Author Topic: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?  (Read 13704 times)

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Offline neilc

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2018, 08:27 AM »
Just got my Shaper this week.  Build quality is first rate.  Software auto updated when I connected it to WiFi.  Have not yet cut anything but the active Shaper community suggests it has a lot of potential from early work examples. 

Tallgrass, appreciate your POV and look forward to seeing how you use it.

Will share more as I learn and explore.

Neil
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 08:30 AM by neilc »

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Offline Cheese

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2018, 09:48 AM »
As far as work flow. It is a different kettle of fish to the classic cnc. This one is far more intuitive to the person familiar with a router and a cell phone. :)

Some interesting thoughts you've generated.

Let's take an example of the average guy...say me for instance. [big grin] 

I'm capable of creating 2D Autocad CAD drawings...that's it, no 3D, no vector stuff, g code, FEA or anything else along those lines. Worse yet, I'm really not interested in generating all of those other things.  [tongue] 

So...
How would I be impacted if I purchased a Shaper and just wanted to use it?

Would my current skill level allow me to produce items easily with the Shaper?

What else would I need to learn to efficiently use the Shaper?

Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2018, 10:47 AM »
As far as work flow. It is a different kettle of fish to the classic cnc. This one is far more intuitive to the person familiar with a router and a cell phone. :)

Some interesting thoughts you've generated.

Let's take an example of the average guy...say me for instance. [big grin] 

I'm capable of creating 2D Autocad CAD drawings...that's it, no 3D, no vector stuff, g code, FEA or anything else along those lines. Worse yet, I'm really not interested in generating all of those other things.  [tongue] 

So...
How would I be impacted if I purchased a Shaper and just wanted to use it?

Would my current skill level allow me to produce items easily with the Shaper?

What else would I need to learn to efficiently use the Shaper?

@Cheese - I haven't received my SO yet but have spent many hours obsessing over studying it.

To use the SO all you need are 2D files in SVG format. There is a plugin for F360 that will generate them from 3D model and has some nice feature like identifying inside versus outside cuts but that can also be handled on-tool easily. A new SO owner also wrote a Sketchup plugin but I haven't see it in action yet.

I believe most any drawing software can save as SVG. Apparently there are a ton of free graphic files available online like kitty cats, bunnies, AR-15's...

Their delivery pace has ramped up dramatically in the past week, I may only have to continue taking Valium for another month or so.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Cheese

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2018, 11:03 AM »
Good to know Richard, thanks for the info. I'll check on the Autocad/SVG thing.  [smile]

Hmmmm AR-15...maybe right next to the laser level...


Offline Gjarman12

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2018, 11:53 AM »
It is amazing what you can do “on-tool”. Shapes, such as circles, rectangles and lines are a breeze. Off-setting, inlaying, mortises, concentric circles, dados, creating a grid as a reference to do so many things and even so much more.
All of this without touching a computer.
Box joints are also coming at some point.

Offline neilc

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2018, 04:43 PM »
There are a couple of guys on the Shaper forum that are starting to create very simple web-based tools that will export an SVG file.  They include rectangles, circles, hole layouts like for an MFT, finger joints, etc.  Enter a few numbers, generate a file, download to a flash drive and load into Shaper.   Shaper with this type of download can easily replicate the LR32 for 32mm hole spacing.  Heck, jump to 16mm spacing for more adjustability if you want.  In time, more could live 'on-tool' but there's no reason it could not be smartphone-app enabled for easy and fast utility to create and share to on-tool cutting.

I think you will see more of these capabilities showing up 'on-tool' in time as the Shaper team releases new updates.  There are already plug-ins for Fusion 360 and as of this week Sketchup for generating a SVG file from a face in a drawing and downloading it.  So the momentum has the potential to continue to build.

Follow-ons I expect will be sharing of completed designs - whether CAD files or SVG downloads for others to reuse or edit for their own use.

We've all see plans with 'materials lists' or 'cultists'  - but they have been limited by size / cost of the equipment.  Shaper is expensive to start but in time will enable some really interesting redefinition of 'woodworking'

Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2018, 04:59 PM »
There are a couple of guys on the Shaper forum that are starting to create very simple web-based tools that will export an SVG file.  They include rectangles, circles, hole layouts like for an MFT, finger joints, etc.  Enter a few numbers, generate a file, download to a flash drive and load into Shaper.   Shaper with this type of download can easily replicate the LR32 for 32mm hole spacing.  Heck, jump to 16mm spacing for more adjustability if you want.  In time, more could live 'on-tool' but there's no reason it could not be smartphone-app enabled for easy and fast utility to create and share to on-tool cutting.

I think you will see more of these capabilities showing up 'on-tool' in time as the Shaper team releases new updates.  There are already plug-ins for Fusion 360 and as of this week Sketchup for generating a SVG file from a face in a drawing and downloading it.  So the momentum has the potential to continue to build.

Follow-ons I expect will be sharing of completed designs - whether CAD files or SVG downloads for others to reuse or edit for their own use.

