Author Topic: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop  (Read 86212 times)

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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5450
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #210 on: October 01, 2016, 03:28 AM »
Some of the Sawstop patents had claims concerning the blade dropping below the table. There have been saws available for decades, that use a circular blade of the type used on a tablesaw, where the blade can be raised above the saw table to cut, and when a handle is released, the blade will automatically drop below the table, either due to a spring, or gravity, or both. The main saw of this design I know of is called a Gjerde saw after the inventor, and is commonly used in Scandinavian countries. I believe there are other designs as well though.

Another of the Sawstop patent claims had to due with the sawblade lowering due to the centrifugal force or momentun of the spinning blade. It would not surprise me if past saw designs, had cutting retractable cutting blades, whose retraction was assisted by the centrifugal force of a spinning blade, even if no patent had specifically been issued related to this. If there was a saw design from the past that could be shown to have this feature, it would count as prior art, and this patent claim would not be considered valid.

I haven't been able to find any more information on the subject, but when the Sawstop patents started to be discussed at length on various forums and magazines, I saw a comment from somebody who claimed that dyring the 1960's or 1970's, there was a tablesaw of some sort shown at a woodworking or industrial show in Germany, whose blade was designed to stop in case the blade contacted the user. Supposedly the woodworkers who saw the saw laughed at it, and nothing more came if it. Unfortunately, I don't speak or read German, so I haven't gone to the effort of trying to see if a German patent was issued for the saw. From the way the claims in the sawstop patents I've read are written, I suspect that there was some sort of prior art that would have prevented a patent from being issued, for the blade stopping simply because of physical contact with the blade.

It doesn't matter for the court what was done in other countries, the court only looks at patents filed in the USA because they're only valid there.

-------

When I first heard of the Reaxx saw I thought it was nice to finally get safe saws here in Europe too. SawStop doesn't sell their saws over here, and Bosch is a German company, so I thought they would make them available here too.

But the odd thing is, Bosch has not released them here yet, and I have not heard anything about plans to do so.

So it looks like Bosch made their saw solely with the purpose of breaking SawStop's monopoly in the United States, a saw that was developed to pick a fight, and I'm sure the multi-billion dollar company has looked at all the legal implications with a huge team of lawyers.

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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1277
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #211 on: October 01, 2016, 08:29 AM »
I suspect they'll be offered in Europe as soon as they can ramp up production to meet demand.

Tool Nut says he sold out of his first shipment, and looks like in pretty short order too.  Tells me that the thing is popular.  I do agree with the rest of your observations though.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 270
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #212 on: October 01, 2016, 09:54 AM »
Some of the Sawstop patents had claims concerning the blade dropping below the table. There have been saws available for decades, that use a circular blade of the type used on a tablesaw, where the blade can be raised above the saw table to cut, and when a handle is released, the blade will automatically drop below the table, either due to a spring, or gravity, or both. The main saw of this design I know of is called a Gjerde saw after the inventor, and is commonly used in Scandinavian countries. I believe there are other designs as well though.

Another of the Sawstop patent claims had to due with the sawblade lowering due to the centrifugal force or momentun of the spinning blade. It would not surprise me if past saw designs, had cutting retractable cutting blades, whose retraction was assisted by the centrifugal force of a spinning blade, even if no patent had specifically been issued related to this. If there was a saw design from the past that could be shown to have this feature, it would count as prior art, and this patent claim would not be considered valid.

I haven't been able to find any more information on the subject, but when the Sawstop patents started to be discussed at length on various forums and magazines, I saw a comment from somebody who claimed that dyring the 1960's or 1970's, there was a tablesaw of some sort shown at a woodworking or industrial show in Germany, whose blade was designed to stop in case the blade contacted the user. Supposedly the woodworkers who saw the saw laughed at it, and nothing more came if it. Unfortunately, I don't speak or read German, so I haven't gone to the effort of trying to see if a German patent was issued for the saw. From the way the claims in the sawstop patents I've read are written, I suspect that there was some sort of prior art that would have prevented a patent from being issued, for the blade stopping simply because of physical contact with the blade.

