the rail to use it.

Tom

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2017, 12:59 AM »
How is this different from the Qwas square?
@suds  -fair enough question. Most telling that just recently a FOG member offered his QWAS Square and his WP Track Square for sale. I was curious what was behind that so I reached out to the seller. He told me he didn't need them now that he has a GRS-16 from TSO  [big grin]
Both of those earlier products have the same shortcomings and the dissatisfaction with that concept drove us to develop the GRS-16 solution which is now well accepted.

The biggest issue is that the QWAS concept is not itself a square - it requires a precision Triangle or similar reference square to compensate for the slop between the Track t-slot and the hex bolts in addition to the slop for bolt clearance in the square.
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline joiner1970

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2017, 02:31 PM »
im sure someone asked this but ive not seen the answer, how much rail space does the square take up ? in other words can you still use a 1400 to crosscut an 8 x 4 sheet?

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1983
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2017, 08:23 PM »
im sure someone asked this but ive not seen the answer, how much rail space does the square take up ? in other words can you still use a 1400 to crosscut an 8 x 4 sheet?

I don't have mine in front of me but I will guess about 5-6". So the 1400 would be "shy by a bit for crosscutting.  I use the larger rail (1900) for this.

Cheers. Bryan.


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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2017, 11:25 AM »
Yes, more than the 1400 rail would be needed to cut 48" with the GRS. At least without plunge cutting.

Seth

Offline joiner1970

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2017, 04:40 PM »
Im sure I normally plunge a bit anyway when using a 1400 on a 4ft cut. Most of the time if using the square Id be cutting shelves and carcase sides which would only be 600mm wide anyway so not really a problem.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2017, 04:49 PM »
Hans, why are the holes (looks like 1/4-20) tapped in the
GRS16-PE and do these tapped holes appear on the GRS16?

Is something planned that will attach using these holes to the GRS.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Corwin

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2017, 05:07 PM »
Hans, why are the holes (looks like 1/4-20) tapped in the
GRS16-PE and do these tapped holes appear on the GRS16?

Is something planned that will attach using these holes to the GRS.

Here's a prior responce
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Bob D.

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2017, 11:19 PM »
Hans, why are the holes (looks like 1/4-20) tapped in the
GRS16-PE and do these tapped holes appear on the GRS16?

Is something planned that will attach using these holes to the GRS.

Here's a prior responce

Thanks, I missed that whole thread somehow.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline kdzito

  • Posts: 322
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2017, 09:54 AM »
I ordered the GRS-16PE on Saturday night.  Thanks Hans!

BTW I met you at Festool Connect last September. 
Building one day at a time.

Offline woodvkk

  • Posts: 90
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2017, 10:44 AM »


What is the workbench being used in the video?

 
I wanted to share a video I made showing the brilliance of @TSO Products GRS-16 guide rail square.

I know this product has been talked about on the FOG in the past.  But for anyone who is new or not familiar with the results the
GRS-16 can give someone using a track saw hopefully this video will help.




Full disclosure.  TSO Products sent me the GRS-16 to review.  THANKS HANS !   It's a fantastic accessory.  I haven't taken it off my 55" rail since I received it.   I'm calling it a must have accessory for track saw users.   

Take care,
Eric

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1183
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2017, 10:49 AM »
-Raj

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online copcarcollector

  • Posts: 1429
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2017, 02:20 PM »
What is the workbench being used in the video?

The black bench with dog holes is the Kreg Mobile Project Center

http://www.toolnut.com/kreg-kws1000-mobile-project-center.html


Offline supimeister

  • Posts: 78
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2017, 10:17 PM »
@TSO Products can you divulge additional details on the GRS16 accessories that you are working on - what additional functionality are you hoping to provide via the accessory?

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2017, 11:22 PM »

@supimeister  - see reply  # 296 on the Thread about the original GRS-16 Post.
We will introduce an accessory for the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE GUide Rail Squares which wwill permit you th not only square up the rail to the workpiece but simultaneously set the edge distance from the left side (call it a parallel guide accessory).

It will be designed to be usable at each end of a longer cut using the GRS-16 PE to which this accessory will also  fit (designed to face in the opposite direction as well).