We've all see plans with 'materials lists' or 'cultists'  - but they have been limited by size / cost of the equipment.  Shaper is expensive to start but in time will enable some really interesting redefinition of 'woodworking'

Yea That online script let's you enter a hole diameter, center to center spacing, # of holes per row and column and presto instant MFT template file. Download as SVG and be cutting in minutes.

The SO also let's you cut a hole and then fine tune by recutting with an offset measured in thousandths. No fuss fine tuning to fit your dog's.

Someone did an mft top and checked the parallel and perpendicular result and the we're within a few thou.

Dang I can't wait...

RMW.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 05:01 PM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2018, 05:04 PM »
Just got my Shaper this week.  Build quality is first rate.  Software auto updated when I connected it to WiFi.  Have not yet cut anything but the active Shaper community suggests it has a lot of potential from early work examples. 

Tallgrass, appreciate your POV and look forward to seeing how you use it.

Will share more as I learn and explore.

Neil

Neil, you GOT IT THIS WEEK and you HAVEN'T CUT ANYTHING???

Shame!

RMW.
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline rst

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2018, 05:17 PM »
I got mine Monday but other than unpacking haven't had time to use...been too busy moving snow.  I'm 65 now and moving half mile of snow between my house (double lot in town), in-laws (large corner lot), and business (in town, corner, three storefronts and parking lot), this is getting OLD.  I've spent every extra moment watching vids and deciding what to do first.

Offline neilc

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2018, 06:33 PM »
Richard - it showed up late Tuesday.  Been tied up with work.  I'll get underway with it before the weekend is out, after dealing with our Chicago snowstorm - 9-12" on the way!

Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2018, 06:59 PM »
Richard - it showed up late Tuesday.  Been tied up with work.  I'll get underway with it before the weekend is out, after dealing with our Chicago snowstorm - 9-12" on the way!

Not a bad thing to be snowed in with your new toy.

Enjoy & stay warm.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Online Richard/RMW

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2018, 07:02 PM »
PS - no big mystery but I'm RMW over on the SO forum also. Pretty sure I've recognized a few FOG'ers there but is anyone using a dramatically different handle over there?

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2018, 11:01 PM »

As far as work flow. It is a different kettle of fish to the classic cnc. This one is far more intuitive to the person familiar with a router and a cell phone. 


Some interesting thoughts you've generated.

Let's take an example of the average guy...say me for instance.   

I'm capable of creating 2D Autocad CAD drawings...that's it, no 3D, no vector stuff, g code, FEA or anything else along those lines. Worse yet, I'm really not interested in generating all of those other things.   

So...
How would I be impacted if I purchased a Shaper and just wanted to use it?

Would my current skill level allow me to produce items easily with the Shaper?

What else would I need to learn to efficiently use the Shaper?


I have probably 40+ hours on my "SO" it is holding up wonderfully. This a unique tool. Unlike classic cnc you can work right from the tool. this is fantastic. So as for you experience, the more comfortable you are with cad the better. Knowing more is always better than knowing less. However this machine is fundamentally different. while the basics of tool position and offsets ect. are there they manifest in a far more intuitive fashion. this is good. The general term for feeds and speed and which tooling is generally referred to as the recipe, in lang. Getting that right can be quite a nightmare. This tool is closer to the hand held router in ease. The big downside it the serious restriction in how the cutting goes. This can not be over estimated. You must carefully think out how you are going to make your cuts. this is the big divergence from the classical cnc. since the router base has to remain stable and there must be sufficient coherent pattern always visible. So you can't just go  back and for forth and go haphazardly around your work piece. in cnc applications the actual reference is the part of the material in contact with the table or bed, simply. the SO is the opposite. the reference is what the router base is sliding on. This means that all stock removal must not interfere with the stability of the base nor can the indexing tape pattern be degraded to the point the positional lock is lost.  This makes a great deal of what is done with cnc off limits for this machine. There are some work arounds and things will improve. However if you are thinking of comparing this to a gantry cnc, you will be sorely disappointed. As i have said, think of this as a router with computer template abilities. In that vain it is fantastic. Do not take my assessment of the restrictions as a negative. I love the machine. However it is a tightly focused tool . In that vain it is great. As a general cnc solution, not so much.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2018, 09:56 AM »
I have probably 40+ hours on my "SO" it is holding up wonderfully. This a unique tool. Unlike classic cnc you can work right from the tool. this is fantastic.
 
The big downside it the serious restriction in how the cutting goes. This can not be over estimated. You must carefully think out how you are going to make your cuts.

This means that all stock removal must not interfere with the stability of the base nor can the indexing tape pattern be degraded to the point the positional lock is lost. 

Hey tallgrass, thanks for the feedback. A couple more questions.

Does the dust extraction work well enough so that you don't have to stop periodically and clean off the indexing/locating tape?

Have you just drawn a straight line, say 4-5' long and tried to follow it?  If so, how accurate/straight was the cut?

