Author Topic: Dust collection setup questions  (Read 3052 times)

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3218
Dust collection setup questions
« on: June 05, 2017, 09:30 AM »
Got lucky this past weekend and picked up for a good price a Grizzly wall mounted dust collector (the G0710) along with a 25 ft. clear flexible 4" hose.  Since I don't have any huge stationary machinery, I've been able to get by over the years running the DC in my shop off my Shop Vac and CT.  But with this unit, I can now suck up the dust for heavier applications like when using the lunchbox planer or the table saw.

Question: I was testing out the machine with basic shop cleaning, and a couple of times when it sucked up a large item (a large piece of plastic foil, a leaf), the debris got caught in the grate built in to the machine between the hose inlet and the fan, causing a reduction in suction.  I guess the cure for this is a dust separator, where items would get deposited in a bin before they go through the machine into the bag?

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I'm new to dedicated dust collection, so I'm wondering what a good separator option is.  I see that they sell these lids that you put on top of metal trash cans -- supposedly it's better to use metal than plastic for grounding purposes?  Do you have to put some sort of weather stripping around the top rim to form a tight seal?  Besides the metal can and store bought lid, what are my other options for a separator? 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 09:33 AM by Edward A Reno III »
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

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Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 99
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2017, 09:51 AM »
I originally tried the plastic trash can lid type separator and abandoned it because it just didn't work well enough to be worth it.  A lot of folks have had good success with a home made separator.  Do a search for Thien Baffle as they look pretty straight forward to build economically.  The Oneida type also work pretty well.

For all separators, one needs a very tight seal to the collection bin to be effective.  Any small leak greatly reduces both air flow and the ability of the separator bin to collect chips.  I ultimately went with a 3HP Oneida cyclone, but it was a big expense and if done properly, a pre-separator can be a good add on to a dust collector.  Even when done well, just about any pre-separator will have at least a slight negative impact on flow, so that needs to be taken in to account.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1615
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2017, 11:29 AM »
...and a couple of times when it sucked up a large item (a large piece of plastic foil, a leaf), the debris got caught in the grate built in to the machine between the hose inlet and the fan, causing a reduction in suction.

On the first extractor I had, there were protectionary "fins" over the air inlet in an attempt to cover some sort of safety requirement to stop you sticking your hand in to the plastic blades of the impeller, or I guess having something large sucked up that could cause damage. Most people I know remove this protection.

I wasn't personally happy that this design was fit for purpose as my extractor was blocking with shavings under normal use and so had it replaced with a higher-end model. Ironically, that had a larger bore size, yet nothing to stop you sticking your hand into the *metal* blades!

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2017, 12:50 PM »
Hi Edward

Oneida do a 4" cyclone - The Super Dust Deputy. It sells for just over $200 in the US. It comes with a very small drop box made of glued paper and has a rather awkward big spring clip to fix the cyclone to the drop box. As far as I know Oneida do not sell the cyclone on its own - that would be a good idea if they did.

The cyclone is made from the conductive black plastic that we have seen with the UDD. There is no need for a pressure relief valve as it is very sturdy and nicely designed.

The 4" inlet and outlet connector are the right size for standard hoses.

Peter

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1615
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2017, 01:08 PM »
Oneida do a 4" cyclone - The Super Dust Deputy. It sells for just over $200 in the US. It comes with a very small drop box made of glued paper and has a rather awkward big spring clip to fix the cyclone to the drop box. As far as I know Oneida do not sell the cyclone on its own - that would be a good idea if they did.

Hi Peter - the Super Dust Deputy has 5" connectors and is indeed available in the "DIY" version which is the cyclone only for $169 from the Oneida site at https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD002030A

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 01:40 PM »
Hi Garry,

They have several sizes in the Super DD set and this now includes a 4" version. They are being sold in the UK by Toolovation but are a dash pricey.

Peter

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1615
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 01:51 PM »
Hadn't noticed the nuance of the DIY version being 5" and the kit being 4" so thanks for the clarification Peter.

I've seen the prices at Toolovation; an unfortunate side effect of the dollar/pound conversion I guess. Shame there isn't decent UK availability of a good cyclone.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3218
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 06:11 AM »
Thanks for the suggestion on the Super DD.  I'll check it out, though I will feel a bit defeated if I have to spend more money on the separator than I paid for the dust collector!

The grate that hinders large particles is unfortunately part of the casting of the machine, so I would have to sawzall it out.  Probably not a good idea though, as I always have rags and such lying around the shop that occasionally get sucked up by my vacs when I'm less than careful while cleaning -- my shop vac gobbles them up no problem, but they would probably damage the fan on the Grizzly. 
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 140
    • In The Woodshop
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 09:00 AM »
Hi Edward

I have a Super Dust Deputy into a steel bin. Suction comes from a 2 hp DC with pleated filter. Since installing it, the SDD has done an amazing job of collecting everything that would have gone through the DC and into its plastic bag. Well worth the purchase.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 160
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 09:46 AM »
Edward, I have the wall mount vac set up with just my table saw, it runs thru a Rockler dust separator barrel  (under a $100 to your door) and nothing but a little bit ever gets to the vac, and if an occasional rag, or anything of size, from cleaning up the area around the saw gets sucked up, it's in the seperator barrel...if not this brand something like it may work well for you.
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline Mismarked

  • Posts: 119
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 10:49 AM »
Edward, I did the SDD as well, with a cheap harbor freight dust collector.  I got the 5" and reduced it to a 4" hose (I didn't realize the 4" SDD was available at the time). 
I have the metal bin as well, which is kinda small if you are jointing or planing a lot of stuff, and as Peter mentioned, the spring clip is somewhat awkward.  If I had to do it again, I probably would have gotten a larger bin, maybe one of those cardboard drums from ULINE.
That said, with a Wynn filter and a clear plastic collection bag, the system works great.  I can tell if the bin is full as soon as even the smallest amount of saw dust goes into the clear collection bag.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3218
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 11:18 AM »
@Mismarked What Wynn filter did you use for the SDD?

