Author Topic: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits  (Read 4635 times)

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Offline OlderThanDirt

  • Posts: 3
20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« on: May 27, 2017, 02:08 AM »
Greetings woodworkers. My first post. Help. My fingers are worn down to the knuckles. I am looking for a 20mm spiral uncut router bit for my Festool OF1400, and so far, I can only find one from Axminister, England that is out of stock. Where in the USA can I find this elusive bit? I need to start an MFT project. I have a template being cut by a CNC company in San Antonio, but darned if I can find an appropriate bit to plunge cut those holes. I checked the owners group threads and cannot seem to find the bit manufacture's model number. :'(

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Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1657
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2017, 05:52 AM »
[welcome]

Welcome to the FOG!

What shank diameter bit are you looking for? 1/4", 8mm, 1/2"?

I've used the Festool 491072 bit in my OF 1400 quite successfully, but it isn't an upcut spiral - see below for some background info. This is definitely available in the US, but perhaps if we know shank size some other US friends can chip in with some other options for you.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/festool-20mm-router-bit/

Offline Birdhunter

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  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2017, 05:57 AM »
CMT 195.200.11] 20mm Upcut Spiral Router Bit
Birdhunter

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 792
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2017, 06:16 AM »
The shank on that CMT bit is also 20mm

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3585
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2017, 06:39 AM »
Since they are normally milled from a single piece of metal, I think it's pretty difficult to get spiral bits >1/2" while still having a 1/2" shank.  Normally you go with the hinge boring bit style, like the Festool or CMT.
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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2017, 09:47 AM »
Try Whiteside. I have used them in the past.

http://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/catalog.html#catimgs

Peter

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3394
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2017, 10:01 AM »
Greetings woodworkers. My first post. Help. My fingers are worn down to the knuckles. I am looking for a 20mm spiral uncut router bit for my Festool OF1400, and so far, I can only find one from Axminister, England that is out of stock. Where in the USA can I find this elusive bit? I need to start an MFT project. I have a template being cut by a CNC company in San Antonio, but darned if I can find an appropriate bit to plunge cut those holes. I checked the owners group threads and cannot seem to find the bit manufacture's model number. :'(

If the CNC is cutting why do you need the bit? Usually, a bit that is the nominal size you want will cut a hole larger than that. The CNC uses a smaller bit and enlarges the cut to make the exact specified opening.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2017, 10:03 AM »
That CMT bit birdhunter links has a 20mm shank  [eek]

Good luck finding a collet or even one of your handheld routers to fit that.  And at $180+  it turns an DIY worktop into a silk purse/sows ear kinda project.

I'm not sure whiteside has any 20mm spiral bits.  Boring bits for sure they have.

I'm with Michael though, why have a CNC rough out a rectangle and not drill the holes too? Makes no sense to me.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 10:05 AM by antss »

Offline TSO Products

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Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2017, 11:17 AM »
Greetings woodworkers. My first post. Help. My fingers are worn down to the knuckles. I am looking for a 20mm spiral uncut router bit for my Festool OF1400, and so far, I can only find one from Axminister, England that is out of stock. Where in the USA can I find this elusive bit? I need to start an MFT project. I have a template being cut by a CNC company in San Antonio, but darned if I can find an appropriate bit to plunge cut those holes. I checked the owners group threads and cannot seem to find the bit manufacture's model number. :'(

you can download a free variety of worktop sizes in drawing pdf and DXF files for getting your top machined locally - probably for less than the router bit you're looking for.
https://tsoproducts.com/plans-drawings/

Hans
TSOproducts.com

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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2017, 11:18 AM »
If the CNC is cutting why do you need the bit? Usually, a bit that is the nominal size you want will cut a hole larger than that. The CNC uses a smaller bit and enlarges the cut to make the exact specified opening.
CNC shop is making a template, which he will use to cut his own worktop with a 20 mm bit. At least this is my understanding. The template has larger holes to accommodate router bushing.
I don't know why he needs spiral bit. Seems a simple 20 mm boring bit will do.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 12:03 PM by Svar »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4696
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2017, 11:34 AM »
CMT makes a boring bit that's 20mm with an 8mm shank, P/N 392.200.11 that would be typically used with a router.

If you really want a router bit, CMT also offers two 2-flute, carbide insert straight bits P/N 911.200.11 and P/N 174.200.11. Both have 8mm shanks.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2017, 01:22 PM »
Straight bit suck for boring holes - especially in MDF.   [scared]

That CMT boring bit with 8mm shank is pretty darn good, especially for $20 +/-.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2017, 07:33 PM »
Is there an advantage in o having the CNC joint make a template and not the finished part?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2017, 08:12 PM »
Is there an advantage in o having the CNC joint make a template and not the finished part?
Yes. You can have relatively small template, say 5×7 holes and use it to make whatever work surface  size you like, and/or use it for future projects, and/or loan it to a friend.
Of course you cold skip CNC joint, buy one of the smaller MFT tops and replicate it with a pattern bit.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 08:22 PM by Svar »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4696
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2017, 11:01 PM »
Is there an advantage in o having the CNC joint make a template and not the finished part?