Putting the adapter holes in the production GRS-16 series "leaked" this piece of marketing information  but "we cannot tell a lie" - so we patiently hear the question and answer it too.  Too bad we're still using "old technology" where have to complete a design, prototype, Beta test it, go back and improve what comes up short, test some more,... finally get ready to launch production and eventually start shipping. That's why it will ship after Labor Day as far as we can see right now.

With the MTR-18 and PTR-18  Triangles in production and shipping now, we can turn our full attention to completing this GRS-16 accessory.
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com
 
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline supimeister

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2017, 11:26 PM »
Ah, I totally missed that post - thanks for your gracious and speedy response!

Offline SS Teach

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2017, 06:32 PM »
After seeing the video mine is in the mail as I post this.
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Offline ben_r_

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2017, 11:14 AM »
Did you guys see the custom made green versions?


Apparently the guy just ordered them pre-anodized and had them done green somewhere else.


I think Id prefer to have one done clear (silver). I think it would match the rail nicely.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline tazprime38

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2017, 05:37 PM »

@supimeister  - see reply  # 296 on the Thread about the original GRS-16 Post.
We will introduce an accessory for the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE GUide Rail Squares which wwill permit you th not only square up the rail to the workpiece but simultaneously set the edge distance from the left side (call it a parallel guide accessory).

It will be designed to be usable at each end of a longer cut using the GRS-16 PE to which this accessory will also  fit (designed to face in the opposite direction as well).

Putting the adapter holes in the production GRS-16 series "leaked" this piece of marketing information  but "we cannot tell a lie" - so we patiently hear the question and answer it too.  Too bad we're still using "old technology" where have to complete a design, prototype, Beta test it, go back and improve what comes up short, test some more,... finally get ready to launch production and eventually start shipping. That's why it will ship after Labor Day as far as we can see right now.

With the MTR-18 and PTR-18  Triangles in production and shipping now, we can turn our full attention to completing this GRS-16 accessory.
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Hi Hans, hope you are welĺ.

Regarding your pending parallel guide attachment , will this make my festool parallel guides obselete enabling me to sell them off?

Tariq

@TSO Products

<<EDIT:  inserted mention so that it would be more visible to TSO - Peter Halle - Moderator>>
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 06:03 PM by Peter Halle »

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2017, 04:53 PM »
@tazprime38  - good question Tariq. You'll have to make that judgment when you see what the accessory we are working on  can do for you. Our accessory product is still in the development phase. We are more anxious even than you may be. Thank you for your continuing interest. For some reason did not see your post until just now.

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline SoZo

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2017, 11:36 PM »

@supimeister  - see reply  # 296 on the Thread about the original GRS-16 Post.
We will introduce an accessory for the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE GUide Rail Squares which wwill permit you th not only square up the rail to the workpiece but simultaneously set the edge distance from the left side (call it a parallel guide accessory).

It will be designed to be usable at each end of a longer cut using the GRS-16 PE to which this accessory will also  fit (designed to face in the opposite direction as well).

Putting the adapter holes in the production GRS-16 series "leaked" this piece of marketing information  but "we cannot tell a lie" - so we patiently hear the question and answer it too.  Too bad we're still using "old technology" where have to complete a design, prototype, Beta test it, go back and improve what comes up short, test some more,... finally get ready to launch production and eventually start shipping. That's why it will ship after Labor Day as far as we can see right now.

With the MTR-18 and PTR-18  Triangles in production and shipping now, we can turn our full attention to completing this GRS-16 accessory.
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Was this new parallel guide idea binned? I don't see it on your site?  Sorry. Just got to the bit about releasing after Labor Day. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with  [smile]
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 11:40 PM by SoZo »

Offline Lemwise

  • Posts: 262
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2017, 07:37 PM »
Years ago I made a big 75x100cm speed square out of birch plywood. I lay the track against it and I have a perfect square cut every time. It took me 10 minutes to make if I recall correctly.

Offline tazprime38

  • Posts: 245
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2017, 06:42 AM »
@tazprime38  - good question Tariq. You'll have to make that judgment when you see what the accessory we are working on  can do for you. Our accessory product is still in the development phase. We are more anxious even than you may be. Thank you for your continuing interest. For some reason did not see your post until just now.