It doesn't matter for the court what was done in other countries, the court only looks at patents filed in the USA because they're only valid there.

-------

When I first heard of the Reaxx saw I thought it was nice to finally get safe saws here in Europe too. SawStop doesn't sell their saws over here, and Bosch is a German company, so I thought they would make them available here too.

But the odd thing is, Bosch has not released them here yet, and I have not heard anything about plans to do so.

So it looks like Bosch made their saw solely with the purpose of breaking SawStop's monopoly in the United States, a saw that was developed to pick a fight, and I'm sure the multi-billion dollar company has looked at all the legal implications with a huge team of lawyers.

You can't patent "prior art", or at least you're not supposed to be able to. If a technology or invention etc., already exists, and information on that invention has been published, or displayed in a public display, or forum, than that "invention" is generally considered no longer patentable. A prior patent for that invention, published in another country, would be considered prior art, especially if that patent was decades old. Some countries may allow, or used to allow, an item or invention, that had been previously patented in another country, to be patented in the second country if no patent had already been filed for the invention in the second country. I believe Japan used to allow this. I'm not sure if Japan still allows this, or whether any other countries still do.

The Gjerde saw I referenced has been manufactured and sold for decades, and was once slso officially sold in the United States, although it was not very common. Other types of saw that use a blade that drops below the table have also been sold in the United States, I recall seeing them in older industrial supply catalogues.

The saw that was supposedly didplayed at the German woodworking show would also count as prior art, especially if there was mention of it in the press or prior patents for the technology. If Bosch could actually find an example of the original saw, then that could be used to challenge the patent Sawstop was issued.

A patent clerk may not have complete knowledge of a subject when he determines whether a patent is valid and will be issued. If nobody has bothered to patent an invention because that invention is consider knowledge, then a patent clerk might find no reference to that invention in patent records and issue a patent by mistake. This is one of the reasons it is possible to challenge a patent.


Online Svar

  • Posts: 1056
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #213 on: October 01, 2016, 10:15 AM »
Some of the Sawstop patents had claims concerning the blade dropping below the table. There have been saws available for decades, that use a circular blade of the type used on a tablesaw, where the blade can be raised above the saw table to cut, and when a handle is released, the blade will automatically drop below the table, either due to a spring, or gravity, or both. The main saw of this design I know of is called a Gjerde saw after the inventor, and is commonly used in Scandinavian countries. I believe there are other designs as well though.
I don't think that kind of blade drop will count. After all the blade on my saw also drops below the table by using crank.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3462
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #214 on: October 01, 2016, 10:59 AM »
A patent clerk may not have complete knowledge of a subject when he determines whether a patent is valid and will be issued. If nobody has bothered to patent an invention because that invention is consider knowledge, then a patent clerk might find no reference to that invention in patent records and issue a patent by mistake. This is one of the reasons it is possible to challenge a patent.

Very true, and because of this, I feel, this stage is probably the most important part of the process. This is when your attorney needs to have a good working relationship with the examiner so that the exchange of information between the inventor, patent attorney and examiner, can be fairly rapid. The idea is to keep the patent application and all of its nuances and claims, fresh in the minds of everyone involved and it usually results in a more robust patent. This is the stage where information flows in both directions and is your opportunity to supply additional information to the examiner if he/she doesn't have complete knowledge of a subject.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 270
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #215 on: October 01, 2016, 11:33 AM »
Some of the Sawstop patents had claims concerning the blade dropping below the table. There have been saws available for decades, that use a circular blade of the type used on a tablesaw, where the blade can be raised above the saw table to cut, and when a handle is released, the blade will automatically drop below the table, either due to a spring, or gravity, or both. The main saw of this design I know of is called a Gjerde saw after the inventor, and is commonly used in Scandinavian countries. I believe there are other designs as well though.
I don't think that kind of blade drop will count. After all the blade on my saw also drops below the table by using crank.