Not from my perspective...if you work with the CNC shop, you can have them customize the diameter of the holes so that they fit your selected dogs exactly (provide them with samples). When you use the 20mm boring bit, you're left with what ever it drills. As it heats up, the holes become larger than the previous bored holes.

If you're looking for accurate registration, have the bench top CNC'd, if you're only looking for clamping capabilities, machine it yourself and save $100-200. 

I machined my maple work bench top with a 20mm Zobo bit and am very satisfied, would I use it to square up pieces for an inlay...no, but as a clamping option it's a real charm.

 

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2017, 01:18 AM »
As it heats up, the holes become larger than the previous bored holes.
A 20 mm steel bit will enlarge by 0.02 mm (0.001") per 100 C (180 F) temperature rise. 0.007mm if it is tungsten carbide. And that should be the temp of the entire bit, not just the cutting surface which indeed gets pretty hot. Not something I would worry about drilling holes in MDF.

Offline OlderThanDirt

  • Posts: 3
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2017, 01:38 AM »
Thanks to all of you for responding to my post. You made my day! [big grin]

 As a newbie to woodworking, I made a number of assumptions based upon readings from FOG about routing these 20mm holes. It seemed the spiral up-cut bit was the preferred bit, but in your responses it seems the boring bit is acceptable. I tried a 3/4" two flute bit for practice, but saw that it was not a good solution for drilling plunge cut holes. I thought a 20mm spiral up-cut bit would be commonly found, until I began my searches. I watched Peter Parfitt's video using the hand held drill bit; and took a stab at doing my own holes while waiting for the Parf Guide System to make it to the USA. It was exasperating; my age and neuropathy conditions made it extremely difficult to drill a handful of holes with locally available 20mm drill bits. So, my thinking turned to using my new OF1400 router to ease the pain. I did not know the difference between the different types of bits available.

I also  took previous FOG posts' advise to get it done with CNC. In my post, I said I had the shop working on a jig, but I neglected to mention they are also cutting two other custom table tops with 20mmx96mm holes for me from a 4x8 sheet of Mediate II MDF as well. Hopefully, this clears up some of your queries on why not just CNC as a solution versus just the jig. I am getting CNC done from two different angles! SVAR's response was on track in that using the template for at home customization table work; I don't have to wait 2 or 3 weeks for a CNC shop and it is way cheaper to experiment with at home with further projects. Having a CNC jig made from the off cut is included in the price of the two tops. Maybe a new product in the wings.

My jig is designed as  'a thinking out of the the box' project. It has two MDF components: one uses a profile to align and space the holes and the second holds the Festool OF1400 router and mates with the profile spacer. The design advantage eliminates the use of a template guide bushing and should speed up the whole 'hole' drilling process using a router. I will also be using the Veritas Parf Dogs to lock in the spacing component. I will try to figure out how to post a picture of it from my Mac to help show you where I am headed with this jig.

The CNC work is in queue and about two weeks out at this point. Thanks, again for the bit information. I will look those boring bits up and get ready to take another go at the jig building game.

Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 112
Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2017, 09:17 AM »
I haven't been on FOG for about a week so I'm sorry if this reply comes too late for you.

As I wasn't trying to make an exact match to the MFT tops, I went with a 3/4" spiral upcut bit from MLCS: https://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_solid.html#spiral_hss_anchor

It's item #7498 at the bottom of the page. For $16 I was able to install it into my OF1400 with a 1/2" collet and bore all of the holes in my "Multi-FakedIt-Table" :)
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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: 20mm Spiral Upcut Router bits
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2017, 09:34 AM »
Thanks to all of you for responding to my post. You made my day! [big grin]

 As a newbie to woodworking, I made a number of assumptions based upon readings from FOG about routing these 20mm holes. It seemed the spiral up-cut bit was the preferred bit, but in your responses it seems the boring bit is acceptable. I tried a 3/4" two flute bit for practice, but saw that it was not a good solution for drilling plunge cut holes. I thought a 20mm spiral up-cut bit would be commonly found, until I began my searches. I watched Peter Parfitt's video using the hand held drill bit; and took a stab at doing my own holes while waiting for the Parf Guide System to make it to the USA. It was exasperating; my age and neuropathy conditions made it extremely difficult to drill a handful of holes with locally available 20mm drill bits. So, my thinking turned to using my new OF1400 router to ease the pain. I did not know the difference between the different types of bits available.


I spent some time the day before yesterday comparing the old cutter that comes as part of the Parf Guide System to the new one that has the hex/Centrotec end. They cut just the same and the interesting point that I noted was that my original cutter, which has done hundreds of cuts into MDF, still performs brilliantly and the two cutters are as good as each other.

These cutters have been designed especially for the PGS and cut clean entry and exit holes with very little effort. When used with the 20 mm Guide Block, which is part of the PGS, the holes are vertical and their spacing is exact. The fit of the Veritas Parf Dogs is superb as the cutter has been designed and sized to match. You will find that the holes in an original MFT top are a fraction larger and so holes drilled with this cutter will provide a better and more accurate fit.

Take a look at the reviews which are on the Axminster web site:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-102278

Peter