Author Topic: Cordless pinners/nailers  (Read 2036 times)

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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 247
Cordless pinners/nailers
« on: October 04, 2018, 03:11 PM »
In my new to me house my workshop is in the basement but my mechanic tools are up in the garage. During assembly I'd like to use a pinner sometimes but I don't want an air compressor in my shop. I've been doing some brief looking around and it seems for the 23ga pinners there isn't really a good cordless option, unless the reviews are fake. I got excited when I stumbled on a video of Cadex introducing a 23ga cordless but searches here reveal them to be more of a vaporware company. Go to their site and it's all wonky, they list a systainer compressor and if you click on it, it takes you to systainer inserts, no compressor.

21ga is still kind of new so I don't see much there.

Grex has an 18ga cordless which I'm sure is nice but it sure is expensive and I'm not sure if I'd want 18ga for what I'd use it for.

I'm guessing there's an inherent design hurdle to making a reliable 23ga cordless pinner as I haven't come across one yet that doesn't get bad reviews.

Does anyone have any other options or experience to share?


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Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 701
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2018, 06:44 PM »
Do you already own a pneumatic pinner?

Not sure why you wouldn't want a compressor in your wood shop?? Noise? California Air Tools makes a super quiet compressor for a reasonable price. Every time I fire mine up inside a home, I am happy with my purchase. The whack after pulling the trigger is way louder.

I looked at the cordless pinners, and have read up on them a little. They seem to work fine on softer wood. Hickory, oak, etc. might leave something to be desired.

Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 62
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 06:53 PM »
I'll second Peter's opinion.

I looked at every cordless pinner on the market last fall (so the latest models from Ryobi and Makita were not available yet) and saw a lot of feedback regarding inconsistency of nail setting in hardwoods. All cordless models are also very bulky compared to the air units.

So I kept my current 23GA pinner and got a 1 gallon California Air Tools compressor, which is whisper quiet and lets me shoot 12-15 pins in between refills. This is the one I got -- http://a.co/d/5WnoxiY
Like Peter said, the sound air pinner makes during operation is louder that this compressor pumping air.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 247
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 07:35 PM »
Yes I own a rather heavy compressor that I keep in the garage and have some brad and pin nailers from Home Depot. I was hoping to avoid yet another stationary tool in my tiny 12x14 workshop. I know their footprint can be small. I guess with battery tech I wanted the convenience of grab and go. But it sounds like the engineering isn't there yet.

Offline Sometimewoodworker

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Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 08:14 PM »
Yes I own a rather heavy compressor that I keep in the garage and have some brad and pin nailers from Home Depot. I was hoping to avoid yet another stationary tool in my tiny 12x14 workshop. I know their footprint can be small. I guess with battery tech I wanted the convenience of grab and go. But it sounds like the engineering isn't there yet.

Why not run an air line down to your basement?

I am going to be doing something similar to that when my workshop and paint room are finished. I'm intending to use ½" galvanise pipe for most of the run.
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, HL 850, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
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Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 701
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 12:24 AM »
Why not run an air line down to your basement?

I am going to be doing something similar to that when my workshop and paint room are finished. I'm intending to use ½" galvanise pipe for most of the run.
Only thing I would do different is to use copper. Just use type "L" which is thicker.

My preference is for 3/4" piping as it holds air closer to the tool you are using. Another option is to put a tank near the outlet, like a scuba tank. Also make sure to put drops in for draining, and a regulator/separator in an easy to reach location.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 09:41 AM »
I've been mostly happy with my cordless 18V Makita 23ga pinner, and certainly feel like the cost has been justified.  I actually bought mine right as they were rolling out the 2nd generation model.  I happened to get the first generation, and was not pleased with the results for longer pins (1"-1 3/8") in hardwood.  But I discovered that they had just shipped a new batch to my tool dealer, so I swapped it out for the new model. 

The newer model will still not sink a 1 3/8" pin in all hardwoods consistently, but I don't have any issues when working with nails 1" or less in any species of wood (including really dense woods like Ipe).  I think it has only jammed twice in the year or so I've been using it.  Clearing the jam is not an immediate operation, and requires removing a few hex screws from the top, but at least there is on-board storage of the wrench.