Edward, I did the SDD as well, with a cheap harbor freight dust collector.  I got the 5" and reduced it to a 4" hose (I didn't realize the 4" SDD was available at the time). 
I have the metal bin as well, which is kinda small if you are jointing or planing a lot of stuff, and as Peter mentioned, the spring clip is somewhat awkward.  If I had to do it again, I probably would have gotten a larger bin, maybe one of those cardboard drums from ULINE.
That said, with a Wynn filter and a clear plastic collection bag, the system works great.  I can tell if the bin is full as soon as even the smallest amount of saw dust goes into the clear collection bag.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Mismarked

  • Posts: 119
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2017, 12:20 PM »
35A274NANO Cartridge Kit   $188.00. 
I will try to take and post a picture of my setup this afternoon.  I took apart the Harbor Freight unit and put everything into a tall rolling cabinet so that I could use it to hang clamps and other stuff on the sides of the cabinet, rather than having the dust collection thing just take up a bunch of floor space.

Offline Mismarked

  • Posts: 119
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2017, 01:19 PM »
Here are a couple of photos.  Not the prettiest thing, and still a work in progress.

In the first photo, it is hard to see because it is black, but the SDD sits in a hole cut in the top of the bottom cabinet.  The metal bin attaches to the bottom flange of the SDD with about 3 inches clearance from the bottom, which gives me room to unlatch and remove the bin.  I am going to mount some kind of wedge-shaped removable support underneath to make the bin easier to put back on and latch.

The other side has the dust collector mounted in the top cabinet directly above the SDD with the Wynn filter and collection bag hanging off the side.  Frees up a little floor space.

I plan to add more tool racks on the sides but haven't had time.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3218
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2017, 06:40 PM »
Thanks @Mismarked That's a nice space-maximizing set-up.  I will have to go a bit lower profile, as the only wall space I have left in the shop is behind the ladder that accesses the loft.  But I've calculated that it will be large enough for a SDD and bin.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3218
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2017, 12:43 PM »
SDD arrived and I hooked it up last night. Gonna test it this weekend with the thickness planer, which was what was creating the clogging that prompted me to purchase the SDD in the first place.

I may invest in better tubing at some point, but for the moment I just wanted to get it hooked up and so I used that cheap powered expandable hose to connect SDD to the DC. I think the hose will not be long for this world though as I noticed a small tear where I tightened the hose clamps ( maybe I need more appropriate clamps as well - the metal straps look like they can't help but cut into the hose).

I'm a little unsure about how much of a seal you're supposed to have on the DC itself at the point of output into the bag. When I run the collector there seems to be some air leaking out. It is not accompanied by a cloud of dust however (which happened once when i didnt tighten the hose clamp properly around the foam gasket) -- maybe it's just that this type of DC system being open, as opposed to the closed system of a shop vac, the air has to escape somewhere, and whatever doesn't come out the pores of the bag escapes through the top?
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3218
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2017, 01:11 PM »
Nevermore on the air leakage. I just realized it's actually coming from the vents in the motor.  It's just that the airflow hitting the side of the unit makes it appear like it's coming from the bag.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline X

  • Posts: 4
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2017, 12:04 PM »
Edward,

I recently installed dust collection system with a Grizzly ( G0785 ) dust collector with a dust deputy 4". I haven't used it much but when I did there was no dust in the dust collector bag all in the dust deputy drum.

264801-0

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3218
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 01:18 PM »
Just want to say how happy I am with my new wall mount DC and SDD setup.  Back in the old days (one month ago), when I needed to thickness wood, I hooked up my planer to my 16 gallon shop vac -- when the bag got full, which was much less than 16 gallons because of the filter assembly in the middle, I had to take it out, suck out the dust from the bag with my Festool CT, doing so carefully so as not to rip the bag.  It would eventually rip though after doing this 3 or 4 times.  I did this so as to save on the expense of spending hundreds of dollars on Shop Vac bags, since I could empty and reuse the long life bag on the CT.  When planing boards, though, I would have to go through this process an average of 2 to 3 times per session -- more if I were doing a lot of boards.

It's much easier now with the drum under the SDD, which has a true 16 gallon capacity, with spillover to the bag on the DC itself.  The only extra expense are the garbage bags I empty the dust into.

I'm just thinking about all this as I take down 8/4 timber to 1 1/4 on the planer.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 579
Re: Dust collection setup questions
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2017, 08:16 PM »
"I'll check it out, though I will feel a bit defeated if I have to spend more money on the separator than I paid for the dust collector!"

I wouldn't feel that way because the separator is the piece of the system that does the most important work.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?