The blade on a regular tablesaw raises and lowers by a crank, but will not drop if you let go of the crank. On the Gjerde saws the blade is raised by lifting a lever. To have the blade stay up though, you need to tighten a clamp. If you don't tighten the clamp, the blade will automatically lower. If you are using the saw for crosscuts using the kever to raise the blade thru the work, and you accidentally had your hand in the wrong place and cut into it, you could let go of the lever, and the blade would fall below the table. In this instance your brain would be acting as the flesh sensing technology, and your other hand as the release switch to lower the blade. There are other saws that work the same using a foot lever.


Offline JimD

  • Posts: 322
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #216 on: October 04, 2016, 07:58 AM »
The Bosch press release is a lot more informative than the one by SS.  They explain the process and exactly where we are in that process.  SS tries to pretend that the battle is over.  That's wishful thinking on their part. 

Bosch is claiming that SS patents are not valid (should not have been granted) and that SS infringes it's patents.  I LOVE that.  Says they are ready to battle SS.  Bosch is not just defending itself, it is attacking Gass.  If they win, he could owe them money.  Their patents could disappear.  Gass really wishes it was over. 

I think all woodworkers owe Steve Gass a vote of gratitude for forcing blade sensing technology into the forefront for table saws.  But his tactics to enrich himself are just over the top.  3-8% licensing fee for an adaptation of existing technology is just out-of-line.  Testifying that Ryobi's $100 table saw should have had his technology making Ryobi 100% responsible for injuries that occurred when the user was not using the supplied guard or even the rip fence is, again, totally out-of-line.  So in the aggregate, I will not enrich Gass by buying anything from him and I really want Bosch to eliminate his blockade against other uses of blade sensing technology in wood working equipment. 

When large corporations battle small corporations over patents, guess who typically wins?  Unfortunately, more money means better lawyers which can influence the outcome.  In this case, I am glad it works this way.  Makes it more likely Bosch wins and we can get this technology at a more reasonable price.  Hasn't happened yet, Bosch is pricey too, but I am optimistic that if the threats of a Gass lawsuit go away, the price will fall.

Jim

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #217 on: October 04, 2016, 12:30 PM »
The Bosch press release is a lot more informative than the one by SS.  They explain the process and exactly where we are in that process.  SS tries to pretend that the battle is over.  That's wishful thinking on their part. 

Bosch is claiming that SS patents are not valid (should not have been granted) and that SS infringes it's patents.  I LOVE that.  Says they are ready to battle SS.  Bosch is not just defending itself, it is attacking Gass.  If they win, he could owe them money.  Their patents could disappear.  Gass really wishes it was over. 

I think all woodworkers owe Steve Gass a vote of gratitude for forcing blade sensing technology into the forefront for table saws.  But his tactics to enrich himself are just over the top.  3-8% licensing fee for an adaptation of existing technology is just out-of-line.  Testifying that Ryobi's $100 table saw should have had his technology making Ryobi 100% responsible for injuries that occurred when the user was not using the supplied guard or even the rip fence is, again, totally out-of-line.  So in the aggregate, I will not enrich Gass by buying anything from him and I really want Bosch to eliminate his blockade against other uses of blade sensing technology in wood working equipment. 

When large corporations battle small corporations over patents, guess who typically wins?  Unfortunately, more money means better lawyers which can influence the outcome.  In this case, I am glad it works this way.  Makes it more likely Bosch wins and we can get this technology at a more reasonable price.  Hasn't happened yet, Bosch is pricey too, but I am optimistic that if the threats of a Gass lawsuit go away, the price will fall.

