Author Topic: Hammer combo or two/three machines for saw/jointer/planer?  (Read 1276 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nemloc

  • Posts: 4
Upgrading a small household shop to a small freestanding workshop space of about 20'x30' open space.  I'm considering going with a Hammer C3 31 as a cost effective (HAH!) way to get the table saw, jointer, & planer upgrades I want.  My other option is to go with an A3 31 and their or a competitors tablesaw. 

Anyone else have gone through this decision process and can share their experience?  I think I'm interested in how did your workflow work out the way you expected or not, how did you deal with space management and machine mobility, any gotchas with dust collection?  I'm not price insensitive, but focusing on that variability last for now.  The rest of the tools are various Festool & Dewalt items that will get upgraded as needed.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 346
Re: Hammer combo or two/three machines for saw/jointer/planer?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 03:54 PM »
There is an Austrian YouTuber who has a C3 31 and he did a quite comprehensive review of it:



Also, in most of his vid's you can see it in use.

I don't have experience with the C3 myself, although I am just about to come into possession of an A3 31 and a N4400 (yay!). Dust collection for these machines with a Felder unit.
I currently use a TS55 to do the bulk of sawing (a lot of it by means of the CMS-TS55 in my VL MFT-extension).

[Mod: adjusted spacing video.]
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700  … | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline nemloc

  • Posts: 4
Re: Hammer combo or two/three machines for saw/jointer/planer?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 04:58 PM »
Yeah I've watched his review and a few others already and that's what led me to believe that it's a machine that may fit my requirements.  I was wondering what the real tradeoff for me will be.  Right now it seems that I would end up with slightly more space usage but less conversion time if I go with two machines instead of one.

Which Felder DC are you going with?  Are you buying these from Felder, secondary market, or finding some sort of US based dealers?  If I understood it correctly, if I want these machines, I need to order from the Felder group directly.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 346
Re: Hammer combo or two/three machines for saw/jointer/planer?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 06:32 PM »
The DC is an AF14. All equipment sourced new at Felder/Hammer's Dutch agent (I am based in the Netherlands). Built to specs at the factory (which takes around 10-12 weeks — ordered Feb 20, delivery May 12).
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700  … | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 179
Re: Hammer combo or two/three machines for saw/jointer/planer?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 11:12 PM »
Opinion.  I think going with the Hammer machines, or Felder, is good.  Either the full combo unit or the saw/shaper and jointer/planer separate combo units.  With the full combo you use the saw separately from everything else.  Its way to the side of the jointer/planer part.  So you could saw and then joint and then plane all without interfering with each other.  Maybe saw and shaping would interfere with each other maybe.  But the full combo isn't much different than having the separate saw/shaper and jointer/planer combo units.  You really don't switch between machines much.  You do everything with one machine, then go to the next machine.  Then to the next.  More or less.  I think if you invest the money to get the Hammer or Felder machines, you get high, high, high quality that works very well.  Maybe not a valid comparison, but if you compare this to a regular Delta, Powermatic, Jet cabinet saw and one of their jointers and one of their planers or maybe a DeWalt planer.  And a router table since almost nobody buys a stand alone shaper.  You end up with much higher quality with the Hammer or Felder machines.  Yes you will likely spend more money on the Hammer machines.  But I think its worth it to get the quality.  You won't constantly think about how to upgrade your machines.  Should I get the new DeWalt planer and put the Shelix Byrd head into it?  I think there are a couple threads on that topic right now.  And you won't think should I upgrade the Jet cabinet saw to a SawStop or to a Hammer sliding K table saw?  One of those topics going now too.  Just get the good stuff at the beginning and use it.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7603
Re: Hammer combo or two/three machines for saw/jointer/planer?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 05:25 AM »
I went through the thinking and decided that I prefer 2 or 3 separate machines. I've seen people work effectively with combo's but the closest I'm thinking of going is a saw/spindle .. and that's only to have the spindle there if I want to do something too big for the router table.

Yet to build my workshop and get the big gear .. so I could be talking poo [big grin] though at least I have the land now and just need to decide where to put it!


Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 820
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: Hammer combo or two/three machines for saw/jointer/planer?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 09:19 AM »
Upgrading a small household shop to a small freestanding workshop space of about 20'x30' open space.  I'm considering going with a Hammer C3 31 as a cost effective (HAH!) way to get the table saw, jointer, & planer upgrades I want.  My other option is to go with an A3 31 and their or a competitors tablesaw. 

Anyone else have gone through this decision process and can share their experience?  I think I'm interested in how did your workflow work out the way you expected or not, how did you deal with space management and machine mobility, any gotchas with dust collection?  I'm not price insensitive, but focusing on that variability last for now.  The rest of the tools are various Festool & Dewalt items that will get upgraded as needed.

In 2004 I upgraded to a combo Felder CF741SP. I sold it 3 years later as the full combo did not work well for me.  Workflow was impacted but not significantly. Mobility was not an issue even with a 2.8 meter sliding table.  Dust collection is excellent but a nuisance with a stationary system because the hose routing for different machine uses was awkward for my setup.  I think a mobile dust collection setup would make this issue go away.  The killer for me was adding Aigner fence plates to the shaper fence with increased the weight of the assembly by about 50 pounds.  The shaper fence assembly became so heavy, I pretty much avoided putting it on.  This was compounded by the 150 pound power feeder on a tilt bracket that was a chore to swing up with a long sliding table and jointer infeed table configuration.  Even adding the Big Lift spring assist didn't fully resolve this issue for me.  The J/P combo portion makes a lot of sense and is a configuration I still keep today.

All that said, it really depends on how you work as to the choice that is best for you.  If you have limited space, the combo unit makes a great choice that is more economical than purchasing separates.  I had space to go separates (at the time) so that is what I did.  As always, YMMV so choose wisely.  If at all possible, I recommend getting in touch with Felder, Minimax or whatever you are considering to find a combo owner nearby.  Either call or pay him/her a visit and determine if the combo is the best choice for you.
Steve

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 714
Re: Hammer combo or two/three machines for saw/jointer/planer?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 01:24 PM »
I personally think its better to go with separate machines when you can. Im in a small shop though and have been planning/saving to get the Hammer A3-31. I considered an all in one, but then I wouldnt have had the pleasure of purchasing a SawStop 3HP PCS! My space is limited and a Jointer/Planer combo machine is just the route I have to go. I have read nothing but great things about the A3 series and love the N4400 I already own so Im sure it'll be wise investment.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!