Author Topic: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...  (Read 2347 times)

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Offline estley

  • Posts: 112
Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« on: September 13, 2018, 12:26 PM »
I have a n3800 with the stock guides, and I'm looking at upgrading them with the carter Euro 5 Kit. Has anyone made that upgrade? worth it?

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Offline Huxleywood

  • Posts: 135
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 09:38 PM »
IIRC the EuroX series guides from Carter are their 500 series guides, I would consider this a downgrade.  I consider even their top of the line Micro Precision guides to be at best a lateral move from a good Euro guide.  I could write several pages on it but I am lazy and tired. 

The real question is what are the guides doing or not doing that you want to "fix"?  What size blades and types of cuts are you doing that the guides are not adequate for?  Are you using the best quality blades you can for your work?

The best "upgrade" you can do for a Euro guide is to buy the Space Age Ceramic replacement "bearings".  They do have advantages depending on what your work type is. 


Van

Offline estley

  • Posts: 112
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 09:55 AM »
I think a lot of it is my lack of bandsaw skills, this is my first bandsaw. The euro guides it has right now have this "wobble", so it's hard for me to tell how close they are to the blade when I set them, so I guess I tend to err on the side of caution and leave them more open than I should.

I'm using a 3/4 timberwolf blade, I was re-sawing a 6inch wide board of walnut, pretty long board. the first few feet went fine, but then I must've done something wrong, because the blade moved closer to the fence and left a dip in the cut. Maybe I pushed too hard, or the guides weren't close enough to the blade?

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1973
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 05:38 PM »
I set my bandsaw blades by inserting a piece of office paper between the blade and guide on one side, been using this method for 50+ years.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 382
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 05:57 PM »
I think a lot of it is my lack of bandsaw skills, this is my first bandsaw. The euro guides it has right now have this "wobble", so it's hard for me to tell how close they are to the blade when I set them, so I guess I tend to err on the side of caution and leave them more open than I should.

I'm using a 3/4 timberwolf blade, I was re-sawing a 6inch wide board of walnut, pretty long board. the first few feet went fine, but then I must've done something wrong, because the blade moved closer to the fence and left a dip in the cut. Maybe I pushed too hard, or the guides weren't close enough to the blade?

I realize this reply doesn't address the Carter guides however......By dip in the cut, are you referring to a barrel shaped curve within the cut?  If so that can be caused by a blade that is becoming dull or more likely not tensioned enough.  Under severe cases this can actually cause the blade to blow out through the side of the piece being re-sawed even though that bow may be totally out of sight while cutting. 

I have used Timber Wolf blades and while they have been good, some have dulled quickly.  A carbide toothed blade although pricey, can be a worthwhile expenditure if you intend to do much re-sawing.  Highland woodworking also have a non-carbide "Woodslicer" blade specifically for re-sawing that has performed pretty well in my experience.

The paper shim method as described earlier does typically work well although some guides are actually meant to be in light contact with the blade.  There should be good information available on guide setup for your actual guides, but I think it may not be guide set up that is causing this.

Also, if using a fixed fence, drift angle may be coming into play.  That can easily occur if the blade is not positioned correctly on the wheels.  Although there are lots of different views on drift and whether or not it can be adjusted, some folks use a fence with a pivot directly across from the blade teeth and steer the board through.  Others use fences that are adjustable to compensate for drift.  None of those will compensate for a blade that is dulling or not tensioned enough.  It will be interesting to see what you ultimately find out on this one. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 06:08 PM by Dick Mahany »

Offline estley

  • Posts: 112
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2018, 09:01 PM »
Come to think of it, I may not be tensioning enough, I guess it's a trial and error thing. I'll keep trying different settings, I've also been playing with the idea of a carbide blade, any specific suggestions there? Thanks!!

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 382
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2018, 09:18 PM »
Come to think of it, I may not be tensioning enough, I guess it's a trial and error thing. I'll keep trying different settings, I've also been playing with the idea of a carbide blade, any specific suggestions there? Thanks!!

I had a Laguna Resaw King and loved it.  It was the best resaw blade that I had ever used.  It can be resharpened.  The only problem was that my saw is a Delta 14" cast saw and the wheels were too small and caused it to develop stress cracks.  Now I use a Lennox Tri Master and it's almost as good but the Resaw King had a clear edge.

The Laguna blade left an incredible finish on the cut and required minimal cleanup.  I routinely sliced 0.060" veneers from 6"+ hardwood and got consistent results.  It is a thin kerf blade and wasted a minimum of precious wood on the cuts while powering through hardwood with ease.  Good luck!

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1314
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2018, 09:43 PM »
Come to think of it, I may not be tensioning enough, I guess it's a trial and error thing. I'll keep trying different settings, I've also been playing with the idea of a carbide blade, any specific suggestions there? Thanks!!

I had a Laguna Resaw King and loved it.  It was the best resaw blade that I had ever used.  It can be resharpened.  The only problem was that my saw is a Delta 14" cast saw and the wheels were too small and caused it to develop stress cracks.  Now I use a Lennox Tri Master and it's almost as good but the Resaw King had a clear edge.

The Laguna blade left an incredible finish on the cut and required minimal cleanup.  I routinely sliced 0.060" veneers from 6"+ hardwood and got consistent results.  It is a thin kerf blade and wasted a minimum of precious wood on the cuts while powering through hardwood with ease.  Good luck!
@Dick Mahany Which Lenox Tri-Master do you have?  TPI and tooth set?  Thanks!

