Author Topic: Hammer will not start  (Read 2898 times)

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Offline patriot

  • Posts: 133
    • Wood Working By Design
Hammer will not start
« on: May 12, 2017, 08:35 PM »
This machine is a single-phase 230V motor.  No surprise there, just wanted to be clear.

The rear safety 'switch' is pulled up with shield in place and the big red button on the left side of the machine has been tried both in and out.  (I am still not sure what this button is actually for.  May be a kill button.)



My connectors are all L6-30A with a 10GA extension cable.  Breakers are 30A.



I went so far as  to break open the machine plug to make sure that both hot leads are getting 120V and they both are.  I also double-checked that I connected the ground correctly in all connectors.

Recap:  I have tried starting the machine with the red button both in and out and rear safety lever up.  The motor is definitely getting the correct voltage, but it won't budge. 

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

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Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1047
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2017, 08:50 PM »
I thought there was some additional safety thing that had to deal with the cover for the blade.  I don't have your machine but heard this from reading.  I think it needs to be fully engaged or something to that effect.
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 68
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2017, 08:55 PM »
The hood that opens to change a blade has a safety cut out switch. It is the black knob that you slide down to open the blade compartment hood. It actually has 3 positions - with the middle position being the "on" or one that supplies power.

In other words - when closing the compartment if you pull the knob all the way up you have passed the on or power position. Lower it one click to the middle position.

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 133
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 09:28 PM »
@SouthRider

Hallelujah!!!!!  That did it.  If that info was in the manual then I need glasses. [eek]  I thought that was a two-position switch.   I took a peek at that switch and its lever/button has to fall in the 'hole' before the machine with run.  Got it now.

I cannot thank you enough for your help.  What a sweet sounding motor it is.

Pizza's on the way!  BYOB! [big grin]
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 09:55 PM by patriot »
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 133
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 09:30 PM »
@Wooden Skye

Yes, there is indeed an additional safety thing (switch), but I never knew it had three positions.  I always thought it had two like most switches.   [smile]

Live and learn.

Thanks for your help.
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 68
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 09:35 PM »
I only know because I've been there, done that, got the t shirt.........................

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 712
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 09:37 PM »
Similar thing happened to me when I brought home my N4400. The kill switch on the foot brake wasnt mounted properly and it was permanently depressed so the motor wouldnt start. Fixed the mounting of the switch and everything started up just fine.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 68
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 09:44 PM »
PS  - I don't remember if it's in the manual or not - but in order to get this large a motor on single phase power compromises had to be made. Felder advises that you hold the power switch in for 3 seconds when starting this unit as the motor needs to "ramp up" to full power.

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 133
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 09:47 PM »
I only know because I've been there, done that, got the t shirt.........................

LOL!
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline patriot

  • Posts: 133
    • Wood Working By Design
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 09:54 PM »
PS  - I don't remember if it's in the manual or not - but in order to get this large a motor on single phase power compromises had to be made. Felder advises that you hold the power switch in for 3 seconds when starting this unit as the motor needs to "ramp up" to full power.

Yes, that I do know that bit of info because it is printed on the front of the machine next to the ON-OFF button.



Thanks again for your help.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 11:19 PM by patriot »
'If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there' Lewis Carroll

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 772
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 10:46 PM »
Looks like pressing the ON button activates a starter winding to get the single phase motor up to speed.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 577
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 06:28 AM »
If it's 30A how big a motor can it be? MY Unisaw is 3HP and requires a 30A breaker and there are no special actions to take when firing it up. I just press the start button and bang it's up to speed in what seems like a fraction of a second.

If they are worried about you pressing the start button when the saw is running then the contactor should latch open to disengage the start winding once the start button is released. Pressing the stop button would enable the start winding again.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline SouthRider

  • Posts: 68
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 07:34 AM »
Don't know much about the technical aspects of the electrical setup. Felder rates the motors in kw, but it translates to a little over 4hp.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 712
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2017, 02:31 PM »
If it's 30A how big a motor can it be? MY Unisaw is 3HP and requires a 30A breaker and there are no special actions to take when firing it up. I just press the start button and bang it's up to speed in what seems like a fraction of a second.

If they are worried about you pressing the start button when the saw is running then the contactor should latch open to disengage the start winding once the start button is released. Pressing the stop button would enable the start winding again.
Interesting, my 3HP SawStop only requires a 20A circuit 220V.

And my N4400 suggests the same startup procedure of holding down the power button until the motor comes to full speed. It was my understanding that all Hammer products were like that.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 577
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 12:07 AM »
My mistake, it is a 20 not 30 for my saw, the 240V charger for the wife's
Chevy Volt is on the 30A breaker next to the saw. Forgot which was which.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1084
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2017, 07:29 PM »
I only know because I've been there, done that, got the t shirt.........................

+1... doh!!!  BTW, that big red button is a kill switch.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

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Offline wptski

  • Posts: 439
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 08:11 AM »
This machine is a single-phase 230V motor.  No surprise there, just wanted to be clear.

The rear safety 'switch' is pulled up with shield in place and the big red button on the left side of the machine has been tried both in and out.  (I am still not sure what this button is actually for.  May be a kill button.)

(Attachment Link)

My connectors are all L6-30A with a 10GA extension cable.  Breakers are 30A.

(Attachment Link)

I went so far as  to break open the machine plug to make sure that both hot leads are getting 120V and they both are.  I also double-checked that I connected the ground correctly in all connectors.

