Author Topic: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck  (Read 2839 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« on: December 23, 2017, 11:11 PM »
I've just purchased a PDC to replace my T18. I really like both the 4 speed gearbox and the percussion capability. However, the one thing I'm going to miss is the eccentric chuck.  It is a great problem solver when drilling or driving a screw in an awkward situation. 

I'm wondering what other people do when trying to drive a screw or drill right next to an obstruction.  I've seen flexible shafts for drills but I would think that without some sort of a handle to stabilize the head end it would wobble and you would run the risk of a stripped screw head or a wonky hope in your work piece.

As a omeowner/hobbyist it is hard to justify keeping the T18 just for the eccentric chuck.

Thanks in advance for the help

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 807
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1314
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2017, 11:43 PM »
Get a TXS.  Perfect compliment to a PDC.  ;-)

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2017, 11:50 PM »
Thanks. I did a search but somehow didn't see that post.

The Athlet bit holder looks interesting but, again, without some sort of handle on it I would think it difficult to hold it steady while driving or drilling

I realize there isn't a Festool product for the PDC that matches the eccentric chuck. I'm wondering what the pros that use red, blue, or yellow drills use when they have to use their drill/drivers next to an obstruction

Thanks

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2017, 11:53 PM »
Get a TXS.  Perfect compliment to a PDC.  ;-)

Thanks. I have a CXS but it still doesn't get you as close to an obstruction as an eccentric chuck

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 44
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 12:00 AM »
I'm wondering what the pros that use red, blue, or yellow drills use when they have to use their drill/drivers next to an obstruction

Thanks

Most guys I've worked with just use a long drill bit and hope for the best (make it work).

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2488
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 12:12 AM »
I have a yellow brand pivot holder - 20 degrees. You can hold it ok. Not as "nice" as the eccentric chuck, but it gets the job done. I think it is impact rated if I am not mistaken, but would have to check. It was less than $20 so not a huge outlay.

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2017, 12:13 AM »
Sigh.  I was hoping for something a little more "refined"

If one of the drill flexible shafts that takes a hex bit just had a handle, so you cold keep it steady, I think that would work well. I just can't find one that works that way

Thanks

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2017, 12:15 AM »
Sigh.  I was hoping for something a little more "refined"

If one of the drill flexible shafts that takes a hex bit just had a handle, so you cold keep it steady, I think that would work well. I just can't find one that works that way

Thanks

Thanks. Do you have a link to that bit holder?

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2017, 12:28 AM »
I found it on Amazon. It is referred to as a "pivoting" bit holder

Thanks

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2017, 02:37 AM »
Sometimes an extra long screwdriver or extension bit holder will reduce the angle sufficiently to allow a good grip on the head of the screw.

I was going to include a demo of the C18 and its eccentric chuck in a video but did not manage to borrow the C18. I had deliberately placed some screws in an awkward place in a cabinet that I was making and in the end used my extra long bit holder.

Another way that may help a little is to use the right angle chuck of the CXS which gets you slightly closer than you can with a PDC.

Peter

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 807
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2017, 05:55 AM »
Milwaukee makes a decent right angle adapter that will get you working almost as close to the edge as the eccentric drive will.

https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-49-22-8510-Right-Angle-Attachment/dp/B000BYEJ02
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1965
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2017, 08:42 AM »
I too was disappointed that the eccentric chuck did not fit the PDC, especially since I got a good deal and bought one from EBay only to find out that it only fit the regular drills.  I've usde all the alternative angle types during the last 40 years and was not pleased with the fussiness of use with any...SO... I bought a bare C-18.  Which gave me the excuse to buy the depth screwing attachment so I could retire my 35 year old Milwaukee screwgun.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5697
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2017, 09:02 AM »
I never understood why they didn't make one for the PDC. They make one for all their drills, but if you have a PDC, you somehow don't need one?

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2017, 09:43 AM »
Thanks All.  My current plan, unless someone comes up with a brilliant alternative, is to get the Dewalt pivoting bit holder.  Then I'm hoping to find that the silver colored collar can be held with your fingers when the drill is operational and doesn't spin.  If it works this way I'm going to take it to a local welding shop and ask them to spot weld a 1/4-20 nut to that collar so I can screw in a handle that will really hold the adapter steady when using it.

I saw that Milwaukee has a pivoting adapter with a ball design at the pivot point.  This model already includes a handle but it wasn't well rated online.

I personally think that somebody in Festool marketing simply decided that if you want an eccentric chuck then you should have to buy two drills.  IMHO they think the PDC is for heavy duty work and the T/C series drills for more refined jobs where an eccentric chuck might be required.  It is the same person who decided that the TS-75 doesn't need the cover plate to improve air-flow and dust control like the TS-55.  They think the TS-75 is for heavy duty sawing and the TS-55 for more refined work where better dust control is needed.  If you want heavy duty and good dust control then buy two saws. Personally I find this rigid marketing segmentation very frustrating.  But I digress. 

Thanks again everyone for your help

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 122
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2017, 09:53 AM »
DeWalt makes a flexible shaft, right angle hex bit holder that does have a handle that screws onto the head.
But it's easy enough to hold without it. I've used mine to drive 10 inch timberloc screws with my impact driver.
I also have a right-angle drive similar to the Milwaukee linked above and a offset bit holder similar to the other link, the flex shaft is far more useful than either IMHO.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1965
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2017, 10:50 AM »
For serious right angle fastening I bought Milwaukee's right angle 18V impact driver (2667-20).  It doesn't get in as close as the eccentric but it's great for driving larger fasteners between joists.  I also use it a lot for drilling and driving in close aluminum glazing framing.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 10:52 AM by rst »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4940
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2017, 11:46 AM »
I own both the old version and the newer version of the Milwaukee right angle drive. They’ve both worked well for me.
The early version was smaller and more compact but the handle part of the drive was cumbersome to operate and sometimes slipped.
The newer version is more robust and the handle screws in place to eliminate the slippage problems of the older right angle drive, however it is also physically larger.