Offline Huxleywood

  • Posts: 135
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2018, 10:21 PM »
The Resaw King has higher shear faces so it leaves a better finish than the triple chip grind on the TriMaster.  The RK also has a thin backer so it is easier to tension on a small lightweight saw like the OP's Hammer.  The RK is his best choice, preferably in 3/4" width. 

I use a Trimaster on my resaw with a power feeder.  I use the RK for hand fed resawing and use a Kerfmaster (the same Atlanta Sharptech blade stock as the Woodslicer for half the price) on a saw I use when I am cutting veneer out of precious wood and want a very thin kerf and a very good finish.  The Kerfmaster (Spectrum Supply), Blade Runner (Iturra Design) and Woodslicer (Highland) are thin kerf, no set, induction hardened spring steel blades.  It is initially VERY sharp and leaves a great finish (helped by the low harmonics of the variable TPI) BUT it dulls very quickly.  It is useful on small cast iron saws since it does not require a lot of spring tension to reach the proper strain and for saving wood.  It is, however, a very expensive (per cut blade) for general resawing/veneer work.  I consider it a specialty blade. 

The OP needs to explain what he means by wobble on the guides and exactly what he means by the dip in the wood.  I am nut sure he is talking about barrelling.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 382
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2018, 10:34 PM »

@Dick Mahany Which Lenox Tri-Master do you have?  TPI and tooth set?  Thanks!

I'll measure it and reply back tomorrow
Dick Mahany

Offline Huxleywood

  • Posts: 135
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 11:37 PM »
Which Lenox Tri-Master do you have?  TPI and tooth set?  Thanks!

I missed this in the first reading.  FYI carbide tipped blades have no set.  Unless one has a very capable saw you don't really want to go wider than a 3/4" blade since they have a relatively thick backer (.035" on the 3/4 and 1" Tri-Masters) and prefer 28-30k psi of tension.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 382
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2018, 08:25 AM »
@RobBob

The Lenox Trimaster on my Delta 14" cast saw w/6" riser is the 1/2" x 3 TPI with .025" backer.  Tensioning is no problem for the 1/2" blade and I'm using the Carter Cobra Coil aftermarket spring, but I don't think it is needed for this blade on my saw.  It works well although I believe Lenox say it can not be re-sharpened as can the Laguna RK.  As the previous poster has pointed out the carbide blade has no set unlike non-carbide tipped blades.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 08:43 AM by Dick Mahany »

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1314
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2018, 08:45 AM »
@Dick Mahany Well, guess I got close.  For some reason, I bought the lenox diemaster 2.
 1/2" x .035 and 3 tpi

This is for a Felder FB 510.

It's not carbide, but costs a third as much and supposedly lasts longer than carbon steel.  I hope works ok for general use.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 08:59 AM by RobBob »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4947
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 11:01 AM »
For some reason, I bought the lenox diemaster 2.
 1/2" x .035 and 3 tpi

Well that's interesting, I stumbled upon that blade while I was looking for a metal cutting option. It'll cut both aluminum & stainless, you just need different tooth counts.

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1314
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2018, 12:17 PM »
For some reason, I bought the lenox diemaster 2.
 1/2" x .035 and 3 tpi

Well that's interesting, I stumbled upon that blade while I was looking for a metal cutting option. It'll cut both aluminum & stainless, you just need different tooth counts.

It also lists wood as an acceptable application.  Guess I'll find out the hard way how good or bad it is for wood.   [blink]
Lenox Diemaster 2 bi metal
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 12:20 PM by RobBob »

Offline Huxleywood

  • Posts: 135
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2018, 06:25 PM »
@Dick Mahany Well, guess I got close.  For some reason, I bought the lenox diemaster 2.
 1/2" x .035 and 3 tpi

This is for a Felder FB 510.

It's not carbide, but costs a third as much and supposedly lasts longer than carbon steel.  I hope works ok for general use.

The Diemaster 2 is actually a very good wood blade (in the right configuration) I keep one on my saw I use to cut turning blanks on (3/8") and it works great except in really green pitchy wood which I will change out for a blade with more set.  Note for years the Tri-Master was not listed as a wood blade by Lenox it has only been maybe 8-10 years since they listed wood as on label usage.  Prior to that the Woodmaster CT was the only carbide blade they listed for wood. 

Bi-metal blades will outlast a carbon blade roughly 7 to 1. 

The lighter weight Felder line (X10 series) is ok with up to a 1"x.035" carbide or bi-metal band but that is at the very upper end of its tensioning capability.   The X40 series is more in line with the Centauro built Minimax saws in terms of tension. 

Offline Huxleywood

  • Posts: 135
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2018, 06:31 PM »
@RobBob

The Lenox Trimaster on my Delta 14" cast saw w/6" riser is the 1/2" x 3 TPI with .025" backer.  Tensioning is no problem for the 1/2" blade and I'm using the Carter Cobra Coil aftermarket spring, but I don't think it is needed for this blade on my saw.  It works well although I believe Lenox say it can not be re-sharpened as can the Laguna RK.  As the previous poster has pointed out the carbide blade has no set unlike non-carbide tipped blades.

The 14" cast saws (with the exception of the beefier PM 141/143) can probably get a max of about 12-14K on that blade.  It will produce a decent cut but not at the capability of the Tri-Master that likes 28-30k psi.  The issue is no matter what spring you put on the saw the upper wheel hinge is the weak link in the tensioning chain.  Louis Iturra used to make a beefed up wheel hinge for the Delta but I am not sure he does any longer. 

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1088
Re: Carter guides for Hammer band saw...
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2018, 02:20 PM »
OP: Any particular reason you wouldnt go with the Hammer X-Life Ceramic Guides? Ive got them on my N4400 and love em!
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