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Offline ihadmail

  • Posts: 8
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 04:34 AM »
The current edition (October/November 2018) of Fine Homebuilding has an advertisement near the back for a GREX 23ga cordless pinner that uses their gas and standard batteries. Sadly the ad doesn't give a model number and this model is not listed on the GREX website. Calling a GREX dealer may be an option to get some information, but I would expect this to be a very pricey cordless unit.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3664
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 09:27 AM »
Why not run an air line down to your basement?

I am going to be doing something similar to that when my workshop and paint room are finished. I'm intending to use ½" galvanise pipe for most of the run.
Only thing I would do different is to use copper. Just use type "L" which is thicker.

My preference is for 3/4" piping as it holds air closer to the tool you are using. Another option is to put a tank near the outlet, like a scuba tank. Also make sure to put drops in for draining, and a regulator/separator in an easy to reach location.

Running an air line is a piece of cake.  As has been mentioned, be sure to use a drain leg with a shutoff valve and a removable cap to collect any moisture and debris. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 823
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 09:53 AM »
Why not run an air line down to your basement?

I am going to be doing something similar to that when my workshop and paint room are finished. I'm intending to use ½" galvanise pipe for most of the run.
Only thing I would do different is to use copper. Just use type "L" which is thicker.

My preference is for 3/4" piping as it holds air closer to the tool you are using. Another option is to put a tank near the outlet, like a scuba tank. Also make sure to put drops in for draining, and a regulator/separator in an easy to reach location.

I agree with using L copper, much cleaner air will be your reward. In place of a SCUBA tank why not use a small portable air tank?

Of course if like me your garage shop or outbuilding is not connected to your house then not so easy. You'll be trenching and burying pipe and that won't be fun.

WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T USE PLASTIC PIPE IN ANY PART OF YOUR SYSTEM !

Put a TEE in your system where the air enters the basement shop. I would install a water separator in the basement as it will be a low point in your system and collect moisture. I say this because I have worked on installing and maintaining pneumatic control air systems in power plants and refineries for many years and that is what I have seen (water collecting in the low spots of the lines). Worked one place where we ripped out thousands of feet of steel air piping and replaced with copper (4" on down). They made the mistake of 'saving money' during the install and opting for steel pipe and not going with copper right off. 20 years later they were paying quadruple the price for the copper plus having to rip out the old steel piping, valves, etc.
 
Remove the hose from the tank and install a quick connect.

Install another quick connect in your air header.

Make up a jumper hose with one FM and one M quick connect.

Take two Male quick connects, one M x 1/4" M NPT and the other M x 1/4" FM NPT and screw them together.

Use the jumper hose with the double male adapter to connect the air tank to your basement shop air system.

This will do as suggested and give you a reservoir (AKA receiver tank) of air locally which has the capacity to handle intermittent heavy use (greater than the hose alone can supply), and will be constantly recharged by the compressor located in your shop outside. So it's like having the compressor right beside you but the noise is somewhere else.

Bonus is the air tank can be removed and used as a portable air tank as originally designed/intended.

I use a setup like this to recharge my portable air tank to take out in the field to air up tires on tractors, etc. I've also used it as a air source for small jobs that need a air nailer. You don't get many shots out of it but it beats nothing.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 01:43 PM by Bob D. »
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Offline Sometimewoodworker

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Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 10:15 AM »


WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T USE PLASTIC PIPE IN ANY PART OF YOUR SYSTEM !

Would you like to be more clear why a plastic such as PP-R would be such a bad idea. I can understand why PVC would not be good.

Incidentally I have never seen anything other than plastic pipe used as the connection to the air tool.

FWIW copper pipe is not available here as anything other than thin A/C pipe, so it is not an option.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 10:18 AM by Sometimewoodworker »
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, HL 850, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5067
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2018, 10:34 AM »
In my new to me house my workshop is in the basement but my mechanic tools are up in the garage. During assembly I'd like to use a pinner sometimes but I don't want an air compressor in my shop.

Does anyone have any other options or experience to share?

