Author Topic: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter  (Read 13715 times)

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Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 180
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2017, 04:46 PM »
I measured the amperage draw of my 735 before and after the cutterhead change and the Byrd heade was indeed drawing about 7% more amperage than stock.

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 774
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2017, 05:16 PM »
@Bob D.

If you had a line splitter you could learn how many amps your machine is pulling.  Here is a which may help.

Your 20A circuit should not be tripping the breaker, if as you noted, it is the only appliance/tool being run on that circuit.  However, because you mentioned the ambient temp being in the low 30s when this happens, I wonder if the 735 has inherent friction affected by the cold temp which dissipates when the machine has been run?

Just a guess on my part.

Yes, added friction from some stiff lubricant somewhere was my thought too, maybe the bearings as it never did this until 2 winters ago, and as I said my machine is about 10 years old IIRC.

I have a splitter and know how to measure the current, just haven't bothered.
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Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 180
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2017, 07:54 AM »
The stop is adjustable at least on mine!, just loosen the nut, move the screw to the correct height and tighten it back up. You have to be careful when tightening it up, it tends to move the screw as you're tightening the nut.


Thanks for that tip tdwill1!

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 180
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2017, 07:59 AM »
I think part of the increased current draw from the Byrd head is due to the geometry of the cutters...because the cutting edge is skewed to the toolpath and overlapped between rows there is more contact area between cutters and wood than a straight blade head.  The work done to remove wood is the same but the increased frictional area takes more power to drive.

Offline jdw101

  • Posts: 68
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2017, 12:44 PM »
I have this planer and the cutterhead but I haven't installed it yet.  The planer came with an extra set of knives and I try and do most of my stock prep by hand until I have mastered it. 

The reason I am posting is I wanted to express how shockingly nice the face of the boards are when they come out of this planer with the steel knives.  I almost could not believe it.  I fed in some pretty nasty grained quilted maple and it came out like glass.  Granted, the first thing to touch the initial knives but it was amazing.

I ordered the Byrd Shelix and it took 6 months to get, ordered it 3 months before Christmas last year and got it about a month ago.  It's still in the box, I have to get through the first set of knives and then the extra set I got with the kit. 

One thing though, I am kind of wishing I had ordered the head that was a little larger around (The one where you have to screw in the cutters after it is installed) because it just seems like it would be nicer to have the extra cut.

I also felt I got a pretty nice deal on it, I bought the head and complete additional set of cutters for less than 600 USD.  At one point I remember the cutter costing near that alone.  Thanks for all the good info,  I also bought the digital gauge everyone is using.  Have to get the cutter on before I do that too!

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 144
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2017, 02:46 PM »
@jdw101

Thanks for your post.

Best of luck getting the cutter installed.  Please let us know about the install and the difference it makes to your workflow. 
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2018, 10:14 AM »
I think part of the increased current draw from the Byrd head is due to the geometry of the cutters...because the cutting edge is skewed to the toolpath and overlapped between rows there is more contact area between cutters and wood than a straight blade head.  The work done to remove wood is the same but the increased frictional area takes more power to drive.

Because the cutting inserts are skewed with the Byrd head, there is never a time when the cutters are not engaged in the wood being planed, whereas with the standard 3 blade setup, there is some relief every 120º of rotation.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2018, 11:52 AM »
A couple of weeks ago I installed the Byrd Shelix in my 735.  I ordered the smaller diameter version with new bearings installed and it took around 90 minutes for the install.
The only issue was the size of the snap ring pliers needed. Make sure you have a large enough pliers on hand. I'd suggest pulling off the side cover of the planer first and checking the pin diameter needed for the snap ring. Standard snap ring pliers have tips that are too small while the pliers I use for transmission center bearings is too large.  [sad]

In the photo below, the cutterhead shaft is the one in the middle. Look at it closely and you can see the black snap ring and the size of the tips that the snap ring pliers needs to have. Also, the snap ring is probably .090" thick so you need a lot of leverage to remove it.

My observations:
Wow, what a difference in noise level. [big grin] There was approximately a -10dB reduction in noise as measured with an app on my phone. That's a perceived noise level reduction of 50%.

I had previously planed some Ambrosia maple with the standard 3 blade setup and in some areas I was getting tear-out that was 1/16" deep. That's the reason I put this drawer front project on hold until I could order/receive/install the Byrd cutter head.