Recap:  I have tried starting the machine with the red button both in and out and rear safety lever up.  The motor is definitely getting the correct voltage, but it won't budge. 

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
A OT but I've never ever seen a black Fluke meter in a grey rubber boot!  I own lots of Fluke stuff, all dark grey meters in yellow boots or cases.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 772
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2017, 09:45 AM »
A OT but I've never ever seen a black Fluke meter in a grey rubber boot!  I own lots of Fluke stuff, all dark grey meters in yellow boots or cases.

Here is a grey one with a red boot but I've also never seen a black one with grey boot.

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 439
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2017, 10:53 AM »
Here is a grey one with a red boot but I've also never seen a black one with grey boot.
Ah!  Yes, the Fluke 28 II Ex Intrinsically Safe are like that.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 712
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2017, 11:53 AM »
This machine is a single-phase 230V motor.  No surprise there, just wanted to be clear.

The rear safety 'switch' is pulled up with shield in place and the big red button on the left side of the machine has been tried both in and out.  (I am still not sure what this button is actually for.  May be a kill button.)

(Attachment Link)

My connectors are all L6-30A with a 10GA extension cable.  Breakers are 30A.

(Attachment Link)

I went so far as  to break open the machine plug to make sure that both hot leads are getting 120V and they both are.  I also double-checked that I connected the ground correctly in all connectors.

Recap:  I have tried starting the machine with the red button both in and out and rear safety lever up.  The motor is definitely getting the correct voltage, but it won't budge. 

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
A OT but I've never ever seen a black Fluke meter in a grey rubber boot!  I own lots of Fluke stuff, all dark grey meters in yellow boots or cases.
Same here and me neither. But I have always liked the yellow boot trademark of Fluke, so its never really bothered me. Would be cool if they offered some options though.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 439
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2017, 12:04 PM »
Same here and me neither. But I have always liked the yellow boot trademark of Fluke, so its never really bothered me. Would be cool if they offered some options though.
Pink? [scared]
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 712
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2017, 12:35 PM »
Same here and me neither. But I have always liked the yellow boot trademark of Fluke, so its never really bothered me. Would be cool if they offered some options though.
Pink? [scared]
Hey man, if it gets some girls to get interested in electronics, Im all for it!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4589
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2017, 03:24 PM »
If it's 30A how big a motor can it be? MY Unisaw is 3HP and requires a 30A breaker and there are no special actions to take when firing it up. I just press the start button and bang it's up to speed in what seems like a fraction of a second.

If they are worried about you pressing the start button when the saw is running then the contactor should latch open to disengage the start winding once the start button is released. Pressing the stop button would enable the start winding again.

I have been using the Unisaws for 30 years and every one has been on a 220 20 amp circuit and it is stated in the manual(well in one manual the other 2 dont mention circuit) and directly on the Delta website as well., I dont know where you are getting 30 amp circuit is required, it's not for the 3hp.

Per Delta for the 3HP Unisaws "This circuit should not be less than #12 wire and should be protected with a 20 Amp breaker." A 30 amp circuit is WAY overkill and  I want my circuit popping way before my 3HP induction motor is pulling 30 amps!

I have tested the 3HP table saws quite a bit and ripping 3.5 thick White Oak we could never get the Unisaw to draw more than 17 or 18 amps(And that was really under EXTREME load.) and even less with a nice new thin blade. I understand wire sizing and breakers are really to protect the wiring system itself, but knowing the current draw for the 3HP saws  I don't see why anyone would want a 30 amp circuit as anything over a 20 amp draw definitely is showing there are some issues with the machine wiring or motor. The 3HP incution motors just dont draw that much current under normal use.

I have some 5HP saws, the manual stated they need to be hardwired, no extension cord, those are 30 amp circuits. I do have an extension on my 5HP bandsaw though and that is also on a 30 amp circuit.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 03:40 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 712
Re: Hammer will not start
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2017, 04:47 PM »
If it's 30A how big a motor can it be? MY Unisaw is 3HP and requires a 30A breaker and there are no special actions to take when firing it up. I just press the start button and bang it's up to speed in what seems like a fraction of a second.

If they are worried about you pressing the start button when the saw is running then the contactor should latch open to disengage the start winding once the start button is released. Pressing the stop button would enable the start winding again.

I have been using the Unisaws for 30 years and every one has been on a 220 20 amp circuit and it is stated in the manual(well in one manual the other 2 dont mention circuit) and directly on the Delta website as well., I dont know where you are getting 30 amp circuit is required, it's not for the 3hp.

Per Delta for the 3HP Unisaws "This circuit should not be less than #12 wire and should be protected with a 20 Amp breaker." A 30 amp circuit is WAY overkill and  I want my circuit popping way before my 3HP induction motor is pulling 30 amps!

I have tested the 3HP table saws quite a bit and ripping 3.5 thick White Oak we could never get the Unisaw to draw more than 17 or 18 amps(And that was really under EXTREME load.) and even less with a nice new thin blade. I understand wire sizing and breakers are really to protect the wiring system itself, but knowing the current draw for the 3HP saws  I don't see why anyone would want a 30 amp circuit as anything over a 20 amp draw definitely is showing there are some issues with the machine wiring or motor. The 3HP incution motors just dont draw that much current under normal use.

I have some 5HP saws, the manual stated they need to be hardwired, no extension cord, those are 30 amp circuits. I do have an extension on my 5HP bandsaw though and that is also on a 30 amp circuit.
If you had read through the thread before commenting, youd have seen than in Reply #14 he corrected his claim and admitted he made a mistake.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!