Hans

Hi Hans

Another question comes to mind, will the psrallel guide attachment allow for narrow rips, ie thin strips smaller in width to the guide rail?
Tariq

@TSO Products

Offline wpz

  • Posts: 11
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2018, 08:15 PM »

@supimeister  - see reply  # 296 on the Thread about the original GRS-16 Post.
We will introduce an accessory for the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE GUide Rail Squares which wwill permit you th not only square up the rail to the workpiece but simultaneously set the edge distance from the left side (call it a parallel guide accessory).

It will be designed to be usable at each end of a longer cut using the GRS-16 PE to which this accessory will also  fit (designed to face in the opposite direction as well).

Putting the adapter holes in the production GRS-16 series "leaked" this piece of marketing information  but "we cannot tell a lie" - so we patiently hear the question and answer it too.  Too bad we're still using "old technology" where have to complete a design, prototype, Beta test it, go back and improve what comes up short, test some more,... finally get ready to launch production and eventually start shipping. That's why it will ship after Labor Day as far as we can see right now.

With the MTR-18 and PTR-18  Triangles in production and shipping now, we can turn our full attention to completing this GRS-16 accessory.
Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Decided to try and make my own GRS-16 and GRS-16PE parallel guides today with some Incra track, the Seneca parallel guides and some Festool knobs.
It works pretty well, only drawback I found so far is that the smallest width you can set is 410mm.
The tracks are also a bit long now, I think I will shorten them to about 1250mm as the standard width of plywood panels is 1220mm here in Europe.

here are the pictures:
278970-0278972-1278974-2278976-3278978-4278980-5278982-6278984-7278986-8278988-9278990-10278992-11278994-12278996-13278998-14

Offline tomp

  • Posts: 45
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2018, 08:30 PM »
Just a thought - with the GRS-16 setting the rail perpendicular to the edge, why are two parallel guides needed?  This is my adaptation of a different brand, same basic principle.

Offline wpz

  • Posts: 11
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2018, 08:36 PM »
For a short rail it is probably not necessary, but I also have a 3m rail and with such long cuts I think it might increase the accuracy.

P

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2018, 08:54 PM »
For a short rail it is probably not necessary, but I also have a 3m rail and with such long cuts I think it might increase the accuracy.

P

I am under the impression that you can clamp the guide rail on the other end once the square is set in the place on one end. Shouldn't that clamping keep the accuracy as well as maintain a square setting on a long board?

My intention is to use the guard rail square (if I decide to buy it) for long boards (anything under 4' can  be handled with ease on my tablesaw), but if two squares are indeed required, I don't think I would give any further thought to this method.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2018, 09:20 PM »
@wpz - you have the right concept in mind. Our production tool is designed to cover the entire range from the narrowest stock  all the way across the width of a full sheet and handle material thicknesses down to 12mm in a narrow strip underneath the guide rail.

@tomp – good point you make.
 @wpz points out, that will probably work on shorter length cuts. We expect customers will want all the repeatability and accuracy they can achieve. A pair of flip-stop rails will make that possible. We’ll see what customers report.
Your two posts will probably net us some fresh inquiries: “. . . are we there yet? “ with the new product?
We’re going into BETA Testing with our parallel guide as I write this. Subscribers to our TSO INSIDER newsletter will be the first to hear when it becomes available.

@ChuckM – you’re correct that clamping in the guide rail t-slot will lock down the far end of the guide rail once it’s positioned. But if you have a sliding table saw supporting the long workpiece throughout the cutting operation, we won’t surpass that.

To stay aabreast of our developments, you can subscribe to YOUR TSO INSIDER on the bottom of our web page using this link:
https://tsoproducts.com/

We appreciate the dialog with you here on the FOG.
Thank you for posting the pictures
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2018, 04:37 AM »
The TSO squares look like great products but every video I've watched demonstrating their use shows the initial cut being referenced from an already square edge. How does it work if there is no square edge to reference off?

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2496
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2018, 07:16 AM »
Just lay your rail down and cut a straight edge if you don't have one.  Then index the square off of a known straight edge, whether factory or one you cut.


And welcome to FOG!


Hope this answers your question.


neil

Offline tomp

  • Posts: 45
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2018, 11:05 AM »
Just a thought - with the GRS-16 setting the rail perpendicular to the edge, why are two parallel guides needed?  This is my adaptation of a different brand, same basic principle.