Now, true story...ever since I purchased the CXS and the C15, I’ve not installed the Milwaukee right angle drives on any of my drills. The Festool drills with the right angle/eccentric chucks are just much easier to use.

Even though I don’t use it much, I keep the C15 around for 3 reasons:
1. The eccentric chuck
2. The right angle drive
3. The electronic torque limiter

Otherwise I use the Milwaukee M18 drills & the CXS exclusively.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 03:12 PM by Cheese »

Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2017, 01:05 PM »
Thanks for the additional thoughts.  I saw the Dewalt right angle adapter with the flexible shaft and the handle.  It looks like a nice design but I have right angle adapters for both the PDC and my CXS.  I really just want something for getting up against a wall, or other obstruction. 

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 365
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2017, 06:00 PM »
Bosch GSR 12V-15 FC?

Although at that point you might compare the new-price of that to what you were going to sell the T18 for.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 287
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2017, 02:41 AM »
I never understood why they didn't make one for the PDC. They make one for all their drills, but if you have a PDC, you somehow don't need one?

The PDCs a Narex, not a proper (i.e. original) Festo/ol.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5697
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2017, 03:47 AM »
I never understood why they didn't make one for the PDC. They make one for all their drills, but if you have a PDC, you somehow don't need one?

The PDCs a Narex, not a proper (i.e. original) Festo/ol.

Utter nonsense, it is developed completely by Festool.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 287
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2017, 08:29 AM »
I never understood why they didn't make one for the PDC. They make one for all their drills, but if you have a PDC, you somehow don't need one?

The PDCs a Narex, not a proper (i.e. original) Festo/ol.

Utter nonsense, it is developed completely by Festool.

Really?  Yet it was originally designed, manufactured, marketed & sold for years globally as a Protool: the DRC 12-4 & 18-4, by Narex.  At Ceska Lipa. In the Czech Republic, by Narex at their factory along with a bunch of other former, past & present Festool drills.  Ceska Lipa is also responsible for the Festo/ol 240 & 350mm circular saws, their wide beam planer & probably even the sword saw too.

Just as the Festool's Symmetric & the (current, not the really old) belt sander range are actually Holz Her products.  Or the CT11-55 range Kraenzle products.  Or the Of900 a Mafell, or (at least some of) the SR range actually Wap extractors.

A badge is just a badge.  I consider it a bit disingenuous to the original designer/maker of a product to attribute its creation elsewhere.  Narex has been making hand & power tools, componentry & armaments since at least the 30's:  many of them badged as Festo/ols.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5697
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2017, 09:51 AM »
I consider it a bit disingenuous to the original designer/maker of a product to attribute its creation elsewhere.

ROFL, I can't believe you. Disingenious? THEN STOP DOING IT!  [bite tongue]

As happens -MANY- times with you, you don't have your tool facts straight, again. On top of that, call ME disingenious. Merry X-Mas to you too, aloysius.

Do you actually know the PDC/DRC drills? You might have noticed it is fully Centrotec compatible, receives the standard Festool battery type, has the same class of EC-TEC brushless motors AND on top of that has the incredibly annoying Festool habit of beeping at you when it doesn't like something? OK, I know this is more or less for the best.  [smile]

That's all Festool. The PDC/DRC drills are completely based on the first T12+3 & T15+3 drills.

But besides that, who originally designed the drills still has no bearing on the discussion if they came with an eccentric head or not. The drill has the collar right there to accept such an attachment. The existing angle head fits, right?

-------

Here, while you contemplate on that, why don't you gaze at the technological marvels Festool actually DID inherit from the Narex era. They kept on selling these for the first 3 or 4 years, something like that, until the Festool designed PDC/DRC drills hit the shelves.




« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 10:17 AM by Alex »

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 117
Re: Alternative to Eccentric Chuck
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2017, 08:34 AM »
I own both the old version and the newer version of the Milwaukee right angle drive. They’ve both worked well for me.
The early version was smaller and more compact but the handle part of the drive was cumbersome to operate and sometimes slipped.
The newer version is more robust and the handle screws in place to eliminate the slippage problems of the older right angle drive, however it is also physically larger.

Now, true story...ever since I purchased the CXS and the C15, I’ve not installed the Milwaukee right angle drives on any of my drills. The Festool drills with the right angle/eccentric chucks are just much easier to use.

Even though I don’t use it much, I keep the C15 around for 3 reasons:
1. The eccentric chuck
2. The right angle drive
3. The electronic torque limiter

Otherwise I use the Milwaukee M18 drills & the CXS exclusively.


The Milwaukee right angle adapter is a quality tool and worth having, even if it is a bit pricey. I had a cheap (£5) version like the smaller one shown above for years, but eventually mashed the gear. The Milwaukee is bulkier, but very well built.

All of these right angle adapters require two hands to operate and that can involve some contortions in tight spaces, but I have often put a long hex extension between the drill and the right angle adapter so you can keep the drill outside the [cupboard or whatever] and just one hand steadying the driver end inside the [cupboard].

The Festool offset adapter for the T18 etc is excellent (and was one of my very first Festool purchases with the excellent TDD12 drill), but requires more space behind it for the length of the drill.

Maybe these gadgets encourage a sense of invincibility so that one is inclined to position screws etc regardless of accessibility, rather than finding an alternative method; but then I have got a good few old stubby screwdrivers....

Xmas cheers