Offline bluedog18

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2018, 09:48 PM »
I got mine Monday but other than unpacking haven't had time to use...been too busy moving snow.  I'm 65 now and moving half mile of snow between my house (double lot in town), in-laws (large corner lot), and business (in town, corner, three storefronts and parking lot), this is getting OLD.  I've spent every extra moment watching vids and deciding what to do first.
I’m in the same boat as you, clearing the snow and ice from my place plus my parents and their bakery here in PA. And work has been emotional draining this week. I’m hoping to start using my SO this Sunday. My 5yr old daughter and I have plans for Saturday.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2018, 04:04 AM »
Hey tallgrass, thanks for the feedback. A couple more questions.

Does the dust extraction work well enough so that you don't have to stop periodically and clean off the indexing/locating tape?

Have you just drawn a straight line, say 4-5' long and tried to follow it?  If so, how accurate/straight was the cut?




Ok, ill try to answer you.

As far as dust extraction goes and the tape. There are 2 possible answers to this. The dust extraction so far has been fairly good. however being that it is vacuum related and not forced air and vacuum that needs to be kept in mind, if you are going to stepping down for deeper repeated cuts. The other problem is that if you are cutting over the matrix tape, you may have problems. if enough of it is compromised you will loose your lock.  it is very important to think about the work flow, in terms as how  you cut out your pattern. you must try not to cut into the tapes that s used in your tape lock. So if in the process of your cutting you destroy enough take that is require, you loose. I know i keep repeating this but it is an important consideration before your cutting begins. So you do not have to place tape where you are cutting but in a constellation around what you are cutting that the camera can see through out the cutting process. This becomes clear after a little use. so you do not have to put the tape on the area of the cut. actually you should try to avoid this as much as possible.

As far as accuracy is concerned. a fair bit of that is in your hands. it is important to develop a smooth and steady technique. the closer you are to the line the better. So far i have found it to be quite accurate. i have run long strait cuts, "over 12" for the purposes of testing and it does a good job. though i plan of testing cuts from it and my other machines to see the differences. I suspect there will be some for of artifact that present itself as the resolution of the testing increases. I do a great deal of tight tolerance work so i am curious how it will compare. So in the range you are interested it has been very good. i admit that i am still always kind of smiling after a cut. As a mechanical engineer, i am just impressed on what it must be doing in real time to get this done. Again your technique has a bearing on the output.

Offline Z48LT1

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2018, 09:43 AM »
PS - no big mystery but I'm RMW over on the SO forum also. Pretty sure I've recognized a few FOG'ers there but is anyone using a dramatically different handle over there?

RMW

I'm OysterBait.

Cheers - Gary

Offline Tom Gensmer

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2018, 09:18 PM »
Received my SO today, Batch 2. Probably won't have time to turn it on for another week or two. Planned uses:

1. Producing one-of finished pieces
2. When repeated operations are required for serial production, I plan on using the SO to produce precision templates to guide my larger routers.

CT-26, CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, KA 65 Conturo, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline neilc

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2018, 09:20 PM »
Welcome to the party, Tom!  Assume you signed in to the Shaper community?  Lots of discussions underway there -

Offline Tom Gensmer

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  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2018, 09:44 PM »
Welcome to the party, Tom!  Assume you signed in to the Shaper community?  Lots of discussions underway there -

Yessir, I'm pretty sure I have an account, I've just been up to my eyeballs in work and haven't had time to get involved in another community quite yet. Hopefully in the next month or so I'll have time to spend some more time over there  [big grin]
CT-26, CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, KA 65 Conturo, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline Svar

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2018, 10:14 PM »
So you do not have to place tape where you are cutting but in a constellation around what you are cutting that the camera can see through out the cutting process. This becomes clear after a little use. so you do not have to put the tape on the area of the cut. actually you should try to avoid this as much as possible.
@tallgrass Will that be possible to have couple panels with tape on them that you would place around your cutting area and then reuse? Possibly program in an offset if the thickness of your material is different.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2018, 09:25 PM »
i have made templates that that i reuse. almost like classical templates, but tape. this allows you to reuse tape. though once you have scanned your work area you are locked in to that unique constellation. i could be wrong. however it is my understanding it is the constellation that it uses. changing it during the cutting processes i would assume cause problems.

Offline neilc

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Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2018, 10:47 PM »
Interesting project - building a wooden boat - showed up on the Shaper forum today - still a work in process, but shows the potential of the tool on large scale projects -

https://medium.com/@cwsullivan/boat-projects-savior-the-shaper-origin-202ca5b4cb95

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1897
Re: Goliath to slay Shaper Origin ?
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2018, 06:10 PM »
Tallgrass, it is possible to add to the scanned tape areas to increase area or to make tape areas that are cut through.  This can be done during the cutting process.  I actually used this function this function today as I was making rounds for a customer's signs from 1/8" acrylic.  I was making the rounds from cutoffs from another project.  The pieces were not rectangular but by pivoting the machine I managed to keep the reference tapes in the camera's field of vision.   I LOVE this machine.  I did my cutting on top of cardboard, set my depth to 3.2mm (plastics are actually manufactured metric) The cut left most of the protective covering intact while going all the way thru the plastic.  This is only the second time I have used the machine, first time I made 20mm holes and also explored the matrix function that allows precise placement of repetitive cutting.  Made a series of 20mm holes on 96mm centers in X and Y axis...sound familiar?