Incredible, I replaned the troubled tear-out areas on the Ambrosia and they are absolutely smooth. Almost like they had been run through a Timesaver. I'm way impressed...I should have purchased/installed the Byrd head 8 years ago!!!

This is a no-brainer improvement for the DW735.  [thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 09:47 AM by Cheese »

Offline jlt23

  • Posts: 11
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2018, 06:38 PM »
Do you guys recommend the smaller diameter or OEM Shelix head?

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 774
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2018, 10:08 PM »
Glad to hear the conversion went well and of the noise reduction.

I bought the head a while back but haven't installed it yet. I need to get around to doing that though as I have a project I want to start which I will need to plane some cherry.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Cutter Head
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2018, 10:21 AM »
One more observation after I ran a bunch of the Ambrosia through the planer.  With the Shelix, there is a slight ripple across the surface of the board. It can be felt and it can be seen but it is quickly removed with just a swipe of the ETS EC 125/150 and 180 grit Granat.

The ripple is consistent and runs in the .001" to .0015" range. Not a big deal and I'd still rather have the Shelix head rather than the standard 3-blade setup.  The ripple is probably just the result of the design of any helical cutter head.

I'd be interested in hearing if others have experienced the ripple effect with other brands of helical cutter heads.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 01:05 PM by Cheese »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2018, 05:25 PM »
 @Cheese Any idea what the actual size is on the snap ring pin? 

Seth

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2018, 05:51 PM »
Sorry Seth, I never measured it. I do know that’s it’s larger than .070” though because that size tip was too small. It’s probably close to .100” or maybe a little more.   [tongue]

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3506
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Cutter Head
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2018, 07:50 PM »
The individual blades on the Shelix are slightly convex, which is what I assume causes the ripple.  I get the same effect on mine, but as you said, easily removed.  You definitely win the OCD award though @Cheese for actually measuring it!

I also still get snipe on my planer, though not a function of the Shelix.  I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the differential pressure applied by the front vs. the back roller, as I can definitely feel the board pop slightly when the front roller engages it, and the moment of engagement always marks the point of the board where you see the level change from the snipe. 

Anyone every mucked around with adjusting the roller pressure on the 735?

One more observation after I ran a bunch of the Ambrosia through the planer.  With the Shelix, there is a slight ripple across the surface of the board. It can be felt and it can be seen but it is quickly removed with just a swipe of the ETS EC 125/150 and 180 grit Granat.

The ripple is consistent and runs in the .001" to .0015" range. Not a big deal and I'd still rather have the Shelix head rather than the standard 3-blade setup.  The ripple is probably just the result of the design of any helical cutter head.

I'd be interested in hearing if others have experienced the ripple effect with other brands of helical cutter heads.
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Cutter Head
« Reply #74 on: February 27, 2018, 10:20 PM »
You definitely win the OCD award though @Cheese for actually measuring it!

I also still get snipe on my planer, though not a function of the Shelix.  I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the differential pressure applied by the front vs. the back roller, as I can definitely feel the board pop slightly when the front roller engages it, and the moment of engagement always marks the point of the board where you see the level change from the snipe. 

Anyone every mucked around with adjusting the roller pressure on the 735?
Well thanks for the award Edward...it’s the perfect solution for an engineers conundrum. To measure or to not measure...aye, there’s the rub.  [smile]

As far as snipe goes, I’m still working on that issue. There has to be a way to mitigate this issue short of just throwing $$$$$ at it.

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 325
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2018, 11:24 PM »
@Cheese @ear3 do you think this has to do with the undersized head and increased downforce of the rollers since the “zero” plane has shifted? I.e. you have to make up the .006” radius difference.

I am trying to evaluate this before I buy.
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Offline SRSemenza

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Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2018, 11:28 PM »
Sorry Seth, I never measured it. I do know that’s it’s larger than .070” though because that size tip was too small. It’s probably close to .100” or maybe a little more.   [tongue]


Well come on man, pop that thing open again and measure it! I need to buy some pliers. 

On second thought I will just get every size.  [scratch chin]  Yup, that's a better plan.  [big grin]


Seth

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2018, 12:11 AM »
@Cheese @ear3 do you think this has to do with the undersized head and increased downforce of the rollers since the “zero” plane has shifted? I.e. you have to make up the .006” radius difference.

I am trying to evaluate this before I buy.