If you aren't going to do much nailing, you could just use a CO2 container. A small one can be placed on a belt for mobile use, while a larger one will obviously last longer. A number of years ago Lowes sold a belt setup under the Kobalt brand. There was a thread on the FOG about it.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/co2-for-nailers/msg476393/#msg476393

http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2014/08/08/power-tank-c02-kits/



« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 10:38 AM by Cheese »

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 247
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2018, 11:25 AM »
In my new to me house my workshop is in the basement but my mechanic tools are up in the garage. During assembly I'd like to use a pinner sometimes but I don't want an air compressor in my shop.

Does anyone have any other options or experience to share?

If you aren't going to do much nailing, you could just use a CO2 container. A small one can be placed on a belt for mobile use, while a larger one will obviously last longer. A number of years ago Lowes sold a belt setup under the Kobalt brand. There was a thread on the FOG about it.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/co2-for-nailers/msg476393/#msg476393

http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2014/08/08/power-tank-c02-kits/

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

And that belt has the added benefit of making me look really good.  ;D "Is that a CO2 tank in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 701
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2018, 12:56 PM »


WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T USE PLASTIC PIPE IN ANY PART OF YOUR SYSTEM !

Would you like to be more clear why a plastic such as PP-R would be such a bad idea. I can understand why PVC would not be good.

Incidentally I have never seen anything other than plastic pipe used as the connection to the air tool.

FWIW copper pipe is not available here as anything other than thin A/C pipe, so it is not an option.
If you can weld PPR go for it! Just use the right type. Not a commonly used product yet in the USA. Plus the cost of the tools required to fuse it adds significantly to a one time job.

It is unfortunately common for people to use PVC pipe as it is cheap, but when it explodes it sends shrapnel across the building. OSHA says no to PVC for air lines. Recommendation not to use PVC is based on safety.

If copper was to burst it will most likely split and not send pieces flying.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 823
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2018, 01:30 PM »


WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T USE PLASTIC PIPE IN ANY PART OF YOUR SYSTEM !

Would you like to be more clear why a plastic such as PP-R would be such a bad idea. I can understand why PVC would not be good.

Incidentally I have never seen anything other than plastic pipe used as the connection to the air tool.

FWIW copper pipe is not available here as anything other than thin A/C pipe, so it is not an option.

Sorry, it's easy to forget this forum has such a wide audience and such little tolerance for even the slightest error when giving advice, which wasn't even directed at you or where you live.

The plastic pipe I was speaking of is PVC or CPVC, which are commonly available here and inexpensive and so many are tempted to use it on compressed air systems. Obviously if your corner of the world doesn't have copper then the recommendation to use copper doesn't apply. The preference for copper was only a recommendation, you do what you want and suffer the consequences if any. I gave an example of why not to use steel pipe, and it holds true for galvanized pipe also.

Here, in the USA, the Mechanical code does not allow the use of PVC pipe for compressed air, nor is it a recommended application by the manufacturers of PVC (and CPVC) pipe. In plumbing systems air testing of DWV piping is not allowed by code. It is often done...at very low pressures...but it's still dangerous even at 5 PSIG. Those codes apply to residential and commercial applications, and other codes and standards apply in industrial settings. but none of them (here in the USA) allow for the use of PVC pipe on compressed air systems.

Compressed air applications are OK for PPR. A similar product is used on compressed air brake lines on trucks. I had to replace a section of the air line on my HUMMER H1 years ago when it got hot and melted because it was too close to the exhaust manifold. The Hummer has an onboard compressor with controls that allow for airing up/down your tires as you drive. It's all piped with air brake line like that used on OTR trucks. Not sure what material it was could have been reinforced nylon but maybe PPR.

At any rate don't build a bomb is basically what I was getting at. Because you don't know when it will explode, could be when you, your kid, or wife is near the pipe and it blows. Or maybe you'll be lucky and no one will get hurt. You odds of getting hurt are probably better than winning the lottery.


As far as you statement about the use of plastic for connections to air tools. I don't think I have ever seen that. What I have seen is reinforced rubber or neoprene (most common) flexible hose, not pipe used for air tool whips (the short, flexible hose attached to the tool) and for flexible connections to hard-piped air systems, your standard 25 or 50 foot, or longer air hose. There is also relatively new the use of reinforced polyethylene plastic hose (not pipe) for air lines. If that is what you are referring to yes I have seen that used and that is it's intended use, not a misapplication like PVC pipe used for air.




« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 01:39 PM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Sometimewoodworker

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Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2018, 04:14 PM »


If you can weld PPR go for it! Just use the right type. Not a commonly used product yet in the USA. Plus the cost of the tools required to fuse it adds significantly to a one time job.


We have the tool required as we are building and the standard PVC becomes brittle very quickly here so I opted for PP-R
286696-0
286698-1

Sorry, it's easy to forget this forum has such a wide audience and such little tolerance for even the slightest error when giving advice, which wasn't even directed at you or where you live.
Given that you were so emphatic about you advice, and it certainly could be appropriate anywhere and to anyone, I was asking for clarification. I was not correcting you.

The plastic pipe I was speaking of is PVC or CPVC, which are commonly available here and inexpensive and so many are tempted to use it on compressed air systems.

Compressed air applications are OK for PPR. A similar product is used on compressed air brake lines on trucks. I had to replace a section of the air line on my HUMMER H1 years ago when it got hot and melted because it was too close to the exhaust manifold. The Hummer has an onboard compressor with controls that allow for airing up/down your tires as you drive. It's all piped with air brake line like that used on OTR trucks. Not sure what material it was could have been reinforced nylon but maybe PPR.

At any rate don't build a bomb is basically what I was getting at. Because you don't know when it will explode, could be when you, your kid, or wife is near the pipe and it blows. Or maybe you'll be lucky and no one will get hurt. You odds of getting hurt are probably better than winning the lottery.


As far as you statement about the use of plastic for connections to air tools. I don't think I have ever seen that. What I have seen is reinforced rubber or neoprene (most common) flexible hose, not pipe used for air tool whips (the short, flexible hose attached to the tool) and for flexible connections to hard-piped air systems, your standard 25 or 50 foot, or longer air hose. There is also relatively new the use of reinforced polyethylene plastic hose (not pipe) for air lines. If that is what you are referring to yes I have seen that used and that is it's intended use, not a misapplication like PVC pipe used for air.

Here, and certainly in other places, there is not a significant difference in meaning between hose and pipe.  The word pipe is used for both rigid and flexible items. You  have hose pipe used In gardening. I use a clear, flexible, pipe to drain my dehumidifier. I would say the difference between flexible pipe and hose would be that hose is most likely to be reinforced

Also here most people have English as a foreign language so the words that are understood become common, the word hose is seldom if ever used by the local population.

Neither reinforced rubber, neoprene, or reinforced polyethylene plastic (hose)pipe are common connections due to price. The commonly used connection is PU (tube, pipe or hose) that unfortunately has a limited lifespan but is cheap so easily replaced.

I completely agree that rigid PVC/CPVC is an accident waiting to happen with compressed air, and quite possibly ABS is equally dangerous.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 04:26 PM by Sometimewoodworker »
Jerome
TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, CXS, HL 850, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone, Workshop supplies drum sander, & WoodRat. Don't have don't want list: MFT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3664
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2018, 07:21 PM »
And that belt has the added benefit of making me look really good.  ;D "Is that a CO2 tank in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

BA-HAHAHAHA!!!    [big grin]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline JimD

  • Posts: 348
Re: Cordless pinners/nailers
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2018, 09:16 PM »
My only cordless nailer is a 18 gauge Ryobi.  I can't remember it ever not seating a brad but I rarely use it on hardwood.  If I was in the market, I would strongly consider their 23 gauge, I think their nailers are good.

I have an old Bostitch compressor with a 6 gallon tank that I need to move out of my shop into the garage.  I do not use it in the shop because of noise.  I bought a 1 gallon Senco for about $100 that is much quieter.  I normally use that with my Bostitch 23 gauge pinner.  It drives pins into hardwood fine.  My most recent compressor purchase is another Ryobi cordless.  It runs on the 18V batteries I have a collection of.  It will drive nailers nicely (but not for a real long time) and is very portable at 15 lbs.  I bought it more for tires but I am sure I will use it for the nailers too.  It is a regular compressor with a regulator, just small driven by a battery.   

So lots of options.