Author Topic: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads  (Read 1409 times)

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Offline Marlow

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Wondering if anyone has had any experience using the SCM/Minimax Xylent spiral cutter block on a jointer/planer?  Not much info available on the web. Ideally, I'd like to see direct comparison of this head to the Felder and/or Byrd.

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Offline Timtool

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Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 11:15 AM »
I have the Felder and when I look at the SCM I have the impression that it's a "fake" spiral block. The individual knives appear to be practically parallel to the block, instead of following the spiral curve like the Felder does. So you wouldn't have the "shearing" effect that makes spiral blocks interesting.

Perhaps this can be confirmed by the fact that it uses (or not) special curved cutters like the Felder, and not standard square cutters.

You would still have the advantage of spreading out the cuts, but it would still hack the wood and not shear it. But then it has 3 rows and a more aggressive spiral shape, so perhaps that makes up for it.
It's all assumptions based on the pics though!
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Offline Marlow

  • Posts: 55
Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 02:29 PM »
Interesting observations, but of course the proof of performance will be in the pudding, i.e., the quality of cut judged by those that have actually used these.  The SCM xylent head has been available in Europe, but I get the impression that its not in wide use (yet) here in the US.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 377
Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2017, 08:51 AM »
Some solid information on after market helical cutterheads:

https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/tools/introduction-helical-cutter-heads

(May be dated…)
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline Marlow

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Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 10:24 AM »
Good article: too bad they left out the Felder head (and the article does pre-date the availability of the SCM Xylent head). 

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 103
Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 02:14 PM »
I have the Felder and when I look at the SCM I have the impression that it's a "fake" spiral block. The individual knives appear to be practically parallel to the block, instead of following the spiral curve like the Felder does. So you wouldn't have the "shearing" effect that makes spiral blocks interesting.

Not sure what you mean by 'fake spiral block'?  They look almost identical to me, what am I missing?

Felder


SCM


Online RobBob

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Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2017, 02:34 PM »
@J0hn

For one thing, judging by the pictures you posted, the SCM cutters look like they are square to the board while the Felder cutters are set at an angle, giving a shearing cut.  The shearing cut gives less tear out, little to no scalloping and a smoother finish, almost like a card scraper.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 03:05 PM by RobBob »

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 377
Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2017, 02:57 PM »
I tried to find some info regarding patents and my impression is that cutterheads with an axial placement are covered in this patent:
http://www.google.ac/patents/US5083887
… and manufacturers either have to license it or work around it by placing the cutters parallel to the 'face'.

I may be completely wrong (probably am).
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline Timtool

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Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2017, 02:58 PM »

Not sure what you mean by 'fake spiral block'?  They look almost identical to me, what am I missing?

As Rob mentioned, on the Felder you can clearly see that the cutters are placed at an angle, while on the SCM they look almost parallel to the block.
They don't look perfectly parallel but the angle is clearly lesser than the Felder, the close up also shows that the cutters appear rounded like on the Felder. Those cutters are expensive, I would certainly try to find out how much there are on the block and how much they cost.
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 103
Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 03:46 PM »
OK - I see what you guys are saying now, thanks for 'schooling' me  :)

Offline TheSergeant

  • Posts: 67
Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2017, 04:19 PM »
Also note the carbide inserts on the Bryd heads are curved slightly, almost like how you camber the edges on a hand plane blade.  My suspicion is that this reduces 'track marks' left on the surface.  I have a Shelix head on for my Dewalt 735 but haven't installed it yet.  I just picked up a new old stock 1991 Delta DC-33 13" planer and want to run that through it's paces before I commit to the 735.  I'm kind of hoping I prefer the 735 just because a Shelix head on the Delta is more than 2x the cost of the 735 at ~$900. 

If it were me I'd take a closer look at the Bryd heads. 

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2017, 04:33 PM »
I'd like to see/hear a comparison of the Silent and Xilent cutter heads, and the Byrd Shelix.

Offline Marlow

  • Posts: 55
Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2017, 04:40 PM »
Michael: So would I, which is why I posted this inquiry.  It would appear that there are not many users of the Xylent (or I've also seen it as Xilent) cutter head yet in the US.  It would be nice to see some positive press on this: all that I've been able to find are reports of how quiet it is: that is nice, but it has to plane beautifully as well.  Marlow

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2017, 05:13 PM »
Michael: So would I, which is why I posted this inquiry.  It would appear that there are not many users of the Xylent (or I've also seen it as Xilent) cutter head yet in the US.  It would be nice to see some positive press on this: all that I've been able to find are reports of how quiet it is: that is nice, but it has to plane beautifully as well.  Marlow

Literally, as in the photo above.

Offline Marlow

  • Posts: 55
Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2017, 05:32 PM »
Exactly.  Xilent/Xylent.  Maybe its a translation thing, but I've seen it in SCM documentation both ways???

Offline Steven Owen

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Re: Felder Silent vs. SCM/Minimax Xylent vs. Byrd Cutterblocks/Heads
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2017, 12:59 AM »
The helical blade look promising.  The Dewalt 735 sells for $699 in Canada including the shelves.  The Byrd cost $500 per a cutting head.  You need two of them.  The irony is you’ll spend more on the helical cutters than you ever did in the machine.

It’s kind of like buying an ink jet printer.  The parts cost more than the machine.

The biggest mistake people make is not buying the OEM Byrd cutting heads.  The non OEM sized throws the DW 735 depth out by 1/16 making the machine work harder with more passes which results in a small amount of snipe. 

The OEM blades give a much cleaner cut on the DW 735.