You’ve got a good point, but I think it actually snipes less than the original 3 blade version. The snipe is in the .002”-.008” range. It’s not consistent which really drives me crazy.  Before the Shelix conversion it would snipe in the .015” range all day long. It got so bad that I’d just go to a local wood vendor and pay to have him run the boards through his timesaver.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2018, 12:13 AM »
Well come on man, pop that thing open again and measure it! I need to buy some pliers. 

Always a comedian in the house... [poke]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 12:18 AM by Cheese »

Offline Rob Z

  • Posts: 697
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2018, 12:22 AM »
Cheese, you mentioned a 10db reduction in sound with the Shelix cutter. I think that is what was advertised for the  " silent power " upgrade on my Hammer A3-31.  Wow, what a difference it makes. [eek]

I don't recall what the upcharge was, but it was well worth it.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2018, 12:58 AM »
Cheese, you mentioned a 10db reduction in sound with the Shelix cutter. I think that is what was advertised for the  " silent power " upgrade on my Hammer A3-31.  Wow, what a difference it makes. [eek]

I don't recall what the upcharge was, but it was well worth it.
Hey Rob I’m with you...
You can jack your jaw all day long about how quiet the helical cutter head is but once you fire it up and hear it... it’s in one word...UNBELIEVABLE. I think it’s all a function of the design of the helical cutter head.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3255
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2018, 06:57 AM »
The valley of snipe, how far from the end of the board on that machine?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2018, 08:44 AM »
The valley of snipe, how far from the end of the board on that machine?

It’s always 2.5” from either end.

Offline Rob Z

  • Posts: 697
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2018, 09:12 AM »
Cheese, it's so "quiet " that I can even run material through it without HP.  I don't do it, of course, but it really is that "unloud".  Is that a word?  [blink] LOL

My goal is to get my current equipment sold so I can buy a Hammer combination machine  for my new, much smaller shop space.  One thing that must be spec'd on the new equipment is the silent power.  I'll do without the mobility kit, the dado unit, etc etc before I'll skip the upgrade to silent power.

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 325
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2018, 12:15 PM »
@Cheese @ear3 do you think this has to do with the undersized head and increased downforce of the rollers since the “zero” plane has shifted? I.e. you have to make up the .006” radius difference.

I am trying to evaluate this before I buy.

You’ve got a good point, but I think it actually snipes less than the original 3 blade version. The snipe is in the .002”-.008” range. It’s not consistent which really drives me crazy.  Before the Shelix conversion it would snipe in the .015” range all day long. It got so bad that I’d just go to a local wood vendor and pay to have him run the boards through his timesaver.

Interesting. I agree with the inconsistency in snipe, but mine is no where near .015" mine is usually small enough to sand out. I just have the metal outfeed tables. My issues are with the feed rollers slipping every once and a while.
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2018, 01:48 PM »
Interesting. I agree with the inconsistency in snipe, but mine is no where near .015" mine is usually small enough to sand out. I just have the metal outfeed tables. My issues are with the feed rollers slipping every once and a while.

I also have feed roller issues from time to time.  [mad]

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1763
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2018, 05:29 PM »
You may already do this, but the rollers perform much better and more consistently if cleaned periodically(especially when they start to slip). I clean mine with denatured alcohol but mineral spirits work. Over time deposits from the wood build up on the rollers and this can cause them to slip. As I said, this may be something you already do.
Randy

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4205
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2018, 08:44 PM »
You may already do this, but the rollers perform much better and more consistently if cleaned periodically(especially when they start to slip). I clean mine with denatured alcohol but mineral spirits work. Over time deposits from the wood build up on the rollers and this can cause them to slip. As I said, this may be something you already do.

Thanks for the info  🙏  I'll try some alcohol on the rollers tomorrow. [big grin]

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3506
Re: DW735 Planer and Byrd Shelix Head Cutter
« Reply #88 on: March 01, 2018, 04:51 PM »
Huh, I didn't think of that, but perhaps that's a contributing factor?  The weird thing is that there are still times when I run a board through and get NO snipe (this tends to be softwood, however).  I initially thought it might just be a function of the in/outfeed tables, but then i notice it happening on small pieces where those tables didn't come into play.

The snipe is never that bad.  I leave excess where possible that I waste off when I trim to length, but I have left the boards as is as well, and when doing things like dominoing the ends I just have to plan for a bit more sanding.



@Cheese @ear3 do you think this has to do with the undersized head and increased downforce of the rollers since the “zero” plane has shifted? I.e. you have to make up the .006” radius difference.

I am trying to evaluate this before I buy.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3