Jim
so Bosch's profits are better than SawStops profits.  [blink]

SawStop took a big risk and proved there is a good market for the technology, now Bosch wants that market and their solution is to destroy the people who brought it to market in the first place, and some applaud that because the inventor was an ardent proponent of his safety technology. His early tactics failed as they should have and his licensing fees are his business, others can choose to pay it or not, that's their business to decide how much they value their customers safety. So he became a saw maker and by most counts they are great saws, but still people hate on him and seem to like the idea that he be destroyed by a giant. I have a hard time understanding the hate.
+1

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1137
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #218 on: October 04, 2016, 12:54 PM »
Bosch is not out to destroy SawStop or the people that brought it to market.  Competition is good for consumers.  Competition makes products better and keeps prices down.  Bosch merely wants the opportunity to compete with SawStop in the free market.  Then, it is ultimately up to consumers to make their choice.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 01:00 PM by RobBob »

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #219 on: October 04, 2016, 01:59 PM »
Bosch is not out to destroy SawStop or the people that brought it to market.  Competition is good for consumers.  Competition makes products better and keeps prices down.  Bosch merely wants the opportunity to compete with SawStop in the free market.  Then, it is ultimately up to consumers to make their choice.

If Bosch is attacking SawStops patents and succeeds it will destroy SS because that is fundamental to their business at this point. Without patent protection other larger manufacturers will kill SS who only makes table saws. Their days may be numbered regardless since their patents will expire at some point, but at least there is the opportunity in that time to make a profit and build the brand.
+1

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1958
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #220 on: October 05, 2016, 04:51 PM »
Some thoughts and info from reading about the Bosch.

I don't see how skin sensing by SS is enforceable. We've had touch lamps and other touch sensitive devices long before SS was available.

I believe what the items from the other division are the cartridges that force the blade below the table. They are nitrogen cartridges that come from the Bosch automotive division. The cartridge is used to lock seat belts in an accident.

The Bosch does not jamb the blade or use blade motion to lower the blade. It uses the charge from the cartridge to rapidly lower the blade.

Tom
  Pyrotechnic Cartridges are definitely in modern vehicles since you want to tighten the belt on an occupant in a crash and prevent them from sliding under the belt towards the floor as well[called seat belt submarining]
 The cartridge fires, the seat belt tightens and you get to replace the whole assembly after a crash since web stretching of the belt material is a very real possibility along with the one-time usage of that cartridge.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 11:53 AM by leakyroof »
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline JimD

  • Posts: 322
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #221 on: October 09, 2016, 08:51 AM »
Paul,

I don't think I hate Steve Gass, I just find his tactics totally unacceptable.  To argue to the regulators that his technology should be mandated on all table saws - with the obvious goal of forcing all manufacturers to pay him his outrageous fee is extremely aggressive and unacceptable to me.  I will avoid providing my money to a person that does this.  The fact that he set such an outrageous fee is my business too since it helped keep his technology unavailable to me without buying it from Gass.  I'd like to see similar technology on other tools too.  But as long as Gass keeps threatening anybody who uses flesh contact technology, we will not see usage expand.  Flesh contacting technology was already used to control lights when Gass started filing patents.  I don't know if that will be considered prior art but it might.  Gass adapted the flesh contacting technology of lights and the rapid deployment of airbags to create the table saw safety device.  I appreciate the fact that he did this but I wish he made it available on a more reasonable basis.

I would also rather enrich Bosch.  I have several Bosch tools that work great.  I bought them because I thought they were the right combination of price and capability.  I didn't buy them because Bosch developed a great new technology that they refused to reasonably make available to others.  If Bosch used the same tactic as SS, I wouldn't buy from them either.

It is not the person I object to, it is his tactics.