I've had the set-up shown in the photo for a while, and it works well, giving excellent repeatability when making multiple parts. However, particularly in my small shop, it is very cumbersome due to the length of the arm and moving it on and off the cutting table is a hassle. I've recently been thinking that a better (or perhaps more practical would be a better expression) design would be an adjustable stop arm which locates on the end of the part, extends towards the cut line and acts as a stop for the back edge of the rail. The distance from the cut line to the back of the rail is a fixed dimension (for the specific saw anyway), and the scale on the stop could be calibrated so that the zero point is the actual cut line so that no math would be required.

Without getting too fancy, the stop could be butted against the LH edge of the part, quickly fixed in place with a spring clamp and the rail butted against the end. After making the cut, the rail & square can easily be lifted off, the stop moved and the wood moved down to make the next cut. It is one more part (maybe two if you count the spring clamp) but it would seem to be more practical than the rail with a long stop attached when working in a small space.

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 959
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2018, 01:20 AM »
My problem with these T-square things is that the friction tape is fighting me the whole time.

I guess nobody else has that problem.  Everybody else just lays it down and bumps it to the mark and cuts. 

Or is there a trick I'm missing.

The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline koenbro

  • Posts: 56
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2018, 02:31 AM »
My problem with these T-square things is that the friction tape is fighting me the whole time.

I guess nobody else has that problem.  Everybody else just lays it down and bumps it to the mark and cuts. 

Or is there a trick I'm missing.

You are not alone: I have the same problem.


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Offline tomp

  • Posts: 45
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2018, 07:47 AM »
When using the rail with the TSO square, temporarily put a few inches of blue painters tape over the anti-slip strips next to the square. This will allow the rail to slide easily over the material if it is tilted slightly so that the edge can be easily aligned with your cutting mark. I also put a moveable handle on the edge of the rail so I can apply pressure along the axis of the rail as well as downward while I'm cutting. The handle is used in your left hand to keep the outer end of the rail up off the surface while your right hand moves the other end to get aligned with the mark. It can also be used to apply pressure to the stops on your parallel guides to keep them tight to the edge.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 160
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2018, 02:41 PM »
I guess the MTR-18 is out now, for my personal use I found it underwhelming but that's because I don't have/use an MFT. Very excited about the parallel guide option though! By the way I noticed that they are advertised as fitting in a systainer (a SYS-1 I guess) and you can get an insert that fits two. I can't be the only one who noticed that it fits almost like a glove behind my TS55 in its SYS-4. I totally assumed it was made to be that way until I saw the sales pitch about the systainer insert. It only fits one way (with the clamp to the box side, not the saw) and it's pretty stable. Good way to store it for those who hadn't noticed.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2018, 07:48 PM »
I guess the MTR-18 is out now, for my personal use I found it underwhelming but that's because I don't have/use an MFT. Very excited about the parallel guide option though! By the way I noticed that they are advertised as fitting in a systainer (a SYS-1 I guess) and you can get an insert that fits two. I can't be the only one who noticed that it fits almost like a glove behind my TS55 in its SYS-4. I totally assumed it was made to be that way until I saw the sales pitch about the systainer insert. It only fits one way (with the clamp to the box side, not the saw) and it's pretty stable. Good way to store it for those who hadn't noticed.

@Sanderxpander – your point about the GRS-16 fitting well behind the TS55 in its SYSTAINER has been well known for several years. However, when I looked on our website I discovered that the pictures we took quite some time ago demonstrating this storage option are not on our product page (anymore). So thanks for commenting and we’ll put an illustration up there.
Since October 2017 we have been shipping a version of our GRS-16 series which features a tough but flexible coating on the Latch hook which engages the guide rail. This, along with other geometric refinements, makes it possible to have that hook engage and lock on the reference edge of the square when not in use. This makes it more convenient to store the GRS-16 when that hook portion is not sticking up. The Black coating prevents scratching the blue anodized aluminum.
Our Dual FoamPac for Sys 1 serves woodworkers who have a set of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE. For them we offer the Dual Foam Pac as a storage option.
Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 160
Re: TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square video.
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2018, 02:51 AM »
It didn't seem accidental indeed, everything about it is too well designed!
I actually think I have that version (or at least there's a coating on the hook) but I haven't tried locking it without the rail.

Looking forward to the parallel guides thing!