Jim

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1716
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #222 on: October 09, 2016, 01:27 PM »
For me, the point is that I want to buy the best, safest, highest quality tools available for the money. If the Bosch table saw had been available with the blade safety mechanism when I needed a table saw, I would have picked the one that seemed to be the best for the money at the time. But, when I wanted a jobsite saw, Sawstop was the only one on the market at that time with a blade brake. Never sorry I bought it though. I don't always agree with the way tool companies do business or how they advertise, but if they have a great tool and it's a tool I need, I won't hesitate to buy it. I don't really understand taking anything into account other than the tool itself, its quality, its value, and its track record as a tool.
Randy

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #223 on: October 09, 2016, 03:19 PM »
The number of people willing to "weigh-in" on this subject (not necessarily in this thread) seems to vastly outnumber the people who understand the facts. Which side they support is usually more political  than rational.

Offline RobBob

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #224 on: October 09, 2016, 04:56 PM »
@Michael Kellough  What are the facts that people do not understand?

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 270
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #225 on: October 09, 2016, 05:27 PM »
A quick search of patents, showed several or more patents, for machine safety systems, designed to automatically stop machines, or tools, if someone, or something, got too close to, or touched, an area or piece of a machine they weren't supposed to or which could cause a safety problem. These patents specifically mention detecting changes in capacitance being used to detect the safety issue. A number of those patents predate the Gass Sawstop patents. One if the patents specifically mentioned power saw blades. Another of those patents actually mentioned the lamps with the capacitance switch that has previously been mentioned in this thread. The Gass sawstop patents seemed like they were trying to split very fine hairs, and the former patents may be the reasons. The former patents may also be some of the reasons Bosch feels the Sawstop patents should not have been granted in the first place. A number of patents were also filed by various power tool manufacturers, and the Power Tool Institute, after Gass recieved his Sawstop patents, and these may be Related to one of the other complaints Bosch made concerning Sawstop.

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 393
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #226 on: October 09, 2016, 06:06 PM »
Sawstop was the only company willing to actually complete the research and development of this type of saw. Bosch may have had the capability many years ago, but they did not pursue the technology until Sawstop was a significant success.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1277
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #227 on: October 09, 2016, 10:16 PM »
a lawyer splitting hairs ?  Really ?  [huh]

SS could and likely will survive even if the case goes against them.  Their cabinet saws are arguably the best around even without the safety feature.  If their jobsite saw isn't up to snuff, then they'll have to adapt. Just like most businesses do when selling machines.  Soon their patent will expire anyway and the floodgates will open forcing a marketplace driven response- not a regulatory one.

Think how much more $$$ SS would have made if they'd started out producing a great saw instead of just trying to shakedown the industry as their first revenue producing idea.


Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 848
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #228 on: October 11, 2016, 09:11 PM »
For those who have legal backgrounds or just can't fall asleep, here all the legal fillings and court transcripts etc....

https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/International_Trade_Commission/337-965/Certain_Table_Saws_Incorporating_Active_Injury_Mitigation_Technology_and_Components_Thereof/

Have fun!
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Offline JimD

  • Posts: 322
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #229 on: October 11, 2016, 09:28 PM »
I didn't read the pleadings (thanks for posting) but I did google up the lead lawyers for both sides.  The resume of the Bosch lawyer looks a lot better to me than the SawStop.  But I already expected that so maybe I'm reading things into it.  The Bosch lawyer is from NYC and the SawStop from Washington DC.  Even if I'm right, the better credentialed lawyer doesn't always win but I think it helps.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3879
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #230 on: October 11, 2016, 09:40 PM »
Elections are generally more of a popularity contest.

The legal findings should be more based upon facts, previous legal precedence, and persuasive arguments.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #231 on: October 17, 2016, 11:09 AM »
....If Bosch used the same tactic as SS, I wouldn't buy from them either.

It is not the person I object to, it is his tactics.

Jim

Do you truly think that a company like Bosch hasn't at some point in time supported legislative efforts that helps their bottom line?
+1

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1277
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #232 on: October 19, 2016, 08:31 PM »
^^^^^^
don't know, do you have any facts to support that assertion ?

It's common knowledge that SS petitioned the government to mandate this tech on ALL table saws. not just those used in public schools, federal projects, or by government agencies- things paid for with government $$$. 

I think many people have a real problem with the government telling them that can't use a $99 table saw in their own garage in rural Montana or Ohio. 

Akin to having them tell you MUST have cooktop burners that won't burn you, or a knife that won't cut you.   What's next ? Maybe a bathtub that's drown proof.

Life is inherently risky - accept the responsibility.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #233 on: October 19, 2016, 11:12 PM »
^^^^^^
don't know, do you have any facts to support that assertion ?

It's common knowledge that SS petitioned the government to mandate this tech on ALL table saws. not just those used in public schools, federal projects, or by government agencies- things paid for with government $$$. 

I think many people have a real problem with the government telling them that can't use a $99 table saw in their own garage in rural Montana or Ohio. 

Akin to having them tell you MUST have cooktop burners that won't burn you, or a knife that won't cut you.   What's next ? Maybe a bathtub that's drown proof.

Life is inherently risky - accept the responsibility.

Why do you think Bosch spends a bundle each year lobbying politicians?

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000056189

And I'm sure this is just a coincidence http://www.bosch-climate.us/files/Senator_Shaheen_Visit_to_Bosch_T_May_8_2015T_US_US.pdf

Or how about their trade memberships, here's a few I could dig up that are active in legislative advocacy

https://www.oesa.org/become-member/member-list
https://www.ana.net/members/list

Oh and google "Robert Bosch llc patent lawsuits" and you'll see they are quite busy in that dept as both plaintiff and defendant.

They aren't saints, this is how big business works. Grease, mutual back scratching, more grease, fill the courts with lawsuits. Anything for an edge.

As for govt forcing products for safety on the public, it happens all the time. Seat belts, air bags, motorcycle helmets, gun locks and dissabled pool lifts are just a few that came to mind. Who do you think pushes for this stuff? Most certainly the makers of these products or their surrogates are eager to lend their support.

Are folks so naive to this?
+1

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #234 on: October 20, 2016, 11:05 AM »
Skirting on the edge of politics. Please make sure it doesn't turn down the political road.

Seth

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3879
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #235 on: October 20, 2016, 07:21 PM »
Skirting on the edge of politics. Please make sure it doesn't turn down the political road cul-de-sac.

Seth

@SRSemenza Corrected ^the misspelling^ [big grin]


It is interesting that SS did not offer some licensing of the technology. It does go against the model of producing saws, but seems like it would have been a money maker.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5151
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #236 on: October 20, 2016, 07:25 PM »
Skirting on the edge of politics. Please make sure it doesn't turn down the political road cul-de-sac.

Seth

@SRSemenza Corrected ^the misspelling^ [big grin]


It is interesting that SS did not offer some licensing of the technology. It does go against the model of producing saws, but seems like it would have been a money maker.

SS offered licensing of their system, from what I've read, it bordered on an insane amount per unit.

Tom

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1277
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #237 on: October 20, 2016, 07:54 PM »
.......and the offer was politely declined.   The marketplace spoke, and instead of adjusting pricing like many business; SS instead went to get a 2x4 and try to beat them over the head with it.

Paul - those are all outa the Automotive group which is separate from the Tool division - which is what I had in my mind while discussing.  But I will defer that you're technically correct. 

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 393
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #238 on: October 20, 2016, 11:04 PM »
What was the insane licensing amount? I remember reading 5-8% royalty. Is that an insane amount in this type of situation? A new and different safety device certainly should warrant some premium over a product without it.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1902
Re: Bosch to Compete Against Saw Stop
« Reply #239 on: October 20, 2016, 11:51 PM »
What was the insane licensing amount? I remember reading 5-8% royalty. Is that an insane amount in this type of situation? A new and different safety device certainly should warrant some premium over a product without it.

Also what would that be a % of? Everything is negotiable
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 01:37 AM by Paul G »
+1